New Balance HS Indoor Nationals


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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby Blues » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:28 am

aaronk wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:WOW!!!

Sabrina Southerland just ran the SECOND FASTEST EVER indoor 800!!!

She burned the track with a time beaten indoors in high school only by Mary Decker Slaney!!

She ran 2:03.59!!

Second was Sawyer in 2:05.94, which is # 6 A-T!!
Third was Berkson in 2:06.67.....,good for # 11 A-T!!!


Old news.


Yep, you're right!

But I think I have a decent excuse!
You see, I was so busy WATCHING the meet.....this TREMENDOUS meet!!.....that I wanted to take as LITTLE time as possible away from the livestream......

so that means I typed away as fast as possible my little "bulletins".....WITHOUT first checking to see if anyone else had reported anything!!

So sorry, I didn't see your report on Ms Southerland's race before heading back to watch the next race!!

Now......any more remarks about my pretty much SOLO effort to keep everyone informed of this INCREDIBLE meet?? :roll:


As of a few days ago Ms. Southerland was trying to make up her mind between accepting a scholarship to Villanova or a scholarship to Georgetown.. I wonder if she'll end up considering any other schools now also, or if those two finalists are set in stone... Regardless, she keeps up the tradition of the 100 mile NY-Philadelphia corridor (that also includes NJ and the easternmost part of PA) of producing some exceptional 800m runners.. (Joetta Clark, Hazel Clark, Mary Cain, Ajee Wilson, the Francis girls, Charlene Lipsey, Latavia Thomas, Chanelle Price, etc, etc...)
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:26 pm

Can't forget about the greatest American 800m runner: Kim Gallagher.

Sounds like she's a smart girl too.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:08 pm

aaronk wrote:Kadecia Baird just ran 2nd leg of 23.1 on her team's 4X200R!!
(Team time of 1:38.95.)

...And avenged last year's loss (they were 3rd) to Wakefield today: 1:37.29-1:37.34. The Wakefield anchor was charging hard, but ran out of room and out of gas. Medgar Evers was taking no chances and no prisoners; 22.7 for Kadecia's 2nd leg!

They needed her to run faster than any girl had ever run in a relay. When she ran that 23.1 leg in the heats, and sandbagged her open 200 heat (24.12), I knew she was ready to go 22.x today! This race made my weekend.

Clue me in on this: Is this the 2nd time a HS girl has ever broken 23.0 indoors (the open 200 HSR 22.97 being the first) and the first time ever done in a relay? I've seen a multitude of 23.0s, 23.1s (including Kadecia's on Saturday) and 23.2s, but never a 22.9 or faster.
Last edited by CookyMonzta on Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby meatball » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:15 pm

i noticed in the boys 60 heats , Tawfiq Abdul Karim posted a6.61 in his heat ,but did not run in the semis. anyone know what the deal is?
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby aaronk » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:19 pm

How long before we start mentioning Southerland in the same breath as Mary Cain?

She's now just 0.25 behind Cain's 800 time.....and Cain's was OUTdoors!!
How much faster can Southerland go when she steps outside onto a 400 meter track??

Also, the day before, she'd run a 4:44.9 relay mile on her team's DMR.
With 2:03 speed, she may have the wheels to go low to mid-4:30's outdoors!!
Maybe 4:32 or so.

Interesting race would be her, Cain, and Ajee Wilson in an 800.....or a 1000 together!!
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:26 pm

meatball wrote:i noticed in the boys 60 heats , Tawfiq Abdul Karim posted a6.61 in his heat ,but did not run in the semis. anyone know what the deal is?

Happens all the time. Years ago, one kid ran fast enough to make the open 200 final, but was not at the meet the next day to run. Some of them are on a fixed schedule and can't afford to break it. He probably went home last night or early this morning...

