T&FN Favourite Olympic Moment Poll Results No1 David Rudisha

[Pego]

I'm going to play it by ear and maybe talk to individual voters before adding up anything that may be contentious

I just don't want 'moments' that a lot of people favour to be low ranked because everyone chose specifics

Does that sound fair ?

Yes, I'd say you should use the judge's prerogative and streamline certain/most/all submissions to fit your Gestalt.

[lionelp1]

If you take Zatopeks great treble in @52 it was not a great moment to have seen him win either the 5 or 10 K , probably his first Marathon, yes , but clearly the great "moment" was the act of chalking up all three in a week.... lets call it a "culmination" moment. However should not the rules clearly state that any "moment" must be in the same Games... so for example if ones favourite moment was when Oerter won his 4th gold or Lewis won his 4th LJ Gold the culmination was the moment when they actually in one games achieved a fourth in a row... am I making myself clear? Mump , your thoughts?

[lionelp1]

Is it being too bolshie to request posters to give the reasons why they chose the particular "moments" after they have done so on PM but of course in the TFNForum.

[gh]

Can we include Paralympic as well as Olympic athletics?

Do that and you might as well include gymnastics, swimming, whatever. I would posit for the great majority of people, the Paralympics is as far removed from the general thrust of our sport as are those other disciplines.

[Marlow]

Do that and you might as well include gymnastics, swimming, whatever. I would posit for the great majority of people, the Paralympics is as far removed from the general thrust of our sport as are those other disciplines.

I may get booed off the stage here, but what I've seen of the Paralympics (not a lot), it seems like we have the Blade Runner issue in spades: everyone has a slightly different version of the 'limitation' and so it isn't a 'fair' competition.

[gh]

Is it being too bolshie to request posters to give the reasons why they chose the particular "moments" after they have done so on PM but of course in the TFNForum.

I don't know about "bolshie," but I suspect it would remove a lot of the fun from it for some people. Somethings are wonderful just because they are, and any attempt to explain it only diminishes the magic.

[dj]

A moment is a moment..one event, which might include multiple people (relay) but no cumulative/multiple moments ascribed to one person.

Look at USATF's list of top 25 moments in their history:
http://www.usatf.org/promotions/Top25Moments/

Their no. 3 'moment' was something that lasted 10 years

Some problems with a streak as a moment. It's cumulative, thus the last marker in the streak is the "moment" for that streak. Or, one can choose either the moment at which the previous record was tied or broken.

When DiMaggio hit in 56 straight games, which game became the one most talked about? The 56th game, the 44th when he tied Willie Keeler's record, the 45th when he broke the record, or the streak-ending 57th game? It's the 57th game, which is about the only reason a current baseball fan has ever heard of Ken Keltner.

Do you remember Moses's last win or that Danny Harris beat him to end the streak? And do you even know what the previous 400H streak record was and who held it?

[mump boy]

If you take Zatopeks great treble in @52 it was not a great moment to have seen him win either the 5 or 10 K , probably his first Marathon, yes , but clearly the great "moment" was the act of chalking up all three in a week.... lets call it a "culmination" moment. However should not the rules clearly state that any "moment" must be in the same Games... so for example if ones favourite moment was when Oerter won his 4th gold or Lewis won his 4th LJ Gold the culmination was the moment when they actually in one games achieved a fourth in a row... am I making myself clear? Mump , your thoughts?

Perfectly clear and agreed

[mump boy]

Is it being too bolshie to request posters to give the reasons why they chose the particular "moments" after they have done so on PM but of course in the TFNForum.

That's the whole point of the thread, i hope everyone will tell us why they chose specific moments and start discussions

[mump boy]

Can we include Paralympic as well as Olympic athletics?

Do that and you might as well include gymnastics, swimming, whatever. I would posit for the great majority of people, the Paralympics is as far removed from the general thrust of our sport as are those other disciplines.

I agree but in the spirit of equality i see no problem in a few people naming Paralympic moments. I can't imagine there will be many

[mump boy]

Do that and you might as well include gymnastics, swimming, whatever. I would posit for the great majority of people, the Paralympics is as far removed from the general thrust of our sport as are those other disciplines.

