Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships


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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby lionelp1 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:49 am

NZ do not and never did dominate world Rugby. The most important trophy is the World Cup since 1987, and the record of South Africa is better than NZ and Australia are as good as NZ. The every year meets do not matter that much, imo, rather like winning lots of DL track meets and failing at the very summit, namely the WC. NZ have won twice , same as SA and Aussies. No domination.!!!

I worked with New Zealanders in my company for years and they would laugh to hear you talk about the annual meets in Rugby, only cared about the Big one, which on several occasions they were favourites for and screwed up.!
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:15 am

18.99s wrote:That was Germaine Mason. Christoff Bryan, the winner of the boy's high jump on Saturday (2.19m) is at the same high school that Mason attended, and is only 16 years old (17 next month) with another year left in school. He also jumped 2.20 last year at 15, which put him at #2 on the world youth list for 2012.


I tweaked about the very narrow focus on the 100 and 200 meters above; however, what I think we should (and will) see more of is the broadening of the application of the athletic talent into other events like this.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby eldanielfire » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:05 pm

lionelp1 wrote:NZ do not and never did dominate world Rugby. The most important trophy is the World Cup since 1987, and the record of South Africa is better than NZ and Australia are as good as NZ. The every year meets do not matter that much, imo, rather like winning lots of DL track meets and failing at the very summit, namely the WC. NZ have won twice , same as SA and Aussies. No domination.!!!


Complete rubbish! Rugby doesn't have meets or friendlies, they play tests. New Zealand have won more than 85% of their matches under their old coach, their domestic teams dominated Super Rugby, the All Blacks have dominated the Tri-Nations and they have the most wins in world cup matches during their history.

They also have, by some distance, the most wins before the world cup started. I notice you completely ignored my point that the world cup era has only been a short period of Rugby's history and used that as your entire basis for this debate which again shows your ignorance of Rugby's 100+ year history before the world cup.



I worked with New Zealanders in my company for years and they would laugh to hear you talk about the annual meets in Rugby, only cared about the Big one, which on several occasions they were favourites for and screwed up.!


Regardless if they career about the big one

I know they career for the big one, because they had so much bad luck in world cups or chokes. However they have rectified that now and have the joint most world cups, the best win record of all time and most international titles, tests won, longest unbeaten run etc.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby batonless relay » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:27 am

jamboy wrote:Video of Delano Williams amazing 44.8 anchor leg run at the Gibson Relays at the end of February.
I believe that when he goes to the Racers Track Club later this year(training with Bolt/Blake), his best events will be the 200/400m.

He has a very bright future.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Hqtb_q8wM

His best events will be the 2 and the 4? Why, because he split 44.8? What did Blake split his last year at Jago...wasn't it 45-something? What did Bolt RUN his last year at Champs?

Delano Williams would be wise to run the 100 and the 200m. He is NOT Jamaican so he doesn't have to worry about being left off the top-3 to WC/Olympics like a Nesta Carter, Michael Frater; Nickel Ashmeade, Lerone Clarke and the list goes on and on and on; he's a TCI and GBR representative which means that his profile will be considerably higher running the 100m and the 200m - especially if Gemili continues along his current trajectory and Dasaolu can stay healthy.

Also, where has Glen Mills or any Jamaican coach (yes, that would include Cameron) shown an interest in mens 400m running/training beyond CARIFTA aged athletes? Gonzales? Chambers?

It's comical that fans are encouraging this athlete who is 7 years younger than Usain Bolt to run the 400. Mind boggling, actually. Hopefully, someone he will listen to convinces him otherwise. I'm believing that person will be Mills.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby jamboy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:54 am

batonless relay wrote:
jamboy wrote:Video of Delano Williams amazing 44.8 anchor leg run at the Gibson Relays at the end of February.
I believe that when he goes to the Racers Track Club later this year(training with Bolt/Blake), his best events will be the 200/400m.

He has a very bright future.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Hqtb_q8wM

His best events will be the 2 and the 4? Why, because he split 44.8? What did Blake split his last year at Jago...wasn't it 45-something? What did Bolt RUN his last year at Champs?

