Dave wrote:To your point, there was a 1-2 minute video featured on the front page of the indoor world championships from 2012 showing Eaton as he went for the world record. The other athletes in that video were so far out of Eaton's league, it was almost comical. I understand that multis are different from any other event, but can you imagine a 4% margin of victory in any other event at this level? ie 40cm in the PV, .4sec in the 100, or almost a meter in the LJ?
Helsinki 2005 POS BIB ATHLETE COUNTRY MARK DETAIL 1 632 Elena ISINBAEVA RUS 5.01 WR 2 564 Monika PYREK POL 4.60 3 162 Pavla RYBOVÁ CZE 4.50
and how would 4% equal 1m in the LJ ?
Methinks he meant to say 1 foot. Long Jump results: Mexico City - 1968
Mighty Favog wrote:I was disappointed to see Merritt all the way down at 4th, but this was an unusually tough year at the top, what with three "are you kidding me?" types of World Records. Merritt had more losses than the others but did not go out if his way to avoid the tough competition.
totallt agree. in my book merritt had the best ever season by a high hurdler and deserved a much higher ranking !
Dave wrote:To your point, there was a 1-2 minute video featured on the front page of the indoor world championships from 2012 showing Eaton as he went for the world record. The other athletes in that video were so far out of Eaton's league, it was almost comical. I understand that multis are different from any other event, but can you imagine a 4% margin of victory in any other event at this level? ie 40cm in the PV, .4sec in the 100, or almost a meter in the LJ?
Helsinki 2005 POS BIB ATHLETE COUNTRY MARK DETAIL 1 632 Elena ISINBAEVA RUS 5.01 WR 2 564 Monika PYREK POL 4.60 3 162 Pavla RYBOVÁ CZE 4.50
and how would 4% equal 1m in the LJ ?
Methinks he meant to say 1 foot. Long Jump results: Mexico City - 1968
I was just sloppy. 8.90 * .04=.356 ~=1ft though. I should have stuck with running examples. Based on the vault and LJ example provided above. I guess Eaton's margin isn't completely unheard of. That said, being in the same league with Issy and Beamon on their best days is a good place to be.
Dave wrote:I was just sloppy. 8.90 * .04=.356 ~=1ft though. I should have stuck with running examples. Based on the vault and LJ example provided above. I guess Eaton's margin isn't completely unheard of. That said, being in the same league with Issy and Beamon on their best days is a good place to be.
So true, Dave. And I think, years from now, athletes will be honored to have someone say; "You're in the same league as Eaton."
Dave wrote: That said, being in the same league with Issy and Beamon on their best days is a good place to be.
What's the % of breaking the DEc WR by 13 points ?? because i'm sure they did it by much more than that !!
AE was brilliant this year but let's not get carried away, the competition wasn't so hot was it ?Rudisha lead the greatest depth 800m of all time and Merrit was racing against the highest calibre competition ever, Eaton had an out of sorts Trey Hardee and that's about it
Dave wrote: That said, being in the same league with Issy and Beamon on their best days is a good place to be.
What's the % of breaking the DEc WR by 13 points ?? because i'm sure they did it by much more than that !!
AE was brilliant this year but let's not get carried away, the competition wasn't so hot was it ?Rudisha lead the greatest depth 800m of all time and Merrit was racing against the highest calibre competition ever, Eaton had an out of sorts Trey Hardee and that's about it
I was thinking about how they dominated their competitors rather than beating the WR. AE has been on a multi year rise. AOY criteria require that only the outdoor events be considered, but I was looking at both indoor and outdoor. Is there anyone other than Hardee or Clay who could possibly given AE any sort of real competition over the past 5-10 years? Is there anyone whom we expect to challenge him anytime soon?
No question that Rudisha is brilliant. The OG 800 was probably the best race I have ever observed and it is unlikely to be the final word in an amazing career.
Eaton's WR was made under less-than-auspicious weather conditions. How much did he lose from just the 400, for instance. Great weather might have given him 9100++ (although I bet he does not run faster than 4:15 in that case).
As for Beamon, just after his jump it started pouring rain. Contrast with the TJ where the WR went several times. Also, it probably should be 8.90w, without anything strong as a back up.
dbirds wrote:Not to mention - a heptathlon wr even though t&f news refused to acknowledge it
I agree. IMHO indoor events that are contested at the World Indoor Championships (60/HH/3000/multis) that have a similar outdoor event (100/HH/5000/multis)should be considered in AOY if an athlete chooses to compete indoors.
Flumpy wrote:But the ones that are similar are counted.
The ones you mention aren't similar, especially the multis.
The 60/100 and the 60h/110h you have already connected, the 1000/1500 is not too far off, the SP, PV, HJ and LJ are identical. The only difference is the seven versus ten; does anybody have any illusions that Eaton would not have won a ten-event contest indoors. These two are not widely dis-similar [I understand that Eaton gets only one great event while adding two mediocre ones but that would have affected the outcome with no more than 0.01%(he won by 10%) beyond injuring himself in the 400]. This mapping is especially the case because you cannot do more than 2 or 3 decathlons at a high level during the short summer season. Eaton is hammered for not setting a OR and not competing in three decathlons, and yet it was only because of an injury and the fact that he had already destroyed the field that he backed off in the 1500 and then called it a season.
