preview for boston 2 mile [2 HSRs for Cain]

[Dutra5]

Disappointed by her time, I have a STRONG feeling it was NOT her fault, or inability to run faster.

Fault for what? Not running a time that you're probably the only one on the planet would believe she could run. If you're disappointed then take a dose of reality and simply enjoy the fact that she's a talented 16 year old kid. She ran a great race.

[kuha]

Just saw this result. Truly amazing.

[aaronk]

While it's probably NOT the best indicator of who the best American female distance runners are (or have been), but here is the revised list of All Time American Indoor Female Two Milers (performers)....the Boston women are in ALL CAPS.

1. Jacobs--9:23.38 (2002)
2. Jennings--9:28.15 (1986)
3. Bremser--9:28.29 (1986)
4. Merrill--9:31.7 (1979)
4. Slaney--9:31.7 (1983)
6. Rhines--9:35.29 (2008)
7. Rudolph--9:35.66 (2002)
8. Hansen--9:37.03 (1982)
9. Kenah--9:38.06 (2002)
10. Larrieu--9:38.1 (1981)
11. CAIN--9:38.68 (2013)
12. ERDMANN--9:39.48 (2013)
13. Easker--9:40.54 (1985)
14. Dornhoefer--9:40.73 (1986)
15. BOWMAN--9:41.59 (2013)
ADD....20. HIGGINSON--9:49.00 (2013)
25. MARTINEZ--9:51.91 (2013)

[aaronk]

Question:

Why is Cain's official HSR for 3000 shown as 9:04.51...when the splits chart provided by the Boston people showed her 3000 as 9:07.53 (rounded off)??

It appears the splits chart had every 200 charted.
I counted the 200 splits, and her 3000 WAS listed as being 9:07.53!!

[Dutra5]

Question:

Why is Cain's official HSR for 3000 shown as 9:04.51...when the splits chart provided by the Boston people showed her 3000 as 9:07.53 (rounded off)??

It appears the splits chart had every 200 charted.
I counted the 200 splits, and her 3000 WAS listed as being 9:07.53!!

i don't think the last split is for 3000m. I think the round from 3200m to 2 mi was made before the first split which is why that split is slow. The first 400 on TV was given as a 67 while the splits taken are around 71.

[guru]

I counted the 200 splits, and her 3000 WAS listed as being 9:07.53!!

http://www.nbindoorgrandprix.com/events ... -two-mile/

[Dutra5]

I counted the 200 splits, and her 3000 WAS listed as being 9:07.53!!

http://www.nbindoorgrandprix.com/events ... -two-mile/

He's using the split chart on the flash results site which give a final split of the 9:07. That is not a 3000m split though.

[az2004]

going into the race, i was thinking 4:45 back to back would be her best possible race

and since an ideal race seldomly happens, 4:47 4:47 was a tad more likely

with 9:38 that;s 4:49 4:49 which is far more than acceptable to be

with mary slaney best of 9:31 it's just shocking mary cain ran within 7 seconds of a grown women, and still a teemager

and within a second of francie larrieu

[az2004]

interview with cain after race
http://usa.milesplit.com/meets/130160/videos/?id=33044

[doug5321]

going into the race, i was thinking 4:45 back to back would be her best possible race

and since an ideal race seldomly happens, 4:47 4:47 was a tad more likely

with 9:38 that;s 4:49 4:49 which is far more than acceptable to be

with mary slaney best of 9:31 it's just shocking mary cain ran within 7 seconds of a grown women, and still a teemager

and within a second of francie larrieu

slaneys 3000 time is about 9:05 fpr 2 miles. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... mblE#gid=0

[az2004]

a friend was in boston and here's his recap of the race...
Just got back to my room after the meet. For those who did not see it. Cain was behind the pacer for 50 meters before wisely backing off. Only Gebrselassie and Maritinez tried to stay with Dibaba and the pacer (Hyman) and later paid the price. After Hyman stepped off, Dibaba kept pushing, Gebrselasse fell back first and then Martinez. Soon, Dibababa was gone and the pack swallowed the other 2 up and eventually spit them out the back. You follow Dibaba at your own risk. She the rest of the way in solitary , majestic fashion to another dominant victory. (#6 all time)



