Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold


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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby j-a-m » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:20 am

18.99s wrote:In general that may be true, but in the case of world record holders, busting them 8 or 15 or 30 years later would be very good for the sport. Imagine what it would mean to current athletes if some of the records still standing from the 1980s got wiped off the books.

Does the statute of limitations apply to WRs as such? If the IAAF were to nullify a WR, without banning the athlete or taking away any individual achievements (other than being listed as WR holder), would that athlete have a case?
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby j-a-m » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:24 am

26mi235 wrote:For those 1984 samples, how reliable would those tests be (both false negatives and false positives)?

The issue is probably how reliable the procedures of taking and storing the samples were in 1984, i.e. were they potentially mixed up or something like that? If something went wrong with the samples back then, there's virtually no way for an athlete to prove that; and that's one of the reasons a statute of limitations is that important.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby j-a-m » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:32 am

18.99s wrote:However, as I have said before in this thread, having statutes of limitations is not a good idea for some things, and drug testing seems like something where it shouldn't exist. The victims of doping are the athletes who didn't dope -- unlike somebody who was robbed or is owed a debt, the athletes who have been wronged by dopers had neither the knowledge nor power to anything about the mutli-year delays in testing and retesting.

They did have the relevant knowledge, didn't they? Comparing the case of a silver medalist to the example of a stolen purse:

Your purse is gone. You probably lost it, but someone may have stolen it. There's only one suspect, the event has been caught on tape, but the tape is inconclusive. Ten years later, new technology emerges that enables you to further zoom into the videotape. Wouldn't the statute of limitations have started to run in the very beginning, given you had all the facts?
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Pego » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:08 am

j-a-m wrote:
18.99s wrote:However, as I have said before in this thread, having statutes of limitations is not a good idea for some things, and drug testing seems like something where it shouldn't exist. The victims of doping are the athletes who didn't dope -- unlike somebody who was robbed or is owed a debt, the athletes who have been wronged by dopers had neither the knowledge nor power to anything about the mutli-year delays in testing and retesting.

They did have the relevant knowledge, didn't they? Comparing the case of a silver medalist to the example of a stolen purse:

Your purse is gone. You probably lost it, but someone may have stolen it. There's only one suspect, the event has been caught on tape, but the tape is inconclusive. Ten years later, new technology emerges that enables you to further zoom into the videotape. Wouldn't the statute of limitations have started to run in the very beginning, given you had all the facts?


This is clearly open to interpretation, but I would argue that you did not have all the facts at the beginning, since there was no tool to unlock them.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby gh » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:12 am

marknhj wrote:
Gabriella wrote:It just seems strange to me that the 5 failed re-tests are all from throwing events. I really dont think that throwers are cheating more than other events.


Coming up with Eastern European throwers simply does not pass the smell test. It's inconceivable that no sprinters, or middle and long distance runners were not also positive in Athens.


Actually, it is conceivable, because as I understand it, what we have here is not a new "more sensitive" system that magically detects everything across the board, it's developments in technology that allow for finding new classes of product, or refining the procedures for certain products.

And given that the doping regimens vary so greatly across the spectrum of event groupings, I'm not all surprised that there may be "clusters" of positives.

Now if they could time-machine EPO/hct testing from the '90 and 00s, imagine what would likely to happen to a lot of distance types (while sparing Eastern European throwers).
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Blues » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:46 am

gh wrote:
marknhj wrote:
Gabriella wrote:It just seems strange to me that the 5 failed re-tests are all from throwing events. I really dont think that throwers are cheating more than other events.


Coming up with Eastern European throwers simply does not pass the smell test. It's inconceivable that no sprinters, or middle and long distance runners were not also positive in Athens.


Actually, it is conceivable, because as I understand it, what we have here is not a new "more sensitive" system that magically detects everything across the board, it's developments in technology that allow for finding new classes of product, or refining the procedures for certain products.

And given that the doping regimens vary so greatly across the spectrum of event groupings, I'm not all surprised that there may be "clusters" of positives.

Now if they could time-machine EPO/hct testing from the '90 and 00s, imagine what would likely to happen to a lot of distance types (while sparing Eastern European throwers).


Absolutely correct. An on-point post, and well said as always.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby mump boy » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:30 am

gh wrote:
marknhj wrote:
Gabriella wrote:It just seems strange to me that the 5 failed re-tests are all from throwing events. I really dont think that throwers are cheating more than other events.


