Bowermans


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Re: Bowermans

Postby Marlow » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:16 am

gh wrote:NCAA team-think is applied to what should be purely an individual award.

The Heisman can't be awarded to an 'individual' player, because no QB could win without linemen and receivers, and no running back could do it without blockers, and no receiver could do it w/o the QB. Could not an AF/SRR type runner win the Bman with individual AND relay performances, esp. if they result in a NatChamp?
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Re: Bowermans

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:41 am

gh wrote:I just don't want to see the Bowermans go the way of the Heisman, where the best QB on a highly-rated team is the same as a sprinter who has a chance to run 3 events for the team champion. It's an easy formula to fall into, paraticularly when NCAA team-think is applied to what should be purely an individual award.

I agree with you gh, despite the fact that LSU, which has won 31 NCAA team championships and more than twice as many NCAA relay titles than the #2 school on the list, would benefit more from team-think than any other school in the nation. Keep in mind that unlike in football, where the team you're on can have a huge impact on individual performance, that's not the case in track and field with regards to the individual events. With the same coaches, Duncan, Theisen and Barrett would have performed the same no matter what school they went to, but Johnny Manziel wouldn't have performed the same if he had gone to a weak FBS school, not mention an FCS school, no matter who was coaching him.
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Re: Bowermans

Postby Marlow » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:40 pm

gh wrote:Perhaps just a tad hard to get excited about an award based on a season that officially ended 6.5 months ago.

Yet here we sit with AOYs, POYs and Annual Rankings that could have been made (Marathon exc.) 3.5 months ago . . .
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Re: Bowermans

Postby ATK » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:00 pm

Marlow wrote:
gh wrote:Perhaps just a tad hard to get excited about an award based on a season that officially ended 6.5 months ago.

Yet here we sit with AOYs, POYs and Annual Rankings that could have been made (Marathon exc.) 3.5 months ago . . .

Collecting an compiling all that data/votes in a week? doubt it.
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Re: Bowermans

Postby Marlow » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:35 am

ATK wrote:
Marlow wrote:
gh wrote:Perhaps just a tad hard to get excited about an award based on a season that officially ended 6.5 months ago.

Yet here we sit with AOYs, POYs and Annual Rankings that could have been made (Marathon exc.) 3.5 months ago . . .

Collecting an compiling all that data/votes in a week? doubt it.

My point is that the NCAA waited till the end of the year, when many awards are given out for 'annual' (even when the 'year' ends much earlier) accomplishments. The Heisman is one of the few that comes out in a timely manner. The Bowerman (and AOY) was part of the norm (calendar year-end).
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Re: Bowermans

Postby ATK » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:27 am

Marlow wrote:
ATK wrote:
Marlow wrote:
gh wrote:Perhaps just a tad hard to get excited about an award based on a season that officially ended 6.5 months ago.

Yet here we sit with AOYs, POYs and Annual Rankings that could have been made (Marathon exc.) 3.5 months ago . . .

Collecting an compiling all that data/votes in a week? doubt it.

My point is that the NCAA waited till the end of the year, when many awards are given out for 'annual' (even when the 'year' ends much earlier) accomplishments. The Heisman is one of the few that comes out in a timely manner. The Bowerman (and AOY) was part of the norm (calendar year-end).

Seems more like you were saying the AOY takes to long to be announced as well...
I think the AOY is announced in a timely manner. Considering the outdoor season can end anywhere between early sep and late oct(maybe even later) depending on the year.

But having the college season end in june, and announcing the college "AOY" when some of thoes athletes have already started the indoor season is pretty rediculous. Especially if nothing between NCAA's and the announcement is supposed to count.
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Re: Bowermans

Postby Tuariki » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:53 am

ATK wrote:Seems more like you were saying the AOY takes to long to be announced as well...
I think the AOY is announced in a timely manner. Considering the outdoor season can end anywhere between early sep and late oct(maybe even later) depending on the year.

But having the college season end in june, and announcing the college "AOY" when some of thoes athletes have already started the indoor season is pretty rediculous. Especially if nothing between NCAA's and the announcement is supposed to count.


In NZ the last competition was scheduled NZ time Saturday 30 December. And every year there is usually a number of US collegiate athletes, including some kiwis, who come down to compete in NZ during December.
As the year actually ends on 31 December it is therefore incumbent for the organisers of AOY for TnF to actually wait for the end of the year. Unlike team sports with defined seasons it is possible for a TnF athlete to set an outdoor record on 31 December.
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Re: Bowermans

Postby Marlow » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:29 am

ATK wrote:Seems more like you were saying the AOY takes to long to be announced as well...
I think the AOY is announced in a timely manner. Considering the outdoor season can end anywhere between early sep and late oct(maybe even later) depending on the year.
But having the college season end in june, and announcing the college "AOY" when some of thoes athletes have already started the indoor season is pretty rediculous. Especially if nothing between NCAA's and the announcement is supposed to count.

The outdoor season ended (effectively, i.e., there are no more significant data points thereafter) on Sep 7 with the last GP/GL meet. Over three and a half months ago.
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Re: Bowermans

Postby tandfman » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:00 pm

Marlow wrote:The outdoor season ended (effectively, i.e., there are no more significant data points thereafter) on Sep 7 with the last GP/GL meet. Over three and a half months ago.

What about all the fall marathons? I believe the marathon does count for T&FN's AOY.
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Re: Bowermans

Postby Marlow » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:01 pm

tandfman wrote:
Marlow wrote:The outdoor season ended (effectively, i.e., there are no more significant data points thereafter) on Sep 7 with the last GP/GL meet. Over three and a half months ago.

What about all the fall marathons? I believe the marathon does count for T&FN's AOY.

I already noted that exception. T&FN used to list that separately after the annual issue .
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Re: Bowermans

Postby ATK » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:03 pm

Marlow wrote:
ATK wrote:Seems more like you were saying the AOY takes to long to be announced as well...
I think the AOY is announced in a timely manner. Considering the outdoor season can end anywhere between early sep and late oct(maybe even later) depending on the year.
But having the college season end in june, and announcing the college "AOY" when some of thoes athletes have already started the indoor season is pretty rediculous. Especially if nothing between NCAA's and the announcement is supposed to count.

The outdoor season ended (effectively, i.e., there are no more significant data points thereafter) on Sep 7 with the last GP/GL meet. Over three and a half months ago.

Whats your definition of significant? Rieti was on the 9th...

The point is pretty clear though. The Bowerman is announced way to late for what the award is meant for.
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Re: Bowermans

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:16 pm

Marlow wrote:
tandfman wrote:
Marlow wrote:The outdoor season ended (effectively, i.e., there are no more significant data points thereafter) on Sep 7 with the last GP/GL meet. Over three and a half months ago.

What about all the fall marathons? I believe the marathon does count for T&FN's AOY.

I already noted that exception. T&FN used to list that separately after the annual issue .


They did the event separately, but for AOY they cannot readily do that. Thus, fall marathons can have an impact. Baseball's awards occur not that long after the season, and similarly with football (American) and basketball.
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