how good was Lendore last weekend?


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how good was Lendore last weekend?

Postby gh » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:44 pm

The 45.15 heat was nice stuff at the SEC, but how about his 44.50 anchor? Former T&FN statistician Shawn Price looked at the FAST Indoor Annual and checked for splits and it looks like that's the second-fastest split ever. The sub-45s in the book:

44.4 Darold Williamson (Baylor) 2005

44.50 Deon Lendore (Texas A&M) 2013

44.54 Rondell Bartholomew (SPl) 2011

44.5 — Williamson 2004

44.62 LaShawn Merritt (Tyson AS) 2007

44.74 Jeremy Wariner (US) 2006

44.75 Milton Campbell (US) 1999

44.78 Jaime Baulch (GBR) 1999

44.7 Alleyne Francique (LSU) 2001

44.8 Mitch Potter (Minnesota) 2004

44.91 Tony McQuay (Florida) 2011

44.94 Demetrius Pinder (Tx A&M) 2011

44.9 Jonathan Fortenberry (SCar) 2003
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Re: how good was Lendore last weekend?

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:15 pm

45.15 probably is easily the equal of 44.50 (delta is 0.65, and often ~0.75 is what I have heard [for everyone except for AF :lol: ]. Some differences:

there are many more opportunities to do the open 400;

the 400 is net downhill;

you are probably chasing from behind and possibly drafting more in the relay
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Re: how good was Lendore last weekend?

Postby gh » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:27 pm

actually, gotta remember that while open 400 times indoors are invariably (cuz theyr'e set from an outer lane) aided by a drop in elevation, the relay times ( anchors at least) are run with no such aid.

In any case, it's the relative merit that matters, since all the relay legs are the same. If Lendore's is the second fastest ever, it's worthy of merit.
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Re: how good was Lendore last weekend?

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:51 am

Yes, it merits attention -- speaking of merit - that was an even better 400 on this track.

[as for the drop in the 400, I was trying to highlight the differences between the two events and that drop is one reason that the standard differential between the two times might be smaller than the differential outdoors (since the anchor runs a 'flat' race and the flat 400 runs a downhill race....).
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Re: how good was Lendore last weekend?

Postby Marlow » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:20 am

gh wrote: it looks like that's the second-fastest split ever. The sub-45s in the book:
44.4 Darold Williamson (Baylor) 2005
44.50 Deon Lendore (Texas A&M) 2013

Second? I realize there's inequal errors in hand-timing splits (same amount of reaction time), but don't we treat ALL hand times as at least .1 inferior, leaving Lendore at =1?

Also, I find it increasingly difficult to assess ANY indoor mark as 'remarkable' unless the same outdoor mark would similarly amaze me. A 44.50 outdoor carry is certainly notable, but not extraordinary. I realize some marks, like Coghlan's indoor sub-3:50, are AMAZING, given the detriments of an indoor track, and I also realize that 'compared to' other indoor splits this is at the top (apples vs. apples - Fayetteville's layout swiftness notwithstanding), but I'm just not buying that this mark is tantamount to even the 10th fastest outdoor split (which I assume is in the low-to-mid-43s - I looked for the list and couldn't find it).
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Re: how good was Lendore last weekend?

Postby gh » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:03 am

Marlow wrote:[...
Second? I realize there's inequal errors in hand-timing splits (same amount of reaction time), but don't we treat ALL hand times as at least .1 inferior, leaving Lendore at =1? ....


1. If there's any reaction-time error in a relay it happens only on the first leg.

2. If the race is auto-timed, and the splits have been adjusted so they add to the final time, you can't be adding anything more.
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Re: how good was Lendore last weekend?

Postby Marlow » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:09 am

gh wrote:
Marlow wrote:[...
Second? I realize there's inequal errors in hand-timing splits (same amount of reaction time), but don't we treat ALL hand times as at least .1 inferior, leaving Lendore at =1? ....

1. If there's any reaction-time error in a relay it happens only on the first leg.
2. If the race is auto-timed, and the splits have been adjusted so they add to the final time, you can't be adding anything more.

I get that part, but don't we treat hand-times as also inherently inaccurate, i.e., +/- .1 sec?
An auto 44.50 is always 44.50, but a 44.4h can be 44.3-44.5 . . . ?
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Re: how good was Lendore last weekend?

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:19 pm

The 'standard error' on a hand-timed relay (integer lap) relay leg is smaller than the that on a race start because the reaction time is not the same. [This is why the method for reducing the bias in hand times always seemed to be trading bias and accuracy. The method is to have the timer reacting to the gun with a substantial uncertainty, and then reacting to the finish by not tracking the runner but reacting to crossing the line. And, not only do you have to pay a price in reduced accuracy, but others reading your recorded mark will adjust for the bias inherent in (most) hand timing and put it in, so you get both bias and greater uncertainty.
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Re: how good was Lendore last weekend?

Postby JumboElliott » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:17 pm

Still though, anything under 45.5 indoors is scorching.
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