Coming up with Eastern European throwers simply does not pass the smell test. It's inconceivable that no sprinters, or middle and long distance runners were not also positive in Athens.


Actually, it is conceivable, because as I understand it, what we have here is not a new "more sensitive" system that magically detects everything across the board, it's developments in technology that allow for finding new classes of product, or refining the procedures for certain products.

And given that the doping regimens vary so greatly across the spectrum of event groupings, I'm not all surprised that there may be "clusters" of positives.

Now if they could time-machine EPO/hct testing from the '90 and 00s, imagine what would likely to happen to a lot of distance types (while sparing Eastern European throwers).


You're so smart Gaz :D
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby marknhj » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:03 am

Your'e right gh, of course. I had assumed, wrongly I suppose, that they were re-testing for EPO, the Balco cocktails et al, and using all the latest available testing protocols across the board. If that was not the case, clusters of positives for old-school anabolics is entirely possible. In the rest of my life I am the antithesis of a conspiracy theorist! However, when sporting governing bodies are involved in policing their own territories nothing would surprise me. Coming up with a few sacrificial lambs from the east, and in the field events, would not surprise me at all.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Tuariki » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:19 am

The courts - at least those in the west - have accepted the latest in DNA technologies to prove the innocence of those wrongly convicted of crimes up to 30 or more years ago.

If the sporting bodies still have samples in storage it would be great to reverse the process and remove from the record books the cheats of the past.

Also the IOC and IAAF should introduce a retrospective rule removing all world records set prior to being caught with PEDs from any athlete caught on the presumption that everything they did was tainted.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby mump boy » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:14 pm

Mighty Favog wrote:From Sports Illustrated's Tim Layden:

Yes, Adam Nelson has seen the reports about '04 shot put gold medalist Yuriy Bilonog)retroactively testing positive. Typically, Nelson, the silver medalist, emailed me a classy response: ``I heard the same rumor two days after the 2004 Olympics. Two weeks later, I received a call from someone after I returned home who had heard from a credible source within the Olympic movement that Yuri tested positive. This same story leaked just before this year's Olympic Games. If the rumors aren't true, then someone owes Yuri an apology. If they are true, I'll have a more to say.''


What a class act :D
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Gabriella » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:33 am

marknhj wrote:Your'e right gh, of course. I had assumed, wrongly I suppose, that they were re-testing for EPO, the Balco cocktails et al, and using all the latest available testing protocols across the board. If that was not the case, clusters of positives for old-school anabolics is entirely possible.


But they are re-testing for EPO and Balco cocktails, surely? :?

We know that the powers that be could do more to right the wrongs of the past. Some of the positives we have seen over the last few years suggests there is still organised doping at some level in some of the former Soviet satelites.We have seen a large number of high profile Russian athletes failing tests - whole training groups of athletes in some cases (Tomoshova, Chizenko,Soboleva, Cherkasova, Yegorova et al) and yet the Russian Federation do not appear to have been chastised. Surely the message should be "clean up your act or your athletes will be banned from competing at the next Games"? But instead we get "here you are, have the 2013 World Championships!" :roll: The same should have been said to the US after Balco, but, of course, the IOC etc rely on the US corporations for sponsorship and paying shed loads for TV rights. How foolish of me! And then of course we have athletes like Bubka, a former Soviet and now Ukranian, who was possibly fed things (with or without his knowledge) while competing for the USSR, now a senior IOC figure. The Ukraine obviously has a doping problem, let's be honest here, yet I wonder how enthusiastic he is about fixing it? Goodness, could he even be privy to whatever doping is going on there? Stranger things have happened..Manfred Ewald...

So, forgive me for being a wee bit suspicious
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Blues » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:13 am

We have to keep in mind that testing of Athens samples in most cases still only has the chance to catch careless or uninformed cheaters or those who felt that what they were using was undetectable. Even in 2004, most athletes knew to stop taking the PED in advance of the Olympics, since they knew they'd be tested. If they stopped soon enough and the substance was no longer in their systems, they weren't going to test positive then, and the majority of those same samples won't test positive now, even though the performance enhancing benefit of drugs like anabolic steroids and EPO still benefitted those athletes during the Olympic competition. So even if all the athletes from Athens that we might be most suspicious of had their samples retested, there are many who wouldn't test positive even if they were using prior to the Games, despite the better and more efficient testing technology of today. If the PED was already cleared from the cheaters urine when they pissed in the cup, we aren't going to find it.