Flumpy wrote:But the ones that are similar are counted.
The ones you mention aren't similar, especially the multis.
The 60/100 and the 60h/110h you have already connected, the 1000/1500 is not too far off, the SP, PV, HJ and LJ are identical. The only difference is the seven versus ten; does anybody have any illusions that Eaton would not have won a ten-event contest indoors. These two are not widely dis-similar [I understand that Eaton gets only one great event while adding two mediocre ones but that would have affected the outcome with no more than 0.01%(he won by 10%) beyond injuring himself in the 400]. This mapping is especially the case because you cannot do more than 2 or 3 decathlons at a high level during the short summer season. Eaton is hammered for not setting a OR and not competing in three decathlons, and yet it was only because of an injury and the fact that he had already destroyed the field that he backed off in the 1500 and then called it a season.
Some thoughts;
1. As has been noted before on this board, the 60/60H & 100/110H are different. They are both sprints, but indoors rewards a fast starter to a greater degree than outdoors. Hypothetical ... let's say Gatlin beat Bolt indoors in the 60 IWC last year. Would anyone use that to even partially offset Bolt's outdoor Olympic 100?
2. Not every athlete treats indoors the same. Some compete hard, some go to different events, some stay away. T&FN has an Indoor AOY to recognize the premier athletes in the undercover campaign.
3. If we use indoors and/or "similar" events, then how should we weight distance events? Example: Mosop ran a spectacular 30K WR at Eugene in 2011, but it mattered not in either the 10K or Marathon rankings. Another example: Back in the day, Martin McGrady ruled the indoor 600. His races against Lee Evans were amazing, and he also defeated Ralph Doubell. So there we have someone defeating two Olympic gold medalists, but whose victories rightly had no effect on his rankings in either the 400 or 800 outdoors.
I think that indoor and other events should be considered as a supplement to an AOY season. For example, in 1968 McGrady tried the 400, 800 and 400H but couldn't qualify for the Olympic Trials in either event.
Gleason wrote:I think that indoor and other events should be considered as a supplement to an AOY season. For example, in 1968 McGrady tried the 400, 800 and 400H but couldn't qualify for the Olympic Trials in either event.
McGrady is a pretty poor example. While the guy was awesome indoors, he seemed to completely disappear, like no other athlete that I can remember, when the sun shined.
Gleason wrote:I think that indoor and other events should be considered as a supplement to an AOY season. For example, in 1968 McGrady tried the 400, 800 and 400H but couldn't qualify for the Olympic Trials in either event.
McGrady is a pretty poor example. While the guy was awesome indoors, he seemed to completely disappear, like no other athlete that I can remember, when the sun shined.
Maybe he was really a vampire...
My point, exactly.
But what memories! I still remember Madison Square Garden, packed to the rafters, McGrady & Evans in the 600. All you ever have to say is 1:07.6, and anyone from that era will get that far-off glazed look of wonder, because they know exactly what you are referring to. I was standing & yelling & screaming with my brother & others from my high school track team at the most amazing indoor performance I ever saw.
Flumpy wrote:But the ones that are similar are counted.
The ones you mention aren't similar, especially the multis.
The 60/100 and the 60h/110h you have already connected, the 1000/1500 is not too far off, the SP, PV, HJ and LJ are identical. The only difference is the seven versus ten; does anybody have any illusions that Eaton would not have won a ten-event contest indoors. These two are not widely dis-similar [I understand that Eaton gets only one great event while adding two mediocre ones but that would have affected the outcome with no more than 0.01%(he won by 10%) beyond injuring himself in the 400]. This mapping is especially the case because you cannot do more than 2 or 3 decathlons at a high level during the short summer season. Eaton is hammered for not setting a OR and not competing in three decathlons, and yet it was only because of an injury and the fact that he had already destroyed the field that he backed off in the 1500 and then called it a season.
Nelli Cooman was 6 times european champion 2 times world champion and WR holder over 60m. Her best over 100m was a solitary european bronze medal and a pb of 11.06, don't tell me they're the same event
As for the multis, they may not effect the result for Ashton Eaton but they certainly will for nearly everyone else. If you're an athletes who relies on your heavy throws you're f****d indoors where as anyone who excels at sprints or jumps has a massive advantage.
I was saying given the scoring difference, he could have withstood the effects of adding those three events using anyone's multis resume given that one of them was the 400 where he would have outpointed everyone, with the strong guys being distanced the most.
As for the NC observation, since the multi guys have to be good across the 100/110h/400 and 1500, I doubt many of them are among that subset that cannot bridge the 60/100 gap and the hurdles are the same, which is more important than the differential speed in the 60/100 case. In addition, the 'equating' of the two was done above my post.
bobguild76 wrote:But what memories! I still remember Madison Square Garden, packed to the rafters, McGrady & Evans in the 600. All you ever have to say is 1:07.6, and anyone from that era will get that far-off glazed look of wonder . . .
Yup! I'm sitting here with a shit-eating grin just thinking about that fantastic race. Thank you for mentioning it and bringing up.
Long Jump results: Mexico City - 1968