Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!


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Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby aaronk » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:07 pm

On the UO Twitter site, it's been reported that Bridget Franek won the 2000 SC in an American Record time of 6:19.09!

I have no idea what the 2K SC records are, so have no way of verifying this.

Anyone know if this is correct??

Whatever the case, a GREAT time....especially for an early season race!!
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby aaronk » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:24 pm

Another BIG mark out of the OR Preview!!

Alexa Efraimson, a 10th grader out of Camas WA, just WON the first women's 1500 race at the OR Preview.....her time 4:19.54!!

Laura Roesler finished behind her in 4:22!!
They had a pacer for the first 1000!!
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby norunner » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:27 pm

aaronk wrote:On the UO Twitter site, it's been reported that Bridget Franek won the 2000 SC in an American Record time of 6:19.09!

I have no idea what the 2K SC records are, so have no way of verifying this.

Anyone know if this is correct??

Whatever the case, a GREAT time....especially for an early season race!!
Not really a GREAT time. To give you a comparison: Last year, 18 year old Maya Rehberg ran a german junior record of 6:22.06, so about 3 seconds slower than Franek. Rehberg has a 3000m H PB of over 10 minutes. If that time is an AR it's only because hardly anyone runs 2000m H.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby Jon » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:40 pm

norunner wrote:If that time is an AR it's only because hardly anyone runs 2000m H.
Exactly. It's just under 3:10 per km, which is 9:30 pace for the 3000mSC. When Jenny Simpson ran the 3000SC AR of 9:12.50, she would have most likely gone through 2000m in a much faster time (around 6:08-ish maybe). In a 2000mSC race, Simpson at her peak would have been capable of even quicker. And when Gulnara Galkina set her 8:58.81 WR for the 3000SC, she went through 2000m in 6:01.20 (faster than the official WR of 6:03.38).

I wouldn't get too carried away by this 6:19. The previous American record was 6:20, set by Carrie Messner-Vickers in 2007. She went on to run 9:43.06 later that summer.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:47 pm

Well, Given that the US 300 record is ~9:12, 6:08 is the average time and an enroute mark would almost certainly be superior to 6:19. There can be HS and Jr records for the 2000SC, but it hardly makes it on to the approved list. If they do not run a water jump on the first lap then the proportional number of water jumps will certainly not be more than in the 3000SC. The 9:12 is wroth about 5:40 or so. At the full distance that is like being almost a minute down, so it is not real AR.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby aaronk » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:48 pm

Jon wrote:
norunner wrote:If that time is an AR it's only because hardly anyone runs 2000m H.
Exactly. It's just under 3:10 per km, which is 9:30 pace for the 3000mSC. When Jenny Simpson ran the 3000SC AR of 9:12.50, she would have most likely gone through 2000m in a much faster time (around 6:08-ish maybe). In a 2000mSC race, Simpson at her peak would have been capable of even quicker. And when Gulnara Galkina set her 8:58.81 WR for the 3000SC, she went through 2000m in 6:01.20 (faster than the official WR of 6:03.38).

I wouldn't get too carried away by this 6:19. The previous American record was 6:20, set by Carrie Messner-Vickers in 2007. She went on to run 9:43.06 later that summer.


True, true!!
But would you give her a couple of bonus points for this being just March 16th??
(And that this was probably her first outdoor race this year!!) :)
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby unclezadok » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:50 pm

I think they were lucky Alexa was not in the steeple.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby bruce3404 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:11 pm

Much more impressed with Alexa's time than that of a bogus event that is rarely run. Nonetheless, I give Franek credit for a great start. But man, a 4:19 by a HS Soph makes her someone to watch. Sorry I wasn't in my usual seat at Hayward leading a "Come to Oregon" chant.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby aaronk » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:32 pm

bruce3404 wrote:Much more impressed with Alexa's time than that of a bogus event that is rarely run. Nonetheless, I give Franek credit for a great start. But man, a 4:19 by a HS Soph makes her someone to watch. Sorry I wasn't in my usual seat at Hayward leading a "Come to Oregon" chant.