As far as drugs like Balco's THG, Balco was raided in 2003, and testing for the substance was done in Athens in 2004 and it's not like the drug was still undetectable at that time, so anyone still using it knew at that time that they'd have to stop in advance of the Olympics to avoid being caught. I believe EPO is a little more difficult to detect than many other PEDs, and although the ability to detect it is better now, it's still detectable only for a relatively short time after it's injected, so again, if the drug wasn't used close to the date of competition in Athens, it most likely won't be detectable in those old samples now, despite the fact that users, while not testing positive, still would have had an unfair advantage in the number of red blood cells able to carry oxygen to the muscles.

The best way to catch and deter drug cheats isn't through urine sample collection at major competitions like the Olympics, it's through efficient unannounced random testing, and even today many national anti-doping programs lag far behind in this area, and certain nations either don't have an efficient anti-doping program of their own, or don't desire one.. I'm still in favor of retesting old samples with current technology for the small degree of justice it might result in, but it's important to remember that in many cases the smart cheaters won't be caught no matter when the sample is analyzed, regardless of the degree of advancement of the technology, at least when it comes to in-competition samples.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby guru » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:38 am

IOC strips Bilonoh(and three others). Nelson moves to Athens gold.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ol ... c/1748563/
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby gh » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:20 pm

I don't think I've seen anywhere that the IOC says medals will be reassigned. One certainly hopes so, but they haven't been consistent in that area.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby GDAWG » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:29 pm

Is there a statute of limitations on when the IOC makes a decision on the stripping of medals? Because the Russians want that 4 x 400 relay gold from 2004. When that decision is made, no doubt it'll be talked about on Twitter. The IOC was smart in not announcing a decision on that before the London Olympics as it would have been a major distraction for the two members of the relay squad that were competing in London (SRR and DeeDee Trotter). That decision needs to be made pretty soon though as it doesn't need to be a distraction for both SRR and Trotter if a decision is held off until late Summer, especially in a World Championships year.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby preston » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:43 pm

GDAWG wrote:Is there a statute of limitations on when the IOC makes a decision on the stripping of medals? Because the Russians want that 4 x 400 relay gold from 2004. When that decision is made, no doubt it'll be talked about on Twitter. The IOC was smart in not announcing a decision on that before the London Olympics as it would have been a major distraction for the two members of the relay squad that were competing in London (SRR and DeeDee Trotter). That decision needs to be made pretty soon though as it doesn't need to be a distraction for both SRR and Trotter if a decision is held off until late Summer, especially in a World Championships year.

There shouldn't be much if anything to think about. If a member of a relay team tests positive (or later admits that they were using PED's during that event or even during that season) - even if they ran in the rounds/qf/sf - then the entire team must be disqualified.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:07 pm

It is hard enough to get back Gold (or other) medals from those that are DQed. It is much harder to get them back from those that did not do the doping. Note that Johnson gave his back, but I think that was a result of the rule being different or at least not spelled out until somewhat later.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby GDAWG » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:17 pm

preston wrote:
GDAWG wrote:Is there a statute of limitations on when the IOC makes a decision on the stripping of medals? Because the Russians want that 4 x 400 relay gold from 2004. When that decision is made, no doubt it'll be talked about on Twitter. The IOC was smart in not announcing a decision on that before the London Olympics as it would have been a major distraction for the two members of the relay squad that were competing in London (SRR and DeeDee Trotter). That decision needs to be made pretty soon though as it doesn't need to be a distraction for both SRR and Trotter if a decision is held off until late Summer, especially in a World Championships year.

There shouldn't be much if anything to think about. If a member of a relay team tests positive (or later admits that they were using PED's during that event or even during that season) - even if they ran in the rounds/qf/sf - then the entire team must be disqualified.


Yes, but the IOC hasn't made that decision yet.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby mump boy » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:50 pm

Of course Nelson should get his gold but as Nevets pointed out earlier it gets more complicated after that. I don't think anyone would object to `manuel Martines getting the bronze in SP but do we want Tihon's fellow cheat Devyatovsky upgraded to Bronse in the HT ? or the delightful Ostapchuk getting her hands on a SP bronze. At least Cechlova's upgrade in the DT after Yatchenko's DQ means one medalist will be without suspicion

And people still tell me we're biased towards countries like BLR :roll:
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby guru » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:04 pm

gh wrote:I don't think I've seen anywhere that the IOC says medals will be reassigned. One certainly hopes so, but they haven't been consistent in that area.



