Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video


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Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby ExRun » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:24 pm

This is my favorite M. Cain video...she just blows by the leader on the final leg.
http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php ... o_id=49172

I hope Alberto Salazar has Mary C. run a few 800M races this Summer. She had just turned 16 when she ran this Girls 4x800 at the 2011 New Balance Nationals Outdoor meet. Her coach Mitchell thought she would break 2 minutes in HS. Any thoughts on what she may be able to run now? I think 2 flat to 2:01 range.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby Master Po » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:40 pm

Thanks for posting this -- I had never seen it before. Impressive running -- looked like she was running a different event -- kind of like an 800m runner had somehow gotten into a 4x1500 relay. :)

In addition to that relay split, she has a 2:03.34 also from last Spring, a few weeks before this relay, iirc. I would think she's capable of 2:01, in the right conditions, this spring/summer. Just guessing, but in this way -- the announcer on that video says she split the first 400 in 58. So, if that's about right, it would be 58.x for the first 400 and 65.x for the second 400, to give the posted 2:03.74 split. So, assuming that she's stronger and more fit now, it seems pretty reasonable to think she could go out in 58 and close in 63 (especially if she were running with or near someone). Maybe she can go even faster, but this scenario seems plausible for 2:01.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby aaronk » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:45 pm

Glad you asked! :P

Actually, I've been thinking a LOT in recent days about not only WHAT race she'll run.....but WHEN!!

Where has Mary Quite Contrary gone to???

As for the distance, I hope she covers ALL the bases.....within the 800 to 10000 meter field of choices!!
At least before she graduates from high school....meaning up through August 31st of 2014...unless she starts school or signs a pro contract before that!!

In an 800, I think she can break 2:00!!
In other words, break the outdoor HSR!!
THIS year!!

I also think she can run the following:
2:36 to 2:38 (1000)
4:02 to 4:06 (1500)
4:20 to 4:24 (mile)
8:38 to 8:44 (3000)
9:12 to 9:20 (2 miles---NOT 3200 meters!!)
15:00 to 15:20 (5000)
31:30 to 32:30 (10000)

My reasoning for the quick times....especially in the shorter distances (mile on down)...is how fast she ran the final 600 of her USATF win!!
She ran about 1:31.15 (32.73 ??, then 29.27 and 29.34)....letting up before the tape!!!

I would NOT underestimate what Mary Cain can do.....this year!!

But where the $@*%*!!$& is she???? :D
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:00 pm

ExRun wrote:This is my favorite M. Cain video...she just blows by the leader on the final leg.
http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php ... o_id=49172

I hope Alberto Salazar has Mary C. run a few 800M races this Summer. She had just turned 16 when she ran this Girls 4x800 at the 2011 New Balance Nationals Outdoor meet. Her coach Mitchell thought she would break 2 minutes in HS. Any thoughts on what she may be able to run now? I think 2 flat to 2:01 range.


I guess if she can run 2 flat she probably can run a tick or two under as well. Based on what she's done thus far this season, I'd say 2:01 is where she is about.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby DrJay » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:15 pm

Wow. Half of the all-time top ten HS girls 800 performers are from the 1970s. Kind of an orphan event?

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index. ... yyear=2008
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby doug5321 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:30 pm

not sure when cains next race is, but next weekend there is the arcadia meet which brings together top high schoolers throughout the country, i wonder if she will run that.


possibly the next mary cain is running the florida relays 800 this thursday, her name is daesha rogers and she ran 2:07 last year as a 7th grader, she was born on april 21st, 1999, she first broke 5 for the 1600 in the 5th grade, 3 years ago.

#12 on 2012 high school 800 list. http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index. ... yyear=2012
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby Master Po » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:31 am

DrJay wrote:Wow. Half of the all-time top ten HS girls 800 performers are from the 1970s. Kind of an orphan event?

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index. ... yyear=2008


For whatever reason, it's a relatively consistent pattern across the HS distance female all-time lists: these lists tend to include 4-5 performances from the last decade, and most of the remainder from the 70s-early 80s. Looking across these lists (800m-10k, not including steeple for this perusal), not much between mid-80s through 90s.
Last edited by Master Po on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby Master Po » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:37 am

aaronk wrote:
But where the $@*%*!!$& is she???? :D


I don't know -- maybe hiding out from these sorts of demands? :)

I think of it this way: She had a long, successful indoor season. Certainly longer and at a higher level than pretty much any other HS distance runner would have in this era. And, if it all goes well, she will have a long outdoor season, perhaps through USATF, World Youth Ch. in July (also a longer season than most HS runners would have). She competed indoors into March. I'm no expert, but I can't see any need for her to have been competing outdoors in March.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby aaronk » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:05 am

Master Po wrote:
aaronk wrote:
But where the $@*%*!!$& is she???? :D


I don't know -- maybe hiding out from these sorts of demands? :)

I think of it this way: She had a long, successful indoor season. Certainly longer and at a higher level than pretty much any other HS distance runner would have in this era. And, if it all goes well, she will have a long outdoor season, perhaps through USATF, World Youth Ch. in July (also a longer season than most HS runners would have). She competed indoors into March. I'm no expert, but I can't see any need for her to have been competing outdoors in March.


