Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?


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Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby LSR » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:15 am

Costas Goulas ‏@lsabre
"So Wallace 'Prince' Spearmon moves up to 400m, that's a move I've long waited to see! This man's got the equipment to even threaten MJ's WR!"



not sure who this man really is but on his twitter page he is friendly with all the world elites. Anyone else heard of this? interesting move if true for many reasons

my thoughts are if this is true, it says hes lost confidence in himself to compete with the jamaicans over the 200, tired of not running a PR, the us 400 scene is not as strong as its been, these could all factor in
Last edited by LSR on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Marlow » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:24 am

He's been 'threatening' this for a while (esp. last Sept after the OG). It's not a ceding of the 200 to the Jams as much as it is a realization of the situation and that the coast is clearer at 400, where his speed endurance pays better dividends (to mix metaphors). If the training goes well, I easily see him Top 3 in the USA, since we seem to be in the doldrums lately. Low-44 for sure. Sub-44? That's a wholenuther zip code.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby LSR » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:28 am

Who is wallace spearmons coach at this moment, i know trains with doc patton, tyrone edgar, rae edwards, will he have anyone to train with him over tthe 400 training
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Blues » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:01 am

LSR wrote:Who is wallace spearmons coach at this moment, i know trains with doc patton, tyrone edgar, rae edwards, will he have anyone to train with him over tthe 400 training


Unless he changed coaches in the last few months that I'm not aware of, he's coached by Monte Stratton.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby ATK » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:42 am

With the 400 filled with guys 24 and younger already in the 43.9 - 44.5 range? sorry this event is just as packed as any other.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Blues » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:59 am

ATK wrote:With the 400 filled with guys 24 and younger already in the 43.9 - 44.5 range? sorry this event is just as packed as any other.


If the move up to the 400 is true, maybe he (or his coach) feels that his chances of being extremely competitive with the top 2 athletes in the new event might be better than in the 200.. His chances for that elusive Olympic medal could improve significantly as well, especially in the 4x4...

He's stated in the past that he doesn't like the 400, and in a 2012 interview, when asked for a word association with "foe", his answer was "The 400 meter dash. I'm friends with everyone pretty much". In the same interview, when asked what venue he dreaded and why, his answer was "The Penn Relays track. Usually when I go that means there's a 400m involved."

His 2012 200m best of 19.90 (which isn't his PR) is still over half a second faster than the PRs of Kirani James and Luguelin Santos, and is faster than Lashawn Merritt's 200m PR too. It'll be interesting to see how things transpire...
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Marlow » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:47 am

Blues wrote:He's stated in the past that he doesn't like the 400, and in a 2012 interview, when asked for a word association with "foe", his answer was "The 400 meter dash.

That's a psychological barrier that may be his biggest obstacle to success in the event. He's definitely got the talent.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby ATK » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:20 am

Blues wrote: His 2012 200m best of 19.90 (which isn't his PR) is still over half a second faster than the PRs of Kirani James and Luguelin Santos, and is faster than Lashawn Merritt's 200m PR too. It'll be interesting to see how things transpire...

Pretty much Irrelevant for predicting his 400m time on the world stage.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Marlow » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:25 am

ATK wrote:Pretty much Irrelevant for predicting his 400m time on the world stage.

I kinda disagree. His 200 times, and especially the way he finishes races, should be highly correlated to his predicted success. If he doesn't do well, I would NOT attribute it to his 'talent', but more to his training and execution.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:11 am

Marlow wrote:
ATK wrote:Pretty much Irrelevant for predicting his 400m time on the world stage.

I kinda disagree. His 200 times, and especially the way he finishes races, should be highly correlated to his predicted success. If he doesn't do well, I would NOT attribute it to his 'talent', but more to his training and execution.


So by that measure Bolt should be running 42s and if he does not then it is 'training and execution'?
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Marlow » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:14 pm

26mi235 wrote:So by that measure Bolt should be running 42s and if he does not then it is 'training and execution'?

100% absolutely yes!
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby marknhj » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:04 pm

Marlow wrote:
26mi235 wrote:So by that measure Bolt should be running 42s and if he does not then it is 'training and execution'?

100% absolutely yes!


Let me get this straight. Spearman isn't moving up because the Jamaicans are dominating the 200m but he is moving up because they're not dominating the 400m?

And should he fail to meet your expectations he must either be a lazy bastard who hasn't trained properly or not bright enough to run an effective race strategy? I suggest not identifying yourself should you ever want an autograph or picture!

edit: I forgot to ask for clarification that you also believe he may be a headcase (re: psychological barrier)
Last edited by marknhj on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby justrunfast » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:08 pm

Marlow wrote:
26mi235 wrote:So by that measure Bolt should be running 42s and if he does not then it is 'training and execution'?