Well Nelson sure thinks he's getting it, and is calling it a career.

https://twitter.com/SITimLayden/status/ ... 0462686208

Adam Nelson wrote:I'm officially retired. This is the capstone of my career.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:25 pm

Seems to me a condition for an upgrade is no histories of drug penalties, or at least none longer than six months (often minor or 'inadvertent'). That takes care of several of the problematic cases.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby tandfman » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:14 pm

guru wrote:
gh wrote:I don't think I've seen anywhere that the IOC says medals will be reassigned. One certainly hopes so, but they haven't been consistent in that area.

Well Nelson sure thinks he's getting it, and is calling it a career.

https://twitter.com/SITimLayden/status/ ... 0462686208

Adam Nelson wrote:I'm officially retired. This is the capstone of my career.

Another tweet, directly from Adam Nelson:
I now know what it feels like to win a lifetime achievement award posthumously
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby guru » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:24 pm

Excellent piece on Nelson by Tim Layden

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... -put-gold/
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby gh » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:03 pm

Leyden says this <<(Or perhaps, if IAAF deigns to give Nelson his medal, they could do it at the world championships in Moscow). >>

I could be wrong, but believe the IAAF is completely powerless in this situation. I think they can change the official results of the competition by fiat, but the power over the medals proper remains w/ the IOC.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Flumpy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:13 am

And no revisionist medal has ever been awarded in public, especially not at a champs.

They'll reassign them but make sure it gets as little publicity as possible.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Gabriella » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:11 am

mump boy wrote:Of course Nelson should get his gold but as Nevets pointed out earlier it gets more complicated after that.


It does get complicated, but I am very much of the opinion that once an athlete has had a sanction for a steroid or Class A drug, whether they have failed a test or whether it be from some other evidence, then they forfeit all their previous medals.

It sickens me when I look back at results and see where proven cheats have managed to keep their medals. Look at someone like Bronwyn Thompson, 4th in the Athens LJ, her best ever competition on the biggest platform, and she is denied a medal by Simigina, who since failed a test (and I am not convinced by any of the other women above her, what with the recent Russian positives, but they remain innocent for now) Then of course we have all the medals Marion Jones cheated others out of; Christine Arron would have added to her medal collection in 97 (though in other years such as 99 the results are just a whole big mess) A returning Lysenko denying Heidler gold in 2011 and Włodarczyk in 2012, the mess the women's SP and men's HT has caused....I really would like all proven cheats to be taken off the medal books.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby preston » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:55 am

mump boy wrote:And people still tell me we're biased towards countries like BLR :roll:

Yes, you are biased against countries like BLR...we know that. However, when the IOC does NOT test all of the samples and not just target a select few, then it opens the mind to whether a GBR LONG, long distance runner was or an American sprinter or a caribbean sprinter or a European field eventer or a Aussie LJ...; basically, everyone gets tarred. So why the concentration on BLR? Think about this: a sprinter tested positive at the NCAA champs and was still allowed to compete in the Olympics for their country. That was in America...and you want to concentrate on BLR? Test everyone, everywhere and terminate their sporting careers when they test positive.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby guru » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:23 am

Flumpy wrote:And no revisionist medal has ever been awarded in public, especially not at a champs.

They'll reassign them but make sure it gets as little publicity as possible.



I think the most appropriate approach would be a ceremony at the 2013 USATF championships.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby tandfman » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:57 am

guru wrote:
Flumpy wrote:And no revisionist medal has ever been awarded in public, especially not at a champs.

They'll reassign them but make sure it gets as little publicity as possible.

I think the most appropriate approach would be a ceremony at the 2013 USATF championships.

