USA Multis

[unclezadok]

In Jeremy Taiwo's 6156 heptathlon last weekend, he had a 13-7 vault. His PR is 15-11. A 4.80 would have given him 6296, if I have calculated correctly. It appears he will not have a throwing weakness. He did 46-6 last weekend, outdoor discus and Jav PRs are 137 and 176. He has had Tommy John surgery, but then so did Trey Hardee. If he takes it slowly (!) for the next few weeks, he should end up a national team contender (there is that one spot open). In any event, the NCAA heptathlon should again be very interesting.

[olorin]

In Jeremy Taiwo's 6156 heptathlon last weekend, he had a 13-7 vault. His PR is 15-11. A 4.80 would have given him 6296, if I have calculated correctly. It appears he will not have a throwing weakness. He did 46-6 last weekend, outdoor discus and Jav PRs are 137 and 176. He has had Tommy John surgery, but then so did Trey Hardee. If he takes it slowly (!) for the next few weeks, he should end up a national team contender (there is that one spot open). In any event, the NCAA heptathlon should again be very interesting.

His high Jump (2.25) is a WR for Heptathlon and only 2 cm from the WR in decathlon.

As for his decathlon potential, I can see him go:
10.8 (similar to 7.02), 7.50, 14.20, 2.25, 48.50, 14.25, 44.00, 4.80, 60.00, 4.18 for a score of ~8,600 in this or the next summer.

I think that if he will remain healthy and don't burn himself in the collegian season he has a fair chance to make it to Moscow as there are 2 spots to fight for (Hardee get a free ticket)

[unclezadok]

On the Kevin Lazas front, looking at the U Arkansas website I see that he vaulted 17-9 (!) at the Tyson Invitational.

[olorin]

On the Kevin Lazas front, looking at the U Arkansas website I see that he vaulted 17-9 (!) at the Tyson Invitational.

I think that the 5.41 (17-9 in your lenguage) is a mistake.
Looking at the IAAF site the hight is 5.11
Also if you calculate his individual scores (see http://www.all-athletics.com/node/421003) then 5.11 is consistent with his total score and not 5.41.
Regardless, a good performance from him with HJ and SP that are better than his outdoor marks.

Finally - can you take Jeremy Taiwo out of the title so we can discuss US Multis in one thread?

[26mi235]

Jay Cato went out at 5.30 today at the Wisconsin meet; he was clean until then but had already gone 7.5x in the LJ and 7.0x in the 60.

Even without Beach (I think he is out) there are a number of strong contenders for the Hept at NCAAs (and the women's Pent as well).

[Dave]

Jay Cato went out at 5.30 today at the Wisconsin meet; he was clean until then but had already gone 7.5x in the LJ and 7.0x in the 60.

Even without Beach (I think he is out) there are a number of strong contenders for the Hept at NCAAs (and the women's Pent as well).

What happened to Beach?

[polevaultpower]

On the Kevin Lazas front, looking at the U Arkansas website I see that he vaulted 17-9 (!) at the Tyson Invitational.

I think that the 5.41 (17-9 in your lenguage) is a mistake.
Looking at the IAAF site the hight is 5.11
Also if you calculate his individual scores (see http://www.all-athletics.com/node/421003) then 5.11 is consistent with his total score and not 5.41.
Regardless, a good performance from him with HJ and SP that are better than his outdoor marks.

Lazas seriously jumped 5.41 at Tyson: http://www.flashresults.com/2013_Meets/ ... 08F068.htm

Never rely on the IAAF to have the very most current marks...

[olorin]

On the Kevin Lazas front, looking at the U Arkansas website I see that he vaulted 17-9 (!) at the Tyson Invitational.

I think that the 5.41 (17-9 in your lenguage) is a mistake.
Looking at the IAAF site the hight is 5.11
Also if you calculate his individual scores (see http://www.all-athletics.com/node/421003) then 5.11 is consistent with his total score and not 5.41.
Regardless, a good performance from him with HJ and SP that are better than his outdoor marks.

Lazas seriously jumped 5.41 at Tyson: http://www.flashresults.com/2013_Meets/ ... 08F068.htm

Never rely on the IAAF to have the very most current marks...

Glad to be wrong! I mixed between his perfromance during the heptathlon (5.11) in the 25/01 and his perfromance in the individual event in the 09/02 (both in Feyetteville).

Both him and Taiwo should be able to get the "A" standard this summer.
He is still very young (21) so huge potential for the future.

[unclezadok]

Jay Cato went out at 5.30 today at the Wisconsin meet; he was clean until then but had already gone 7.5x in the LJ and 7.0x in the 60.

Even without Beach (I think he is out) there are a number of strong contenders for the Hept at NCAAs (and the women's Pent as well).

