Samsung pulls out of Diamond League


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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby Pego » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:14 am

Conor Dary wrote:And have World Peace and all that!!!

Look, track had its day. It was hugely popular in Europe, and here of course, once, but now football (soccer) has taken the top athletes and the public's attention and almost all of the money. I mean 5 million is the price of sponsorship of a third division football side in Europe or the UK. So if Samsung won't even pay that....

Frankly I am still amazed track has any life at all. But it is still hanging in there, and not doing too bad here, especially at the collegiate and hs level. And as long as Phil Knight is around....

But the idea that the answer is some Super-Duper marketing plan that will bring back the good old days is fantasy land.


This is about as accurate an assessment as I have ever heard.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:24 am

eldanielfire wrote:
I think this is too negative. Track at the Olympics is the most watched sport. Some 2 Billion people at it's peak. It also has the biggest global star in Usain Bolt. Even football can't manage that. The World Championships more or less attracts the same global audience as the Champions League final. People are interested when they are given something that is promoted to them. I'm not saying the Diamond League can compete with the NBA, but it could raise it's profile a lot by seeing the things the NBA does which has increased it's popularity in recent years. A lot of that isn't a huge marketing budget, but just doing the things that reach out to people and keep them excited and connected. The Diamond League does nothing of the sort, it's website is not exciting, interesting or even any good for news. The TV deals it creates are just poor in terms of exposure. Advertising rarely uses the media in it's most useful modern form. If the internet, Twitter etc tells us anything it is that interactive and constantly changing net usage grows the sport, not the dull cooperate rubbish we have available to us.


Yes, the Olympics are Big! And so are reality shows, which is what the Olympics is turned into. It is 2 weeks of entertainment for the masses and that is it. A country may have its star but it sure won't turn their countrymen into track fans. Once the Olympics are over... Now what is on tv.

And Bolt is big, big. But he is only one guy. He is like a SuperNova. Obliterating everything in its path. A great talent, but I think in the end counterproductive. I mean, who really cares about Gay, anymore, other than readers of Track and Field News? A meet these days can be successful having just Bolt.

As for twitter, web sites, those are great for dedicated fans, but as for a reason why track is down....I don't think so.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby kuha » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:08 am

Conor Dary wrote:
Yes, the Olympics are Big! And so are reality shows, which is what the Olympics is turned into. It is 2 weeks of entertainment for the masses and that is it. A country may have its star but it sure won't turn their countrymen into track fans. Once the Olympics are over... Now what is on tv.

And Bolt is big, big. But he is only one guy. He is like a SuperNova. Obliterating everything in its path. A great talent, but I think in the end counterproductive. I mean, who really cares about Gay, anymore, other than readers of Track and Field News? A meet these days can be successful having just Bolt.

As for twitter, web sites, those are great for dedicated fans, but as for a reason why track is down....I don't think so.


Conor has it exactly right. The present day Olympics has just about nothing to do with the actual sport of track and field-- the sport that actually exists in the 3 years and 11 months between Olympics. And the gigantic fame of a Bolt is really good for Bolt but, again, actually does little for the rest of the sport.

Marketing cleverness is nearly irrelevant here. The REAL bottom line: If you care about the health of the sport, then GO watch meets. It's fine if they are free; but even better if you have to pay for a seat.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:37 pm

Pego wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:And have World Peace and all that!!!

Look, track had its day. It was hugely popular in Europe, and here of course, once, but now football (soccer) has taken the top athletes and the public's attention and almost all of the money. I mean 5 million is the price of sponsorship of a third division football side in Europe or the UK. So if Samsung won't even pay that....

Frankly I am still amazed track has any life at all. But it is still hanging in there, and not doing too bad here, especially at the collegiate and hs level. And as long as Phil Knight is around....

But the idea that the answer is some Super-Duper marketing plan that will bring back the good old days is fantasy land.


This is about as accurate an assessment as I have ever heard.