I may get booed off the stage here, but what I've seen of the Paralympics (not a lot), it seems like we have the Blade Runner issue in spades: everyone has a slightly different version of the 'limitation' and so it isn't a 'fair' competition.

This ^ x 10

[mump boy]

Is it being too bolshie to request posters to give the reasons why they chose the particular "moments" after they have done so on PM but of course in the TFNForum.

I don't know about "bolshie," but I suspect it would remove a lot of the fun from it for some people. Somethings are wonderful just because they are, and any attempt to explain it only diminishes the magic.

The whole point is to encourage discussion, i'd love to hear people's reasons for their favourite moments but there is no compulsion to contribute anything other than your list

[preston]

Is it being too bolshie to request posters to give the reasons why they chose the particular "moments" after they have done so on PM but of course in the TFNForum.

I don't know about "bolshie," but I suspect it would remove a lot of the fun from it for some people. Somethings are wonderful just because they are, and any attempt to explain it only diminishes the magic.

The whole point is to encourage discussion, i'd love to hear people's reasons for their favourite moments but there is no compulsion to contribute anything other than your list

The why is very important.

Example: I rank Fani Halkia's 2004 Athens win very high and Mump can't rank it low enough. It's that type of contrast where I can "equate" that win in my mind to Mo's double or his 10k win or even the reshuffling of the order so Brits could sing the national anthem to close the night in Mumps!

[Daisy]

The whole point is to encourage discussion, i'd love to hear people's reasons for their favourite moments

I agree, and no one is forced to do it.

[gh]

color me an unrepentant elitist; if somebody's choice doesn't resonate ("make sense") off the top, then I really don't care why you liked it; it's obviously a personal reason that is little interest to the masses.

[26mi235]

I would think that if one of the top moments was commented on it would both be interesting and not overwhelming. I would think that either #1 or a relatively unusual selection would be the most interesting to read (e.g., one seen in person or some personal connection).

[gh]

the Grinch must have stolen my Xmas spirit.

I find the thought of somebody's "personal connection" for a major Olympic moment to be the track equivalent of being at a friend's house and hearing the dreaded "have you seen the slides of our vacation?"

[preston]

the Grinch must have stolen my Xmas spirit.

I find the thought of somebody's "personal connection" for a major Olympic moment to be the track equivalent of being at a friend's house and hearing the dreaded "have you seen the slides of our vacation?"

Yup, makes sense. Personal connection is overblown; everyone should feel the same way

-John Walker? He only won one 15...at least 20 others just like him, right?
-Daley Thompson? So...
-imagine all the people wondering what Peter Norman is doing up there with Carlos and Smith
-Benoit Samuelson...just another Marathoner right?
-Moses? Come on, the guy came out of nowhere! Morehouse?
-Wilma Rudolph? And? was she even first?
-Liu winning a gold in 110h. China has a billion people. Surely they could find one with top sprint ability, right?

You're right, gh! It's all about the numbers...the personal is superfluous. OK, everybody, you don't have to note the why!

[kuha]

the Grinch must have stolen my Xmas spirit.

I find the thought of somebody's "personal connection" for a major Olympic moment to be the track equivalent of being at a friend's house and hearing the dreaded "have you seen the slides of our vacation?"

But your original comment was more true than not. Explanations of these things are basically tautologies: I really like this because....I really like it. The reasons range from the objectively obvious to personal stuff that won't mean anything to anyone else.

[mump boy]

If people would like to post their reasons great, if they don't then don't !!

[Daisy]

I like to read the rationales as I sometimes see a perspective I had not thought about before.

[Mighty Favog]

the Grinch must have stolen my Xmas spirit.

I find the thought of somebody's "personal connection" for a major Olympic moment to be the track equivalent of being at a friend's house and hearing the dreaded "have you seen the slides of our vacation?"

Point taken, and mostly I agree. I don't think I can justify putting a guy winning HJ silver on the list even if his two younger brothers happen to currently be students of mine (Kynard). On the other hand, I can easily justify putting Dave Wottle's win on the list, and I'll secretly give him extra points because he ran for my alma mater.

On a larger scale, giving preference to a great moment just because of the nationality of the person in question is still on some level a "personal" connection, and I can't imagine that any of us have a problem with that.

Also, no one under 40 even knows what a slide is anymore.

[mump boy]

the Grinch must have stolen my Xmas spirit.

