mary cain at indoor nationals in NM


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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:29 pm

the said 58.6 on tv

when she grows up, what will ber kick really be

2:55 800 then 29 29 last 2 laps

thats how you win''

she showed tactical genius

ajee showed why she did what she did
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby aaronk » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:47 pm

My question is.....why so SLOWWWWWWW??
The guys ran sub-4:00.....3 of them did!!
So if they defied all the altitude myths....like Kip Keino did in Mexico City!....why weren't the other long races faster than 8:07 (men's 3K), 9:23 (women's 3K), or that SLUGgish paced women's mile??

I'm SUPER happy Mary won, but GEEZ!, 5:05??

What were the other gals thinking....especially Moser and Bowman Brown. who had LOST to Cain's kick before??
They GAVE that race to Cain!!

With a 58.6 last 400, I'm now predicting she can beat ANY United States runner now!
Including Simpson, Uceny et al!
I'm certain that, if it had been necessary, she could have run FASTER that last quarter....maybe 57 or 56!!

I discount her announced PR of 55.
I'm guessing she's capable of 53 now...and will be capable of 52 eventually.....just like Slaney.

And I'm ALSO predicting she WILL be....barring the unforeseen.....she WILL be on our WC team THIS year!!

And she just might be # ONE American!!
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby aaronk » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:31 pm

Just saw the complete video.....on RunnerSpace!
Watched it 3 times....so far....and here's what I saw:

Cain leads right away, but keeps it slow, at 40.7 for the first 209 meters. (First "lap" measurement INCLUDED the extra 9 meters! All other laps appeared to be for each 200.)

They slow it down to 85 for the first 409, no one really leading, but Cain up front in a row with 2-3 others.

Cain temporarily falls back, but just a bit, hitting 609 in about 2:09.

Mecke (Who IS she?? Never heard of her before!) goes into the lead, but it's still VERY slow, as they run (WALK??) another 46, hitting 809 in 2:55. That's 5:50 mile pace!!

Everyone is bunched....like in a bike race!
You're just waiting for someone to make the first move!!

Pace stays pretty sedate for another 200, as they hit 1009 in 3:34, but you can sense they're ready to RUN!!

Mecke makes the first move, but Cain matches it, and then some!
It's all Cain's show from here on.

She runs 32 for her next 200.
But Mecke and Moser stay close.

At one point, just as they're coming off the curve, at about 1250, Mecke APPEARS to touch Cain's back.
It's nowhere NEAR the "contact" Uhl made with Reilly in the last part of the 3K, but when the "touch" (??) is made, Cain RIPS ahead...and there's an INSTANT 3 meter gap, Cain in front.

She runs 29.27 and 29.34....clearly in the lead, and clearly the winner!!....her last two laps.

After the race, as she's walking back, there are NO hugs, NO back slaps or hand shaking....not even EYE contact!!!

Were they PISSED at her...having been beaten.....no, HUMILIATED!!....by a 16 year old CHILD??

Was MARY being the arrogant one....the unfriendly one...as she's NEVER been post-race??

Why did no one congratulate her??

FANTASTIC video!!
Check it out!
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:49 pm

aaronk wrote:Just saw the complete video.....on RunnerSpace!
Watched it 3 times....so far....and here's what I saw:

Cain leads right away, but keeps it slow, at 40.7 for the first 209 meters. (First "lap" measurement INCLUDED the extra 9 meters! All other laps appeared to be for each 200.)

They slow it down to 85 for the first 409, no one really leading, but Cain up front in a row with 2-3 others.

Cain temporarily falls back, but just a bit, hitting 609 in about 2:09.

Mecke (Who IS she?? Never heard of her before!) goes into the lead, but it's still VERY slow, as they run (WALK??) another 46, hitting 809 in 2:55. That's 5:50 mile pace!!

Everyone is bunched....like in a bike race!
You're just waiting for someone to make the first move!!

Pace stays pretty sedate for another 200, as they hit 1009 in 3:34, but you can sense they're ready to RUN!!