Yes, quite good!
Here's a bit of less hyperbolic perspective on her time.

She now ranks as 16th fastest performer on the all-time outdoor HS 1500 list.

She is # 3 performer on the soph class list, behind Mary Cain's 4:11.01 and Chelsey Sveinsson's 4:18.13 from 2009.

Also, Cain had THREE other fast times during her soph outdoor season....4:14.74, 4:14.77, and 4:16.52.

But 3rd best-ever soph, and #16 on the A-T outdoor list ain't too bad for a race run in mid-March on a cold, wet, and windy day!!
(Not to mention beating Laura Roesler!!)
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby bruce3404 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:45 pm

Anyone interested in watching from the comfort of their home vs the cold and wind of Hayward can go to: http://pac-12.com/live/goducks.aspx?DB_OEM_ID=500
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby unclezadok » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:42 pm

aaronk wrote:
bruce3404 wrote:Much more impressed with Alexa's time than that of a bogus event that is rarely run. Nonetheless, I give Franek credit for a great start. But man, a 4:19 by a HS Soph makes her someone to watch. Sorry I wasn't in my usual seat at Hayward leading a "Come to Oregon" chant.


Yes, quite good!
Here's a bit of less hyperbolic perspective on her time.

She now ranks as 16th fastest performer on the all-time outdoor HS 1500 list.

She is # 3 performer on the soph class list, behind Mary Cain's 4:11.01 and Chelsey Sveinsson's 4:18.13 from 2009.

Also, Cain had THREE other fast times during her soph outdoor season....4:14.74, 4:14.77, and 4:16.52.

But 3rd best-ever soph, and #16 on the A-T outdoor list ain't too bad for a race run in mid-March on a cold, wet, and windy day!!
(Not to mention beating Laura Roesler!!)


Where was the hyperbole?
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby Master Po » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:05 pm

aaronk wrote:
Laura Roesler finished behind her in 4:22!


That is her PB (though of course she has run few times @ 1500). She has run an early season 1500 or two each year so far at UO. In 2011 she ran 4:42 at this meet; in 2012 she ran 4:41 at this meet and 4:30 a week later, at USC. So, today's 4:22 is a good early season fitness test for her.
Last edited by Master Po on Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby aaronk » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:07 pm

One more item of trivia from Alexa Efraimson's 4:19.84 as a soph.

It's a WA state HSR!!
She broke Brie Felnagles mark of 4:20.81 from 2005!!
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby ExRun » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:10 pm

bruce3404 wrote:Much more impressed with Alexa's time than that of a bogus event that is rarely run. Nonetheless, I give Franek credit for a great start. But man, a 4:19 by a HS Soph makes her someone to watch. Sorry I wasn't in my usual seat at Hayward leading a "Come to Oregon" chant.


She ran 4:23 about a year ago...so she was already somebody to watch. Her 800M time then was about a 2:11 so she doesn't have the flat out speed Mary Cain does.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby Master Po » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:29 pm

some stats on Efraimson:

http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/A ... ID=3650447

listing among other things her 800m PB (from last year as a HS frosh) as 2:08.92.

dob 20 February 1997, so just turned 16.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:29 pm

Jon wrote:
I wouldn't get too carried away by this 6:19.


:lol: :lol:

The OP absolutely NEVER does that. No worries there. :lol:
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby James Fields » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:49 am

bruce 3404 stated that the 2000m Steeplechase is "a bogus event" that is rarely run.

IAAF Rulebook currently (and for decades previously) says about Steeplechase that the "standard distances shall be 2000m and 3000m" The 2000m has also been recognized by USATF, and previously "The Athletics Congress."

Rarely run? The 2000m steeple has been conducted for decades throughout USA and the world for both male and female athletes. It still is.

