mary cain at indoor nationals in NM


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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Master Po » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:10 pm

I am really enjoying the rise of this talented young runner. (Ditto for Ajee Wilson, by the way.) Of course, as soon as Cain doesn't live up to someone's expectations, for whatever reason, someone -- some people -- will turn on her. I don't read Letsrun, but I'm sure someone there already has turned on her. You don't really have to "fail," as such -- all you have to do is not meet someone's expectations. I would think every athlete, even in a small niche sport like T&F, needs to be able to deal with this. As soon as Galen Rupp earned a silver medal in London, there were those who immediately pointed out how he failed to win gold, etc. I can think of so many other examples. Cain gives the impression of someone who can handle this sort of bs. But who knows? We will see...maybe in 20 years she'll be getting ready for one more go at the WC. After all, she'll only be 36yo. I hope to be around for that. :)

And while she does give every indication of having the talent to be the USA's best, or among the best, at this distance, I would expect such development to take some time. Salazar does not give any indication as a coach that he is inclined to rush anything. And, at this point Cain is officially a 4:11 1500m runner. I do think she can go faster this year, but there is a lot of distance between being "around 4:10" and "around 4:00."

I am equally impressed, at least, with Ajee Wilson. Let's remind ourselves of her resume in national and international championship meets...

2009 AAU JO 1st
2010 USATF Jr 1st
2011 USA World Youth Trials 1st
2012 USATF/OT semifinal
2012 USATF Jr 1st
2013 USATF Indoor 1st

2010 WJC 5th
2011 WYC gold
2012 WJC gold

While some of these did not have deep competition, each was a 2-round or 3-round championship. Wilson is demonstrating in her own way some real racing sense that is required for success in this event. And while it may seem premature to compare Wilson with the great Kim Gallagher, her place next to Gallagher on the a-t prep list invites the comparison, and at this point her development isn't far off where Gallagher was at a comparable age. Gallagher was about one month past her 18th birthday when she ran her 2:00.07. Wilson was about 2 months past her 18th birthday when she ran her 2:00.91 at the WJC. But -- there is also a lot of distance between being a 2:00-2:02 runner and a 1:58 or faster runner. I think she will get there, but that improvement is likely to be harder than anything she's done so far.

I hope both Cain and Wilson continue to develop along the path of their success so far!
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Master Po wrote:I am really enjoying the rise of this talented young runner. (Ditto for Ajee Wilson, by the way.) Of course, as soon as Cain doesn't live up to someone's expectations, for whatever reason, someone -- some people -- will turn on her. I don't read Letsrun, but I'm sure someone there already has turned on her. You don't really have to "fail," as such -- all you have to do is not meet someone's expectations. I would think every athlete, even in a small niche sport like T&F, needs to be able to deal with this. As soon as Galen Rupp earned a silver medal in London, there were those who immediately pointed out how he failed to win gold, etc. I can think of so many other examples. Cain gives the impression of someone who can handle this sort of bs. But who knows? We will see...maybe in 20 years she'll be getting ready for one more go at the WC. After all, she'll only be 36yo. I hope to be around for that. :)

And while she does give every indication of having the talent to be the USA's best, or among the best, at this distance, I would expect such development to take some time. Salazar does not give any indication as a coach that he is inclined to rush anything. And, at this point Cain is officially a 4:11 1500m runner. I do think she can go faster this year, but there is a lot of distance between being "around 4:10" and "around 4:00."


I can see wanting to take a reserved position in praising Ms. Cain however her 4:28 puts her at something likely at or under 4:09 indoors. While improvement may not be linear and assuming good health I'd have to think that she's going to run 4:06 or so this year and that might be conservative. She's also shown the ability to race which is refreshing.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:33 pm

aaronk wrote:Ebonie Floyd won the Women's 400 meters "A" race in 52.02!!

Mary Cain won the Women's 400 meters "B" race in 58.6!!

And now, for the Women's ONE MILE results......

LOL


Cain jumped the gun using both a rolling start and having a reaction time of 0.00 seconds. If the third 400 had gone as slowly as the first two, then the efforts prior to that last 400 would not have taken much out of her and so a 400 time might almost be expected. Note that some of the distance stars can race faster than Mary can for for 3000m for a full 9000m and then close as fast as she did here without having 1200m at 82/400 right before.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Master Po » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:00 am

Dutra5 wrote:
Master Po wrote:I am really enjoying the rise of this talented young runner. (Ditto for Ajee Wilson, by the way.) Of course, as soon as Cain doesn't live up to someone's expectations, for whatever reason, someone -- some people -- will turn on her. I don't read Letsrun, but I'm sure someone there already has turned on her. You don't really have to "fail," as such -- all you have to do is not meet someone's expectations. I would think every athlete, even in a small niche sport like T&F, needs to be able to deal with this. As soon as Galen Rupp earned a silver medal in London, there were those who immediately pointed out how he failed to win gold, etc. I can think of so many other examples. Cain gives the impression of someone who can handle this sort of bs. But who knows? We will see...maybe in 20 years she'll be getting ready for one more go at the WC. After all, she'll only be 36yo. I hope to be around for that. :)

And while she does give every indication of having the talent to be the USA's best, or among the best, at this distance, I would expect such development to take some time. Salazar does not give any indication as a coach that he is inclined to rush anything. And, at this point Cain is officially a 4:11 1500m runner. I do think she can go faster this year, but there is a lot of distance between being "around 4:10" and "around 4:00."