Mecke makes the first move, but Cain matches it, and then some!
It's all Cain's show from here on.

She runs 32 for her next 200.
But Mecke and Moser stay close.

At one point, just as they're coming off the curve, at about 1250, Mecke APPEARS to touch Cain's back.
It's nowhere NEAR the "contact" Uhl made with Reilly in the last part of the 3K, but when the "touch" (??) is made, Cain RIPS ahead...and there's an INSTANT 3 meter gap, Cain in front.

She runs 29.27 and 29.34....clearly in the lead, and clearly the winner!!....her last two laps.

After the race, as she's walking back, there are NO hugs, NO back slaps or hand shaking....not even EYE contact!!!

Were they PISSED at her...having been beaten.....no, HUMILIATED!!....by a 16 year old CHILD??

Was MARY being the arrogant one....the unfriendly one...as she's NEVER been post-race??

Why did no one congratulate her??

FANTASTIC video!!
Check it out!


Thanks for the play by play for a race I'd imagine you are the only one who did not watch live who is participating in this particular subject matter.

The reaction after the race is just noise. Why didn't Jeremy Wariner immediately rush over to see if Batman was ok?
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:53 pm

aaronk wrote:
With a 58.6 last 400, I'm now predicting she can beat ANY United States runner now!
Including Simpson, Uceny et al!
I'm certain that, if it had been necessary, she could have run FASTER that last quarter....maybe 57 or 56!!


We don't know if she can kick with the likes of Uceny and Simpson off a low 4:00 pace. She should be eventually but she'd need to be able to run close to 4:00 to kick off that kind of pace. That might be a bit much right now.

She probably is in the top 3 or 4 Americans right now pending on who shows up healthy Outdoors.

She won a race she should have won which is a good thing.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Master Po » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:58 pm

Aaronk,
Thanks for pointing out the video - just watched it - great run - great acceleration in the last 400. As for your question about post-race interaction, I have no idea but I'll ofer this: after the finish, when Cain walks away toward the infield, to be interviewed I guess, most of the other runners were still clutching their knees. (Also, they aren't Canadian like Sheila Reid, and so just are not as nice...) :)
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby aaronk » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:23 pm

A few corrections to my race description above:

Time was 83.8 first 409, not 85, with Cain and Moser in front.
At 609, it was Moser barely ahead of Cain., in about 2:09 or 2:10.
At 809, it was Vaughn, not Mecke, who led.
At 1009, Vaughn still led, but by inches, with Moser and Bowman-Brown following.
They passed 1209 in 4:06.8.
At about 1260--mid-curve--Cain pulls ahead for good.
And there was NO TOUCH by anyone....so I was mistaken.
But when I THOUGHT I'd seen the "touch" was when Cain opened that INSTANT 3 meter gap!

Guess I was too excited earlier to note the correct details!!

And no, I did NOT see the race on TV.
I don't have my TV working, so I "saw"....or rather HEARD.....the race on that "Live Webcast"!!

So the video was the first time I SAW the race!!
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby kuha » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:00 pm

Pretty unusual half mile splits here: 2:55 and 2:10.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Master Po » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:42 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
With a 58.6 last 400, I'm now predicting she can beat ANY United States runner now!
Including Simpson, Uceny et al!
I'm certain that, if it had been necessary, she could have run FASTER that last quarter....maybe 57 or 56!!


We don't know if she can kick with the likes of Uceny and Simpson off a low 4:00 pace. She should be eventually but she'd need to be able to run close to 4:00 to kick off that kind of pace. That might be a bit much right now.

She probably is in the top 3 or 4 Americans right now pending on who shows up healthy Outdoors.

She won a race she should have won which is a good thing.


Agree with most of what you stated here, except for the last statment. I'm probably just dense, but I did not think prior to the event that this was a race that she should win. I thought she could, maybe, win, but she was only superior to two of the other six runners: Mecke (mile PB 4:39, 2013) and Koch (1500 PB 4:18, 2012). As for the other four, they have clearly superior resumes:

Moser 4:03 PB and 4:09 from last year. 2006 WIC finalist, other WC too, and multiple USATF championships, iirc.