Thanks for the comment. Track, in the US, while perhaps not doing as well as in the past is not on life support yet. But Pie-in-the-sky thinking is like planning your economic well being on winning the lottery.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby aaronk » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:44 pm

Track dead in the USA??

Tell that to the rejuvenated Drake Relays, set to take its place as one of the BEST relay/invitationals in the country!!

Tell that to the ALWAYS sold out Penn Relays and Pre DL!!

Tell that to the vast interest Mary Cain's exploits carried.....in venues OUTSIDE the narrow world of T&FN!!

Tell that to Lolo Jones.....or SRR.....who are doing things with the media that place them as MEDIA stars....not just great track athletes!!

Nope, track seems to be doing pretty darn good here!!
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:49 pm

aaronk wrote:Track dead in the USA??

I guess reading isn't your specialty. Whoever said it was dead in the US?
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby norunner » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:18 pm

Conor Dary wrote:Look, track had its day. It was hugely popular in Europe, and here of course, once, but now football (soccer) has taken the top athletes and the public's attention and almost all of the money. I mean 5 million is the price of sponsorship of a third division football side in Europe or the UK. So if Samsung won't even pay that....
First you need to get your facts straight, inventing numbers to support your point isn't the way to do it. Not even all first division teams in the big european leagues get 5 mio euro a year from their main sponsors. Some examples from the german Bundesliga (first division): Eintracht Frankfurt, currently in sixth position in the league, gets 5.5 mio euros per year, the last in the standing, Greuther Fürth, gets 1.5 mio. No third division team gets anywhere close to seven figures, some don't even get six figures.
T&F is still popular in Europe, last year they sold over 55000 tickets for the ISTAF in Berlin and that isn't even part of the DL anymore. The popularity of soccer is part of the problem, but you gotta ask why soccer is so popular nowadays. 30 years ago Bayern Munich, one of the biggest teams in Europe, played in the olympic stadium in munich and on average had about 30000 spectators per game. I watched Kratochvilova run her WR there 30 years ago in the same stadium also in front of about 30000 people. Today Bayern Munich owns their own soccer only stadium while the olympic stadium in Munich is rotting away and hasn't been used for T&F for many years. It's the same with many of the biggest team in Europe, they have their own arenas, they have professional marketing teams and they have perfectly planned competitions.
What i am trying to say: Soccer has been developed into the success it is today over many years, T&F hasn't progressed at all.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby lionelp1 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:18 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
Ned Ryerson wrote:
I dont' disagree that there's a lot to learn from the NBA. I think NBA games are textbook examples of successful sports entertainment. But there's a lot that can't be replicated.


The idea that track, a sport of individuals, can compete with team sports is cuckoo land. How exciting would basketball be if it was just 2 guys doing it? I think LeBron vs. Kobe one-on-one would get old pretty fast.

PS. Yes, golf does well, but golf is a rich man's sport. Watch the ads. Fancy cars, investment banking, 4 hour...well you get the idea.

Not too many ads about how to clear your debts or joining the army, or drinking crap, watered down beer.


Of course it may be a bit tough to accept the facts on the ground , but apart from some TV audiences at World Champs and OGs, the interest in our sport is and will continue to be minor in all Continents; as has been said by Conor , in as many words, it's ludicrous to compare the 47 event Track and Field world , full of people with funny names from countries that many have no interest or even knowledge of, with the easy to follow world of team sports with local and regional pull on a weekly basis.Track and field is not dead and wont be ; its not that popular in this day and age and thats it, folks.