I can see wanting to take a reserved position in praising Ms. Cain however her 4:28 puts her at something likely at or under 4:09 indoors. While improvement may not be linear and assuming good health I'd have to think that she's going to run 4:06 or so this year and that might be conservative. She's also shown the ability to race which is refreshing.


Dutra -- I completely agree with you. I also feel that she's at a sub-4:10 level now, even though her official times at that distance are 4:11, and thus I would not be surprised to see her get to the 4:06-ish this year. I especially agree w you regarding her race sense. (And I feel that your assessment is itself properly "reserved" in comparison with some that I've heard/read. I was simply trying not to overstate things, but certainly don't want to diminish what's obvious -- she's having a great year so far, and has great potential.)
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:58 am

lloking at cain mile best in 2012 4:39 and in 2013 so far 4:28

suspect she can go faster outdoor based on doing better 800 speed work

her 2011 1500 went from 4:17 to 4:11 in 2012

and 2013 she's 4:11 already

i think 4:08 can be inher future outdoors, based on the quality of race she gets into

if she runs with rowbury, uceny, simpson with rabitts the 4:06 mentioned is possible


her 800 time in 2011 was 2:06 and 2013 was 2:03


the finish sunday promises she can lower her 800

i'd focus cain on world youth injuly

then in 2014 the world juniors

racing with grown women i'd focus on 2015 and bejing, 2 years from now

i think that's morer realistic, visitingwhat she can do with 2 more years of maturation
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Tuariki » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:33 am

26mi235 wrote:
aaronk wrote:Ebonie Floyd won the Women's 400 meters "A" race in 52.02!!

Mary Cain won the Women's 400 meters "B" race in 58.6!!

And now, for the Women's ONE MILE results......

LOL


Cain jumped the gun using both a rolling start and having a reaction time of 0.00 seconds. If the third 400 had gone as slowly as the first two, then the efforts prior to that last 400 would not have taken much out of her and so a 400 time might almost be expected. Note that some of the distance stars can race faster than Mary can for for 3000m for a full 9000m and then close as fast as she did here without having 1200m at 82/400 right before.

Hey 26mi235 !! Do you ever have anything positive to say about anybody? Why is it that you always feel you must find a way to minimise the wonderful achievements of an athlete, this time the amazing young Mary Cain? Why can't you just for once bask in the glory of her great performances rather than try to convince us that she is not really that good.
She is good mate. She is really good.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:28 am

26mi235 wrote:
aaronk wrote:Ebonie Floyd won the Women's 400 meters "A" race in 52.02!!

Mary Cain won the Women's 400 meters "B" race in 58.6!!

And now, for the Women's ONE MILE results......

LOL


Cain jumped the gun using both a rolling start and having a reaction time of 0.00 seconds. If the third 400 had gone as slowly as the first two, then the efforts prior to that last 400 would not have taken much out of her and so a 400 time might almost be expected. Note that some of the distance stars can race faster than Mary can for for 3000m for a full 9000m and then close as fast as she did here without having 1200m at 82/400 right before.




so if you run 9:04 pace for 9k, thats 27:15 and given the wr for 10k is 29:31 running 27:15 with a faster kick is sub 28:15, a wr by more than a full minute the logic above does not apply, cain 3k time is too fast



he cant admit cain is really good, treat her as a 16 year old
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:13 am

some want to use zola budd as the model for mary cain

ok, fine, use the 1500, at age 17 budd ran 4:06.87 Bloemfontein 28 OCT

at age 16 mary cain ran 4:11.01 so cain needs slightly over 4 second improvement which is possible given 2011 to 2012 was 4:17 to 4:11, over a 6 second inprovement

and 2012 miletime was 4:39 and 2013 is 4:28, 11 seconds i think 4 seconds can happen

best youth time of 2012 was 4:06.06 of teferi


while jessica judd did 4:09.93 5th in barcelona one spot ahead of cain

i lloked at all world youth and the chinese from the 1990dominate



zola budd is 9th

glenda reiser is 7th from munich olympics

mary cain is 33rd alltime at age 16
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Marlow » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:34 pm

aaronk wrote:It's nowhere NEAR the "contact" Uhl made

Uhl's mommy would agree with this photo from the front-page gallery . . . :D

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/images ... 55-255.jpg
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:31 pm

Tuariki wrote:Hey 26mi235 !! Do you ever have anything positive to say about anybody?


Cain is great; I just point out the other side of the comparison (we all know it was run at the end of the race and is very impressive and very 'valuable' in the broader scheme), so the RT/moving at the start is useful to keep in mind when looking at the last quarter of the race.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Marlow » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:20 pm

26mi235 wrote:
Tuariki wrote:Hey 26mi235 !! Do you ever have anything positive to say about anybody?

Cain is great; I just point out the other side of the comparison (we all know it was run at the end of the race and is very impressive and very 'valuable' in the broader scheme), so the RT/moving at the start is useful to keep in mind when looking at the last quarter of the race.

Besides which, it was a joke, I say, it was a joke, son!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Eicsl45hN6Q/T ... 30ggae.jpg
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