az2004 wrote:from hearing her interviews mary cain seems like whatever happens happens if mary cain runs a 10:05 in bostom it'll be a whatever moment for her, a learning expereince mary cain isn't taking this as serious as some, just enjoying it enjoying being in the same race as t dibaba and enjoying what she can do
Would that it were so, but I very much doubt it. You don't get this kind of intense nat'l scrutiny at age 16 and just slough it off. There is immense pressure on her, both from herself and the running media. MOST young female (and male for that matter) running phenoms flame out, mostly from the pressure of having to perpetually top their own accomplishments. The stopwatch is a cruel taskmaster and never lies.
Brian wrote:One thing I believe we should all do for Mary Cain is to get into the habit (as some here already have, which gave me the idea) of referring to her mostly by her last name rather than her first, just as we would for an adult female.
Or for a high school kid who happened to be male. Does anyone refer to Cheserek as just Edward? Not that I've seen.
I think in just about every media circle, sports or otherwise, if you're under 18 you're called by your first name, which I'm fine with(but dont get me started on the NYRR printing WOMEN'S first names on bibs). What does drive me nuts is high school athletic directors who refer to their school's teams as "men" and "women". They're not - they're kids.
az2004 wrote:from hearing her interviews mary cain seems like whatever happens happens if mary cain runs a 10:05 in bostom it'll be a whatever moment for her, a learning expereince mary cain isn't taking this as serious as some, just enjoying it enjoying being in the same race as t dibaba and enjoying what she can do
Would that it were so, but I very much doubt it. You don't get this kind of intense nat'l scrutiny at age 16 and just slough it off. There is immense pressure on her, both from herself and the running media. MOST young female (and male for that matter) running phenoms flame out, mostly from the pressure of having to perpetually top their own accomplishments. The stopwatch is a cruel taskmaster and never lies.
I've read all the comments posted since I gave my 5-point analysis of Cain (sic!!), and it's difficult to make sense of them all!! So I chose the above as my step-off point.
Pressure?? Have any of you watched Cain's (again, sic!!! Our LAST NAME Gal!!) various interview videos?? I have.....probably ALL of them.....from her CC races, track races out and indoors, from the past couple of years. Conclusion? Mary Cain (!!) is a NORMAL teenager! Listen to her talk! FAST speaking, lots of "like"s and "you know"'s in almost every sentence!! And not even ONE moment of fear, intimidation, paranoia, or lack of confidence about who she is, what she's done, and what's expected of her!! As I said earlier, in a post-race interview, speaking of racing against the GREAT Tirunish Dibaba, she says something like "It'd be great to be within a 100 meters of her when she finishes, and me applauding her!!". Tell me, does that sound like someone feeling the pressure of going up against the woman who almost everyone considers the WORLD'S best female distance runner?? No, I think Cain is just a VERY happy, VERY well balanced (4.0 student too!!), VERY charming and well-spoken (despite the teenage "vocabulary"!!), and just your NORMAL 16 year old KID!!!
Who happens to be the greatest American talent to come upon us in DECADES!!!
guru wrote:I think in just about every media circle, sports or otherwise, if you're under 18 you're called by your first name, which I'm fine with(but dont get me started on the NYRR printing WOMEN'S first names on bibs).
Do you know if it wasn't the women's own choice to have their first names on the bibs?
18.99s wrote:Do you know if it wasn't the women's own choice to have their first names on the bibs?
??!! If you are trying to market yourself, doesn't it make A LOT more sense for your bib to say, "Lolo" or "Alyson" than "Jones" or "Felix"? Murkans like their sports celebrities up close and personal . . . A-Rod, Peyton and Eli, Lance, etc..
guru wrote:I think in just about every media circle, sports or otherwise, if you're under 18 you're called by your first name, which I'm fine with(but dont get me started on the NYRR printing WOMEN'S first names on bibs).
Do you know if it wasn't the women's own choice to have their first names on the bibs?
When this was first discussed here, David Monti stated it was indeed a NYRR decision.
aaronk wrote:3. The fact that so few Americans have run 8:45 (indoors....or even outdoors) has really nothing to do with Cain being able to do so. SHE isn't to blame for the lack of depth in female USA distance running!! (Though that's improving!!) Did you notice that there was NO ranking of 3K runners in the Annual issue of T&FN?? Not enough 3K races?? The 3K seems to be mainly an indoor event. Rarely run outdoors anymore!!
There have been enough women who've run 4:32 or a reasonable facsimile who have also run 3000m to draw a conclusion that it would be an outlier if she did so.
az2004 wrote:from hearing her interviews mary cain seems like whatever happens happens, it's not like a big name talent at the 2000 olympics where the pressure ws so intense she couldn't deal with it
if mary cain runs a 10:05 in bostom it'll be a whatever moment for her, a learning expereince
mary cain isn't taking this as serious as some, just enjoying it
enjoying being in the same race as t dibaba and enjoying what she can do
Let's hope so. At least one on the board seems to be a tad overly focused on the bottom line.