...Then again, sometimes a kid and/or the coach don't want to take any chances of overdoing it, and bring on an injury. Kadecia ran 23.22w at last year's outdoor nationals, but didn't run the final. She probably got her invitation to run at the World Juniors beforehand (where she ran 51.04), and didn't want to take any chances of pulling a muscle trying to chase 22.x before going to the WJs.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:31 pm

aaronk wrote:How long before we start mentioning Southerland in the same breath as Mary Cain?

She's now just 0.25 behind Cain's 800 time.....and Cain's was OUTdoors!!
How much faster can Southerland go when she steps outside onto a 400 meter track??

We'll probably find out by late-May or June. Obviously she's a new player in the campaign for 1:59.99.

How does 2:03.59 compare to 4:28.25 on the IAAF points system?
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby aaronk » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:47 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
aaronk wrote:How long before we start mentioning Southerland in the same breath as Mary Cain?

She's now just 0.25 behind Cain's 800 time.....and Cain's was OUTdoors!!
How much faster can Southerland go when she steps outside onto a 400 meter track??

We'll probably find out by late-May or June. Obviously she's a new player in the campaign for 1:59.99.

How does 2:03.59 compare to 4:28.25 on the IAAF points system?


Sorry, don't know.
I'm one who doesn't really believe in points systems for rating different times
I cater more to the psychology of running.

Take someone whose best 800 (880) is 2:08.
She wants to run a 4:32 mile.
At 2:16 per half, that's just 8 secs slower than her PR.
So she might fear going out in 2:16....knowing she's never run more than 8 secs faster in an open 800.

But what if she improves to 2:04?
Then, going out in 2:16 would be a much more relaxed slowdown of 12 secs from her PR, not 8 secs!!
She might have the same ability....at 2:08 that she now has at 2:04.
But thinking a 12 sec slowdown....instead of just 8....provides a PSYCHOLOGICAL boost to her confidence....and a lessening of her fears.

Thus, when Cain improved her 800 from around 2:06 or 2:07 down to 2:03.34.....she could then feel more confident trying to run 2:16 halves.....which she stated was her goal in that first mile record (4:32.78).
If she'd still been at 2:06 or 2:07....she might not have felt that confidence.

Armchair Freud bullshit?? :)
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:50 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
aaronk wrote:How long before we start mentioning Southerland in the same breath as Mary Cain?

She's now just 0.25 behind Cain's 800 time.....and Cain's was OUTdoors!!
How much faster can Southerland go when she steps outside onto a 400 meter track??

We'll probably find out by late-May or June. Obviously she's a new player in the campaign for 1:59.99.

How does 2:03.59 compare to 4:28.25 on the IAAF points system?


2:03.57 compares to 4:33.98

4:28.28 compares to 2:01.22

Cain's mile compares to an 8:52 3000m btw.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby unclezadok » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:30 am

To me Southerland's race was the most impressive performance of the weekend, NCAA or New Balance. And I'm a multi-events fan and the NCAA heptathlon was great. There should be some great match-ups during outdoors among the young women runners.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby gm » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:59 am

meatball wrote:i noticed in the boys 60 heats , Tawfiq Abdul Karim posted a6.61 in his heat ,but did not run in the semis. anyone know what the deal is?


It appears that was an errant 55m en route time.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby aaronk » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:30 am

gm wrote:
meatball wrote:i noticed in the boys 60 heats , Tawfiq Abdul Karim posted a6.61 in his heat ,but did not run in the semis. anyone know what the deal is?


It appears that was an errant 55m en route time.


The results sheet doesn't indicate it was a 55 enroute time.
Do you have the source for that??
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby dj » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:38 am

aaronk wrote:
gm wrote:
meatball wrote:i noticed in the boys 60 heats , Tawfiq Abdul Karim posted a6.61 in his heat ,but did not run in the semis. anyone know what the deal is?


It appears that was an errant 55m en route time.


The results sheet doesn't indicate it was a 55 enroute time.
Do you have the source for that??


