Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs


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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby eldanielfire » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:41 pm

br wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:1. I think dope cheats have to pay back prize money. However I believe World Championships and Olympic games don't pay out prize money. Of course the increased attention and sponsorship will be greater than any single payout and I don't know if sponsorship deals write in clauses for things like that.


World Championships have prize money.

http://www.iaaf.org/news/news/tdk-and-t ... 0000-world

Individual Events

Winner: US$ 60,000; Silver Medallist: US$ 30,000; Bronze medallist: US$ 20,000; fourth place: US$ 15,000; fifth place: US$ 10,000; sixth place: US$ 6,000; seventh place: US$ 5,000; eighth place: US$ 4,000

Relays

Winners: US$ 80,000; Silver Medallists: US$ 40,000; Bronze Medallists: US$ 20,000; fourth place: US$ 16,000; fifth place: US$ 12,000; sixth place: US$ 8,000; seventh place: US$ 6,000; eighth place: US$ 4,000


Ah cheers for that, I didn't know, it's just the Olympics that don't have a winner. I would guess that it is still the attention and exposure to winners and medalists that earn them the big case from sponsors.
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Re: Has Belarus Cooking School admitted giult?

Postby Tuariki » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:09 pm

Daisy wrote:
pakillo wrote:
Tuariki wrote:
pakillo wrote:Save your talks on Lukashenko for some other place, really.

The historical record of your postings on this forum make it quite clear you are a great supporter and defender of Ostapchuk and all the other druggies from Belarus.

No, but the way you are obsessed with Ostapchuk makes me wanna poop.

Given she is stealing the limelight from a NZ'er, I'm not surprised he would follow her story.

Thank you Daisy. The only pooping that we have in this story is that left behind by Ostapchuk.

Val is the most dominant woman shot putter in history. This is even more apparent now that we have it as official that Ostapchuk has been a drug cheat from at least 2005 until the London Olympics. Because of the probable PED assistance of all the top shot putters "pre-Val" she, and all of today's clean shot putters, have been denied the right to be listed among the top shot putters in history.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:48 am

The Headlines have this short piece from SI:

Track investigating 17 blood passport violations


The Times of India has a much longer piece:

Speaking at the Tackling Doping in Sport conference in London, Capdevielle said 19 athletes have already been suspended by the IAAF and 17 cases "are currently under proceedings."

"That's a significant number in quite a short period," he said in a separate interview with The Associated Press. "There could be more to come."
...
He declined to give details but said the athletes are from endurance events.

Capdevielle said sanctions for the 17 could be announced at any time, depending on the length of the hearings and any appeals.

"It's more complicated than a standard urine positive so it takes longer to complete the process," he said.

In addition, the IAAF is investigating two cases of steroid use uncovered in the blood profiles, Capdevielle said.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/more-sports/athletics/Seventeen-athletes-face-sanctions-in-IAAF-doping-cases/articleshow/18955735.cms
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:48 pm

The majority of the positive tests are going to be a bunch of mid-level Kenyan marathoners that most people have never heard of.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:56 pm

JumboElliott wrote:The majority of the positive tests are going to be a bunch of mid-level Kenyan marathoners that most people have never heard of.



Mid-level Kenyan marathoners; those between 2:07 and 2:09? :lol: :?
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby eldanielfire » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:03 pm

26mi235 wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:The majority of the positive tests are going to be a bunch of mid-level Kenyan marathoners that most people have never heard of.



Mid-level Kenyan marathoners; those between 2:07 and 2:09? :lol: :?


:lol:

In more news, the IAAF are setting up a testing base in Kenya.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/21771213

I'm so hot on the info on Kenya and doping, a lot has suddenly been focusing on them in the past few months, have they historically had many doping issues or is this all coming out now?
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:03 pm

They used to not be able to test them in country for logistical reasons. You can guess why they've made it a priority to increase testing there.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Gabriella » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:46 am

EME News reports 3 positive tests from the Russian Indoor Championships: Mens 400m winner Kruglyakov; womens SP silver medalist Solovyova & mens LJ silver medalist Karavayev.
Supposedly due to 'over the counter supplements'.

The amount of positives coming out of Russia at the moment is getting ridiculous.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Jon » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:06 am

And two athletes from the Russian JUNIOR Indoor Champs have tested positive - Marina Buchelnikova (the world youth bronze medallist in the long jump) and 800m runner Valeria Kharitonova.