Delano Williams would be wise to run the 100 and the 200m. He is NOT Jamaican so he doesn't have to worry about being left off the top-3 to WC/Olympics like a Nesta Carter, Michael Frater; Nickel Ashmeade, Lerone Clarke and the list goes on and on and on; he's a TCI and GBR representative which means that his profile will be considerably higher running the 100m and the 200m - especially if Gemili continues along his current trajectory and Dasaolu can stay healthy.

Also, where has Glen Mills or any Jamaican coach (yes, that would include Cameron) shown an interest in mens 400m running/training beyond CARIFTA aged athletes? Gonzales? Chambers?

It's comical that fans are encouraging this athlete who is 7 years younger than Usain Bolt to run the 400. Mind boggling, actually. Hopefully, someone he will listen to convinces him otherwise. I'm believing that person will be Mills.



Even though he is the two time 100m champion(and 200m) as well, to me, his 100m times are more average than say his 200m times. Also, he has always had poor starts.

He almost breaks Bolts 200m champs record(20.27 vs 20.25) and him splitting 44.8 over 400m at Gibson. He has some devastating anchor legs the past 2-3 years at local track meets, Gibson, Champs and Penn Relays. I have no doubt in my mind that if he was entered in the 400m at Champs, he would have won.

In case you didn't know, Glen Mills is now in charge of the 400m program at Racers. Before Gonzalez left Racers, his coach at Racers was Bert Cameron who previously trained all the Racers 400m runners.


Also, the 200/400m on the international circuit are much less competitve than the 100m and thus, his chances of making the finals of those events are much greater than say the 100m.

Neither Bolt, Blake, Asafa, Gatlin, Tyson, etc aren't going anywhere soon when it comes to the 100m.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby EZSum » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:32 am

Neither Bolt, Blake, Asafa, Gatlin, Tyson, etc aren't going anywhere soon when it comes to the 100m.


The last three of those are on borrowed time already and are unlikely to be around come the next Olympics.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby batonless relay » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:32 am

"jamboy"...

100m times are average? 10.28 is NOT average and certainly not at age 19. Plus...He's in High School! And, if you say he's a poor starter, then he can obviously learn to be a better one.

Though the 400m may be less competitive than the 100, it would be debatable that the 200m is less competitive than the 100. Moreover, if there was one event that Williams was more likely to make the finals in, right now, it would be the 200m; certainly not the 400m - and just remember: 20.37 was the LAST qualifier. Basically, Williams has a way to go to make the finals in the 200m. But, there is absolutely no evidence that he can run the rounds necessary to make a final 400m - even if he looks like he has the speed. Plus, nearly every 200m WJC in recent history went on to become a top 200 guy.

All that aside, it seems as if you're not learned in the economics of this sport. The top 100m guys make considerably more than CHAMPIONS in other events. Powell, Gay and Gatlin are 30+. Do you really think that in Rio when Williams is 22 that they will still be a factor? All of them? And, which one is switching allegiance to GBR or TCI to remove Williams from a guaranteed selection? Because it is possible that either of those 3 names might not be able to make their own teams even if they are still sub-9.90. You're viewing the world as if it must be static for williams while dynamic for everyone else so that it fits your thesis. In short: a 10.28.20.27 guy is a 100m sprinter (unless he's getting injured and is forced to move up. See, Johnson, M or Watts, Q).

For those who have proclaimed Williams performance the best by a school boy, they really need to investigate Henry Thomas (Hawthorne High School, CA, USA). They will learn that Williams is not alone.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby Tuariki » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:24 am

lionelp1 wrote:NZ do not and never did dominate world Rugby. The most important trophy is the World Cup since 1987, and the record of South Africa is better than NZ and Australia are as good as NZ. T


I think the stats below speak to themselves. Whether lionelp1 wants to admit it or not there is no other international sports team that has dominated a major sport to the extent the All Blacks of New Zealand have done with rugby.