I find the thought of somebody's "personal connection" for a major Olympic moment to be the track equivalent of being at a friend's house and hearing the dreaded "have you seen the slides of our vacation?"

Point taken, and mostly I agree. I don't think I can justify putting a guy winning HJ silver on the list even if his two younger brothers happen to currently be students of mine (Kynard). On the other hand, I can easily justify putting Dave Wottle's win on the list, and I'll secretly give him extra points because he ran for my alma mater.

On a larger scale, giving preference to a great moment just because of the nationality of the person in question is still on some level a "personal" connection, and I can't imagine that any of us have a problem with that.

Also, no one under 40 even knows what a slide is anymore.

There's no problem with voting for something very personal (like you know the person) just as long as your list is not full of them

We're definitely going to have a rule limiting votes to only half for your own country though

I'm still undecided if to ask for list of 10 or 20

[Pego]

I'm still undecided if to ask for list of 10 or 20

I vote for 10. It becomes much less clear after that.

[mump boy]

I'm still undecided if to ask for list of 10 or 20

I vote for 10. It becomes much less clear after that.

Also MUCH more work

You've persuaded me

[Flumpy]

color me an unrepentant elitist; if somebody's choice doesn't resonate ("make sense") off the top, then I really don't care why you liked it; it's obviously a personal reason that is little interest to the masses.

In that case you may as well close the whole forum

[bushop]

I find the thought of somebody's "personal connection" for a major Olympic moment to be...

... a way for novices like myself and my athletes to learn about the specialness of Olympic moments we had no previos knowledge of... a track & field history lesson.

[Flumpy]

Exacty.

There are going to be loads of moments in my list that won't make any sense at all without an explanation.

Not every 'favourite' moment is going to be a gold medal or WR.

Personally I vote for 20. I could easily come up with 50 so whittling it down to 10 will be impossible + more moments means less fun

[gh]

color me an unrepentant elitist; if somebody's choice doesn't resonate ("make sense") off the top, then I really don't care why you liked it; it's obviously a personal reason that is little interest to the masses.

In that case you may as well close the whole forum

Bah, humbug! Where's Tiny Tim so I can kick his crutch out from under him? (I could learn to like this crusty curmudgeon stuff )

[ExCoastRanger]

We're definitely going to have a rule limiting votes to only half for your own country though....

That seems like it has the potential making of a list of some personal favorites, plus some others that had to be listed just to complete the list.

[Blues]

let me make this easy and simply point out the slam-dunk best moment ahead of time, save all the sturm und drang: what could possibly top igniting the flame in Seoul and not realizing that a covey of pigeons had taken up residence? Hello roast squab!

LOL... And to think that I discounted all those rumors about the T&FN boardkeeper having a sadistic streak....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-liu1JVo1g

[Dave]

let me make this easy and simply point out the slam-dunk best moment ahead of time, save all the sturm und drang: what could possibly top igniting the flame in Seoul and not realizing that a covey of pigeons had taken up residence? Hello roast squab!

Ok so the contest is for positions 2-10.

That is too wonderful for words (unless you were an organize or pigeon).

[lionelp1]

I found it very easy and quick to come up with over 20 greatest T and F "moments" from 17 OGs since the end of WW2. I am ready at the starting gates for the off and to be honest if I have to reduce my list to Ten "moments" it will be a little tough. Surely one has to give reasons later for ones choices otherwise, whats the point.

As an elitist( and wtf is the OG about but naked elitism... not too many are interested in a n athlete coming last in their heat etc) I cannot claim much interest in whether somebody went to ones college and other footling reasons, but thats the fave moment for some... just NOT for me.

[mump boy]

We're definitely going to have a rule limiting votes to only half for your own country though....

That seems like it has the potential making of a list of some personal favorites, plus some others that had to be listed just to complete the list.

Or a way of encouraging people stretch their horizons and appreciate the sport as a whole and not just their countrymen winning gold medals

I could quite easily do a top 20 of UK moments but it's much more interesting if i have to look further at less obvious things to appreciate.

[mump boy]

I would rather do 20 moments and i'm happy to do so as long as everyone understands it will take longer to get the results and there may be a few mistakes here and there !!

I will post a list of definitive guidelines by the end of the day and entries will be open tomorrow