Gabriella wrote:The amount of positives coming out of Russia at the moment is getting ridiculous.
There were NINE different announcements in just one day on the RUSADA website :shock:
http://www.rusada.ru/en/press/news
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Ned Ryerson » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:04 am

JumboElliott wrote:They used to not be able to test them in country for logistical reasons. You can guess why they've made it a priority to increase testing there.


Highly misleading statement. Out of competition testing as been in that part of the world for decades. There hasn't been a lab there certified to conduct the testing, meaning samples had to be flown of the country for analysis, but collection has always happened where the athletes are living/training.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:12 am

My impression is that because of the difficulty of such testing that it was not done at nearly the frequency that it might otherwise be done. If so, I am not sure that the statement is 'highly' misleading.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby eldanielfire » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:25 am

Gabriella wrote:EME News reports 3 positive tests from the Russian Indoor Championships: Mens 400m winner Kruglyakov; womens SP silver medalist Solovyova & mens LJ silver medalist Karavayev.
Supposedly due to 'over the counter supplements'.

The amount of positives coming out of Russia at the moment is getting ridiculous.


It is. I'm wondering with the shear variety of failed druggies here, is the Russian fed poorly educating their athletes? Or coaches are doing the dirty without consent? Sure Russia has more than their fair share of intentional cheats but they can't all be doing the exact same thing but over the counter stuff after some of the roids that have been discovered?
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby gh » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:15 am

Ned Ryerson wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:They used to not be able to test them in country for logistical reasons. You can guess why they've made it a priority to increase testing there.


Highly misleading statement. Out of competition testing as been in that part of the world for decades. There hasn't been a lab there certified to conduct the testing, meaning samples had to be flown of the country for analysis, but collection has always happened where the athletes are living/training.


Partially true, but at least in the early days of out-of-competition testing (think the IAAF's "flying squad"), pre-WADA and the other ADAs, and in far tighter political times, the ability of a foreign tester to show up on Soviet soil truly "unannounced" was of course a joke.

Any place where a tester has to go through a visa process raises the chances of not being a surprise element.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby JumboElliott » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:06 am

I'm talking about blood testing too. Urine testing only goes so far.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Ned Ryerson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:40 am

26mi235 wrote:My impression is that because of the difficulty of such testing that it was not done at nearly the frequency that it might otherwise be done. If so, I am not sure that the statement is 'highly' misleading.


I don't think that's founded (you can look at the testing statistics for out of competition tests for yourself and judge).
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Ned Ryerson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:42 am

gh wrote:
Ned Ryerson wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:They used to not be able to test them in country for logistical reasons. You can guess why they've made it a priority to increase testing there.


Highly misleading statement. Out of competition testing as been in that part of the world for decades. There hasn't been a lab there certified to conduct the testing, meaning samples had to be flown of the country for analysis, but collection has always happened where the athletes are living/training.


Partially true, but at least in the early days of out-of-competition testing (think the IAAF's "flying squad"), pre-WADA and the other ADAs, and in far tighter political times, the ability of a foreign tester to show up on Soviet soil truly "unannounced" was of course a joke.

Any place where a tester has to go through a visa process raises the chances of not being a surprise element.


Which is why in that brief period in which out of competition testing and the Iron Curtain coexisted, you would figure on the IAAF employing Yugoslavian testers.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Ned Ryerson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:45 am

JumboElliott wrote:I'm talking about blood testing too. Urine testing only goes so far.


Yes, but it's not as if blood tests are standard or even common for out of competition testing, which is why they're making an effort to collect blood samples when they can, such as from everybody at the major championships.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:44 am

Ned Ryerson wrote:
26mi235 wrote:My impression is that because of the difficulty of such testing that it was not done at nearly the frequency that it might otherwise be done. If so, I am not sure that the statement is 'highly' misleading.


I don't think that's founded (you can look at the testing statistics for out of competition tests for yourself and judge).


This does not seem to fit with the efforts to establish something 'locally' and with a whole bunch of comments to the contrary - they must be right, they are rife on LetsRun.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Blues » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:11 am

Ned Ryerson wrote:
26mi235 wrote:My impression is that because of the difficulty of such testing that it was not done at nearly the frequency that it might otherwise be done. If so, I am not sure that the statement is 'highly' misleading.