Felnagle 4:08 PB last year, 7th at OT and iirc also NCAA 1500 m champion

Vaughn 4:08 PB last year & ran at 2012 WIC (but did not advance to final, irrc)

Bowman Brown 4:05 PB & 4:08 last year, 6th at OT, 8th at 2010 WIC, & iirc also NCAA champion indoors.

That's four very good (in the context of USA) 1500/mile runners with success at the national level (NCAA and/or USATF) and experience at international championships (WC and/or WIC).

So, I actually thought any of these four might win, and probably would have picked any one of them over Cain had I been required to make a prediction. As it turned out, I was very impressed with the way she competed with this group of much much more experienced runners, each of whom has run faster than Cain on more than one occasion, and each of whom has participated in multiple championships (e.g., NCAA, USATF and WC/WIC).
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:13 pm

kuha wrote:Pretty unusual half mile splits here: 2:55 and 2:10.

I guessing that a lot of 800 runners, and perhaps even a few 400 runners, wish they would have been in that race.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm

Master Po wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
With a 58.6 last 400, I'm now predicting she can beat ANY United States runner now!
Including Simpson, Uceny et al!
I'm certain that, if it had been necessary, she could have run FASTER that last quarter....maybe 57 or 56!!


We don't know if she can kick with the likes of Uceny and Simpson off a low 4:00 pace. She should be eventually but she'd need to be able to run close to 4:00 to kick off that kind of pace. That might be a bit much right now.

She probably is in the top 3 or 4 Americans right now pending on who shows up healthy Outdoors.

She won a race she should have won which is a good thing.


Agree with most of what you stated here, except for the last statment. I'm probably just dense, but I did not think prior to the event that this was a race that she should win. I thought she could, maybe, win, but she was only superior to two of the other six runners: Mecke (mile PB 4:39, 2013) and Koch (1500 PB 4:18, 2012). As for the other four, they have clearly superior resumes:

Moser 4:03 PB and 4:09 from last year. 2006 WIC finalist, other WC too, and multiple USATF championships, iirc.

Felnagle 4:08 PB last year, 7th at OT and iirc also NCAA 1500 m champion

Vaughn 4:08 PB last year & ran at 2012 WIC (but did not advance to final, irrc)

Bowman Brown 4:05 PB & 4:08 last year, 6th at OT, 8th at 2010 WIC, & iirc also NCAA champion indoors.

That's four very good (in the context of USA) 1500/mile runners with success at the national


Cain's been at a higher level this year. I was pretty comfortable she would win particularly since she has demonstrated the best close of all of them.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:45 am

http://www.runnerspace.com/video.php?video_id=80889

here's the video aaronk watched

10 year project they said

when cain grows up, what will her real kick be??

the elite of elite will go 55 , cain needs to be in that class by then

let cain do worldyouth and i like her chances

aregawi or dibaba sub 4 is way too fast and they have their big kicks to deal with
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:55 am

http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calendar/ ... bcast.aspx

you can listen to cain interview afterher win




go to interview and it's the 5th one down 1.23 in length
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby unclezadok » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:03 am

I see that Sarah Baxter opened with a 10:35 today. I wonder when the Rematch will occur. Their strengths are different of course, which just makes it that much more interesting.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:52 am

sarah baxterdid 10.35 in 3k 3200 or 2 mile??

she has talent but sub 60 400 is tough for her
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby aaronk » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:54 am

unclezadok wrote:I see that Sarah Baxter opened with a 10:35 today. I wonder when the Rematch will occur. Their strengths are different of course, which just makes it that much more interesting.


Interesting.
What were the specifics of Baxter's run?
Competition?
Splits?
Was it mainly a test run, to gauge her fitness?

If she runs NB next week, I imagine she'll go MUCH faster!!