Three things:

1. That was a QUESTION, not a demand!! :)

2. With the depth of her domination over EVERY other HS runner from 800 on up (including, IMO, Sabrina Southerland!), she can't really be considered a "high school" runner anymore....even though she remains eligible to break HS records, and attends Bronxville HS. She's way too good!! She is now, for better or for worse, a NATIONAL class runner!!

3. You forgot to include the World Championships in Moscow!! I think she has a good to very good chance of making the WC team in the 800....and a very good to excellent chance of making the WC team in either the 1500 or the 5000!! The Simpson's and Uceny's of this world notwithstanding!!

As an aside, I remember an article....or perhaps an editorial....in one of the spring 1964 issues of T&FN (March? April? May? Not sure which one!)....speculating on whether Gerry Lindgren could make the Olympic team in either the 1500 (!!) or 5000. I believe this was AFTER his indoor 2 milers, and BEFORE his 13:44 at Compton!

So my speculation on Cain's making the WC team this year is NOT without precedent!!
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby Master Po » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:07 am

Probably no need to discuss this in any depth, but...

You are of course right to state that she is a national class runner, on some level. Certainly so. Here's what she also is: a not-yet-17 year old HS junior who just completed her first indoor season on the non-HS level. Seems worthwhile to acknowledge that, I think. One would not wish to run her into the ground at this early point in her so-called "post HS career," right?

As for not mentioning the WC, that was not an oversight, or at least not an inadvertent one, on my part. I suppose she might make that team -- all kinds of things could happen -- but I'm not going to be one to state that as either expectation or hope for this season. As you know, WC "A" for the 1500 is 4:05.5; "B" is 4:09.00. She doesn't have either of those as yet. Not hard to imagine her earning the "B" standard this Spring. For me, a bit harder to imagine her earning the "A" this Spring. Beyond that, it's even harder yet for me to imagine her earning the "A" (or near to it in some one of the scenarios that permits a "B" to go to the WC) and beating almost all of the top USA 1500m women. USA's distance women may not be the Kenyans, etc., but when I look at the 2012 list, that's a pretty formidable set of women to compete against. Cain has raced and beaten this year some of those in the 2nd 10 from the 2012 list, but she hasn't really gone up against the first 10, iirc, especially the top few in that list.

So, that's my reasoning for "letting her off the hook" of hyper-expectations. If she gets to that level this year, more power to her. But I'm not thinking about her season with that in mind. WYC seems fine to me as a goal.

Finally, Lindgren did some great things and I respect those accomplishments, but I just can't bring myself to regard him as a paradigm for the development of a young talent. Perhaps all of this is a failure of imagination on my part, along with the fact that I wasn't really around for the "golden age" of USA track and field. What Cain is doing right now looks great to me.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby kuha » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:51 am

Master Po wrote:Finally, Lindgren did some great things and I respect those accomplishments, but I just can't bring myself to regard him as a paradigm for the development of a young talent. Perhaps all of this is a failure of imagination on my part, along with the fact that I wasn't really around for the "golden age" of USA track and field. What Cain is doing right now looks great to me.


Yes on all counts.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby aaronk » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:41 am

"Without hopes, dreams, and wishes...life itself would be a barren field!"

Don't know if anyone's ever said that....but they SHOULD have!!

Best to YOU, Mary Cain!!
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:40 am

aaronk wrote:"Without hopes, dreams, and wishes...life itself would be a barren field!"

Don't know if anyone's ever said that....but they SHOULD have!!

Best to YOU, Mary Cain!!



"Without hopes, dreams, and wishes...life itself would be a barren field!.....just make sure you get it done before you get to age 17"

Let's hope no one has said this or thinks it.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby aaronk » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:07 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:"Without hopes, dreams, and wishes...life itself would be a barren field!"

Don't know if anyone's ever said that....but they SHOULD have!!

Best to YOU, Mary Cain!!



"Without hopes, dreams, and wishes...life itself would be a barren field!.....just make sure you get it done before you get to age 17"

Let's hope no one has said this or thinks it.


Here we go...again!!
I say I think Cain can run this time or that time, break this or that record....and BANG!!....here come people saying I'm expecting too much of a 16 year old girl! (32 days until she turns 17!!)

Let's look back.
2011--breaks 9th grade class record for 1500.
2012--breaks HSR for 1500, runs 62.5 last lap in Penn HS mile, setting Penn record.
2013--shatters HS indoor records at 1500, 1 mile, 3000, and 2 miles, the shorter distances TWICE!!