Records of Internationals for the top 6 rugby nations in the world

- - -- - - - - NZL - SAF - AUS -- FRA -- ENG -- WAL
played - - - 513 - 419 -- 531 -- 696 -- 673 --- 656
won - -- - - 386 - 262 -- 281 -- 388 -- 359 --- 337
lost - - - - - 107 - 136 -- 234 -- 276 -- 264 --- 291
tie - - - - - - 20 - - 21 -- 16 - -- 32 - -- 50 - -- 28
%won ----- 75.2 - 62.5 -- 52.9 - 55.7 - 53.3 - 51.4
Av Pt ----- 26.1 - 22.5 - 21.0 - 18.4 -- 12.6 - 14.9
Av Dif -----13.4 - 7.1 -- 4.6 --- 3.9 --- 3.9 -- 1.8

NZL v AUS
Played 146 – NZL win 99 – AUS win 46 – draw 6
NZ winning %age 69

NZL v SAF
Played 85 – NZL win 48 – SAF win 34 – draw 3
NZ winning %age 55

NZL v FRA
Played 51 – NZL win 38 – FRA win 12 – draw 1
NZ wining %age 76

NZL v ENG
Played 35 – NZL win 27 – ENG win 7 – draw 1
NZ winning %age 77

NZL v WAL
Played 29 – NZL win 26 – WAL win 3 – draw 0
NZ winning%age 90

New Zealand have never lost to any other individual country

World Cup records
------Play-Won-Lost-tie--%win-titles
SAF---29--25----4----0---86.2---2
NZL---43--37----6----0---86.0---2
AUS---41--33----8----0---80.5---2
FRA---43--30---12----1---70.9---0
ENG---40--29---11---0---72.5---1
WAL--32--18---14----0---56.2---0
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby EZSum » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:47 pm

I think Williams is similar to Xavier Carter in that the deuce is his ideal event while being solid in all of the sprints. Focusing more on 100m would be a mistake. Sub 20s are his ticket to medals and money.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby batonless relay » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:27 pm

EZSum wrote:I think Williams is similar to Xavier Carter in that the deuce is his ideal event while being solid in all of the sprints. Focusing more on 100m would be a mistake. Sub 20s are his ticket to medals and money.

Now, that is a better comparison, imo. However, Carter's limitations at 100m were more technical...they could have been corrected and he could have run the 100. Williams is good technically and the mysteries of acceleration can be learned. But to suggest that Williams is even CLOSE to a medal at 200m in the next 5 years seems a bit...uhm...optimistic, no?

Who are these athletes that you think Williams will beat at 200m for this ticket to money (and medals, no less) to be so plentiful? Bolt? Blake? Weir? Ashmeade? Young? Gay? Gatlin? Spearmon? DIx? R. Bailey? Lemaitre? Martina? Edward? Even the loud-mouthed Olympic Youth Champion, Odean Skeen, said that had he been in the race he would have won. And, that precludes the possibility of Jamaica - or any other country - finding a replacement for any of the athletes named above.

The point is that there are no quick roads to the medals in the 100 or the 200m - or the 400 for that matter; an athlete just has to work his hardest, take his licks and hope he improves to be a world beater. At 400m...his PB's are not the equal of LaShawn Merritt and James and Santos are very young and very tough. He needs to follow the path Blake took: train hard, learn from the fastest in practice and in a few years he might get to show his ability.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby EZSum » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:16 pm

To this date 19.80 has always been enough to take a medal at the major championships, although that will no doubt soon change. Tyson Gay couldn't get an Olympic medal last year with a 9.80 in the shorter sprint. By contrast Warren Weir took a 200m bronze in 19.85, which would only have claimed the same medal in Seoul, a quarter of a century ago. Clearly, the deuce is a much softer event to make your mark in. Whether Williams will be able to do so remains to be seen, but it's not a great leap of the imagination to think that he could get down at least to the level of Weir or Young now that he's at Racers, and that should put him in the mix.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby gh » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:30 pm

Am i missing something in this rush to anoint Williams the next great 100 man? Looks to me like he has the chops to be a great in the 200, but I just can't get too excited in the century about a 19-year-old with a PR of 10.28 who has broken 10.50 only 5 times in his career. Not saying he can't be a great, but look at the all-time list of high schoolers who ran 10.28s (many of those at 18) and see how many panned out.