The 6.11 was en route to 7.11 in the heats. He didn't advance to the semis.

http://www.armorytrack.com/Meet/1431/Ne ... onals-1213
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby aaronk » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:52 am

unclezadok wrote:To me Southerland's race was the most impressive performance of the weekend, NCAA or New Balance. And I'm a multi-events fan and the NCAA heptathlon was great. There should be some great match-ups during outdoors among the young women runners.


Gee, you're brave! :)

There were sooooooo many great performances from the NCAA's and the NB.

From the NCAA, there were the distance doubles from D'Agostino and Lalang......the Drouin HJ......the Marquis Dendy double (27-2 LJ and 53+ TJ)......the Andrea Geubelle twin wins (and 46+ TJ!!).....Tia Brooks 63 footer......Kim Duncan's performances......Chantae Miller's 50.88.....B Rollins in the 60H.....!!

I'd choose one (or both) of the distance doubles!

From the NB's, besides Southerland's great double (She also anchored her winning 11:39.10 DMR team with a 4:44.9 1600!!).....there was Wesley Frazier's great double win (with that SHOCKING finish in the 5000!!)......the 2nd best-ever SP from Ewen (54-1)......the 8.17 from Sasha Wallace.....the 83-6 Wt from Rudy Winkler.....the double (or was that triple??) performance from Ed Cheserek.....the Pentathlon HSR of 4068 for Kendell Williams (plus some individual events!!).....and so many others (Precious Holmes, Kedecia Baird, Michael Cherry.....even Erin Finn, who probably ran the most COURAGEOUS race....going out at 15:55 pace through 3K, DESPITE being SICK!!....and then still finishing just 0.01 behind Frazier!).

My personal pick would be Kendell Williams Pent HSR.
I mean, she CRUSHED what had been a pretty good record!!
And became the first 4000 point girl!!

(This is not AT ALL dismissing Southerland's FANTASTIC run (or her relay leg)!! Maybe they could say Williams was the FIELD MVP......and Southerland the TRACK MVP!! :D )
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:09 pm

unclezadok wrote:To me Southerland's race was the most impressive performance of the weekend, NCAA or New Balance. And I'm a multi-events fan and the NCAA heptathlon was great. There should be some great match-ups during outdoors among the young women runners.



2:03.59 is very good, but its place on the indoor list is overstated by the relatively thin nature of indoor racing. It is nowhere close to KG's 2:00.0x mark and more than a second slower than third at the NCAA meet where athletes were running three races not one, and championship running might have constrained the marks. For comparison, the third place in the mile was 4:36.91, ten seconds behind Cain's mark. With the likes of 7.79, the two TJ/LJ doubles, O,O,O,O,O,O,O, until 2.38, 50.88/51/05/51.26; 8.28/8.21m LJ; 15 over 5.40 including two from the Hept; 6175/6165 Hept with the highest non-winning score ever (for the second year in a row) despite the fact that last year's winner red-shirted and the list leader was hurt and did not compete....
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby aaronk » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:22 pm

26mi235 wrote:
unclezadok wrote:To me Southerland's race was the most impressive performance of the weekend, NCAA or New Balance. And I'm a multi-events fan and the NCAA heptathlon was great. There should be some great match-ups during outdoors among the young women runners.



2:03.59 is very good, but its place on the indoor list is overstated by the relatively thin nature of indoor racing. It is nowhere close to KG's 2:00.0x mark and more than a second slower than third at the NCAA meet where athletes were running three races not one, and championship running might have constrained the marks. For comparison, the third place in the mile was 4:36.91, ten seconds behind Cain's mark. With the likes of 7.79, the two TJ/LJ doubles, O,O,O,O,O,O,O, until 2.38, 50.88/51/05/51.26; 8.28/8.21m LJ; 15 over 5.40 including two from the Hept; 6175/6165 Hept with the highest non-winning score ever (for the second year in a row) despite the fact that last year's winner red-shirted and the list leader was hurt and did not compete....