Back in the land of the mortals, the pack was keeping together. Cain was hanging in, at first in back, then at times moving to the middle but never letting a gap open. The announcer did a good job keeping us aware of her splits vs the high school record (fairchild 8:55.92 in 1995). It soon became obvious that she was going to take a big chunk off that record. As the pack started to push the pace runners started to get dropped but Cain stayed with the leaders. In the last 100 she showed off her kick again as reeled in everyone but Reed.




She smashed the HS record by 17 seconds! For perspective, her pace was 4:49.64 per mile, while the Girls junior mile in the same meet was won in 4:48.94. She finished the top American in a meet with 4 other Americans with serious credentials. I have not seen a deep all time list for the USA in W 2mile (not run very often after all). I have Amy Rudolph at #7 with a 9:35.66. Cain cannot be very far down that list.

[aaronk]

a friend was in boston and here's his recap of the race...
Just got back to my room after the meet. For those who did not see it. Cain was behind the pacer for 50 meters before wisely backing off. Only Gebrselassie and Maritinez tried to stay with Dibaba and the pacer (Hyman) and later paid the price. After Hyman stepped off, Dibaba kept pushing, Gebrselasse fell back first and then Martinez. Soon, Dibababa was gone and the pack swallowed the other 2 up and eventually spit them out the back. You follow Dibaba at your own risk. She the rest of the way in solitary , majestic fashion to another dominant victory. (#6 all time)



Back in the land of the mortals, the pack was keeping together. Cain was hanging in, at first in back, then at times moving to the middle but never letting a gap open. The announcer did a good job keeping us aware of her splits vs the high school record (fairchild 8:55.92 in 1995). It soon became obvious that she was going to take a big chunk off that record. As the pack started to push the pace runners started to get dropped but Cain stayed with the leaders. In the last 100 she showed off her kick again as reeled in everyone but Reed.




She smashed the HS record by 17 seconds! For perspective, her pace was 4:49.64 per mile, while the Girls junior mile in the same meet was won in 4:48.94. She finished the top American in a meet with 4 other Americans with serious credentials. I have not seen a deep all time list for the USA in W 2mile (not run very often after all). I have Amy Rudolph at #7 with a 9:35.66. Cain cannot be very far down that list.

See the list I provided earlier.
I posted USA Top 15 women's indoor 2 milers, plus where two other Boston finishers are on the list.
But note that the 2 mile is rarely run, so MANY of the top USA women have NOT run the race....especially indoors!!
(3200 marks are NOT included!!)
Cain's pretty high on the list, but I still think she can take another 15-20 seconds off her time.....NOW!!

[az2004]

http://usa.milesplit.com/articles/99695 ... -3754-300m

video for race will eventually be placed in coverage spot which has a places holder, probably after the espn2 tv coverage from 2-4pm eastern

i think cain ran safe last night, the 4:49 pace was controlled,

i think 4:45 pace is within her ability now

your projection of 4:40 pace in a set up race with pacers might be possible, buti'd wait till outdoors to feel more comfortable about that

[az2004]

listening to her interview, she wasn'tgetting the actual splits thru the race, seemed to be more on feel, didn't know 3k time

at end of interview rupp walks by and camera pans over to alberto

after millrose, the question for me , is whether cain does the usatf national indoors, or is she shutting down to prepare for outdoor??

[gh]

I counted the 200 splits, and her 3000 WAS listed as being 9:07.53!!

http://www.nbindoorgrandprix.com/events ... -two-mile/

He's using the split chart on the flash results site which give a final split of the 9:07. That is not a 3000m split though.

so people understand what those splits are, they're taken by the camera at the finish line. Since 2M is c218m longer than 3000m, the starting line is 18m down the track, so the first split (which you'll note for everybody is a couple of seconds slower) is for 218m, and all the subsequent splits have 200m added to that, so 418, 618, etc., etc.