All the clever marketing in the world won't make more than a halfpenny worth of difference, especially these days.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:46 pm

norunner wrote:
T&F is still popular in Europe, last year they sold over 55000 tickets for the ISTAF in Berlin and that isn't even part of the DL anymore. The popularity of soccer is part of the problem, but you gotta ask why soccer is so popular nowadays. 30 years ago Bayern Munich, one of the biggest teams in Europe, played in the olympic stadium in munich and on average had about 30000 spectators per game. I watched Kratochvilova run her WR there 30 years ago in the same stadium also in front of about 30000 people. Today Bayern Munich owns their own soccer only stadium while the olympic stadium in Munich is rotting away and hasn't been used for T&F for many years. It's the same with many of the biggest team in Europe, they have their own arenas, they have professional marketing teams and they have perfectly planned competitions.
What i am trying to say: Soccer has been developed into the success it is today over many years, T&F hasn't progressed at all.


That is true I took it somewhat of thin air, and I know nothing about German Football. But the English league is a whole different thing.
Okay, here are some figures...

Top Ten: Shirt Sponsorship Deals:

1. Barcelona - £25m-a-year (Qatar Foundation)

2. Bayern Munich - £23.6m-a-year (Deutche Telekom)

3. Manchester United - £20m-a-year (Aon)

3. Liverpool - £20m-a-year (Standard Chartered)

3. Manchester City - £20m-a-year (Etihad Airways)

3. Sunderland - £20m-a-year (Invest in Africa)

7. Real Madrid - £16.8m-a-year (Bwin)

8. Chelsea - £13.8m-a-year (Samsung)

9. Tottenham Hotspur - £10m-a-year (Autonomy & Investec)

9. AC Milan - £10m-a-year (Emirates)

9. Newcastle United - £10m-a-year (Virgin Money)

True, none are in the third division, but Sunderland is headed towards to the second division for next season and still make 30 million dollars a year. 6 times Samsung's sponsorship.

That is some serious money and it is only the shirt sponsors.

Sure people go to meets, but where are the European athletes? (We will keep it to the men.) All playing football where the money is. 30 years ago? Footballers weren't making anywhere the money they make now.

And what does Bayern Munich having their own stadium have to do with it? They are a team sport and have oodles of games each year. What should the Gatesheads Harriers, for example, have been doing? Buy they own stadium?

And to say European football has progressed is like saying Warren Buffett has made some money. It has exploded over there in the last 30 years. And it is not a coincidence that track has gone down there. After all there really is a finite supply of top athletes.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby norunner » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:59 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
norunner wrote: And what does Bayern Munich having their own stadium have to do with it? They are a team sport and have oodles of games each year. What should the Gatesheads Harriers, for example, have been doing? Buy they own stadium?
It is very important because every time a soccer teams builds an arena it means a T&F arena gets abandoned. Do you remember the european championships in Munich in 2002? Munich will never again host T&F championships because the olympic stadium got abandoned after Bayern Munich moved into their own arena.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby batonless relay » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:46 am

Does the IAAF have a limitation on who can sponsor a track meet?

http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/st ... g-sponsors
FORT WORTH, Texas -- NASCAR plans to become more involved in race-sponsorship decisions by speedways in light of the continuing controversy surrounding the National Rifle Association's sponsorship of the Sprint Cup race Saturday at Texas Motor Speedway.

"The NRA's sponsorship of the event at Texas Motor Speedway fit within existing parameters that NASCAR affords tracks in securing partnerships," said NASCAR spokesman David Higdon. "However, this situation has made it clear that we need to take a closer look at our approval process moving forward, as current circumstances need to be factored in when making decisions."
______
Democratic Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut wrote to News Corp. chief Rupert Murdoch asking the Fox network not broadcast Saturday night's race because of the NRA sponsorship.

______

Sources confirmed Friday that two drivers were advised by their public relations directors not to do interviews in the TMS media center so they could avoid having the NRA logo behind them.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby wallaby » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:54 pm

As long as Track and Field continues to be run as it is - it will never become a major sport or draw the big sponsors.

The top athletes only compete against each other at the WCs and Olympics. Compare that to tennis, where Federer and Nadal go against each other in the same tournament at least 8 times a year. In F1, the top drivers have 20 races a season. In all sports the top athletes compete against the others regularly - except for Boxing and T&F.

