Something going on at Texas?


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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:52 am

Blues wrote:At least for the time being, I'm still having a tough time sympathizing with her... From CNN:

"Is it because I have a disability? Is it because I'm black? Is it because I'm female? Is it because I'm successful? Is it now because of my sexual preference?" Coach Bev Kearney asked on CNN's "Starting Point" Tuesday. "I had to finally come to embrace not knowing why, and I had to embrace it because the more you try to figure out why, the harder it is to forgive."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/texas- ... index.html

:shock:

It sounds like she's going to make this as ugly as possible. Not only is she throwing the kitchen sink at UT, but for good measure, she's throwing the oven, the refrigerator and the garbage disposal as well. Has she no shame? Jesus Christ!

Personally, I can't relate to eldanielfire's comments, but I don't know how old he is. Don't get me wrong, 20 years ago, when I was in my 20's and even early 30's, I did view some female college athletes as sexual beings, but not anymore. Today, I look them the same way I would look at my best friend's daughter, it just doesn't seem right.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Cooter Brown » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:59 am

lonewolf wrote:I suspect insiders at UT have known about this for all these years.


Once this story came out a few days ago, I was told by someone that they were surprised this was the issue she was in trouble for since it wasn't a well kept secret over the last decade.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:05 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:
lonewolf wrote:I suspect insiders at UT have known about this for all these years.


Once this story came out a few days ago, I was told by someone that they were surprised this was the issue she was in trouble for since it wasn't a well kept secret over the last decade.

But the only way that anyone can ever really confirm that a relationship is taking place between two people is if one of them talks, or evidence is discovered by a third party such as emails, text messages or a blue dress.

EDIT: What I don't understand is why did she resign if she feels she didn't do anything wrong? Shouldn't she have forced UT to fire her?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby eldanielfire » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:17 pm

fourjz wrote:
tandfman wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:In the wrong moment and circumstances anybody could break and cross a boundary without a second thought.

Some people undoubtedly could, but not everybody. Some people have a strong enough moral compass to resist temptations like that.

It still boils down to professionalism,coaching ethics,and individual moral ethics.It's flat out wrong !!! :x


This is horse rubbish and a poor comparison. A gynaecologist doesn't get or have need to be personally involved with their patients and are highly unlikely to see them for hours a day on a regular basis for years. I’d also think it was not professional if a gynaecologist ever needs to see women’s breasts as part of their job.

By the way, sexuality is not just breasts, bum and vagina and relationships and feelings are not simply physical desires that are turned on or off or controlled it you want to. Relationships, closeness, high intensity situations which are large parts of successful sporting relationships can stir hormones and emotions the people involved don't want and had no prior intention of having. This leads people into emotionally vulnerable states or moments of high passion where anything can regardless of prior values, morals or intentions.

By the way I'm not justifying such relationships, just because I think what is essentially a teacher/lecturer-student relationship is wrong that doesn't mean I can't empathise or sympathise with the situation. Especially as I consider realistically the nature of a high level coach athlete to be an emotionally intense one. Sometimes it shows itself differently, how many secretly athletes consider a coach as more of a parent their their own? Plenty! In other cases different personalities it is always going that comes out in a highly charged moment of intimacy. It will happen right or wrong. We are human and our need for relationships, sex and love is programmed into our DNA, literally as a species.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:33 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Blues wrote:At least for the time being, I'm still having a tough time sympathizing with her... From CNN:

"Is it because I have a disability? Is it because I'm black? Is it because I'm female? Is it because I'm successful? Is it now because of my sexual preference?" Coach Bev Kearney asked on CNN's "Starting Point" Tuesday. "I had to finally come to embrace not knowing why, and I had to embrace it because the more you try to figure out why, the harder it is to forgive."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/texas- ... index.html

:shock:

It sounds like she's going to make this as ugly as possible. Not only is she throwing the kitchen sink at UT, but for good measure, she's throwing the oven, the refrigerator and the garbage disposal as well. Has she no shame? Jesus Christ!

Personally, I can't relate to eldanielfire's comments, but I don't know how old he is. Don't get me wrong, 20 years ago, when I was in my 20's and even early 30's, I did view some female college athletes as sexual beings, but not anymore. Today, I look them the same way I would look at my best friend's daughter, it just doesn't seem right.