Tell me, if she (and Salazar) were trying to stretch out her development, why then did she not stick with her Bronxville team, run all HS races, and stay away from the Reid's and Dibaba's of this world??
You know, remain that innocent perky 16 year old KID far from the harsh glare of the national press??
She could have run times like 4:40 and 9:20 (1 mile and 3000), and won ALL of her HS races.....easily!!

But no, she (and Salazar) CHOOSES to enter races like Millrose and Boston (and even Seattle!), and run FAST!!
Cain even SAID, post-race, she thought she'd run 4:32 or 4:33 at the Armory. She ran EXACTLY what she said she would....4:32.78!!

No, I believe her AGE has NOTHING to do with this.
We only mention it because it's so RARE for a HS kid....girl or boy....to run at a NATIONAL level at such a young age!!

So, for better or for worse, by her and Salazar's own choice...or just by happenstance.....expectations (and wishes, hopes, and dreams!!) for Mary Cain go way beyond any consideration of age!!

She is a NATIONAL class runner, period.....whatever age she is!!
She (and her coach) put herself there....by CHOICE!!!
Within that realm, she gets (maybe irrational) certain expectations placed on her shoulders!!

That those shoulders are just 16 years old (soon to be 17!) makes no difference.....except in the excitement of seeing one so young accomplish so much!!
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:16 pm

aaronk wrote:
That those shoulders are just 16 years old (soon to be 17!) makes no difference.....


One can have some expectations of a 16 or 17 year old but stating it makes no difference is simply naive.

!!
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby KevinM » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:35 pm

aaronk wrote:Tell me, if she (and Salazar) were trying to stretch out her development, why then did she not stick with her Bronxville team, run all HS races, and stay away from the Reid's and Dibaba's of this world??


You seriously don't see the difference between running selected, targeted races each of which has a specific purpose, and going on the maximize-a-17-year-old's-talent-NOW campaign you seem to endorse?

I'm not the greatest admirer of what I see from the Salazar group, but if you think that long-term development isn't the primary goal, you're missing the point.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:54 pm

aaronk wrote:Tell me, if she (and Salazar) were trying to stretch out her development, why then did she not stick with her Bronxville team, run all HS races, and stay away from the Reid's and Dibaba's of this world?


It is not (primarily) about running fast times now, it is about learning to race. As good as Suzy Favor-Hamilton was [and others], she was racing high school and then college gals and could always rely on being able to out-do them on quality alone and did not have to learn to race against better athletes. Cain needs to learn how to race and how to judge races, how to deal with elbows, etc.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby aaronk » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:02 pm

26mi235 wrote:
aaronk wrote:Tell me, if she (and Salazar) were trying to stretch out her development, why then did she not stick with her Bronxville team, run all HS races, and stay away from the Reid's and Dibaba's of this world?


It is not (primarily) about running fast times now, it is about learning to race. As good as Suzy Favor-Hamilton was [and others], she was racing high school and then college gals and could always rely on being able to out-do them on quality alone and did not have to learn to race against better athletes. Cain needs to learn how to race and how to judge races, how to deal with elbows, etc.


Funny you mentioned Cain having to learn to "deal with elbows"

In the absence of any NEW race videos to watch of Cain, I've been watching the "old" ones......"old" being from mere WEEKS ago!! :)

Anyway, the one I've watched the most recently has been her USATF victory, as presented on our front page.

Watch as she shoots in front of Sara Vaughn at about the 1100 meter mark.
The announcer says: "Look at that elbow! Mary Cain, the high schooler, elbowing the veteran to take the lead!!"

Looks like MARY might be teaching THEM!!! :shock:
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:33 pm

Nope, the 'elbows' here refers to decidedly rough treatment that is sometimes meted out on the circuit and in championship races.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby aaronk » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:44 am

26mi235 wrote:Nope, the 'elbows' here refers to decidedly rough treatment that is sometimes meted out on the circuit and in championship races.


That's exactly what I was referring to also!!
That's what the announcer was saying.....that this high school kid was giving the ELBOW......CRACK!!!!!.....to a veteran!!!

Wait till she runs the "circuit" or goes to the WC's!!
Watch Mary's elbows!!

CRACK!!!! :P
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:57 am

Think Merga and learning to deal with opponents like that. Ask Solinsky what he thinks.
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Re: Mary Cain 800M 2:03:74 video

Postby Dutra5 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:50 am

aaronk wrote:Watch as she shoots in front of Sara Vaughn at about the 1100 meter mark.
The announcer says: "Look at that elbow! Mary Cain, the high schooler, elbowing the veteran to take the lead!!"

Looks like MARY might be teaching THEM!!! :shock:


I think Tim Hutchings got a little out of control there. Cain has good tactical sense however she basically cut off Vaughn. Her elbows come up naturally high and she didn't do anything but step in front of Vaughn.
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