So the actual 3000 split was taken at the race's start line (15 laps), not the finish.

[az2004]

here's alberto on mary cain after the race,,

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/250016 ... Grand-Prix

[unclezadok]

I wonder what she can do in an 800 now.

[kellits2gnv]

I wonder what she can do in an 800 now.

I think it would be hard to say she cant run sub 2:02.

[Master Po]

I wonder what she can do in an 800 now.

Interesting question -- she ran 2:03.34 in 2012. Seems reasonable to think she would be a bit faster now, e.g., 2:02.

[Marlow]

Interesting question -- she ran 2:03.34 in 2012. Seems reasonable to think she would be a bit faster now, e.g., 2:02.

Looking at the HS Records, it's hard to imagine, she couldn't own them all.

Indoors

800 2:01.8
1000 2:43.40
1500 Cain
Mile Cain
3000 Cain
2 Mile Cain
5000 16:19

Outdoors

800 2:00.07
1500 Cain
Mile 4:35.24
3000 9:08.6
2 Miles 9:54.22
5000 15:52.88
10,000 32:52.5

[Master Po]

Interesting question -- she ran 2:03.34 in 2012. Seems reasonable to think she would be a bit faster now, e.g., 2:02.

Looking at the HS Records, it's hard to imagine, she couldn't own them all.

Indoors

800 2:01.8
1000 2:43.40
1500 Cain
Mile Cain
3000 Cain
2 Mile Cain
5000 16:19

Outdoors

800 2:00.07
1500 Cain
Mile 4:35.24
3000 9:08.6
2 Miles 9:54.22
5000 15:52.88
10,000 32:52.5

Good point, Marlow. This list of records interesting to think about, for Cain. Given that she's already run faster indoors than the outdoor mile, 3k, & 2 mile records, one can reasonably think she will get those. As for the 5k records -- with the normal assumptions in place (good health, continuing development, appropriate racing opportunities) -- it seems reasonable as well to think that someone who can run 3k around 9:00 and 2 miles under 9:40 can reach these 5k records. Fewer opportunities to approach the 10k time, but it might be feasible, too.

I would think the really hard ones would be at 800, especially Kim Gallagher's 2:00.07. I know that Cain has "only" 2:03.34, so it might be easy for some to underestimate that time, and her capacity at that distance. However, when you look at the World Youth lists from 2012, only one other athlete born in 1996 was faster than Cain at 800. And, perusing the world Youth and Junior 800 lists from 2012, one sees that most -- perhaps almost all -- of the 800 times faster than hers were run in national or international competition, whereas Cain's 2:03.34 was run in a high school meet (and not a national hs invitational, or even the state championship meet, iirc). Had she run that race with other 2:01-2:03 competition, I'm confident she would already have a PB faster than 2:03.34. So, I think she has more capacity at 800, but that 2:00.07 looks daunting -- that was Kim Gallagher, after all -- an extraordinary prep athlete.

[aaronk]

Interesting question -- she ran 2:03.34 in 2012. Seems reasonable to think she would be a bit faster now, e.g., 2:02.

Looking at the HS Records, it's hard to imagine, she couldn't own them all.

Indoors

800 2:01.8
1000 2:43.40
1500 Cain
Mile Cain
3000 Cain
2 Mile Cain
5000 16:19

Outdoors

800 2:00.07
1500 Cain
Mile 4:35.24
3000 9:08.6
2 Miles 9:54.22
5000 15:52.88
10,000 32:52.5

Good point, Marlow. This list of records interesting to think about, for Cain. Given that she's already run faster indoors than the outdoor mile, 3k, & 2 mile records, one can reasonably think she will get those. As for the 5k records -- with the normal assumptions in place (good health, continuing development, appropriate racing opportunities) -- it seems reasonable as well to think that someone who can run 3k around 9:00 and 2 miles under 9:40 can reach these 5k records. Fewer opportunities to approach the 10k time, but it might be feasible, too.