More questions:

Was her 16:00 Mt SAC run OVERrated??
Just what does that mark translate to on the track?
Could she break 16:00 in a TRACK 5K??

(If she can break 16:00 on a track, then she could run about 10:00 or faster for two miles!!)
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:08 am

i see it was 3200

finn and frazier did slightly better 3200

guess people will look at the 5:10 mile baxter did in thesame meet and compare it to the 5:05 mile cain did

i'm all for young talent emerging, to add to wilson and cain

dont think salazar has the desire to get in a pissing contest with other hs kids

i watched the 17 year old icelandic 800meter runner and she looks more of an 800 meter threat
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:13 am

Here is a post from someone at that race; note she doubled also. I do not mean to indicate that you were indicating a problem for Baxter, just noting the race.

First of all, I suspect the OP is a troll hoping Baxter would get bashed.

So lets not take this out of context.....I was at the meet. She literally JOGGED both races. Her coach only lets her go all out for the big meets. Last Year she ran a 10:44 3200 the week before she ran the 10:08 at Arcadia. This year in XC she ran 16:12 on an all flat course and later when on to run 16 flat on the hilliest course in the nation. This conservative "holding her back" approach taken by her coach is in my opinion a large reason for her success.

Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5071349#ixzz2Majb4rcm

By the way, Cain has previously done better on the track than in cross country. Part of that is the distances involved, although her 3000 indicates a better long performance now. I wonder if part of it is also things like balance and the ability to run on varying surfaces, etc. Straightening out her running issues will probably help her run better on XC courses, and her speed should help her handle the pace/effort variation that you face in XC. We will have to see what she does next year -- will she even run high school XC. I think that there is probably more reason to do so than for track this year, as she faces stiffer competition and the Footlocker race (she should skip the NXN 'race') is historically important.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby 4:24-miler » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:46 am

I'm sorry but as a track fan since 1980 that women's 1500m race was utter garbage. 5:05.68? Seriously?! Yuk. That wasn't a race, it was tempo run. Even the announcer was embarrassed when he said, "This is what we would call a tactical race." Gee, really? Good to see Mary Cain do well and win the race. But all this talk about Cain being one of the top women's 1500m runners in the US right is way too premature. I'll wait until Cain beats Simpson, Uceny, Rowbury, Pierce, Schmidt, etc outdoors head-to-head..
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Marlow » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:08 am

4:24-miler wrote:all this talk about Cain being one of the top women's 1500m runners in the US right is way too premature. I'll wait until Cain beats Simpson, Uceny, Rowbury, Pierce, Schmidt, etc outdoors head-to-head..

Too late. Her times and this kick already makes her "one of the best".
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:22 am

agree cain is not the top female miler in america

just happens to have the fastesttime

if the big girls had shown up to run, either would have beaten cain

but they have bigger fish to fry

leaving cain the national champion in the mile

in a race that counted i'b bet on rowbury when she races against an american

but in moscow, aregawi or g dibaba would be my choices
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby aaronk » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:23 am

Ebonie Floyd won the Women's 400 meters "A" race in 52.02!!

Mary Cain won the Women's 400 meters "B" race in 58.6!!

And now, for the Women's ONE MILE results......

LOL
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby 4:24-miler » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:45 am

Marlow wrote:
4:24-miler wrote:all this talk about Cain being one of the top women's 1500m runners in the US right is way too premature. I'll wait until Cain beats Simpson, Uceny, Rowbury, Pierce, Schmidt, etc outdoors head-to-head..

Too late. Her times and this kick already makes her "one of the best".

We shall see.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:46 am

look at the numbers

final half in 2:10

only 10 hs have run sub 2:10

and with the 58 final 400, only 100 hs have run that fast

cain isn't world class miler yet, but she's close enough for me
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby odelltrclan » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:07 pm

4:24-miler wrote:I'm sorry but as a track fan since 1980 that women's 1500m race was utter garbage. 5:05.68? Seriously?! Yuk. That wasn't a race, it was tempo run. Even the announcer was embarrassed when he said, "This is what we would call a tactical race." Gee, really? Good to see Mary Cain do well and win the race. But all this talk about Cain being one of the top women's 1500m runners in the US right is way too premature. I'll wait until Cain beats Simpson, Uceny, Rowbury, Pierce, Schmidt, etc outdoors head-to-head..