100% absolutely yes!


If anyone could run 42s it could be bolt but does he have the heart to put in that sort of work? and does he need to?
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby mump boy » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:14 pm

LSR wrote:Costas Goulas ‏@lsabre
"So Wallace 'Prince' Spearmon moves up to 400m, that's a move I've long waited to see! This man's got the equipment to even threaten MJ's WR!"



not sure who this man really is but on his twitter page he is friendly with all the world elites. Anyone else heard of this? interesting move if true for many reasons

my thoughts are if this is true, it says hes lost confidence in himself to compete with the jamaicans over the 200, tired of not running a PR, the us 400 scene is not as strong as its been, these could all factor in


He's a track stan, who's been banned from every forum being disruptive but he knows his stuff

If it's true it's a great move for Wallace, apart from Kirani the events wide open right now.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Blues » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:55 pm

This is his tweet from August that was mentioned in various places in the media at the time as evidence of his desire to move up to the 400, as Marlow previously mentioned:

"I'm going to go ahead & say that was my last 200 of the season my body is tired. It was a good year. Next year, I'm going in 200 & 400!" he said on his twitter.

I tend to agree with Marlow that Wally's speed and long sprint endurance seems to suggest that he could excel in the 400 if he dedicated himself to achieving that goal.. Up to this point he hasn't possessed as much of the overall muscularity and the related explosiveness in the shorter sprints that Bolt and Blake have, that seem to now be a necessity for shorter sprint dominance... I also think it's a fair assumption that many of us probably feel that Bolt could be the best 400m runner in the world if he decided that's what he wanted to do, as long as he was willing to make the required sacrifices in training. Obviously Bolt hasn't dedicated himself to being the best he can be in the 400 since some time before 2008, when the significant improvements in his physique and in his already impressive ability wowed the world, so heaven only knows what type of monstrosity he's capable of producing in the 4 if he ever decides to focus on it. JMO
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Marlow » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm

marknhj wrote:Let me get this straight. Spearman isn't moving up because the Jamaicans are dominating the 200m but he is moving up because they're not dominating the 400m?
And should he fail to meet your expectations he must either be a lazy bastard who hasn't trained properly or not bright enough to run an effective race strategy? I suggest not identifying yourself should you ever want an autograph or picture!
edit: I forgot to ask for clarification that you also believe he may be a headcase (re: psychological barrier)

To address that first declarative sentence in your post, no, you do not have it straight. It must be that American English is as undeciperable to you as Limeyspeak is to us!
a, the premise is that WS has declared an intent to move up the the 400.
b. the speculation is that he has (correctly) deduced that the 200 is LOADED.
c. the speculation is that he has (correctly) deduced that he a better chance in the 400.
d. the premise is that he has shown great promise for the 400.
e. MY speculation is that if he were not to excel in the 400, I would be less inclined to blame his 'lack of talent' than improper preparation.
f. the premise is that he has stated a dislike of the 400.
g. MY speculation is that his dislike could become a self-fulfilling expectation and inhibit his success (motivation being a key factor in the success equation).
h. YOUR speculation is that I think he's a lazy bastard or a headcase. THAT premise is patently false.

There. Does that clarify your literacy issues? :wink:
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby 79. » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:47 pm

"N'est pas Michael JOHNSON qui veut..."
Years ago, he tried the 400m in some European meeting around 46"...
Let's wait and see with some specific 400m coaching.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby dunedine » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:48 pm

mump boy wrote:
He's a track stan, who's been banned from every forum being disruptive but he knows his stuff

If it's true it's a great move for Wallace, apart from Kirani the events wide open right now.


Sorry to rain on your parade, Mumpboy, but I haven't been banned from every forum and actually I haven't posted regularly to more than three of them, including this one (T&F).

AthleticsDaily 'expelled' me because of their anti-UKA obsession just because I was backing and praising the efforts of British athletes!

On Athletics Weekly you know very well what happened and I wouldn't like to go over that again. Further, I resurrected the AW forum out of the ashes and into life at the request of the then owner Matthew Fraser Moat.

Last, I haven't been banned from T&F but had problems with my password last March so switched to 'Dunedine' but decided to leave forums behind me once and for all because I felt like wasting my time.

'Distruptive'? No, actually I stand my ground when I feel I'm right, with thorough arguments and facts, and so many times I've proven correct - but some people don't like it, do they?

I apologise for the break in the thread, fellow posters, you can resume from now on.
Last edited by dunedine on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby dunedine » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:51 pm

By the way, as concerns Wallace Spearmon's potential move up to 400m I caught a certain tweet with a statement of his agent that he intends to do so.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby ATK » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:30 pm

mump boy wrote:If it's true it's a great move for Wallace, apart from Kirani the events wide open right now.

Huh?