I would think the really hard ones would be at 800, especially Kim Gallagher's 2:00.07. I know that Cain has "only" 2:03.34, so it might be easy for some to underestimate that time, and her capacity at that distance. However, when you look at the World Youth lists from 2012, only one other athlete born in 1996 was faster than Cain at 800. And, perusing the world Youth and Junior 800 lists from 2012, one sees that most -- perhaps almost all -- of the 800 times faster than hers were run in national or international competition, whereas Cain's 2:03.34 was run in a high school meet (and not a national hs invitational, or even the state championship meet, iirc). Had she run that race with other 2:01-2:03 competition, I'm confident she would already have a PB faster than 2:03.34. So, I think she has more capacity at 800, but that 2:00.07 looks daunting -- that was Kim Gallagher, after all -- an extraordinary prep athlete.

The outdoor girls 5K is 15:48.91 by Emily Sisson in 2010.
Cayla Hatton is second on the out list with her 15:50.32 from the WJC last year!!

But Cain could almost certainly go sub-15:30, so if she runs one, she'll get the record!!

[Dutra5]

I agree that the 800m record is the toughest and might not be achievable. All the other ones she doesn't already hold are achievable but I'm not sure she runs a track 5000m in HS.

[26mi235]

The 10,000 is as hard as that listed 5000m and probably pushes her range too much.

[az2004]

salazar is quoted the 1500 is mary cain's sweet spot

even the 3k/2 mile is a bit long for her

i'd presume 5k/10 k would be much too lomg, the longer the race the less ideal for her

my recollection from indoor 800 last year is twotimes cain ran had ajee wilson in the race for her 2 best times and cain was 2nd both times

here's thenewbalance indoor 800 from last year

http://www.runnerspace.com/video.php?video_id=61486

i see cain 800 as her 2nd event with 1500/mile her best

[Marlow]

salazar is quoted the 1500 is mary cain's sweet spot

Baxter handled Cain in XC because of that, plus Baxter looks like a 'strength' (distance, the more the better) runner, while Cain is a 'speed' runner. Speed runners need to establish a set rhythm to maximize their talent. While I am now convinced that Cain could break the 5000 record, I see no urgency in it, and would agree with Salazar if they choose not to go after it.

[az2004]

i think the mud was a major factor in xc

with the millrose her next announce race, interesting to see what salazar has planned for outdoor


for 2014 eugene junior, does she do both 3k and 1500??

does she skip indoor national. or give 1500 a shot

2012 she did do 800 at olumpic trial

will she give des moines a shot at 1500 for the experience..

will she try the pre meet and ny grand prix

any chance she gives europe a try

my crystal ball says she skips indoor national

penn relayshas a womens mile on saturday of the meet

id bet on pre and ny and desmoines

skip europe

[Marlow]

will she try the pre meet and ny grand prix
any chance she gives europe a try
my crystal ball says she skips indoor national
penn relayshas a womens mile on saturday of the meet
id bet on pre and ny and desmoines
skip europe

It's hard to remember she's ONLY 16 years old. Does one strike while the iron is hot (who knows what the future may bring?) or does one let it cool so it doesn't become brittle in the tempering (blacksmith analogy! ).

[aaronk]

will she try the pre meet and ny grand prix
any chance she gives europe a try
my crystal ball says she skips indoor national
penn relayshas a womens mile on saturday of the meet
id bet on pre and ny and desmoines
skip europe

It's hard to remember she's ONLY 16 years old. Does one strike while the iron is hot (who knows what the future may bring?) or does one let it cool so it doesn't become brittle in the tempering (blacksmith analogy! ).

She ain't your "normal" 16 year old!!
(Well, in her over-use of "like" and "you know" in her sentences, yes, she is!! )
In her running, and in her interviews post-race, she seems several notches above your "normal" 16 year old.
She uses good strategy, hasn't made any mistakes as far as I can see (getting boxed, falling, running a stuttered pace, etc).
But let's look at her (and other's) history.