I don't think that's founded (you can look at the testing statistics for out of competition tests for yourself and judge).


I didn't necessarily think the original statement was highly misleading...

Are there statistics that show the number of successfully tested samples that were actually collected in Kenya? The statistics on random tests I've seen don't say where the sample was collected, only that the athlete was tested. If I'm not mistaken, an athlete can be anywhere and be subjected to a random test, so it's entirely possible that a number of Kenyan athletes who have records of being tested out-of-competition could have been tested in areas they'd traveled to.

And if random testing occurred in another nation prior to, or shortly after, a foreign competition, the chances of an athlete having a PED in his or her system at the time would be extremely low, despite the fact that the test qualified as a random test for statistical purposes. As is often reported, in Kenya, the remoteness of many of the training venues, combined with the fact that it was frequently impossible to get samples to an accredited lab for testing within the mandatory 36 hours, made the testing of samples collected in Kenya extremely difficult to accomplish. Even if samples had been collected in Kenya as frequently as in any other nation, many couldn't be successfully tested within the required amount of time...
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Ned Ryerson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:25 am

Blues wrote:
I didn't necessarily think the original statement was highly misleading...

Are there statistics that show the number of successfully tested samples that were actually collected in Kenya? The statistics on random tests I've seen don't say where the sample was collected, only that the athlete was tested. If I'm not mistaken, an athlete can be anywhere and be subjected to a random test, so it's entirely possible that a number of Kenyan athletes who have records of being tested out-of-competition could have been tested in areas they'd traveled to.

And if random testing occurred in another nation prior to, or shortly after, a foreign competition, the chances of an athlete having a PED in his or her system at the time would be extremely low, despite the fact that the test qualified as a random test for statistical purposes. As is often reported, in Kenya, the remoteness of many of the training venues, combined with the fact that it was frequently impossible to get samples to an accredited lab for testing within the mandatory 36 hours, made the testing of samples collected in Kenya extremely difficult to accomplish. Even if samples had been collected in Kenya as frequently as in any other nation, many couldn't be successfully tested within the required amount of time...


How do you figure that it takes so long to get back to the lab? It's about less than a five hour drive from Iten to Nairobi and a four and a half hour flight to Johannesburg.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:31 am

Ned Ryerson wrote:
26mi235 wrote:My impression is that because of the difficulty of such testing that it was not done at nearly the frequency that it might otherwise be done. If so, I am not sure that the statement is 'highly' misleading.


I don't think that's founded (you can look at the testing statistics for out of competition tests for yourself and judge).

Someone would have to be an idiot to show up at a major championship with stuff in their system.

The best way to catch them is to blood test them as frequently as possible outside of competition.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:21 am

Ned Ryerson wrote:
Blues wrote:
I didn't necessarily think the original statement was highly misleading...

Are there statistics that show the number of successfully tested samples that were actually collected in Kenya? The statistics on random tests I've seen don't say where the sample was collected, only that the athlete was tested. If I'm not mistaken, an athlete can be anywhere and be subjected to a random test, so it's entirely possible that a number of Kenyan athletes who have records of being tested out-of-competition could have been tested in areas they'd traveled to.

And if random testing occurred in another nation prior to, or shortly after, a foreign competition, the chances of an athlete having a PED in his or her system at the time would be extremely low, despite the fact that the test qualified as a random test for statistical purposes. As is often reported, in Kenya, the remoteness of many of the training venues, combined with the fact that it was frequently impossible to get samples to an accredited lab for testing within the mandatory 36 hours, made the testing of samples collected in Kenya extremely difficult to accomplish. Even if samples had been collected in Kenya as frequently as in any other nation, many couldn't be successfully tested within the required amount of time...


How do you figure that it takes so long to get back to the lab? It's about less than a five hour drive from Iten to Nairobi and a four and a half hour flight to Johannesburg.