I am not sure why the implications are quite so obvious. I suspect that this is maneuvering as regards a settlement. I think that it is a bit hard to not realize that someone that is in such a minority^4 [black, female in a male sports/head coach role, lesbian, disability]. The reports indicate that there was a report to the school by the individual involved in 'late October'; was it spurred by others, etc.

The timing is part of the picture here. My guess is there that she had a few strong enemies and that they decided this was the time to stop her rather than enshrine her and found a way to transform rumors in action, and given the climate change since Penn State (but also, the climate has been progressively changing in that direction from when I started teaching in the early '80s).
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Pego » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:34 pm

eldanielfire wrote:I’d also think it was not professional if a gynaecologist ever needs to see women’s breasts as part of their job.


Say what :shock: ?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby eldanielfire » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:21 pm

Pego wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:I’d also think it was not professional if a gynaecologist ever needs to see women’s breasts as part of their job.


Say what :shock: ?



They should be concerned with the vagina, Ovaries and Uterus only in their role. Breast vision shouldn't be a regular thing.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Pego » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:53 pm

eldanielfire wrote:
Pego wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:I’d also think it was not professional if a gynaecologist ever needs to see women’s breasts as part of their job.


Say what :shock: ?



They should be concerned with the vagina, Ovaries and Uterus only in their role. Breast vision shouldn't be a regular thing.


It has been since the time immemorial. As it should be.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby TrakFan » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:32 pm

eldanielfire wrote:A gynaecologist doesn't get or have need to be personally involved with their patients and are highly unlikely to see them for hours a day on a regular basis for years. I’d also think it was not professional if a gynaecologist ever needs to see women’s breasts as part of their job.


Many of these individuals deliver the children of the women they see, and are very familiar with many aspects of their lives. FYI they don't just see breasts -- there's also palpation. It’s very routine. Ask your wife or girlfriend.

eldanielfire wrote:high intensity situations which are large parts of successful sporting relationships can stir hormones...


I'm confident 99% of the coaches out there don't get sexually-related hormone rushes watching their athletes perform. If anything, they're concerning themselves with technical aspects of their athlete's performance.

eldanielfire wrote:By the way I'm not justifying such relationships, just because I think what is essentially a teacher/lecturer-student relationship is wrong that doesn't mean I can't empathise or sympathise with the situation.


Sorry, I don't understand and share the feelings (empathy) of such inappropriate relationships, nor do I have sympathy for those in authority who receive a legal and professional smack-down because they broke those rules.

eldanielfire wrote: We are human and our need for relationships, sex and love is programmed into our DNA, literally as a species.


We also have self-conrtol and (should) make decisions based on personal/societal moraliy.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby JumboElliott » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:41 pm

What is the head coach of a non-revenue generating sport doing making over two times what the governor of Texas is making?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby TxHottrack » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:06 am

The governor of my state of Texas? You got jokes! Lol
I think it's best to keep the focus on track and field.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:13 am

I don't care who the governor is, he deserves to make more than the women's track coach at UT.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby TxHottrack » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:26 am

JumboElliott wrote:I don't care who the governor is, he deserves to make more than the women's track coach at UT.


I can list a million reasons why the governor of Texas is not deserving of making more than former coach Beverly Kearney. As I stated earlier, I prefer to keep the focus on track and field.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:09 am

JumboElliott wrote:What is the head coach of a non-revenue generating sport doing making over two times what the governor of Texas is making?

If we're comparing the salaries of non-revenue coaches at public universities to the salary of that state's governor, there are literally hundreds of coaches all over the country in a variety of sports who are overpaid, not just Bev Kearney. The two most egregious examples are probably women's basketball coaches Pat Summitt ($2.2 million) and Gino Auriemma ($1.8 million), with Vin Lananna being the most overpaid in track and field.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Marlow » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:42 am

jazzcyclist wrote: Vin Lananna being the most overpaid in track and field.

a. No such thing :wink:
b. He's much more than just a 'coach'. He's Tracktown USA!!!
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:02 am

Another way of looking at it would be that given the revenue and attention he brings to both the University of Oregon and the city of Eugene (without him, the OT may not even be there) that Lananna is underpaid.

