kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson


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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby batonless relay » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:04 pm

I'm not saying Miller will be unsuccessful and I'm not saying that she won't run sub-50 or even sub-49. What I am saying is that Miller is going to grow stronger. It is my belief that she is only beginning to learn how to unwind that tall body; and even though she's still learning, she still ran 11.41 and 22.70 last year as well as 51.25 a few months before WJC (the 51.78 is not indicative of her ability, she was injured last year after sprinting so much). Look at her...she's not going to get much lighter than she is right now; it would make sense to use the power and strength she will develop. I am NOT saying that she is the next Bolt of the women, only that I think she can be (with a whole lotta IF's). She doesn't overstride, she has pretty good arm carriage and she is well trained (her current coach was her coach in the Bahamas before he left for UGA)...she may not be a true LONG sprinter.

I am NOT saying that she will be but I wouldn't be surprised if she's 10.7 in a few years. I see a bit of Marion Jones ability there...just taller (and for the moment not as fast). I'm thinking a stronger Grace Jackson (11.08/21.72/49.57)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzF5JcqxhO0 Miller WJC 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7pd3dDTjCI Miller WYC 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQKYKdPHq-s Miller SEC 2013 Look at the body change

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3-wG6z1uB0 Bolt...notice how he doesn't overstride?

Again, not saying that she will be "Bolt" or Marion its just that she has a lot of the cues that say "short sprinter" - even though she's so tall. By the way, Sanya has many of those same cues and would be a "triple-sub" if not for the 22.09.
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby Layne6 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:15 pm

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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby lonewolf » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:40 pm

Layne6 wrote:Hiya, love your site..please do visit my site sometimes and leave a comment. thanks

A link would be helpful.
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:15 pm

BR: I think that the basic speed will change less than the long-sprint speed. Jones was an 11.1 sprinter in HS; her 100 times did not improve that much, especially if you strip out a couple of tenths for PEDs at her peak but not while in high school. Thus even if she matures a lot more than Jones did where Jones went 11.1 =>10.9- KB might only go 11.7 => 11.2. [Partly, I think part of the PED draw for her was to do all those events (100/200/LJ/4x100/4x400) because she wanted five (gold) medals and immortality. Thus, she needed to be able to recover and train more. Jones was not as tall but she was not short, so I do not see the same progressions that you are thinking might be forthcoming.

Actually, I think I just place lower likelihood on that than you do, so it is a difference in degree, not in kind.
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby CookyMonzta » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:15 pm

JumboElliott wrote:To put Sanya in perspective: Sanya ran 23.22 and 52.10 at HS indoor nationals in 2002 at the Armory, winning both. Baird ran 24.12 and a 53.8 relay leg in the same meet. They're basically the exact same relative age.

She was sandbagging that 200 heat. Medgar Evers wanted to avenge their loss (3rd) to Wakefield at last year's NBINs, and she ran only fast enough to get her prepared for the next day's 4x200 final, where she ran a 22.7 second leg. If she had gone all-out in that open 200 heat, she surely would have made the A-final and come thisclose to (as in 23.0x or 23.1x), or broken, Bianca Knight's HSR of 22.97.
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby Layne6 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:28 am

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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby Master Po » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:05 am

JumboElliott wrote:Exactly, Miller is 6'1. Has there ever been a successful female sprinter that tall?


Did not realize she is so tall. I can't think of another that height -- Perec, 5'10"/180cm, seemed to tower over everyone else on the track with her (but that may have had as much to do with how fast she was, and how tall she seemed to be -- I actually thought she was taller). Interesting to consider someone 3" taller than Perec out there.
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby batonless relay » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:25 am

26:
Here's an all-time list for youths:11.13 2.0 Chandra Cheeseborough USA 21/06/1976;
11.14 1.7 Marion Jones USA 06/06/1992; 11.14 -0.5 Angela Williams USA 21/06/1997;
11.16 1.2 Gabrielle Mayo USA 22/06/2006; 11.17 A 0.6 Wendy Vereen USA 03/07/1983;
11.17 2.0 Marion Jones 01/06/1991; 11.20 A 1.2 Raelene Boyle AUS 15/10/1968;
11.24 1.2 Jeneba Tarmoh USA 22/06/2006; 11.24 0.8 Jodie Williams GBR 31/05/2010;
11.26 1.4 Grit Breuer GDR 30/06/1989; 11.26 1.2 Bianca Knight USA 22/06/2006;
11.28 0.0 Angela Burnham USA 16/07/1988; 11.30 A 1.3 Margaret Bailes USA 14/10/1968

Marion is the only athlete from the Youth list to go on tho run 10.7 or better. I don't think anyone else on the list broke 11.00. Of the following all-time juniors (10.88 2.0 Marlies Göhr GDR; Katrin Krabbe GDR; Silke Gladisch-Möller GDR; English Gardner USA; Angela Williams USA; Bianca Knight USA; Brenda Morehead US; Shakedia Jones USA; Joan Uduak Ekah NGR; Veronica Campbell-Brown JAM; Alexandria Anderson USA; Aurieyall Scott USA; Chandra Cheeseborough USA; Grit Breuer GER; Ashley Owens USA; Liliana Allen CUB; Marion Jones USA; Ivet Lalova BUL; Allyson Felix USA; Gabrielle Mayo USA; Victoria Jordan USA; Octavious Freeman USA; Wendy Vereen USA; Lin Xiao CHN; Kelly-Ann Baptiste TRI; Ashton Purvis USA; Silvia Chivás CUB; Diana Dietz GER; Nicole Mitchell JAM;
Jodie Williams GBR) only Campbell-Brown and Jones have run 10.7 and Göhr and Gladisch-Möller were close. Few of the others have broken 11.