Cain took four hours of SAT's last week, then two hours later, crushed two HSR's!!!
Cain maintains a 4.0 GPA (as far as I know), and now holds FOUR HSR's....and still attends class, does her homework, etc etc.
She sounds VERY poised in her interviews.
I mean, here she is, just a teenager, and she's the STAR of the Boston GP meet, and has many media people pressing microphones in her face, and yet she NEVER flinches, never shakes or shivers in her running shoes, and sounds (even with all those "likes" and "you knows") like a VERY well-spoken, knowledgable, and charming "kid".

As for history, Mary (Decker) Slaney, Zola Budd, Heike Drechsler, and any number of Kenyans and Ethiopians, have been at Mary's level....or better at age 16.
Cain seems to be very comfortable being who she is.
She seems to be having lots of fun, and has a great sense of humor. ("I was racing an Olympian.....for two seconds!!")
I think Mary Cain is several notches above being just a teenager!!
She may be in chronological age, but NOT in any other way!!!

I say, go for it....NOW!!

[az2004]

i think cain needs outdoor training with early season 800 to max her speed base

if we say 4:05 1500 is her target, we need to do some 800 interval work

this year has been very cold, with indoor training only possible

2014 eugene 1500 is her target

for me i'd do the 2 usa diamond league meets


25 MAY 2013

adidas Grand Prix

01 JUN 2013

Eugene SDL - Prefontaine Classic

Eugene, OR


30 JUN 2013

British Athletics Birmingham Grand Prix

Birmingham

26 JUL 2013 - 27 JUL 2013

British Athletics London Grand Prix

London (CP)

but alberto knows way more than i d, so i'm as patient as he is

[Marlow]

i think cain needs outdoor training with early season 800 to max her speed base
if we say 4:05 1500 is her target, we need to do some 800 interval work

I'm sure Alberto is waiting breathlessly for your coaching guidance!

[az2004]

i think cain needs outdoor training with early season 800 to max her speed base
if we say 4:05 1500 is her target, we need to do some 800 interval work

I'm sure Alberto is waiting breathlessly for your coaching guidance!

which is why i ended my message with but alberto knows way more than i d, so i'm as patient as he is

INDOORS 2012, cain had 2 800 with ajee wilson, so she had them last year

aroonk mentioned cain's 4.0+ gpa
i have a friend who went toswarthmore andmba from wharton, and lives in bronxville now, confrims cain is a top noth student, and couldgo anywhere she wanted

harvard, colombia, stanford

but is unlikely to run in college

[KevinM]

She wouldn't need close to normal Harvard, Columbia, Stanford credentials to run for those schools.

[az2004]

the boston hs g video i found

http://usa.milesplit.com/meets/130160-n ... grand-prix

1 Wesley Frazier USA 4:48.94 4:31.46 (1500)
2 Bethanie Brown USA 4:54.57
3 Sarah Gillespie USA 4:54.81
4 Ryen Frazier USA 4:59.73
5 Katie Lembo USA 5:01.04
6 Sara Sargent USA 5:01.56
7 Sheridan Wilbur USA 5:02.40
8 Marissa Ruskan USA 5:02.96
9 Keelin Hollowood USA 5:03.53
10 Julie Williams USA 5:04.72
11 Annika Gompers USA 5:05.39
12 Julie McConville USA 5:06.31

for perspective newbalance outdoor mile 2001 w frazier as soph did beat cain who was a frosh

w frazier is really distance 3k/5k type won the 5k at the meet in 2011

[Marlow]

confrims cain is a top noth student, and couldgo anywhere she wanted
harvard, colombia, stanford

I spoke to that last school just now and they have accepted her, but
IT'S A LIMITED TIME OFFER AND OPERATORS ARE STANDING BY RIGHT NOW TO TAKE HER CALL!!