Because that is a very expensive way to do testing and the number of tests are limited. Further, how often do you get the flight and how often is it more than five hours, ... It would not be the issue that it is if it were simple. You seem to think it is not an issue, but the IAAF/WADA (?) have been working to improve things. The large number (17?) of positives that seem to come from apparently good/not-great runners there would indicate that they have previously tested them on site seldom and that athletes have been taking advantage of that. It is not unlikely that the top guys are much more likely to be those that do get tested in/near Iten and other sites.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby pakillo » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:32 am

So, are we still waiting to hear 17 suspected names they talked about? What a joke!!!
One can only imagine how they select and filter out certain results :|
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Ned Ryerson » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:15 am

JumboElliott wrote:
Someone would have to be an idiot to show up at a major championship with stuff in their system.

The best way to catch them is to blood test them as frequently as possible outside of competition.


I agree, but out of competition blood tests aren't yet the norm, America and Europe included.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Ned Ryerson » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:23 am

26mi235 wrote:Because that is a very expensive way to do testing and the number of tests are limited. Further, how often do you get the flight and how often is it more than five hours, ... It would not be the issue that it is if it were simple. You seem to think it is not an issue, but the IAAF/WADA (?) have been working to improve things. The large number (17?) of positives that seem to come from apparently good/not-great runners there would indicate that they have previously tested them on site seldom and that athletes have been taking advantage of that. It is not unlikely that the top guys are much more likely to be those that do get tested in/near Iten and other sites.


What makes you think tests in that part of the world are being limited on the basis of cost when you see that, in 2011, Sofia Assefa and Kenenisa Bekele were both subject to more out of competition tests than any South African athlete (where the samples are tested)?

The 17 we're waiting to hear on are going probably better than average, having been snared by the bio passports, because they probably gave blood at either the last world championships or Olympics.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby JumboElliott » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:47 am

Ned Ryerson wrote:I agree, but out of competition blood tests aren't yet the norm, America and Europe included.

If professional athletes want to be organized, one of the stipulations should be that they pay into a program that aims at much more frequent out of competition blood testing.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby gh » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:55 am

if the athletes ever truly organize, then you'll find that like the pro sports, they'll be looking for a collective bargaining agreement that would limit the scope of testing rather than expand it.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Blues » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:59 am

Ned Ryerson wrote:
26mi235 wrote:Because that is a very expensive way to do testing and the number of tests are limited. Further, how often do you get the flight and how often is it more than five hours, ... It would not be the issue that it is if it were simple. You seem to think it is not an issue, but the IAAF/WADA (?) have been working to improve things. The large number (17?) of positives that seem to come from apparently good/not-great runners there would indicate that they have previously tested them on site seldom and that athletes have been taking advantage of that. It is not unlikely that the top guys are much more likely to be those that do get tested in/near Iten and other sites.


What makes you think tests in that part of the world are being limited on the basis of cost when you see that, in 2011, Sofia Assefa and Kenenisa Bekele were both subject to more out of competition tests than any South African athlete (where the samples are tested)?

The 17 we're waiting to hear on are going probably better than average, having been snared by the bio passports, because they probably gave blood at either the last world championships or Olympics.


Much of the testing of those two athletes may have occurred in foreign countries, and there may be reasons other than cost that are responsible for less testing of some South African athletes.

I haven't seen figures of how many out of competition tests Athletics Kenya successfully administered in 2012 since there really wasn't a true national anti-doping agency in Kenya, but should the figures turn up, for comparison purposes USADA tested (or had other anti-doping agencies test) American track and field athletes out of competition 1,581 times in 2012.

And regarding any blood testing of athletes in Kenya, this article from January of 2013 sums it up:

Kenyan athletes were blood-tested for banned drugs for the first time inside the east African nation last month, Athletics Kenya chairman Isaiah Kiplagat said on Wednesday.

A total of 32 athletes took part in the voluntary out-of-competition blood tests under the recommendations of the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF).

"There was no impromptu testing. All the 32 athletes had been notified that they were required to present themselves either in Nairobi or Eldoret to undergo the tests, which were arranged and conducted by the IAAF," said Kiplagat.

Kenyan athletes have been subjected to blood tests before, but never in their own country.


http://www.supersport.com/athletics/int ... llegations
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby gh » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:50 pm

So for those who think that the Gay investigation is clouded in secrecy and taking forever to adjudicate, how about Ostapchuk?