I read somewhere that Coe and Ovett - one of the greatest rivalries in T&F history - competed against each other on only 7 occasions. Their 'rivalry' consisted primarily of each of them in turn running against the clock with a pacemaker. You could have watched it with a newspaper and just read the numbers. It was as exciting as bingo.

Remember when Bolt was Dq'd from the World Champs? Blake won the 100, and Bolt won the 200. A couple of weeks later, Blake ran his 19.26. The next week, both Blake and Bolt ran at the same meet. Wow! The new upstart up against the Old King! Great!! Except - Bolt ran the 200 and Blake ran the 100. How the F***** does that happen!?!?!?!?!

Now we know the reasons for this - all understandable. But also accept that it's a very unattractive model for a sport wanting to market itself as an entertainment package.

Sure, the Olympics and WCs are great - but no sponsor is seriously going to put up large amounts of money for any other series of events when they are primarily exhibitions and warm-ups for the top athletes. At the moment, there are 3 events every 4 years where we know we will see the best vs the best.

My suggestion: World Champs every year. And to qualify, you have to earn points from the DL, and other qualifiers (National Champs, perhaps). Top 24 only go. And you would have to compete at several events to earn enough points. No 'automatics' or one-win-and-you're-in. If that means we don't see the strugglers from Outer Wherever-stan - fine. He can go to the Olympics - that's what they're for.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby Ned Ryerson » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:43 pm

wallaby wrote:My suggestion: World Champs every year. And to qualify, you have to earn points from the DL, and other qualifiers (National Champs, perhaps). Top 24 only go. And you would have to compete at several events to earn enough points. No 'automatics' or one-win-and-you're-in. If that means we don't see the strugglers from Outer Wherever-stan - fine. He can go to the Olympics - that's what they're for.


What if that means we don't see Bolt because he was injured early int he season but is ready to roll come the champs?

Only top 24? So just two Europeans in the Men's 100m (going on last year's list)?

How about this: get rid of the World Championships and make the Diamond League the sole focus of the season. Kobe Bryant isn't sold to sponsors as an Olympic medalist; he's sold as a many times NBA Champion.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby kuha » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:59 pm

Ned Ryerson wrote:How about this: get rid of the World Championships and make the Diamond League the sole focus of the season.


I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I'd vote for that enthusiastically.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:06 pm

And the politics of getting into DL meets? One round only in almost all events? Clearly, no locals would be allowed in because the slots would be too 'dear'. The 'top 24 can easily make room for the defending champ and 23 others...
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby sprintdoc » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:21 pm

Ned your point of eliminating the Worlds and instead focusing on the Diamond League is one I have said for years would actually be direction sport needs to go with one caveat - a title meet every year including Olympic year that is a 3 day meet of the top 12-16 per event using the following concept:

The current DL meets along with the current World Challenge events would be combined as a full circuit with levels of points gained to qualify into the championship. ex- Zurich (20 pts for 1st, Berlin - 15 pts for 1st, Ostrava - 10 pts for 1st), Athletes must participate in at least 6 events to gain a spot in finals except in 10k and multi's.

Additionally world zonal meets could be held to allow additional qualifiers (winner only) for those who tried but couldn't get into enough of the series meets due to lack of name recognition. In years with meets such as Euros, African Champs, Asian Games these could be used and the US Champs could as well each year.

The main problem in the sport today is the lack of quality competitions to entice the general sportsfan (not die-hard track fans already following) to tune in. Plan the events to be shown on TV at the same time every week as much as possible. This contributes to why so many people watch certain sports, you build an audience that know every week at a certain time a certain sport is going to be on like NFL at 1 & 4 eastern, NBA on TNT on certain nights at exact same time, etc.