What do you define as "one of the best"? top 3, top 5, top 10? She is already mixing it up with some notable runners and winning. She is a national champion at age 16, though the field did not include many notables. But the truth is, that Uceny, Simpson, Rowbury, all would struggle to run a 58+ last 400 under the same conditions in altitude, if they could do it at all. So while she has yet to prove she can hang with the best at a fast pace, she clearly served notice she is going to have to be reckoned with in a tactical race, and that alone makes her "one of the best" in my opinion. I think you would be hard pressed to find 5 or 6 U.S. women who could beat her under any conditions, so, lets just say she is top 10. Would that be "one of the best"?

The sky is the limit for her. Come the outdoor season it will be fun to watch her mix it up with the best.
Last edited by odelltrclan on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:13 pm

4:24-miler wrote:
Marlow wrote:
4:24-miler wrote:all this talk about Cain being one of the top women's 1500m runners in the US right is way too premature. I'll wait until Cain beats Simpson, Uceny, Rowbury, Pierce, Schmidt, etc outdoors head-to-head..

Too late. Her times and this kick already makes her "one of the best".

We shall see.




4:28 is quite a time to discount

her 4"11 was23rd rated time before salazar got involved
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby aaronk » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:19 pm

Here's my DREAM of a perfect OUTdoor season for Mary:

Mt SAC: In her first outdoor race of 2013, she runs 15:28.62 for 5000 meters, shattering Emily Sisson's 15:48.91 for a new HSR. She finishes 2nd behind Shannon Rowbury's 15:23.50, despite running her final 400 in 60.45!!

Penn: In her return to the HS Girl's one mile, Cain runs her last lap in 57.23 for a final time of 4:33.58, easily beating Erin Finn, who runs 4:38.10.

Stanford Cardinal: In a special Women's two mile race, she runs 9:18.98 for two miles, timed enroute at 3000 meters in 8:46.15, shattering two HSR's....finally removing Lynn Bjorklund's venerable 9:08.6 from 1975 from the books!! Cain wins this race, as the top 1500 women run the mile.

Prefontaine: She runs the one mile in 4:24.00, passing 1500 meters in 4:07.83, for two more HSR's. But she finishes only 3rd behind Morgan Uceny's 4:22.01 and Jenny Simpson's 4:22.36.

USATF (WC Trials): Cain makes the WC team, finishing 2nd in 4:07.89 over 1500 meters. Morgan Uceny wins it in 4:07.11, with CWT second in 4:07.34.

World Youth: Cain runs 1:59.93 for 800 meters, breaking Kim Gallagher's HSR friom 1982!!
She wins the race, second place being 2:00.26.

WC: Cain makes it to the final, running her semi in 4:08.55, in what is described as a "tactical" race. She runs her final 400 in 57.04, her last 200 in 27.23!! She finishes 7th in the final, running 4:05.02 for another HSR!!

Aaaaah, sweet dreams!!!
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:29 pm

http://articles.philly.com/2012-04-27/s ... -announcer

i think world youth is the primary event for cain outdoor
isn't cain taking a break now going on vacation, if rupp and fatrah deserved a break so has mary cain

i know the hs coach who is in charge of the girlsmile and 3k, which are on thursday

there is an open womens mileonsatruday, which might beselected over the hs events

may 25 diamond league meet ny does have a mile

i see cain squeezing in 800 in prep for ukraine to sharpen her speed

those 200 and 400 final laps are a bit fast

i think salazar showed yesterday, winning counts more than fast times

i think womens 1500 team for moscow will be uceny rowbury pierce, doesnt simpson get the auto for winning in daegu