That's been done for a re-awarded IAAF World Championships medal.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby tm71 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:43 pm

There has been some precedent of re awarding medals and ceremonies in situations like this in the past. in 2000 a us wrester received the gold medal in NYC in rockefeller plaza and the us anthem was heard after the original winner, a german athlete tested positive. this was a few weeks after the OG had ended. i know this situation (men's 2004 shot put) is over 8 yrs later and it seems like a long time ago (for example my daughter aptly named Athena was a baby then and now is in 3rd grade). However, someone like Adam Nelson who has been in the sport for over 15 yrs and has nothing so classy deserves that recognition even though it is just USATF that gives him that honor. btw i still fondly remember watching the qualifying round of the men's SP live on my large projector (just after midnight pacific time here in so cal) when all three of my kids were in diapers and sleeping in various parts of the house !
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby bushop » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:33 pm

Give it to Nelson at the Super Bowl.
Jay-Z could present it while Beyoncé sings her (shortened) version of the anthem.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby andyjgt » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:11 am

Gabriella wrote:It does get complicated, but I am very much of the opinion that once an athlete has had a sanction for a steroid or Class A drug, whether they have failed a test or whether it be from some other evidence, then they forfeit all their previous medals.


You mean cocaine here? I don't think cocaine takers are cheats, just idiots.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Tuariki » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:13 am

bushop wrote:Give it to Nelson at the Super Bowl.
Jay-Z could present it while Beyoncé sings her (shortened) version of the anthem.

I think presenting it at half time of the Super Bowl would be perfect. And presented by Obama even better. Val Adams had her gold presented by the Governor General, our head of state, at a relatively small non-public gathering organised by politicians, NZIOC and Athletics NZ. All in all a pretty disappointing low key event that excluded the NZ public.
I hope the Americans take the opportunity to give Nelson the public recognition he deserves.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:43 am

andyjgt wrote:
Gabriella wrote:It does get complicated, but I am very much of the opinion that once an athlete has had a sanction for a steroid or Class A drug, whether they have failed a test or whether it be from some other evidence, then they forfeit all their previous medals.


You mean cocaine here? I don't think cocaine takers are cheats, just idiots.


I thought this initially, but I think that there is some potential PEDs effect; can someone clarify?
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby preston » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:39 am

Why would the NFL allow it to be presented at the Super Bowl? That makes no sense. A more sensible/possible suggestion would be at the white house or in some other Government function. The only other relevant venue would be a track meet (USATF?) or Association conference. That said, if history is a guide it won't be at the WC's either. However, at least one athlete has had their Olympic medal presented by an IAAF council member.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby bushop » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:19 pm

preston wrote:Why would the NFL allow it to be presented at the Super Bowl? That makes no sense.

Sure... no way the NFL allows it... it's nice to dream.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby gh » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:22 pm

The NFL wouldn't allow anything like it even if involved football. Their spin doctors are far too smart—unlike track's suits—to wash dirty laundry on the day of their biggest event.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:32 pm

gh wrote:The NFL wouldn't allow anything like it even if involved football. Their spin doctors are far too smart—unlike track's suits—to wash dirty laundry on the day of their biggest event.


Good grief, yes. The NFL wouldn't touch the subject with a ten foot pole. A topic best left unsaid.

And why airing this to a wider audience is good for the sport is bewildering. In 1989 on Sportscenter in ESPN when it was announced by Chris Berman that Barnes and Reynolds had tested positive, did Berman say, wow track and field is really on top of this drug thing. No, he said, 'track, now there is a dirty sport!' I still vividly remember watching that.
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby tandfman » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:02 pm

preston wrote:Why would the NFL allow it to be presented at the Super Bowl? That makes no sense. A more sensible/possible suggestion would be at the white house or in some other Government function. The only other relevant venue would be a track meet (USATF?) or Association conference. That said, if history is a guide it won't be at the WC's either. However, at least one athlete has had their Olympic medal presented by an IAAF council member.

I would imagine quite a few have had that happen. Olympic medals are always presented at the Games by IOC members, but there are several IOC members who are also IAAF Council members, including the President of the IAAF. (Others currently include Bubka, El Moutawakel, Fredericks, and Szewinska.)
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Re: Adam Nelson May Yet Get That Elusive Oly Gold

Postby guru » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:18 pm

tandfman wrote:
preston wrote:The only other relevant venue would be a track meet (USATF?) or Association conference. That said, if history is a guide it won't be at the WC's either. However, at least one athlete has had their Olympic medal presented by an IAAF council member.

I would imagine quite a few have had that happen. Olympic medals are always presented at the Games by IOC members, but there are several IOC members who are also IAAF Council members, including the President of the IAAF. (Others currently include Bubka, El Moutawakel, Fredericks, and Szewinska.)



Hersh present Nelson with gold at 2013 USATF champs. Ceremony to happen during live network coverage.

Make it happen Max.
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