low turnout at USATF Indoor?


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low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby gh » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:15 pm

looks like the fields might be a bit sparse. For those who have posited on another thread that being "national champ" is all that's required, I hasten to remind that that's 50-years-ago thinking. The nation's (world's) top athletes are now pros, and running/jumping/throwing is their occupation.

In a year where the goal is to be in shape (almost) in late June and in full shape in early August, there's little reason to go overboard for a meaningless (in a non-indoor-WC year) nationals.

Here's the prize-money scale

1st - $2,500
2nd - $1,500
3rd - $500
4th - $500

Unless y0ur shoe contract offers a big bonus for an indoor title, why risk losing money on the weekend?

Modern Track 101, lesson 01
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby az2004 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:26 am

i notice universal has tv saturday

and nbc sports on sunday

does any one know if live streaming exists for the usatf meet
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:55 am

As noted elsewhere, having the meet at altitude is hardly a great place distance runners.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby az2004 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:56 am

bershawn jackson and jeremy wariner are running the 400 so they seem more likely to have a contract with an indoor title clause then most others

although why someone runs seems to differ

wariner getting back of track

jackson getting some speed work

centro isrunning

odd with rupp and farah taking time off

ulrey has scratched, so is c3ntro loss to lomong a factor
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby az2004 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:03 am

Conor Dary wrote:As noted elsewhere, having the meet at altitude is hardly a great place distance runners.



bigger names willing to run at abq
altitude

lagat 3k
centro mile
centro 800 seems to be like cain with 800 and mile as options

infeld and uhl doing 3k

around 5000 feet, maybe some want racing at that height
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:10 am

az2004 wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:As noted elsewhere, having the meet at altitude is hardly a great place distance runners.



bigger names willing to run at abq
altitude

lagat 3k
centro mile
centro 800 seems to be like cain with 800 and mile as options

infeld and uhl doing 3k

around 5000 feet, maybe some want racing at that height


Well Lagat is no surprise. He is nearing the end of his career and besides altitude is an advantage for him.

Why would anyone want, except maybe Lagat, to race at altitude for a distance race.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby az2004 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:30 am

people go to altitude to train so treating this weekend as training might be what some are doing
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby jamboy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:00 am

Track and Field is dying a slow death here in the US.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:02 am

jamboy wrote:Track and Field is dying a slow death here in the US.


What else is new.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby vip » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:19 pm

Unless my son or daughter was clearly an elite athlete coming out of college, I'd advise them to get on with their 9-to-5 career and skip the pro circuit altogether. Because it really isn't worth the crumbs you get UNLESS you're elite and getting six figures from your sponsor(s) and Olympic caliber. If you're just a lane-filler to Allyson or Bolt or whomever, and your sponsor gives you a contract weighted down with hard-to-reach incentives, why bother? Is "the love of the sport" really worth it? You live in fear of your sponsor pulling the plug and having you scramble to find funding while working part-time at a job you hate just to cover your training expenses. That's no way to live.

Here's a scenario: Someone who was an All-American, but not quite top-10 in the world talent, embarks on a pro career anyway. He or she spends 6-8 years chasing nickels and dimes and just barely missing Olympic teams. By the time they realize they'll never make a decent living, they're already 28 or 30 years old without anything on their resume except "Bolt once beat me in the 200" which won't get you hired at a Fortune 500 company. You're starting off in the mailroom at age 32 and your bank account is nil.

Unless your ultimate goal is to become a track coach at a local school, you're better off skipping this pro route and cashing in on your college major right away and having a normal, productive and potentially financially more rewarding life.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby dl » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:20 pm

Lagat never declared, so he's out. Only 4 declared for the 3000. Ouch.

I can attest that the altitude keeps away a lot of athletes in the mile/3000. Pity, because it should be about competition and not performances, but I can't blame a sea-level altitude for not wanting to race there if a World Indoor berth isn't on the line...
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:24 pm

dl wrote:Lagat never declared, so he's out. Only 4 declared for the 3000. Ouch.

I can attest that the altitude keeps away a lot of athletes in the mile/3000. Pity, because it should be about competition and not performances, but I can't blame a sea-level altitude for not wanting to race there if a World Indoor berth isn't on the line...


4! Wow, that should play well....
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby 4:24-miler » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:37 pm

A question for the veteran track fans. Was US Indoor Nationals once a prestigious annual meet?
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby gh » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:48 pm

jamboy wrote:Track and Field is dying a slow death here in the US.


I nearly fell off my dinosaur the first time I heard that.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby kuha » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:04 pm

dl wrote:Lagat never declared, so he's out. Only 4 declared for the 3000. Ouch.

I can attest that the altitude keeps away a lot of athletes in the mile/3000. Pity, because it should be about competition and not performances, but I can't blame a sea-level altitude for not wanting to race there if a World Indoor berth isn't on the line...


And when you put all the variables together here--altitude site; no inherent prestige; no World qualifier--you get NEITHER performances nor (meaningful) competition.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby marknhj » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:09 pm

4:24-miler wrote:A question for the veteran track fans. Was US Indoor Nationals once a prestigious annual meet?