And before the "but she was only 16" song kicks in, there are 13 gals 16 or younger ahead of here, including some who are not Chinese, Ethopian or Kenyan...
I'm not suggesting she can't/hasn't improved dramatically, but let's not pretend that her early success predicts future Olympic gold, nor that her being as fast as most US college milers says much more than the US has lacked depth in this event for a long time...
the new articleon the frontpage has an interestingset of quotes
John Henwood: “I’ve worked with Mary since October. Alberto Salazar is her coach [the former marathon champion who also coaches Mo Farah] . He sets the programme, and I supervise the track sessions and report back to Alberto, who usually calls about five minutes after each session. The first time I saw her train I said to Alberto, ‘this girl is going to make the Olympic team’ and Alberto replied, ‘doh, that is a given’.”
“Mary also the attitude of an athlete in their late 20s, rather than a 16-year-old. She doesn’t get too concerned if she does not hit the times for every session. Some athletes would get really disappointed with themselves and would not be able to accept this. Mary listens to what Alberto and I say, and she is fine with any explanations we have [for not hitting the times] because she has great confidence in herself.”
the alberto doh that's a given shows his supreme confidence
Marlow wrote:If you are trying to market yourself, doesn't it make A LOT more sense for your bib to say, "Lolo" or "Alyson" than "Jones" or "Felix"? Murkans like their sports celebrities up close and personal . . . A-Rod, Peyton and Eli, Lance, etc..
Depends on the specific first or last names. When referring to them by one name, people say Quarrie and Bolt and Montsho and Rudisha, but then they'll say Merlene and Carl and Asafa and Lolo. Some names just resonate better with the public.
But for bibs, they either should give each athlete the choice, or use last names for everybody if they aren't allowed to choose.
And before the "but she was only 16" song kicks in, there are 13 gals 16 or younger ahead of here, including some who are not Chinese, Ethopian or Kenyan...
I'm not suggesting she can't/hasn't improved dramatically, but let's not pretend that her early success predicts future Olympic gold, nor that her being as fast as most US college milers says much more than the US has lacked depth in this event for a long time...
OK fine, that's out of the way, can we get back to enjoying her performances now?
Of course, not all 160y tracks were remotely the same. For those adept at handling its steep walls, I'd say that the San Diego track, for example, was 2-3 seconds faster for a mile than was the MSG installation.
gh wrote:Of course, not all 160y tracks were remotely the same. For those adept at handling its steep walls, I'd say that the San Diego track, for example, was 2-3 seconds faster for a mile than was the MSG installation.
Size was only part of the equation.
Curious, then, how fast the Chicago Stadium track was for Tom O'Hara's 3:56.4 in 1964? He ran 3:56.6 the month before in NYC.
Regarding the Chicago track in 1964, I am assuming this was the same one I ran on in 1966 or 67- which was a hard dirt flat track with a wooden rail and smelled like a barn. Pretty fast though, as I recall.
Helen S wrote:Regarding the Chicago track in 1964, I am assuming this was the same one I ran on in 1966 or 67- which was a hard dirt flat track with a wooden rail and smelled like a barn. Pretty fast though, as I recall.
You are talking about the University of Chicago's 220 dirt track, down on 59th St. or so. I ran on it many times. Dust everywhere. I did an indoor steeplechase on it. It was fairly fast track, I remember Wohlhuter running 4:07 or so on it, around 1970. It has since been remodeled to a mondo surface.
O'Hara's race was in the Chicago Daily News meet, held at the Chicago Stadium on West Madison, where Michael Jordan played, on an 11 lap track. The video is on youtube.
Helen S wrote:Regarding the Chicago track in 1964, I am assuming this was the same one I ran on in 1966 or 67- which was a hard dirt flat track with a wooden rail and smelled like a barn. Pretty fast though, as I recall.
You are talking about the University of Chicago's 220 dirt track, down on 59th St. or so. I ran on it many times. Dust everywhere. I did an indoor steeplechase on it. It was fairly fast track, I remember Wohlhuter running 4:07 or so on it, around 1970. It has since been remodeled to a mondo surface.
O'Hara's race was in the Chicago Daily News meet, held at the Chicago Stadium on West Madison, where Michael Jordan played, on an 11 lap track. The video is on youtube.
The track actually looked pretty decent for the period--11 laps, wood, with relatively tight corners and long straights. No matter how you cut it, however, 3:56 back then, on that surface, was pretty amazing.
Cain finished 3rd in 9:38.68 at the NB Boston indoor meet. That obliterated the indoor and outdoor HS 2 mile record. Is there any way she is not HS athlete of the year, simply based off of her indoor performances?
Last edited by mcgato on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mcgato wrote:Cain finished 3rd in 9:38.68 at the NB Boston indoor meet. That obliterated the indoor and outdoor HS 2 mile record. Is there any way she is not HS athlete of the year, simply based off of her indoor performances?
Last year she was competing with high school girls who finished fourth at the Olympic Trials. Cain is good, but there is an unrealistic nature to this whole thing which seems to be claiming she is world class. At her age, both Decker and Heald were world class, and they were beating some of the best in the entire world.