This is the same concept that should be done domestically in the US to give more post-collegiates competitions and exposure for the sport in the US. Its what gh speaks of in this month's editorial. Use existing meet structures to build a series of meets beginning in mid-April and going through US Championships. Have East Coast meets and West Coast meets. West Coast for example (splitting US at Ms River) could have pro section at the Johnson/JJK meet, Mt SAC, Drake/Stanford, Texas/Oregon Twilight, Oxy, perhaps create a meet at new UW track or Modesto or somewhere - Berkeley, Oregon State, etc then Pre (with perhaps a few additional events added to the day 1 as they have done recently, then Portland Track Classic and then its Nationals.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby sprintdoc » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:22 pm

continuation of above:

Use participation in the meets as a way to qualify for nationals although for that I would suggest some auto qualifiers into US Nats such as top 6 from year before who participate at least 2-3 times so that they show fitness. This way our "stars" aren't having to race too much early in the year but they do compete some to help grow sport audience in the US. Collegiates could qualify into US Nats via either performance at NCAA's or time standard and 3-4 post-collegiates and preps could be allowed in based on a descending order list of those not otherwise qualified.

With our current state of affairs we are making it far too difficult for post-collegiates to stay in the sport. Our elite level are fine but we need to build a bigger base so as to not only increase the pool of elites but to grow the sport nationwide.

Why does USATF give stipends to top athletes? This money would be better served by putting it towards prize money for the best athletes to show up and earn and create more revenue from the meets themselves. By creating new events the athletes could earn this money and at the same time TV revenue, sponsorship opportunities and ticket sales would be created.

Additionally the Olympic Trials and US nationals need to be moved around to grow the sport and sponsorships. Last time the Trials were held east of the Pacific Ocean states of Cali and Oregon was 1996 and that was in the Olympic Stadium as a lead up so the last stand alone such trials was New Orleans in 1992. While the weather was tough in NO the meet was well attended.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:25 pm

Very difficult to get all of the rules to actually work right. Example -- Bolt gets only 5 meets, as do three or four of the top athletes in different events. The meet might miss the biggest stars.

There are fundamental differences between team games, one-on-one games (e.g., tennis) and track and field.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby norunner » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:33 am

wallaby wrote:My suggestion: World Champs every year. And to qualify, you have to earn points from the DL, and other qualifiers (National Champs, perhaps). Top 24 only go. And you would have to compete at several events to earn enough points. No 'automatics' or one-win-and-you're-in. If that means we don't see the strugglers from Outer Wherever-stan - fine. He can go to the Olympics - that's what they're for.
So last year we would have had european champs, world champs and olympic games, all in one year. And how exactly is that supposed to work? Where would you have placed the WCs? ECs were at the beginning of july, OCs beginning of august. You also need some space for national champs, so where do you see space for wcs?
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby Sprints_and_XC » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:45 pm

I think we know that all of our suggestions will never happen, but we can dream. Here's mine. Its just a small improvement that won't bring in huge revenue, but I think its an improvement: The IAAF should standardize the jerseys that athletes wear at the DL meets and display the sponsor logo prominently on them. They should then market these jerseys through their website. I think some people would buy them, its a win win. They should also paint the sponsor logo prominently on the infield grass and digitally superimpose the logo on the track like Brazillian soccer does.
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:11 pm

This makes one of the things we dislike worse -- six runners in identical kit. Add to that the difficulty that people have in recognizing people of different races and it makes it seem ...
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby norunner » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:53 pm

How fitting: 3 weeks before the first DL meeting and no german channel/network has bought the DL rights. Looks like there will be NO DL broadcasts in Germany this year. The biggest european market for basically anything passing on the DL should make the search for a new sponsor much easier. :roll:
Makes me wonder how many other european countries are in a similar position?
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Re: Samsung pulls out of Diamond League

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:48 am

An interesting statistic that backs up what I said before.

    League Two clubs last season earned in excess of £700,000 from the Football League and Premiership television money.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19978472

Since there are 24 League Two teams, there is £16,800,000 or $25,000,000 sponsorship on the Fourth Division of English Football.

No wonder there is so little left for track, in terms of athletes, money or fans in Europe or the UK.
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