The point is that it is MORE likely that a 10.7 runner will NOT come from that 11.1/11.2 prodigy list than will.

Also, your assumptions about basic speed SHOULD be based upon how she is trained (especially after noting above the attrition rate of all-time youths and juniors in the quest to run 10.7). If she is trained as a 100/200m runner than she should drop considerably. If she is trained as a 400m runner who sometimes runs the 1 and the 2 then she won't develop her speed. Speed is NOT necessarily static; it can change precipitously, it can be improved. quite a few 400m runners have successfully moved DOWN to the 100m (Mark Witherspoon and Dennis Mitchell come to mind)

As for Jones and PED's...Jones was talented. She could have been the same runner without PED's and better with a different coach.

You're right, there isn't much disagreement between us
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby batonless relay » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:29 am

Master Po wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:Exactly, Miller is 6'1. Has there ever been a successful female sprinter that tall?


Did not realize she is so tall. I can't think of another that height -- Perec, 5'10"/180cm, seemed to tower over everyone else on the track with her (but that may have had as much to do with how fast she was, and how tall she seemed to be -- I actually thought she was taller). Interesting to consider someone 3" taller than Perec out there.

batonless relay wrote:I'm thinking a stronger Grace Jackson (11.08/21.72/49.57)


Grace Jackson is TALLER than Shaunae Miller
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby Master Po » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:21 am

batonless relay wrote:
Master Po wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:Exactly, Miller is 6'1. Has there ever been a successful female sprinter that tall?


Did not realize she is so tall. I can't think of another that height -- Perec, 5'10"/180cm, seemed to tower over everyone else on the track with her (but that may have had as much to do with how fast she was, and how tall she seemed to be -- I actually thought she was taller). Interesting to consider someone 3" taller than Perec out there.

batonless relay wrote:I'm thinking a stronger Grace Jackson (11.08/21.72/49.57)



Grace Jackson is TALLER than Shaunae Miller


Thanks -- it's always the case that I overlook an answer in any question posed here.
Didn't realize Grace Jackson was so tall.
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby JumboElliott » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:44 am

The tallest listing I can see for Jackson is six feet.
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby batonless relay » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:49 am

JumboElliott wrote:The tallest listing I can see for Jackson is six feet.

that's alright, but you would be wrong because it's not what you see, it's what is. I've met them both; Jackson is taller.
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby gh » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:42 am

6-0 is indeed what Jackson was always listed at, but having stood next to her, I'd certainly think her taller than that (not that looking down to find me is any particularly tough feat!)
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Re: kadecia baird compares well to cain and wilson

Postby batonless relay » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:40 pm

batonless relay wrote:I'm not saying Miller will be unsuccessful and I'm not saying that she won't run sub-50 or even sub-49. What I am saying is that Miller is going to grow stronger. It is my belief that she is only beginning to learn how to unwind that tall body; and even though she's still learning, she still ran 11.41 and 22.70 last year as well as 51.25 a few months before WJC (the 51.78 is not indicative of her ability, she was injured last year after sprinting so much). Look at her...she's not going to get much lighter than she is right now; it would make sense to use the power and strength she will develop. I am NOT saying that she is the next Bolt of the women, only that I think she can be (with a whole lotta IF's). She doesn't overstride, she has pretty good arm carriage and she is well trained (her current coach was her coach in the Bahamas before he left for UGA)...she may not be a true LONG sprinter.

I am NOT saying that she will be but I wouldn't be surprised if she's 10.7 in a few years. I see a bit of Marion Jones ability there...just taller (and for the moment not as fast). I'm thinking a stronger Grace Jackson (11.08/21.72/49.57)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzF5JcqxhO0 Miller WJC 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7pd3dDTjCI Miller WYC 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQKYKdPHq-s Miller SEC 2013 Look at the body change

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3-wG6z1uB0 Bolt...notice how he doesn't overstride?

Again, not saying that she will be "Bolt" or Marion its just that she has a lot of the cues that say "short sprinter" - even though she's so tall. By the way, Sanya has many of those same cues and would be a "triple-sub" if not for the 22.09.


I said a few months back that I thought Shawnae Miller would ultimately move down to the 100 and though she hasn't yet, her improvement at 200m seems to indicate that her greater success, imo, will ultimately be with the shorter sprints. She ran 22.45 (legal?) this weekend according to the article on the front page http://www.thenassauguardian.com/index. ... -nationals
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