The 2000m steeple is an official event in the World Youth Championships and the Youth Olympics. It was included in the Goodwill Games when that global competition was held.

Rules specify that 2000m steeple have 18 on-track hurdles and 5 water jumps.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby Fortius19 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:31 pm

USATF thought Franek's run was pretty good. She got athlete of the week.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby bruce3404 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:53 pm

James Fields wrote:bruce 3404 stated that the 2000m Steeplechase is "a bogus event" that is rarely run.

Rarely run? The 2000m steeple has been conducted for decades throughout USA and the world for both male and female athletes. It still is.

The 2000m steeple is an official event in the World Youth Championships and the Youth Olympics.


It's not an NCAA event, it's not an Olympic event, it's not on the Diamond League schedule. Perhaps that doesn't make it a bogus event, but I still think it's an event of little interest to most track fans.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:33 pm

It is almost always run as a youth event. How often is it run by seniors in the US at any sort of high level? When it is run it is often an early-season race. Given that Jennie B passed 2000m in about 6:08, this really should not be sold as an American Record.

I was a bit surprised at the award, although there were not a lot of competing marks.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby gh » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:22 pm

Yeah, just because the 2000St is in the rulebooks doesn't make it a standard event (see the track 30K, for example).

The 5 fastest U.S. women steeplers ever:

Simpson: has never run a 2000
Pierce: has never run a 2000
Coburn: ran one 2000 as a high schooler
Aguilera: ran one 2000 in '07
Shook: never ran one

To call it any kind of standard event at the elite level makes no sense.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby Master Po » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:52 pm

agree w everything above, and at the same time, as an alternative to watching a million college basketball games, I enjoy wandering through the arcana of all-time lists I otherwise would never have thought about...here's the USA's all-time top 10 for the 2k steeple (per all-athletics.com):

6:19.09 Bridget FRANEK Eugene/UO Preview 16.03.2013
6:20.66 Carrie MESSNER-VICKERS Nashville 05.05.2007
6:25.31 FRANEK Eugene/UO Preview 19.03.2011
6:25.98 Kelly MACDONALD-STRONG Seattle/UW Preview 16.03.2007
6:26.66 FRANEK Eugene/UO Preview 18.03.2012
6:26.72 Lisa AGUILERA Nashville 05.05.2007
6:29.2h Ann GAFFIGAN Eugene 28.07.2005
6:29.20 Madeleine MEYERS Lille/WYC 10.07.2011
6:29.56 Brianna NERUD Lille/WYC 10.07.2011
6:29.66 Lisa KARNOPP-NYE Eugene 26.07.2001
6:30.48 Dawn CLEARY-CROMER Nashville 05.05.2007
6:30.83 Lesley LEHANE Orono 31.07.1998

So...oft-contested...at early season outdoors, WYC, and the occasional all-comers meet. Now that the word is out on this distance, I expect some real racing at next Spring's UO Preview. :)
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby bruce3404 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:13 pm

Master Po wrote:
So...oft-contested...at early season outdoors, WYC, and the occasional all-comers meet. Now that the word is out on this distance, I expect some real racing at next Spring's UO Preview. :)


Great to see that Eugene is finally getting some recognition in the track and field world with our annual 2K Steeplechase. This could be the start of something really big! :lol:
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:02 pm

So, aside from Franek's post-collegiate annual tune up we have listing of a May race in 2005 and
four other occurrences in times fast enough that, if they did not slow down, would have gotten under the 10-minute mark, maybe none of them superior to a sub-10 3000SC (with the WR in the high-8s). So, five races in 15 years (more, but nothing that doe not get close to a 10-min steeple is not relevant to this issue) does not argue for it being anything more than an early season exercise, and Franek's race is the only one since 2007.