This thread goes back to last March and her case still hasn't been resolved (and if you look at official IAAF results, she's still the '05 world champ).
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Sasuke » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:02 pm

That is a very strange case. She tested positive in London 17 months ago, then one year ago she was found positive also because of a retesting of 2005 samples. Then nothing was said. The belarus federation, blaming her trainer, gave her a one year ban on which the IAAF never officially said anything (but this happened before the retesting). The only sites to have talked a bit about her are New zealand's ones but at the moment her situation is a complete mistery... why??
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby norunner » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:17 pm

Have the other four been banned for life yet ?
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby dec7000 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:48 pm

Could it be because the stories of the Belarus head coach extorting money from athletes otherwise he would ensure they failed drug tests and he could manipulate the testing conducted at the Moscow lab may have some foundation? Could it also be there is wider involvement by the Belarus governing body and other organisations?

I, obviously, have no inside information but wonder if the above are complicating Ostapchuk's case.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Gabriella » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:18 am

dec7000 wrote:Could it be because the stories of the Belarus head coach extorting money from athletes otherwise he would ensure they failed drug tests and he could manipulate the testing conducted at the Moscow lab may have some foundation? Could it also be there is wider involvement by the Belarus governing body and other organisations?

I, obviously, have no inside information but wonder if the above are complicating Ostapchuk's case.


Don't be silly dec7000, Ostapchuk is Belorussian, not American, you don't expect posters to consider such serious allegations as an excuse for her failed tests do you?
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Sasuke » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:18 am

To me the two strangest matters around her were:
[*] She has had a long career, winning titles from a very young age.
[*] Having been busted because of a substance which was, in theory, easily detectable.

Then she was found guilty another time but after one year nothing has been said yet. Why? The russian discus thrower Darya Pishalnikova, an athlete of a certain "importance", has been given a 10 years ban very fast... are we ever going to be told anything about Ostapchuck's fate?
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby kamikaze7 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:53 am

When athletes like Olga Kuzenkova are busted for doping 8 years later, why does'nt the IAAF strip them of their medals ?

In fact even their prize money should be forfeited.

Its laughable when a 43 year old athlete is banned for two years after she spent her entire career cheating.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby gh » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:50 am

but lacking solid (or even vague) evidence thereof, she gets the only penalty possible. As it should be.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby kamikaze7 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:42 am

I see now reading the BBC account that the reason they are not stripped of medals is that there is an 8 year statute of limitation. So despite the fact that their sample was taken at the world championships of which she won gold , her medal still stands.

A statute of limitations on doping does not make sense when we all know that the people who make PEDs are often several years ahead of the testers. Its like the Police giving a bank robber a head-start.

And once again banning an athlete for two years after they have retired is plain hilarious....In a not funny way
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby gh » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:13 pm

BBC account, I believe, is wrong. IOC/IAAF went out of their way to do the Athens retests before London rolled around so that they didn't exceed the statute of limitations.

As for '05, those DQs were announced early in the '13 for the same reason. If you look at the '05 WC results on the IAAF page, you'll see a raft of DQs in place there, multiple medals reassigned.

But Ostapchuk is not among them, so her case must still be pending adjudication.

So long as the move to strike was made before the statute of limitations arrives, there's no hiding place.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby gh » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:23 am

There has been movement in the Ostapchuk case. I missed this when it was in Alfons Juck's EME Newsletter a few weeks back.

<<OSTAPCHUK AND TIKHON CONFIRMED BY BELARUS FEDERATION
MINSK (BLR): “Sovetskaya Belarussia” newspaper informs that Belarussian athletics federation banned shot putter Nadezhda Ostapchuk for four year from August 8, 2012 till August 8, 2016. She won gold at London Olympics but lost the medal cause of positive doping test. Later her re-testing sample from world championships 2005 in Helsinki also showed presence of banned substance. Beijing Olympic medalist in hammer throw Ivan Tikhon was banned for two years. Term of his disqualification will finish in August 2014. But it looks like 37-year-old thrower does not want to continue his career. “Certainly I would like to perform and to win again. But for that I need not only health but confidence and support. I worked hard before London and have got what I got…” said Tikhon. “I don’t want to get into arguments but there are no guarantees that the story does not happen again in 2016…I think it’s time to reconsider my life’s priorities." The athletes still have the usual time to appeal the decisions and final confirmation is always done by the IAAF.>>

boldface mine.
gh
 
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby norunner » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:46 am

So they were not treated as repeat offenders, otherwise they should have gotten lifelong bans. Question is why?
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