Looked at in another way......Cain's 4:28.25 would have WON the NCAA women's mile!!
And her 9:04.51 enroute 3000 record would have finished SECOND behind D'Agostino!!
(And who doesn't believe Cain would have outkicked D'Agostino?? She beat her in that mile!!)
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:27 pm

Count me as one that thinks she would not beat Abby, who not only won the 3000 but beat Saina (31:30 10,000 PR, 15:2x 5000) in that race and the 5000.

Abby previous races were not the focus of her season and was not peaked at all (want to bet who had a bigger training week before that race?).
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby JumboElliott » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:15 pm

You think Alberto Salazar is training Mary Cain to peak in February?
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:25 pm

Yes, in the sense that she focused training and lighter training around those events. Abby did the same, but the events she backed off for where the 3000/5000 this weekend, not the race she ran against Cain.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby aaronk » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:34 pm

On the latest (as of March 11) HS Leaders list on this page, Annie Rhodes (and Taylor) are given 13-10 marks in the PV.
But in her interview after winning at NB, Rhodes mentions having vaulted 13-11 and 1/2 the previous Thursday (March 7) somewhere in Texas.

I know the lists don't always have all the latest marks, so does anyone know the details on that 13-11 and 1/2 vault??

Was it indoors...outdoors...a vault made in practice??
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby aaronk » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:50 am

This is just to bring my earlier question back into play.
About Annie Rhodes (NB PV winner) saying in an interview that she'd vaulted 13-11 and 1/2 the Thursday before NB (Mar 7)....in Texas.

Know the details?

Was it a practice vault?
Was it in a meet?
Indoors?
Outdoors?

Anyone from Texas know of this?
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:10 am

Ask on PoleVaultPower, although Becca might show up here at some point (she does have other distractions!).
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby gm » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:31 pm

aaronk wrote:This is just to bring my earlier question back into play.
About Annie Rhodes (NB PV winner) saying in an interview that she'd vaulted 13-11 and 1/2 the Thursday before NB (Mar 7)....in Texas.

Know the details?

Was it a practice vault?
Was it in a meet?
Indoors?
Outdoors?

Anyone from Texas know of this?


Pioneer Relays at Boswell. Definitely outdoors.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby aaronk » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:51 am

Question regarding Kailee Sawyer of Laurel Creek, who finished 2nd to S Southerland in that 800 with time of 2:05.94.

In the updated US List out today, she's not listed in the 800.
The girl who finished BEHIND her is....with her time of 2:06.67.
And of course, Southerland is on the list.

Why isn't Sawyer on the list??
Is she not an American??
(Have no idea where Laurel Creek is!!)
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby aaronk » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:09 pm

Answered my own question....about K Sawyer!!

She's Canadian, and is pretty young, born in 1997!!

Looks like the long history of strong female Canadian 800 running is going to continue!!
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby CookyMonzta » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:13 pm

26mi235 wrote:2:03.59 is very good, but its place on the indoor list is overstated by the relatively thin nature of indoor racing. It is nowhere close to KG's 2:00.0x mark and more than a second slower than third at the NCAA meet where athletes were running three races not one, and championship running might have constrained the marks

You forgot one thing: Ajee Wilson ran 2:04.13 indoors last year, and she graduated from HS with a 2:00.91 outdoor performance. Southerland is as fast a 400 runner as Wilson was in her senior year. Once more, she hit the 600 mark in 1:30.9, which would rank her 2nd on the indoor list. She almost certainly would have broken the 600 HSR now, if she were to have run it in a big race late in the season.

For that, I'd say Southerland's 2:03.59 on Sunday, its place on the indoor list (behind none other than Mary Decker), and her potential for 1:59.xx outdoors, are actually understated and underestimated.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby LadyT » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:42 am

CookyMonzta wrote:
26mi235 wrote:2:03.59 is very good, but its place on the indoor list is overstated by the relatively thin nature of indoor racing. It is nowhere close to KG's 2:00.0x mark and more than a second slower than third at the NCAA meet where athletes were running three races not one, and championship running might have constrained the marks

You forgot one thing: Ajee Wilson ran 2:04.13 indoors last year, and she graduated from HS with a 2:00.91 outdoor performance. Southerland is as fast a 400 runner as Wilson was in her senior year. Once more, she hit the 600 mark in 1:30.9, which would rank her 2nd on the indoor list. She almost certainly would have broken the 600 HSR now, if she were to have run it in a big race late in the season.