What happened to Beach?

Beach is red-shirting from Duke. Perhaps he will go to the USTAF heptathlon.

[olorin]

Jay Cato went out at 5.30 today at the Wisconsin meet; he was clean until then but had already gone 7.5x in the LJ and 7.0x in the 60.

Even without Beach (I think he is out) there are a number of strong contenders for the Hept at NCAAs (and the women's Pent as well).

What happened to Beach?

Beach is red-shirting from Duke. Perhaps he will go to the USTAF heptathlon.

Beach only 12.33 in SP over the weekend.
If he will not improve his throws very soon I am afarid he does not have a future in T&F.
Hope he will come around because after Eugene he became one of my favorite athletes.

[DecFan]

Beach only 12.33 in SP over the weekend.
If he will not improve his throws very soon I am afarid he does not have a future in T&F.
Hope he will come around because after Eugene he became one of my favorite athletes.

I had been under the impression that Beach was stagnating, and that Duke may not have been a good choice for him. But I just looked over his stats, and they don't bear out that conclusion. Eight of his event PRs are from 2012; the other two are from 2011. He certainly is improving.

One issue has been that his HJ performance in recent decathlons has been well off heights he is jumping in open competition. PR 2.07, last four decathlons 1.96, 1.90, 1.88, 1.87. The difference between 1.96 and 2.07 is 100 points.

Nevertheless, olorin, you're clearly right that he needs to improve his throws (without having a major negative impact on his other events - the decathlon difficulty!) over the next couple of years if he is going to be a threat internationally. His PRs presently sum to about 8300; I can see another 30 points or so in each of the hurdles, PV, and LJ, but the big point improvements will have to come in the throws. Even 13.8 SP, 53 JT and 42 DT would add 180 points to his total.

[unclezadok]

Beach only 12.33 in SP over the weekend.
If he will not improve his throws very soon I am afarid he does not have a future in T&F.
Hope he will come around because after Eugene he became one of my favorite athletes.

I had been under the impression that Beach was stagnating, and that Duke may not have been a good choice for him. But I just looked over his stats, and they don't bear out that conclusion. Eight of his event PRs are from 2012; the other two are from 2011. He certainly is improving.

One issue has been that his HJ performance in recent decathlons has been well off heights he is jumping in open competition. PR 2.07, last four decathlons 1.96, 1.90, 1.88, 1.87. The difference between 1.96 and 2.07 is 100 points.

Nevertheless, olorin, you're clearly right that he needs to improve his throws (without having a major negative impact on his other events - the decathlon difficulty!) over the next couple of years if he is going to be a threat internationally. His PRs presently sum to about 8300; I can see another 30 points or so in each of the hurdles, PV, and LJ, but the big point improvements will have to come in the throws. Even 13.8 SP, 53 JT and 42 DT would add 180 points to his total.

Beach will need to make those marks in the throws or even a little better to make a USA world or Olympic team. In the next couple of years there are going to be athletes other than Hardee or Eaton at the 8400-8600 level.

[26mi235]

With only one throw, the indoor Hept is his better event. I think he also had a good high jump at the NCAA Hept last year, but I am guessing - he came from behind to win the event with a massive PR (and breaking of the Hept record) of 2:23 in the 1000m.

[az2004]

shana woods is back at usatf nationals pent

no news on beach yet

[unclezadok]

In a T & FN article on Haley Crouser she was quoted as saying he will do some heptathlons this year. She is a reasonably good hurdler, long jumper and high jumper in addition to the throws. It will be fun to see a HS girl in the event who does not throw 30 feet in the shot and 90 in the JT.

[DecFan]

In a T & FN article on Haley Crouser she was quoted as saying he will do some heptathlons this year. She is a reasonably good hurdler, long jumper and high jumper in addition to the throws. It will be fun to see a HS girl in the event who does not throw 30 feet in the shot and 90 in the JT.

Yes, I was intrigued to see that also. The 800 will be painful, but she's a competitor. I look forward to seeing what she can do.

[nbonaddio]

With only one throw, the indoor Hept is his better event. I think he also had a good high jump at the NCAA Hept last year, but I am guessing - he came from behind to win the event with a massive PR (and breaking of the Hept record) of 2:23 in the 1000m.

Sounds like Donovan Kilmartin, part two.

[26mi235]

Jay Cato from Wisconsin is, at least currently, in this same mold -- better at the Hept because his throws are weak. However, he may of the physical build to master those constraints better, especially when he is past his student days and can spend the amount of time that it takes. His throws coach just got their SP/DT guy to 63-5 and 195/59.64, as well as improving substantially the marks of four or five other SP/DT, male and female. [He currently gets point through marks like 2.12m/5.25m/7.64m/10.8x/47.9x/14.0x, while his weights are 43[13.12m]/37.3m/45m.