Wide open? The chances of Spearmon over taking the rush of youngsters in this event are slim.

If he started training for the 400 this past fall, its very unlikely that he will take almost 1 second of his 7 year old PB to score a medal.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Blues » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:54 pm

ATK wrote:
Blues wrote: His 2012 200m best of 19.90 (which isn't his PR) is still over half a second faster than the PRs of Kirani James and Luguelin Santos, and is faster than Lashawn Merritt's 200m PR too. It'll be interesting to see how things transpire...

Pretty much Irrelevant for predicting his 400m time on the world stage.


I think "irrelevant" might be a slight overstatement.

There are many factors that can be used if we want to try to make an educated guess about Wallace Spearmon's potential for success at 400m. I may be wrong, but I'd think that being markedly faster than the best current 400m runners over the 200m distance, and having a history of relatively good speed endurance over 200m, might be two of the many valid factors that could influence our guess..
Last edited by Blues on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby 18.99s » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:17 pm

According to the IAAF web site, Spearmon is 50 years old, born in 1962. That's bad news for his 400m prospects, or any other distance.

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/united-sta ... e-spearmon
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby ATK » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:28 pm

Blues wrote:
ATK wrote:
Blues wrote: His 2012 200m best of 19.90 (which isn't his PR) is still over half a second faster than the PRs of Kirani James and Luguelin Santos, and is faster than Lashawn Merritt's 200m PR too. It'll be interesting to see how things transpire...

Pretty much Irrelevant for predicting his 400m time on the world stage.


I think "irrelevant" might be a slight overstatement.

There are many factors that can be used if we want to try to make an educated guess about Wallace Spearmon's potential for success at 400m. I may be wrong, but I'd think that being markedly faster than the best current 400m runners over the 200m distance, and having a history of relatively good speed endurance over 200m, might be two of the many valid factors that could influence on our guess..
there are tons of 200 runners who fit that bill, but wouldn't hold their own against above average 400 runners of the same time period.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Blues » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:38 pm

ATK wrote:
mump boy wrote:If it's true it's a great move for Wallace, apart from Kirani the events wide open right now.

Huh?

Wide open? The chances of Spearmon over taking the rush of youngsters in this event are slim.

If he started training for the 400 this past fall, its very unlikely that he will take almost 1 second of his 7 year old PB to score a medal.


But did he ever really train hard for the 400?.. As a shorter sprinter, an open 45.22 and a 4x4 split of 44.8 (2007 Penn Relays reported split) seems to hint at some potential should he decide to train more for the 400, doesn't it? And nobody said he has to accomplish his lifetime PR in the 400 by 2013... It could be a start for 2016, and regardless of how he progresses in the open 400, some athletes would consider a medal (especially a gold one) in an Olympic 4x4 to be better than no Olympic medal at all.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Blues » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:46 pm

ATK wrote:
Blues wrote:
ATK wrote:
Blues wrote: His 2012 200m best of 19.90 (which isn't his PR) is still over half a second faster than the PRs of Kirani James and Luguelin Santos, and is faster than Lashawn Merritt's 200m PR too. It'll be interesting to see how things transpire...

Pretty much Irrelevant for predicting his 400m time on the world stage.


I think "irrelevant" might be a slight overstatement.

There are many factors that can be used if we want to try to make an educated guess about Wallace Spearmon's potential for success at 400m. I may be wrong, but I'd think that being markedly faster than the best current 400m runners over the 200m distance, and having a history of relatively good speed endurance over 200m, might be two of the many valid factors that could influence on our guess..
there are tons of 200 runners who fit that bill, but wouldn't hold their own against above average 400 runners of the same time period.


Maybe.. But in addition to the qualities I mentioned, did they all run 45.22 and split sub 45 as 200m specialists, while seldom running a 400? And did they all also adjust their training to be more 400m oriented, like Spearmon allegedly will do now?
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Dutra5 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:52 pm

18.99s wrote:According to the IAAF web site, Spearmon is 50 years old, born in 1962. That's bad news for his 400m prospects, or any other distance.

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/united-sta ... e-spearmon


Not necessarily incorrect. Wallace Spearmon Sr. was born on that date.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby 18.99s » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:10 am

Dutra5 wrote:
18.99s wrote:According to the IAAF web site, Spearmon is 50 years old, born in 1962. That's bad news for his 400m prospects, or any other distance.

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/united-sta ... e-spearmon


Not necessarily incorrect. Wallace Spearmon Sr. was born on that date.


But the picture on that page is of Spearmon Jr., and I arrived there by clicking Spearmon's name on the 2012 list for 200m (http://www.iaaf.org/records/toplists/sp ... enior/2012)
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby ATK » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:40 am

18.99s wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
18.99s wrote:According to the IAAF web site, Spearmon is 50 years old, born in 1962. That's bad news for his 400m prospects, or any other distance.