For that, I'd say Southerland's 2:03.59 on Sunday, its place on the indoor list (behind none other than Mary Decker), and her potential for 1:59.xx outdoors, are actually understated and underestimated.


The 1:59 is overreaching a bit. Southerland is good, but sub 2 is a lot harder than many assume. Ajee ran 2:04 last winter, but was capable of faster. She had already run 2:02 the summer before that. And what is Southerland's 400m PR? Ajee ran 54 in the open quarter and several 52 splits.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby CookyMonzta » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:50 pm

LadyT wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:
26mi235 wrote:2:03.59 is very good, but its place on the indoor list is overstated by the relatively thin nature of indoor racing. It is nowhere close to KG's 2:00.0x mark and more than a second slower than third at the NCAA meet where athletes were running three races not one, and championship running might have constrained the marks

You forgot one thing: Ajee Wilson ran 2:04.13 indoors last year, and she graduated from HS with a 2:00.91 outdoor performance. Southerland is as fast a 400 runner as Wilson was in her senior year. Once more, she hit the 600 mark in 1:30.9, which would rank her 2nd on the indoor list. She almost certainly would have broken the 600 HSR now, if she were to have run it in a big race late in the season.

For that, I'd say Southerland's 2:03.59 on Sunday, its place on the indoor list (behind none other than Mary Decker), and her potential for 1:59.xx outdoors, are actually understated and underestimated.


The 1:59 is overreaching a bit. Southerland is good, but sub 2 is a lot harder than many assume. Ajee ran 2:04 last winter, but was capable of faster. She had already run 2:02 the summer before that. And what is Southerland's 400m PR? Ajee ran 54 in the open quarter and several 52 splits.

I don't know what Sabrina's open 400 PR is, but she anchored a 55.0 at the New York City PSAL Champs late last month, after running 2:48.24 for the 1,000 and 4:39.55 for the 1,500 that same day.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby aaronk » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:56 pm

FYI, according to the announcer, Sabrina's opening 400 was 58.6!!
That means her splits were approx 58.6 and 65!!
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby Dutra5 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:28 pm

aaronk wrote:FYI, according to the announcer, Sabrina's opening 400 was 58.6!!
That means her splits were approx 58.6 and 65!!


I haven't seen any splits but I think that split was wrong. Looked more like 59.2....59.3. Still very fast.
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby CookyMonzta » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:39 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:FYI, according to the announcer, Sabrina's opening 400 was 58.6!!
That means her splits were approx 58.6 and 65!!


I haven't seen any splits but I think that split was wrong. Looked more like 59.2....59.3. Still very fast.

I was there. I had 29.3, 59.8 and 1:30.9.

There are more videoclips here:

http://www.dyestat.com/gprofile.php?do=videos&mgroup_event_id=1164&mgroup_id=44531&year=2013

and here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/newbalancenationals

Here's the girls' 800 elite section:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzQXeGGNGlQ
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Re: New Balance HS Indoor Nationals

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:17 am

CookyMonzta wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:FYI, according to the announcer, Sabrina's opening 400 was 58.6!!
That means her splits were approx 58.6 and 65!!


I haven't seen any splits but I think that split was wrong. Looked more like 59.2....59.3. Still very fast.

I was there. I had 29.3, 59.8 and 1:30.9.

There are more videoclips here:


Your 400 split makes more sense. The announcer at the meet, it appeared, mixed up the lines (or whoever was giving it to him) as he started to give the split as Southerland approached the 400m line. I think the sub 59 came from the relay zone line.
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