Unlike Beach and Kilmartin, he came out of high school with potential but much of his development has been at the college level.

[DecFan]

Jay Cato from Wisconsin is, at least currently, in this same mold -- better at the Hept because his throws are weak. However, he may of the physical build to master those constraints better, especially when he is past his student days and can spend the amount of time that it takes. His throws coach just got their SP/DT guy to 63-5 and 195/59.64, as well as improving substantially the marks of four or five other SP/DT, male and female. [He currently gets point through marks like 2.12m/5.25m/7.64m/10.8x/47.9x/14.0x, while his weights are 43[13.12m]/37.3m/45m.

Unlike Beach and Kilmartin, he came out of high school with potential but much of his development has been at the college level.

Just to complete the picture here:
birthday: Christmas Day 1990
1500PR 4:42.x
decathlon PR 7616

Like Beach, a couple of indoor PRs are markedly superior to his outdoor PRs. Any idea why?:
HJ 2.12 I 2.03 O
SP 13.12 I 12.30 O

[26mi235]

Outdoors he has not done so many HJs, which he can work on indoors, and thus is freed up to work on the throws. He has lost part of his outdoor to injury at points where he would have possibly hit new PRs.

Last year he hurt his ankle at Big Tens in the LJ and thus was not at full capacity for the decathlon. He did not do the decathlon at the Big Ten meet; I think that was because he looked good for points in the LJ, PV, 110h, and relays, and that way he would not have two decas in a row.

Besides, the team had some other scoring decathletes and his scoring would have taken some away from them. As it was, the decathlon was pretty deep for a conference meet. Lone guy who finished fourth before, set a new PR almost 200 points above that level --- and finished something like 12th.

I guess the team strategy worked, because Wisconsin won the Big Ten meet by storming to a 3:05 4x400 and pass Nebraska and distance Indiana. It was probably the best meet that I have been at, especially being 'in the environment (officiating the three PVs and then miscellaneous things on the track.)

[harvtrack]

Anyone know what is up with Gunnar Nixon of Arkansas? (5th place at '12 outdoor NC's...7892)
He has not competed this indoor season and his name has "disappeared" from the Razorback roster.

[DecFan]

Anyone know what is up with Gunnar Nixon of Arkansas? (5th place at '12 outdoor NC's...7892)
He has not competed this indoor season and his name has "disappeared" from the Razorback roster.

On Feb 13th he tweeted that he would be competing at USA Indoors. But he hasn't said anything about leaving Arkansas.

[olorin]

Beach only 12.33 in SP over the weekend.
If he will not improve his throws very soon I am afarid he does not have a future in T&F.
Hope he will come around because after Eugene he became one of my favorite athletes.

The two 'Beach a like' women competitor - Chelsea Carrier Eades (23) and Lindsay Lettow (22) had a reasonable start to their indoor campaign. Eades broke her PB in 60 and 800 indoor, while Lettow broke her PB in the pentathlon by almost 100 points.
Both are ~12, ~38 throwers, both will not make it in the heptathlon unless they improve dramatically (Eades will probably concentrate on the 100h). Krais, another Beach type athlete, is yet to open her season. She was injured last year - anyone has an idea whether she is going to compete this winter?

[Powell]

In Jeremy Taiwo's 6156 heptathlon last weekend, he had a 13-7 vault. His PR is 15-11. A 4.80 would have given him 6296, if I have calculated correctly.

13-7 is 4.14, that gives 656 points, while 4.80 is worth 849. A difference of 193 points, not 140.

[Bruce Kritzler]

Derek Drouin upped the hept hj record today with 2.30-7'6.5" at Big 10 Indoor. He is leader after day 1.

[26mi235]

I figured that he had an excellent chance. The two guys from Wisconsin (Cato and Zeimek) had pretty decent HJ (2.03, 2.06) and lost ~250 points. I am not sure how we Drouin does in the PV, I think he is a decent hurdler (vague memory) and should be Heptathlon-decent in the 1000. Both UW guys have gone 5.15 this year and Cato took some attempts at 5.30 last week. Cato is substantially better than Zeimek in the 60H and then they get to gut it out. Cato had a pretty good LJ day, going 7.70 in the Hept and 7.85/25-9.25 in the open (on two jumps).

[olorin]

Jay Cato went out at 5.30 today at the Wisconsin meet; he was clean until then but had already gone 7.5x in the LJ and 7.0x in the 60.

Even without Beach (I think he is out) there are a number of strong contenders for the Hept at NCAAs (and the women's Pent as well).

