Screwy Verticals In Seattle


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Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby tandfman » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:27 am

I don't understand what happened in the vertical jumps in the Husky Classic this weekend. It appears from the official results that ties were broken properly on the basis of the normal misses rule in the pole vaults, but not in the high jumps. All high jumpers who had the same best clearance were shown as being tied for whatever position it was. Can anyone explain this?
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:10 am

Sometimes the person entering the data for the link on to the web does not understand what the officials have put down. I officiate the PV and occasionally have to go back and have them make place adjustments because of this. Some times the problem is that those putting the places on have flawed notions of the rules (e.g., most clearances best, fewest misses best, even fewest overall attempts); in your case, the was no comprehension of differentiation beyond height cleared. If the person has only been working the horizontal jumps, where the tiebreaker is so rarely used that many have not seen it, it might simply be someone with the horizontal jumps as their background.
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby dj » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:42 am

Hy-tek requires (at least in some versions, perhaps all) a manual override to break same height "ties." This is sometimes forgotten by the results person. And, as pointed out, sometimes the operator doesn't know the rules.
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby gh » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:06 pm

we see this glitch frequently since we went to "automated" results
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby CodeFlash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:01 pm

In the latest versions if you type the field series you can hit a button that automatically breaks ties. Makes it a little easier, but still sometimes those things can be confusing if there are a number of people in the events and you have to break the ties manually in the scoring system.
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby polevaultpower » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:17 pm

What other people said is all true, also, they started using some kind of electronic system down at each field event that automatically updates to Hy-Tek, so it's possible there is an issue there, or that it worked properly for the PV, but for the HJ it didn't and Kenny or whoever didn't have time to manually break the ties.
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby lonewolf » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:22 pm

Worked Tyson this weekend.. W LJ, 3 flights of 17, 9 and ties to finals.. when you have 153 prelim jumps, ya gonna have some ties..and we did.. several.. the computer system in use did not know what to do with unbreakable ties. (x.xx F F) , which, uncannily but not unusual, happened to be for 9th place.. no problem, we took em both... one was no show for finals, the other got a legal jump and broke the tie.
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby Per Andersen » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:38 pm

tandfman wrote:I don't understand what happened in the vertical jumps in the Husky Classic this weekend. It appears from the official results that ties were broken properly on the basis of the normal misses rule in the pole vaults, but not in the high jumps. All high jumpers who had the same best clearance were shown as being tied for whatever position it was. Can anyone explain this?

Nothing new regarding this meet and particularly the HJ. It has happened for years. It's pretty much constant at meets in the Dempsey arena.
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby polevaultpower » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:28 pm

Per Andersen wrote:
tandfman wrote:I don't understand what happened in the vertical jumps in the Husky Classic this weekend. It appears from the official results that ties were broken properly on the basis of the normal misses rule in the pole vaults, but not in the high jumps. All high jumpers who had the same best clearance were shown as being tied for whatever position it was. Can anyone explain this?

Nothing new regarding this meet and particularly the HJ. It has happened for years. It's pretty much constant at meets in the Dempsey arena.


That's true, I would say the more newsworthy statement would be the fact that some of the ties DID get broken in the results.

The officials are breaking the ties on their sheets, it's an issue with the results guys trying to get things up quickly, and the UW coaches not particularly caring about whether vertical jumps ties get broken in the online results. UW is the one paying the bills, not a bunch of stats junkies on the internet :wink:
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby Marlow » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:12 am

polevaultpower wrote:the UW coaches not particularly caring about whether vertical jumps ties get broken in the online results.

Yeah, cuz we all know that football and baseball coaches don't care whether the stats are recorded accurately . . . :roll: (yes, that was sarcasm). That is truly pathetic.
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby dukehjsteve » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:37 am

And sometimes the jump off tie breaker gets ignored !

I was officiating the High Jump at an invitational meet at Wabash College last month, and in a two-lady jump off, after a 4th try mutual miss, a lower height mutual clearance, a higher height mutual miss, the two ladies shook hands and told me, " a tie is ok with both of us. " I can't force them to keep jumping, can I ?!
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby Marlow » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:42 am

dukehjsteve wrote:I was officiating the High Jump at an invitational meet at Wabash College last month, and in a two-lady jump off, after a 4th try mutual miss, a lower height mutual clearance, a higher height mutual miss, the two ladies shook hands and told me, " a tie is ok with both of us. " I can't force them to keep jumping, can I ?!

I guess all you could do is ask them politely for 2 more heights, but if they're motivated to tie, they can both miss intentionally.
The HS rule book states that jumpers MUST jump at every tie-break height (i.e., not pass), which of course, absurd, because there so many ways to miss intentionally, including timing out.
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:41 am

Also, after a full competition, which might be ten jumps (plus warm-ups), then to go through several cycles the number of jumps gets to a level that neither athlete can perform well and might even be courting injury.
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby exdrake » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:34 am

Maybe they were Tarmohing?
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby Per Andersen » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:03 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:And sometimes the jump off tie breaker gets ignored !

I was officiating the High Jump at an invitational meet at Wabash College last month, and in a two-lady jump off, after a 4th try mutual miss, a lower height mutual clearance, a higher height mutual miss, the two ladies shook hands and told me, " a tie is ok with both of us. " I can't force them to keep jumping, can I ?!

The IAAF rules regarding ties allows them to do just what they did. This is rule 181.8.9 from 2010.
Of course,the tie break rule is still in effect but it is no longer mandatory for all kinds of meets.
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Re: Screwy Verticals In Seattle

Postby tandfman » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:24 am

polevaultpower wrote:The officials are breaking the ties on their sheets, it's an issue with the results guys trying to get things up quickly, and the UW coaches not particularly caring about whether vertical jumps ties get broken in the online results. UW is the one paying the bills, not a bunch of stats junkies on the internet :wink:

I would think the UW coaches would care that their meet looks half-assed to the world if the online results appear to show that the rules of the sport have not been followed.
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