Master Po wrote:6:19.09 FRANEK Eugene/UO Preview 16.03.2013
6:25.31 FRANEK Eugene/UO Preview 19.03.2011
6:26.66 FRANEK Eugene/UO Preview 18.03.2012

6:20.66 Carrie MESSNER-VICKERS Nashville 05.05.2007
6:26.72 Lisa AGUILERA Nashville 05.05.2007
6:30.48 Dawn CLEARY-CROMER Nashville 05.05.2007

6:25.98 Kelly MACDONALD-STRONG Seattle/UW Preview 16.03.2007
6:29.2h Ann GAFFIGAN Eugene 28.07.2005
6:29.66 Lisa KARNOPP-NYE Eugene 26.07.2001
6:30.83 Lesley LEHANE Orono 31.07.1998


World Youth
6:29.20 Madeleine MEYERS Lille/WYC 10.07.2011
6:29.56 Brianna NERUD Lille/WYC 10.07.2011

So...oft-contested...at early season outdoors, WYC, and the occasional all-comers meet. Now that the word is out on this distance, I expect some real racing at next Spring's UO Preview. :)
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby aaronk » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:45 pm

Weak mark, esoteric record, stupid idea......

Franek running at a pace that would bring her in under 9:30 in a 3K SC.....
and doing so in MID-MARCH......in her first outdoor race of the year....
ain't nothing to be laughing about!!

Oh yes, and she ran it pretty much solo....as 2nd place was over a full minute behind her!!

Way to go, Bridget!!
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby Master Po » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:58 am

Indeed, aaronk. Although we have been having some fun with the idea of the 2k St as a significant AR, I don't think anyone was poking fun at Franek -- I know I wasn't. To be sure of that message, I almost posted some career stats for her when I posted the USA all-time list above. So, here they are now, give Franek her due...

She started with this event in 2007, and since 2008 has made steady and significant progress; now is one of the USA's better steeplers over the past 5 years, as her championship results show:

NCAA
2008 - 3rd; 2009 - 4th; 2010 - 1st.

USATF
2009 - 3rd; 2010 - 5th; 2011 - 2nd; 2012 - 2nd.

WC/OG
Berlin & Daegu -- didn't make final; London -- 14th.

Last year she made her first global final, and also went under 9:30 for the first time. Given that she's run the 2k St at UO Preview the last few years, there is something to compare -- her 6:19 compared with previous times at this meet suggests she may be able to be closer to 9:20 this year. I think she will be a strong candidate to make the WC team.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:30 am

Take the asterisk off the subject line and we have a different thread.

Nice run for Franek but in an event that is not contested all that often.
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby aaronk » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:18 am

Dutra5 wrote:Take the asterisk off the subject line and we have a different thread.

Nice run for Franek but in an event that is not contested all that often.


Definition of "asterisk" from Webster's Collegiate Dictionary: 11th Edition:

"the character * used in printing or writing as a reference mark, as an indication of the omission of letters or words, to denote a hypothetical or unattested linguistic form, or for various arbitrary meanings"

I don't see any "asterisk" in the title.

BTW, speaking of omission of letters, I've noticed a few names in T&FN that are missing letters recently. Here are some examples, as they appear in the Annual issue of T&FN:

Jan Kudil ka (men's PV)
E ref Apak (men's HT)
Ji ina Pta nikova (women's PV)
Zinaida Sendri t (letter missing both before and after the "t"--women's DT)
Tu ce ahuto lu (not certain how many letters are missing here--women's HT)
L na M ze (women's JT)
Eliska Klu inova (women's Hept.)

Printer errors? Only in my copy?
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Re: Franek: 6:19.09 AR 2K SC in Eugene!

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:09 pm

aaronk wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:Take the asterisk off the subject line and we have a different thread.

Nice run for Franek but in an event that is not contested all that often.


Definition of "asterisk" from Webster's Collegiate Dictionary: 11th Edition:

"the character * used in printing or writing as a reference mark, as an indication of the omission of letters or words, to denote a hypothetical or unattested linguistic form, or for various arbitrary meanings"

I don't see any "asterisk" in the title.



You're right. Make it exclamation point.
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