ukraine trials in illionoise june 25,26

moscow trails in desmoines june 20-23

i think des moines is bad to do before world youth trials
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby 4:24-miler » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:38 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
4:24-miler wrote:I'm sorry but as a track fan since 1980 that women's 1500m race was utter garbage. 5:05.68? Seriously?! Yuk. That wasn't a race, it was tempo run. Even the announcer was embarrassed when he said, "This is what we would call a tactical race." Gee, really? Good to see Mary Cain do well and win the race. But all this talk about Cain being one of the top women's 1500m runners in the US right is way too premature. I'll wait until Cain beats Simpson, Uceny, Rowbury, Pierce, Schmidt, etc outdoors head-to-head..


What do you define as "one of the best"? top 3, top 5, top 10? She is already mixing it up with some notable runners and winning. She is a national champion at age 16, though the field did not include many notables. But the truth is, that Uceny, Simpson, Rowbury, all would struggle to run a 58+ last 400 under the same conditions in altitude, if they could do it at all. So while she has yet to prove she can hang with the best at a fast pace, she clearly served notice she is going to have to be reckoned with in a tactical race, and that alone makes her "one of the best" in my opinion. I think you would be hard pressed to find 5 or 6 U.S. women who could beat her under any conditions, so, lets just say she is top 10. Would that be "one of the best"?

The sky is the limit for her. Come the outdoor season it will be fun to watch her mix it up with the best.

Like I said "we shall see". People are already anointing her as "the queen". The moment Cain struggles or starts having injuries people will turn on her. Just like Alan Webb. Remember him? He was supposed to break world records and win WC/Olympic titles. It didn't work out that way, did it? I'll wait until Cain actually beat America's best lady 1500m runners outdoors when it counts before I join the bandwagon. I do hope Cain does well those outdoor season.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:43 pm

Mary Cain, women’s mile champion: ”I wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t fun. We were hanging out at dinner and having a lot of good laughs, and I just love it”
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Master Po » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:10 pm

I am really enjoying the rise of this talented young runner. (Ditto for Ajee Wilson, by the way.) Of course, as soon as Cain doesn't live up to someone's expectations, for whatever reason, someone -- some people -- will turn on her. I don't read Letsrun, but I'm sure someone there already has turned on her. You don't really have to "fail," as such -- all you have to do is not meet someone's expectations. I would think every athlete, even in a small niche sport like T&F, needs to be able to deal with this. As soon as Galen Rupp earned a silver medal in London, there were those who immediately pointed out how he failed to win gold, etc. I can think of so many other examples. Cain gives the impression of someone who can handle this sort of bs. But who knows? We will see...maybe in 20 years she'll be getting ready for one more go at the WC. After all, she'll only be 36yo. I hope to be around for that. :)

And while she does give every indication of having the talent to be the USA's best, or among the best, at this distance, I would expect such development to take some time. Salazar does not give any indication as a coach that he is inclined to rush anything. And, at this point Cain is officially a 4:11 1500m runner. I do think she can go faster this year, but there is a lot of distance between being "around 4:10" and "around 4:00."

I am equally impressed, at least, with Ajee Wilson. Let's remind ourselves of her resume in national and international championship meets...

2009 AAU JO 1st
2010 USATF Jr 1st
2011 USA World Youth Trials 1st
2012 USATF/OT semifinal
2012 USATF Jr 1st
2013 USATF Indoor 1st

2010 WJC 5th
2011 WYC gold
2012 WJC gold

While some of these did not have deep competition, each was a 2-round or 3-round championship. Wilson is demonstrating in her own way some real racing sense that is required for success in this event. And while it may seem premature to compare Wilson with the great Kim Gallagher, her place next to Gallagher on the a-t prep list invites the comparison, and at this point her development isn't far off where Gallagher was at a comparable age. Gallagher was about one month past her 18th birthday when she ran her 2:00.07. Wilson was about 2 months past her 18th birthday when she ran her 2:00.91 at the WJC. But -- there is also a lot of distance between being a 2:00-2:02 runner and a 1:58 or faster runner. I think she will get there, but that improvement is likely to be harder than anything she's done so far.