Cato improved his PB in the LJ to 7.70 at big 10 indoor.

Garrett Scantling (19) from Georgia is showing that he has a potential to be a world class decathlete.
In the SEC indoor he set three PBs in the first day including:
60 - 6.95 (previous PB 7.10)
LJ - 7.14 (previous PB 7.01)
SP - 14.26 (previous PB 13.39).
He is faster than Cato and Beach over the 60 and much (much) better thrower. He is also three years younger. Hope they have good coaches in Georgia that will ensure that he fulfil his potential.

[Dave]

It is very encouraging to have this kind of material to discuss without any real mention of Eaton, Hardee's, or Clay. Did Clay retire after the Olympic trials?

[unclezadok]

It is very encouraging to have this kind of material to discuss without any real mention of Eaton, Hardee's, or Clay. Did Clay retire after the Olympic trials?

I was assuming that Clay had retired but I don't remember him announcing it officially.

The field so far for the USATF heptathlon, from Frank Zarnowski's DECA site:

Trey Hardee, Miller Moss, Jake Arnold, Curtis Beach, Gunnar Nixon, Ryan Harlan, Dan Gooris, Corbin Duer, Terry Prentice

Ashton Eaton had announced some time ago that he would not compete indoors.

[Dave]

It is very encouraging to have this kind of material to discuss without any real mention of Eaton, Hardee's, or Clay. Did Clay retire after the Olympic trials?

I was assuming that Clay had retired but I don't remember him announcing it officially.

The field so far for the USATF heptathlon, from Frank Zarnowski's DECA site:

Trey Hardee, Miller Moss, Jake Arnold, Curtis Beach, Gunnar Nixon, Ryan Harlan, Dan Gooris, Corbin Duer, Terry Prentice

Ashton Eaton had announced some time ago that he would not compete indoors.

Too bad Eaton isn't competing indoors. It is fun to watch him play to his strength.

[unclezadok]

Storming finish for Cato:

1 Cato, Japheth 7.03 7.70m 11.99m 2.03m 7.83 5.15m 2:45.42
Wisconsin 25-03.25 39-04 6-08 16-10.75
Team Points: 10 6090 (872) (985) (606) (831) 3294 (1025) (957) (814)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Ziemek, Zach 7.04 6.99m 13.11m 2.06m 8.36 5.15m 2:48.25
Wisconsin 22-11.25 43-00.25 6-09 16-10.75
Team Points: 8 5846 (868) (811) (674) (859) 3212 (893) (957) (784)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Drouin, Derek 7.25 7.20m 12.04m 2.30m 8.00 4.15m 2:45.06
Indiana 23-07.5 39-06 7-06.5 13-07.25
Team Points: 6 5817 (796) (862) (609) (1091) 3358 (982) (659) (818)

[26mi235]

I think that Cato, 6090, is only the second collegian to go over 6000 three times (although NCAAs gives others a chance -- it also gives him a chance to hit a fourth. Cato gave up 260 points in the HJ while jumping 203 but his one meter advantage in the PV was worth a 300 swing and he had bests in four events [60 7.03, LJ 7.70 (7.85 in the open competition), 60H 7.83 , PV 515]. Pretty deep for a conference meet -- 5333 did not even score.

[Fortius19]

Wow! Nice results from Drouin! That's a very good 1000m time for a HJer.

Glad he was able to finish the competition well on day two to secure his Hept "WR".

[olorin]

Garrett Scantling (19) from Georgia is showing that he has a potential to be a world class decathlete.
In the SEC indoor he set three PBs in the first day including:
60 - 6.95 (previous PB 7.10)
LJ - 7.14 (previous PB 7.01)
SP - 14.26 (previous PB 13.39).
He is faster than Cato and Beach over the 60 and much (much) better thrower. He is also three years younger. Hope they have good coaches in Georgia that will ensure that he fulfil his potential.

Scantilng finish with a huge PB of 5889 (old PB 5619)
His last day includes:
60h 8.15 (old PB 8.27)
PV - 4.90 (=PB)
1000 - 2:40.41 (3:00.41)

[26mi235]

2 Ziemek, Zach Wisconsin, 5846, is a sophomore, so he is a bout the same age and Cato (6090) is only a junior, so the age differences are probably not great. Ziemek increased his PR by about the same amount (5598 to 5846, so 248 increases vs 270).

For the Cato comparison, too much difference between 6.95 and 7.01, and Cato has 'quick feet' with a 7.83 60h and a 7.85m LJ. The throws were not that different before (PRs 13.39 vs 13.12 but were a big difference in the results today, although the gradient is rather flat in the shot so the point difference was not that large.

It should be a pretty good NCAA Hept.