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/united-sta ... e-spearmon


Not necessarily incorrect. Wallace Spearmon Sr. was born on that date.


But the picture on that page is of Spearmon Jr., and I arrived there by clicking Spearmon's name on the 2012 list for 200m (http://www.iaaf.org/records/toplists/sp ... enior/2012)

CAnt tell if you are joking or not...
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby 18.99s » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:58 am

ATK wrote:CAnt tell if you are joking or not...

I know he's not really 50 years old. But the screwups on the IAAF site are real, as you can see for yourself.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby marknhj » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:06 am

Marlow wrote:There. Does that clarify your literacy issues? :wink:


I think you should work on your composition and not cover your ass by trying to have it both ways :D

Personally, I think the assumption that his speed endurance is at a higher level than other 200m runners is exaggerated. If you run the first part of the race slower than nearly everyone else of course you're going to have more left in the last 50m. I have no idea how he'll do in the 400m; if I had to guess, it would be at best the high 44's this year in one off races. I have no idea how rounds will impact him.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:39 am

I'm going to go out on the limb and predict that he'll struggle to surpass Tyson Gay's PR of 44.89.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Marlow » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:31 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I'm going to go out on the limb and predict that he'll struggle to surpass Tyson Gay's PR of 44.89.

If he goes through with his threat to seriously train for and run it this year, I'll bet the 'under' on 44.50, which is the official Vegas line right now ( :wink: ).
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby ATK » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:00 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:I'm going to go out on the limb and predict that he'll struggle to surpass Tyson Gay's PR of 44.89.

If he goes through with his threat to seriously train for and run it this year, I'll bet the 'under' on 44.50, which is the official Vegas line right now ( :wink: ).

Do you really think 44.5 is that easy to achieve?
Spearmon has nothing more going for him than any other 19.8x 200 sprinter of the past few years.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Marlow » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:59 am

ATK wrote:Do you really think 44.5 is that easy to achieve?

If you have a 19.65 PR and are still near your peak (admittedly on the back side of the crest) and you finish as well as WS always does, yes, 44.50 is eminently doable, but also yes, you'd have to perform your due diligence in preparation.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby ATK » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:38 pm

Marlow wrote:
ATK wrote:Do you really think 44.5 is that easy to achieve?

If you have a 19.65 PR and are still near your peak (admittedly on the back side of the crest) and you finish as well as WS always does, yes, 44.50 is eminently doable, but also yes, you'd have to perform your due diligence in preparation.

A 19.65 PR from 2006. Next best is a 19.79 (which converts up to 19.8x...)
Like someone said, he finishes as well as he does because he starts the way he does. The races where he actually runs a relatively good turn, he doesn't finish like a train as usual.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby enpsalmx » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:09 pm

18.99s wrote:According to the IAAF web site, Spearmon is 50 years old, born in 1962. That's bad news for his 400m prospects, or any other distance.

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/united-sta ... e-spearmon



They are confused with his father whom ran in the early 80's.
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Gabriella » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:07 am

The USA has had a few lean years of late in this event, so maybe Spearmon can inject some life into this event from a US perspective. However, I do agree that this is generally a young mans event (Michael Johnson aside) and Wallace may find he is a wee bit too late in moving up.

On the subject of him being a great finisher in the 200m, don't be fooled into thinking there is a direct correlation between 200m finishing speed and the 400m. See Marita Koch, often closed at the end of a 200m by other 100/200 sprinters, such as Ottey and Ashford, despite being amazing at 400m. The events are run at different maximum speeds over different distances.

I remember seeing Wallace run in the 4x400 indoors in the UK and before his leg I was thinking "this is it, he's going to blast a wicked leg" and in fact he was mediocre. If he doesn't overcome his mental block as others have pointed out, he will have trouble in this event. But as the great Jarmila Kratochvilova said, "it hurts whether you run a 49 or a 51" so my advice to Wallace would be; dont be a pussy, just go for it :D
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Re: Wallace Spearmon to move up to the 400?

Postby Gleason » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:23 pm

Marlow wrote:He's been 'threatening' this for a while (esp. last Sept after the OG). It's not a ceding of the 200 to the Jams as much as it is a realization of the situation and that the coast is clearer at 400, where his speed endurance pays better dividends (to mix metaphors). If the training goes well, I easily see him Top 3 in the USA, since we seem to be in the doldrums lately. Low-44 for sure. Sub-44? That's a wholenuther zip code.

I agree. If he runs the 400 in Spring meets and does well, why not enter there at USATF with the 200 as a backup if he fails to make the 400 final? If he makes the 400 final, but fails to make the top three there, I assume that he'll be invited to many European meets for the balance of the 2013 season.
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