I hope both Cain and Wilson continue to develop along the path of their success so far!
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Master Po wrote:I am really enjoying the rise of this talented young runner. (Ditto for Ajee Wilson, by the way.) Of course, as soon as Cain doesn't live up to someone's expectations, for whatever reason, someone -- some people -- will turn on her. I don't read Letsrun, but I'm sure someone there already has turned on her. You don't really have to "fail," as such -- all you have to do is not meet someone's expectations. I would think every athlete, even in a small niche sport like T&F, needs to be able to deal with this. As soon as Galen Rupp earned a silver medal in London, there were those who immediately pointed out how he failed to win gold, etc. I can think of so many other examples. Cain gives the impression of someone who can handle this sort of bs. But who knows? We will see...maybe in 20 years she'll be getting ready for one more go at the WC. After all, she'll only be 36yo. I hope to be around for that. :)

And while she does give every indication of having the talent to be the USA's best, or among the best, at this distance, I would expect such development to take some time. Salazar does not give any indication as a coach that he is inclined to rush anything. And, at this point Cain is officially a 4:11 1500m runner. I do think she can go faster this year, but there is a lot of distance between being "around 4:10" and "around 4:00."


I can see wanting to take a reserved position in praising Ms. Cain however her 4:28 puts her at something likely at or under 4:09 indoors. While improvement may not be linear and assuming good health I'd have to think that she's going to run 4:06 or so this year and that might be conservative. She's also shown the ability to race which is refreshing.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:33 pm

aaronk wrote:Ebonie Floyd won the Women's 400 meters "A" race in 52.02!!

Mary Cain won the Women's 400 meters "B" race in 58.6!!

And now, for the Women's ONE MILE results......

LOL


Cain jumped the gun using both a rolling start and having a reaction time of 0.00 seconds. If the third 400 had gone as slowly as the first two, then the efforts prior to that last 400 would not have taken much out of her and so a 400 time might almost be expected. Note that some of the distance stars can race faster than Mary can for for 3000m for a full 9000m and then close as fast as she did here without having 1200m at 82/400 right before.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Master Po » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:00 am

Dutra5 wrote:
Master Po wrote:I am really enjoying the rise of this talented young runner. (Ditto for Ajee Wilson, by the way.) Of course, as soon as Cain doesn't live up to someone's expectations, for whatever reason, someone -- some people -- will turn on her. I don't read Letsrun, but I'm sure someone there already has turned on her. You don't really have to "fail," as such -- all you have to do is not meet someone's expectations. I would think every athlete, even in a small niche sport like T&F, needs to be able to deal with this. As soon as Galen Rupp earned a silver medal in London, there were those who immediately pointed out how he failed to win gold, etc. I can think of so many other examples. Cain gives the impression of someone who can handle this sort of bs. But who knows? We will see...maybe in 20 years she'll be getting ready for one more go at the WC. After all, she'll only be 36yo. I hope to be around for that. :)

And while she does give every indication of having the talent to be the USA's best, or among the best, at this distance, I would expect such development to take some time. Salazar does not give any indication as a coach that he is inclined to rush anything. And, at this point Cain is officially a 4:11 1500m runner. I do think she can go faster this year, but there is a lot of distance between being "around 4:10" and "around 4:00."


I can see wanting to take a reserved position in praising Ms. Cain however her 4:28 puts her at something likely at or under 4:09 indoors. While improvement may not be linear and assuming good health I'd have to think that she's going to run 4:06 or so this year and that might be conservative. She's also shown the ability to race which is refreshing.