Perhaps the only track coach in the nation whose program pays its own way (relatively speaking)?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:12 am

gh wrote:Another way of looking at it would be that given the revenue and attention he brings to both the University of Oregon and the city of Eugene (without him, the OT may not even be there) that Lananna is underpaid.

Perhaps the only track coach in the nation whose program pays its own way (relatively speaking)?

According the Oregon's athletic department books, their track program loses money. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that Lananna is overpaid, I'm just pointing out that based on JumboElliott's logic, he's overpaid since he makes more than Oregon's governor and he coaches a program that loses money.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:15 am

gh wrote:Another way of looking at it would be that given the revenue and attention he brings to both the University of Oregon and the city of Eugene (without him, the OT may not even be there) that Lananna is underpaid.

Perhaps the only track coach in the nation whose program pays its own way (relatively speaking)?


Helps having a billionaire as your best supporter. Who also helps keeps the football coach from going.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:15 am

that's why I said "relatively speaking"; the track operation itself undoubtedly loses money, but Lananna's work makes money elsewhere, for both university and city.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:18 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
gh wrote:Another way of looking at it would be that given the revenue and attention he brings to both the University of Oregon and the city of Eugene (without him, the OT may not even be there) that Lananna is underpaid.

Perhaps the only track coach in the nation whose program pays its own way (relatively speaking)?

According the Oregon's athletic department books, their track program loses money. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that Lananna is overpaid, I'm just pointing out that based on JumboElliott's logic, he's overpaid since he makes more than Oregon's governor and he coaches a program that loses money.


Overpaid? Pocket change in Nikeland....as is Chip Kelly's salary.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:21 am

Conor Dary wrote:Overpaid? Pocket change in Nikeland....as is Chip Kelly's salary.

Chip Kelly's salary is easy to justify since the football program makes money.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:26 am

Conor Dary wrote:
gh wrote:Another way of looking at it would be that given the revenue and attention he brings to both the University of Oregon and the city of Eugene (without him, the OT may not even be there) that Lananna is underpaid.

Perhaps the only track coach in the nation whose program pays its own way (relatively speaking)?


Helps having a billionaire as your best supporter. Who also helps keeps the football coach from going.


Oh, absolutely (and on the football side, anybody who was surprised that Kelly stayed at home wasn't paying attention). But note how well Lananna's predecessor did in forging a working relationship with Knight and turning Eugene back into TrackTown.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby guru » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:31 am

gh wrote:Oh, absolutely (and on the football side, anybody who was surprised that Kelly stayed at home wasn't paying attention)...



Considering the looming NCAA sanctions, I'm shocked he didn't get out while the getting was good(ala P. Carroll).
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:34 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:What is the head coach of a non-revenue generating sport doing making over two times what the governor of Texas is making?

If we're comparing the salaries of non-revenue coaches at public universities to the salary of that state's governor, there are literally hundreds of coaches all over the country in a variety of sports who are overpaid, not just Bev Kearney. The two most egregious examples are probably women's basketball coaches Pat Summitt ($2.2 million) and Gino Auriemma ($1.8 million), with Vin Lananna being the most overpaid in track and field.

UConn and Tennessee both turn (small) profits for women's basketball.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:38 am

Yes, Lananna has done a wonderful job and knows how to play the game. The program had been going downhill for quite a while before he got there.

As for Kelly:

    What I believe now is that Kelly, who makes $3.5 million in guaranteed salary and has the blessing of Nike-infused infrastructure, knows his current gig is the best amateur coaching job in America.

    I now suspect he would only trade it for the dream gig of every little kid who grows up in New England -- head coach of the Patriots.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregon ... dance.html
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:42 am

guru wrote:
gh wrote:Oh, absolutely (and on the football side, anybody who was surprised that Kelly stayed at home wasn't paying attention)...



Considering the looming NCAA sanctions, I'm shocked he didn't get out while the getting was good(ala P. Carroll).

The one thing that Roger Goodell did that I agree with is enforcing NCAA sanctions on Terrell Pryor and Jim Tressell when the left college to avoid punishment. I wish he had done the same with Pete Carroll who left USC one step ahead of the NCAA mob. I wouldn't have a problem if in the future, the NFL formalized this symbiotic relationship and refused to accept coaches under these circumstances until they settled things with the NCAA.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby TxHottrack » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:42 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote: Vin Lananna being the most overpaid in track and field.

a. No such thing :wink:
b. He's much more than just a 'coach'. He's Tracktown USA!!!