I used to watch it as a kid in England on Saturday afternoon's Grandstand program. I doubt that happens anymore.

The women's HJ has three competitors. It hardly seems worth bothering :(
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:10 pm

In the I Feb. 1971 TandFNews there is an article, by Joe Henderson!, with the title: Track Interest Waning in US and a picture of a pretty empty Coliseum for the 1969 LA International meet.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby kuha » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:11 pm

Conor Dary wrote:In the I Feb. 1971 TandFNews there is an article, by Joe Henderson!, with the title: Track Interest Waning in US and a picture of a pretty empty Coliseum for the 1969 LA International meet.


Thus, people were riding dinosaurs up through the early 1970s. Interesting.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:15 pm

4:24-miler wrote:A question for the veteran track fans. Was US Indoor Nationals once a prestigious annual meet?


Put 1963 National Indoor Championships MSG into Youtube and watch. Pretty amazing stuff, 50 years ago. Exciting crowds, you can hear the thrill when the mile splits are announced, and even Douglas MacArthur was there, about a year before he died.

A whole different era.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:19 pm

kuha wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:In the I Feb. 1971 TandFNews there is an article, by Joe Henderson!, with the title: Track Interest Waning in US and a picture of a pretty empty Coliseum for the 1969 LA International meet.


Thus, people were riding dinosaurs up through the early 1970s. Interesting.


Henderson's reasons for the decline include, among others, 'Drug-taking rules are flaunted'.

Some things never change.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Dutra5 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:28 pm

4:24-miler wrote:A question for the veteran track fans. Was US Indoor Nationals once a prestigious annual meet?


When the NY area had at least 3 Indoor meets...Millrose, Olympic Invitational and Nationals....it always appeared that the National meet was the poorest of the three attended.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby kuha » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:30 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
4:24-miler wrote:A question for the veteran track fans. Was US Indoor Nationals once a prestigious annual meet?


Put 1963 National Indoor Championships MSG into Youtube and watch. Pretty amazing stuff, 50 years ago. Exciting crowds, you can hear the thrill when the mile splits are announced, and even Douglas MacArthur was there, about a year before he died.

A whole different era.


The original question is a good one. I first went to a major indoor meet at MSG in February 1968, and it is my IMPRESSION that by that time, the official championship meet was generally no better than the best of the other meets--Millrose, K of C, whatever. I would certainly believe that the championship meet was generally bigger and better than most other indoor meets in earlier years, but it would help to hear from those even older than me (is that possible?) and/or to do some research in back issues of T&FN.

My on-going gripe is that the OUTDOOR US nationals quit meaning very much by the late 1970s or early 1980s. That was a huge meet in the 1950s-60s, but started withering at about the time the dinosaurs started croaking.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby aaronk » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:35 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
4:24-miler wrote:A question for the veteran track fans. Was US Indoor Nationals once a prestigious annual meet?


Put 1963 National Indoor Championships MSG into Youtube and watch. Pretty amazing stuff, 50 years ago. Exciting crowds, you can hear the thrill when the mile splits are announced, and even Douglas MacArthur was there, about a year before he died.

A whole different era.


Maybe LOLO will show up....and things will get lively!! :P
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby az2004 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:40 pm

thnks what arace, a finnish and polish runner in the race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBMQEZAbfmA

interviewed by jack witaker at the end
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby az2004 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:42 pm

and here is the first 4 minute mile indoor 358.9

abc wide world of sport\\

jum mckay, what a call

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRX4ljo7ffw
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Pego » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:47 pm

While I would never argue that T&F in USA (worldwide, really) isn't moribund, using popularity of indoor track may not be a good measurement. I for one would drive thousands of miles to attend the OT's, but never were compelled to attend an indoor meet. I'll watch it on TV, but with considerably less enthusiasm. Not nearly the same thing.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby kuha » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:00 pm

Pego wrote:While I would never argue that T&F in USA (worldwide, really) isn't moribund, using popularity of indoor track may not be a good measurement. I for one would drive thousands of miles to attend the OT's, but never were compelled to attend an indoor meet. I'll watch it on TV, but with considerably less enthusiasm. Not nearly the same thing.


Indoor was huge in NYC, the nation's biggest media center, and also big in cities that really didn't have much of any outdoor tradition: Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, etc. It was also significant in areas that DID have good outdoor seasons: San Francisco, L.A., etc.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby tm71 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:00 pm

i was appaled when i read the entry lists. in my 25 yrs of following the sport in the us i have NEVER seen smaller fields in a national championship whether indoor or outdoor. very few london olympic medilists are even bothering to show up and some of the fields are far from elite. i attended the 1997 usatf indoor meet at the georgia dome and despite the meet being held 7 months after the olympic games, many of the "stars" showed up and competed well. i dont know whether it is the site or not, but in reality very few sites have been good for indoor meets. if i were the usatf i would rotate the meet between boston or new york and arkansas and would not bother with other sites. the funny thing is the meet will be live on TV both saturday and sunday, so perhaps now dwight stones will have the satisfaction of showing all three female high jump competitors on the air !
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:08 pm

az2004 wrote:thnks what arace, a finnish and polish runner in the race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBMQEZAbfmA

interviewed by jack witaker at the end


Also in that race, at the back, was the HS mile record holder, 4:03.5, at the time, Tom Sullivan, then at Villanova.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby marknhj » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:09 pm

Pego wrote:I'll watch it on TV, but with considerably less enthusiasm. Not nearly the same thing.