Dutra -- I completely agree with you. I also feel that she's at a sub-4:10 level now, even though her official times at that distance are 4:11, and thus I would not be surprised to see her get to the 4:06-ish this year. I especially agree w you regarding her race sense. (And I feel that your assessment is itself properly "reserved" in comparison with some that I've heard/read. I was simply trying not to overstate things, but certainly don't want to diminish what's obvious -- she's having a great year so far, and has great potential.)
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:58 am

lloking at cain mile best in 2012 4:39 and in 2013 so far 4:28

suspect she can go faster outdoor based on doing better 800 speed work

her 2011 1500 went from 4:17 to 4:11 in 2012

and 2013 she's 4:11 already

i think 4:08 can be inher future outdoors, based on the quality of race she gets into

if she runs with rowbury, uceny, simpson with rabitts the 4:06 mentioned is possible


her 800 time in 2011 was 2:06 and 2013 was 2:03


the finish sunday promises she can lower her 800

i'd focus cain on world youth injuly

then in 2014 the world juniors

racing with grown women i'd focus on 2015 and bejing, 2 years from now

i think that's morer realistic, visitingwhat she can do with 2 more years of maturation
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Tuariki » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:33 am

26mi235 wrote:
aaronk wrote:Ebonie Floyd won the Women's 400 meters "A" race in 52.02!!

Mary Cain won the Women's 400 meters "B" race in 58.6!!

And now, for the Women's ONE MILE results......

LOL


Cain jumped the gun using both a rolling start and having a reaction time of 0.00 seconds. If the third 400 had gone as slowly as the first two, then the efforts prior to that last 400 would not have taken much out of her and so a 400 time might almost be expected. Note that some of the distance stars can race faster than Mary can for for 3000m for a full 9000m and then close as fast as she did here without having 1200m at 82/400 right before.

Hey 26mi235 !! Do you ever have anything positive to say about anybody? Why is it that you always feel you must find a way to minimise the wonderful achievements of an athlete, this time the amazing young Mary Cain? Why can't you just for once bask in the glory of her great performances rather than try to convince us that she is not really that good.
She is good mate. She is really good.
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:28 am

26mi235 wrote:
aaronk wrote:Ebonie Floyd won the Women's 400 meters "A" race in 52.02!!

Mary Cain won the Women's 400 meters "B" race in 58.6!!

And now, for the Women's ONE MILE results......

LOL


Cain jumped the gun using both a rolling start and having a reaction time of 0.00 seconds. If the third 400 had gone as slowly as the first two, then the efforts prior to that last 400 would not have taken much out of her and so a 400 time might almost be expected. Note that some of the distance stars can race faster than Mary can for for 3000m for a full 9000m and then close as fast as she did here without having 1200m at 82/400 right before.




so if you run 9:04 pace for 9k, thats 27:15 and given the wr for 10k is 29:31 running 27:15 with a faster kick is sub 28:15, a wr by more than a full minute the logic above does not apply, cain 3k time is too fast



he cant admit cain is really good, treat her as a 16 year old
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:13 am

some want to use zola budd as the model for mary cain

ok, fine, use the 1500, at age 17 budd ran 4:06.87 Bloemfontein 28 OCT

at age 16 mary cain ran 4:11.01 so cain needs slightly over 4 second improvement which is possible given 2011 to 2012 was 4:17 to 4:11, over a 6 second inprovement

and 2012 miletime was 4:39 and 2013 is 4:28, 11 seconds i think 4 seconds can happen

best youth time of 2012 was 4:06.06 of teferi


while jessica judd did 4:09.93 5th in barcelona one spot ahead of cain

i lloked at all world youth and the chinese from the 1990dominate



zola budd is 9th

glenda reiser is 7th from munich olympics

mary cain is 33rd alltime at age 16
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby Marlow » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:34 pm

aaronk wrote:It's nowhere NEAR the "contact" Uhl made

Uhl's mommy would agree with this photo from the front-page gallery . . . :D

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/images ... 55-255.jpg
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Re: mary cain at indoor nationals in NM

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:31 pm

Tuariki wrote:Hey 26mi235 !! Do you ever have anything positive to say about anybody?


Cain is great; I just point out the other side of the comparison (we all know it was run at the end of the race and is very impressive and very 'valuable' in the broader scheme), so the RT/moving at the start is useful to keep in mind when looking at the last quarter of the race.
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