:lol:
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby KevinM » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:43 am

Conor Dary wrote:Yes, Lananna has done a wonderful job and knows how to play the game. The program had been going downhill for quite a while before he got there.



I'm not debating that Lananna's teams have been better than Smith's, but as I recall, Smith's teams were markedly better than the teams late in the Dellinger/Heinonen eras.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:54 am

KevinM wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Yes, Lananna has done a wonderful job and knows how to play the game. The program had been going downhill for quite a while before he got there.



I'm not debating that Lananna's teams have been better than Smith's, but as I recall, Smith's teams were markedly better than the teams late in the Dellinger/Heinonen eras.


As I said the program had been in decline for quite a while.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:15 am

JumboElliott wrote:UConn and Tennessee both turn (small) profits for women's basketball.

Not according to the latest figures I've seen.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Blues » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:15 am

26mi235 wrote:The timing is part of the picture here. My guess is there that she had a few strong enemies and that they decided this was the time to stop her rather than enshrine her and found a way to transform rumors in action, and given the climate change since Penn State (but also, the climate has been progressively changing in that direction from when I started teaching in the early '80s).


Maybe. There might also be at least a slim chance that in the absence of a conspiracy, a former athlete from that 2002 team returned after quite a while to be coached by Bev recently, and that maybe something happened during their latest coach-athlete association that made the athlete choose to reveal details of the past relationship, or threaten to go public. Stranger things have happened, so I'm not ready to accept the conspiracy theory as having the highest probability of explaining the situation just yet, although I won't rule it out either.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:46 am

A lot of folks have brought up the timing of this issue, but don't forget that Jerry Sandusky's Penn State crimes were also nearly ten years old but that didn't save the University from having the hammer dropped on them.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Blues » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:30 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:A lot of folks have brought up the timing of this issue, but don't forget that Jerry Sandusky's Penn State crimes were also nearly ten years old but that didn't save the University from having the hammer dropped on them.


I don't think the NCAA would drop the hammer on UT though, unless it turns out that the coach also committed crimes that were covered up. In comparing this to Penn State, whether or not higher officials were previously aware and covered things up at the time could be one ace in the hole that Coach Kearney could be holding since it could further damage the institution's reputation and put them more at risk of possible civil suits by the athlete (or athletes) involved. If there's an ugly lawsuit between Coach Kearney and UT, I wonder if more former and present UT women's track and field athletes and staff would tend to feel more loyalty to their University and possibly to the athlete involved, or to their coach if they have to be involved. Hopefully it won't come to that.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby polevaultpower » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:51 pm

I've never heard of the NCAA punishing a school for a non-criminal relationship between an athlete and a coach?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:06 pm

polevaultpower wrote:I've never heard of the NCAA punishing a school for a non-criminal relationship between an athlete and a coach?

Prior to the Jerry Sandusky scandal, I had never heard of the NCAA punishing a school for criminal actions at all unless it violated NCAA bylaws. Even when there was a murder and a coverup involving Baylor basketball players, the NCAA let the criminal justice system handle it.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:54 pm

polevaultpower wrote:I've never heard of the NCAA punishing a school for a non-criminal relationship between an athlete and a coach?

It's not criminal, but it's surely unethical.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Cooter Brown » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:21 am

Blues wrote:a former athlete from that 2002 team returned after quite a while to be coached by Bev recently, and that maybe something happened during their latest coach-athlete association that made the athlete choose to reveal details of the past relationship, or threaten to go public.


You must have contacts. That is the exact story that is being passed around locally.

There's also a conspiracy theory like you mentioned but the above is most likely what happened.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:16 am

Original post has been deleted to honor the integrity of the board. :oops:
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Blues » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:56 pm

No specific accusations had been made, but post deleted by author in response to gh's post below.
Last edited by Blues on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:14 pm

At this point let me interject that these are real people with real feelings we're talking about here, and speculation on specifics on who the person might be should stop at this level. Thanks for understanding.
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