Actually, I used to find some world class indoor meets in Europe more enjoyable to watch live than outdoors. The atmosphere can be fantastic as you're so close to the action, I sometimes preferred competing indoors for that reason too. The Al Franklin ones in the LA Sports Arena used to be fun to attend.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby kuha » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:26 pm

marknhj wrote:
Pego wrote:I'll watch it on TV, but with considerably less enthusiasm. Not nearly the same thing.


Actually, I used to find some world class indoor meets in Europe more enjoyable to watch live than outdoors. The atmosphere can be fantastic as you're so close to the action, I sometimes preferred competing indoors for that reason too. The Al Franklin ones in the LA Sports Arena used to be fun to attend.


Totally true. An "average" indoor meet had far more energy and electricity than any "average" outdoor meet. The best indoor meets I saw in the old days in NYC were really great.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby dukehjsteve » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:25 pm

kuha wrote:
marknhj wrote:
Pego wrote:I'll watch it on TV, but with considerably less enthusiasm. Not nearly the same thing.


Actually, I used to find some world class indoor meets in Europe more enjoyable to watch live than outdoors. The atmosphere can be fantastic as you're so close to the action, I sometimes preferred competing indoors for that reason too. The Al Franklin ones in the LA Sports Arena used to be fun to attend.


Totally true. An "average" indoor meet had far more energy and electricity than any "average" outdoor meet. The best indoor meets I saw in the old days in NYC were really great.



I've posted about this before, but my "big night out" at ages 15,16,17,and 18 was when my Dad took me to MSG to see the AAU meet every year. The start of a long love affair....
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby GMH454 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:40 pm

gh wrote:Here's the prize-money scale

1st - $2,500
2nd - $1,500
3rd - $500
4th - $500

Unless y0ur shoe contract offers a big bonus for an indoor title, why risk losing money on the weekend?

Modern Track 101, lesson 01


was going to make a joke about "well at least the weight throwers will be there...", but the pole vaulters are certainly turning up, and yes the weight throws has the usual suspects, ... mens shot has a couple of big names in Hoffa and Cantwell missing, a US nationals without Hoffa, Cantwell, or Nelson does not sound quite right
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby aaronk » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:34 am

Trivia time!
(Or basic info time??)

Wasn't there an outdoor championships....either NCAA or USATF (AAU??)....maybe 25 years ago....outdoors somewhere in the midwest??......where the women's 10K had just ONE contestant??

She had to run the entire race, of course....and give an "honest effort".....which she did, as I recall.....running 34:00 or less....which back then was a decent time!!

Anybody remember the race....and who ran it??
(And WON it, of course!! :D )
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby az2004 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:25 am

cain to do the 800 according to article on fron page

http://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield ... alb_7.html


will attend college, the running for a college is not decided yet

going to school like wilson and felix, but running for a school is yet to be scene

doing the 800 work, i think is needed for a faster 1500

she needs to train for the 800, to get sub 4:10 i think
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby TN1965 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:03 pm

dl wrote:Lagat never declared, so he's out. Only 4 declared for the 3000. Ouch.


Guaranteed paychecks to all finishers. :)
And Lagat will get a much bigger one in two weeks.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby az2004 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:44 pm

walt murphy repoerted in the cain thtread that cain has moved from 800to mile

or salazar had a change of heart

and centro will do 800 unless he bombs out of the 800

when are rules rules

i had thought i had seen lagat declaring for 3k

personally whoever wants to run, please run

i'll wait thill 4pm eastern and enjoy who runs

after watching the euro indoors
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby tandfman » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:08 pm

aaronk wrote:Trivia time!
(Or basic info time??)

Wasn't there an outdoor championships....either NCAA or USATF (AAU??)....maybe 25 years ago....outdoors somewhere in the midwest??......where the women's 10K had just ONE contestant??

She had to run the entire race, of course....and give an "honest effort".....which she did, as I recall.....running 34:00 or less....which back then was a decent time!!

Anybody remember the race....and who ran it??
(And WON it, of course!! :D )

Bonnie Sons, 1984 outdoor TAC Nationals, San Jose.
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby gh » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:43 pm

perhaps the greatest smart-ass line of my announcing career. As Sons jogged her way up from the pen to the starting line I somberly said "the field for the women's 10,000 is now approaching the starting line"
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Re: low turnout at USATF Indoor?

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:51 am

Of course, this was the time when the women's 10,000 was in its infancy. If I remember right the first UK 10,000 women's champs in 1986 had a rule where if you were lapped you had to drop out, and only 4 were able to finish.
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