Now 20.27, on the other hand.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby Master Po » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:56 am

gh wrote:Am i missing something in this rush to anoint Williams the next great 100 man? Looks to me like he has the chops to be a great in the 200, but I just can't get too excited in the century about a 19-year-old with a PR of 10.28 who has broken 10.50 only 5 times in his career. Not saying he can't be a great, but look at the all-time list of high schoolers who ran 10.28s (many of those at 18) and see how many panned out.

Now 20.27, on the other hand.


For Williams, at age 19, and in this discussion of his possible international prospects, an even better data set that supports what gh is suggesting is WJ all-time. A quick glance at the IAAF list shows 20.27 would be 13th. The 100m list includes 32 names, to 10.14, so not sure where 10.28 would be, but it's for sure considerably lower than where his 20.27 sits, relative to his (world junior all-time) peers.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby batonless relay » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:38 am

Doc Patton has run 9.89 twice and was primarily thought of as a 200m guy (20.03) before he turned 30. Is he a 100 guy? Ryan Bailey, age 19, 10.28 (1.4). Is he a 100 guy? Marvin Bracy ran 10.25 (1.2); Williams ran 10.28 (-0.7). Which one is "the 100 guy"? (FWIW, Bracy and Williams were born in the same month in the same year)

Yes, Williams' 20.27 (0.9) -age 19- stands out but he ran 20.48 (-0.4) -age 18- to win WJC. That's barely an improvement compared to his 10.34 (1.8) he ran last year. And BOTH for a sub-20y/o are incredible. If there is an area he is improving "fastest" (and yes, there really isn't a large sample to say definitively) than it would be the 100.

I'm not saying that he's going to be a top or even the top 100 man; I just don't see any reason to move him up to the 400m right now when his progression compared to top sprinters of the past is either right there, or near there.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:41 am

Sorry, that improvement in the 200 is better than in the 100. Remember, that 100 mark is soft by comparison and much easier to improve. His 100/200 ratio really did not change, and that means that he was able to keep the 200 at the top. Besides, the 400 leg, better than anything Bolt has run, I think, implies that he has long-sprint strength.
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby batonless relay » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:15 am

26mi235 wrote:Sorry, that improvement in the 200 is better than in the 100. Remember, that 100 mark is soft by comparison and much easier to improve. His 100/200 ratio really did not change, and that means that he was able to keep the 200 at the top. Besides, the 400 leg, better than anything Bolt has run, I think, implies that he has long-sprint strength.

he split 45.8 on the relay leg (though he has reportedly split 44.8 earlier in the year. Remember last year when Bolt supposedly split 44? Me, too. I'll take that 44 split with a grain of salt); that's about normal for a 10.2 sprinter; it doesn't say QUARTERMILER automatically.

nothing about the 100m is soft and easier to improve from what I know. Also, how is the 200m improvement better when the 200m is twice the distance? Wouldn't the 10.34 (1.8) "convert" to roughly "10.40" for comparison sake; and wouldn't the 10.28 (-0.7) "convert", roughly to "10.26"? That's a .14 improvement. His "improvement" in the 200m is about .16. If the distance is twice as long shouldn't the improvement be twice as much?

He could be a great 400m runner, but I just don't think you can convert split times to 400m ability on the flat from the blocks and say that he will be a better 4/2 when he's already proven 1/2 ability from the blocks. Some of the same people who are saying that Williams should be a 400m runner were saying that Nickel Ashmeade should also move up to the 400m. Well, Nickel Ashmeade is now sub-10/sub-20. And, he was 10.37/20.40 at age 19. In 2007, WYC, Ramone McKenzie ran 20.67 to beat Guliyev and Ashmeade. Last year he ran 10.10/20.54 (he was also being talked about as a 400m runner).
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Re: Jamaica High School Track and Field Championships

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:18 am

45.8 is very different than 44.8; that changes things substantially and keeps the performance curve (what we know about it) with more potential at the short end.
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