Something going on at Texas?


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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:32 am

polevaultpower wrote:
Pego wrote:I am amazed at all those "conspiracy" musings. UT did exactly what every other school would have done in today's atmosphere. No need for "ulterior motives."


I think it's a hard pill for many to swallow when we all know dozens of male coaches who have done the same or worse with no more than a slap on the wrist.


Actually, are there any male coaches we know of who have had a same-sex with an athlete (that was open enough to have received a "slap")? I'm guessing that still sets of major alarm bells everywhere, given the conservative nature of athletic departments.

But PVP is dead-on in her double standard analysis. My all-time favorite in our sport comes from he early '70s. I won't mention the two athletes in question, other than to note that both were "famous." On a national-team trip to Europe he was caught in her room one night. The AAU women's committee suspended her from all competition for a year, and he received nothing (probably other than a wink and a nudge).
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby vip » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:09 am

What happened to Loren Seagrave, who's a fairly respectable sprint coach? I've seen him mentioned three times now without any detailed explanation. Help out some of us who don't know.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:30 am

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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby guru » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:40 am

Here's a more complete accounting of the Seagrave incident

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-06-25/ ... n-seagrave
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby vip » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:56 am

Wow, just ... wow. Thanks.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby fourjz » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:11 am

As a coach,I believe it's unprofessional,and and against Coaching Ethics to be involved at the collegiate level with a relationship with your athlete.Second the University has a standard as well which does not condone consensual,or nonconsenual relations.Third,when your school recruits said athletes across the country,and all over the world,do you tell the parents,high school coach,and high school that there might be a possibility that I may get sexually involved with your daughter but I still want you to send her to my school;because she'll be legal age ? NO,NO NO ! It's wrong and we know it !! :x
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby eldanielfire » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:57 pm

While I won't justify the relationships because college staff and athletes, being sympathetic you have to empathise that in sport it must be hard for coaches who are essentially moulding female bodies into physical perfection. Top class coaches of nay sport, college level, professional, whatever have to be in the heads of their athletes, they have to be friend, father figure, life coach, relationship advisor, physically touching them for technical purposes, massage, injury checking, in their events for the greatest performances and you both have to be driven, giving it all and passioante at all times. That has an emotional effect and feelinsg develop.

You almost have to be so intensely close to them mentally as well as physically you are forming a close and passionate relationship and in young athletes possible the deepest relationship outside their family they have known. The opportunities for tempetation are far greater than a professor dictating and showing a slide show then marking and going over an essay. It seems to requirements need to be the very best are also those that when coach-athlete partnerships are of the opposite sex or someone is gay it can very hard not to have some feelings especially when the athlete has a body of a greek goddess. In the wrong moment and circumstances anybody could break and cross a boundary without a second thought.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby tandfman » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:12 pm

eldanielfire wrote:In the wrong moment and circumstances anybody could break and cross a boundary without a second thought.

Some people undoubtedly could, but not everybody. Some people have a strong enough moral compass to resist temptations like that.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby polevaultpower » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:39 pm

Seagrave's case is by far the exception rather than the rule when it comes to how inappropriate conduct between coaches and athletes is handled (especially back then).

I would say the vast majority of the time, there are rumors, but the athlete does not complain about the situation (either because they are not unhappy with it, or because they fear the consequences of doing so) so nothing happens. Schools have traditionally turned a blind eye to suspicious behaviors in this arena.

Coaching in the college track world generally requires a lot of moving around. If the complaint against Kearney involved conduct at another school, would she have been fired from the current school? My guess is probably not, unless there was something criminal involved.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby fourjz » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:51 pm

tandfman wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:In the wrong moment and circumstances anybody could break and cross a boundary without a second thought.

Some people undoubtedly could, but not everybody. Some people have a strong enough moral compass to resist temptations like that.

It still boils down to professionalism,coaching ethics,and individual moral ethics.It's flat out wrong !!! :x
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby tandfman » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:54 pm

You'll get no argument from me about that.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 18.99s » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:39 pm

Pego wrote:I am amazed at all those "conspiracy" musings. UT did exactly what every other school would have done in today's atmosphere. No need for "ulterior motives."


They rightly did what they're supposed to do after they found out. My wondering is about what led to them finding out in 2012, considering when it happened and there's no criminal aspect to it.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby guru » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:27 pm

18.99s wrote: My wondering is about what led to them finding out in 2012...



That, is the $475,000 question...
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby TrakFan » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:34 pm

eldanielfire wrote:While I won't justify the relationships because college staff and athletes, being sympathetic you have to empathise that in sport it must be hard for coaches who are essentially moulding female bodies into physical perfection.


I think you're projecting, my friend. 99% of the individuals in such situations are not tempted or turned on by those they interact with. Based on your premise, it must also be "hard" for gynecologists because they’re seeing and touching things (vaginas and breasts) that are typically considered a turn-on for hetero males.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:05 pm

guru wrote:
18.99s wrote: My wondering is about what led to them finding out in 2012...



That, is the $475,000 question...


see story now on front page: BK lawyer says it was done to block her raise/contract extension.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 18.99s » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:31 pm

guru wrote:
Pego wrote:I am amazed at all those "conspiracy" musings. UT did exactly what every other school would have done in today's atmosphere. No need for "ulterior motives."



Agree 100%. If, as 18.99 suggests, UT was "looking to get out of the expensive new contract", why would they offer it to her in the first place?


Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Or the left hand doesn't like what the right is doing.

The fact that she was offered or perhaps aggressively negotiated that big contract doesn't mean it was a unanimous decision in UT. It could have been a split decision by a committee, or a powerful individual made it a unilateral decision, and that was resented by others who felt adversely affected (suppose her higher salary meant lower raises for other coaches or forgoing equipment upgrades in a few other sports).
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby TxHottrack » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:45 pm

It looks as if Allison Peter is transferring...she is no longer on the roster.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby lonewolf » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:06 pm

I suspect insiders at UT have known about this for all these years. The whistle blower well could be someone who disapproved of the raise.. I cannot think why the athlete involved would be motivated to fess up.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Blues » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:44 pm

If the involved athlete is now 30 as the latest home page story states, then Coach Kearney was about 45 and her athlete was 19 or 20 during their affair in 2002... I'd hoped that the involved athlete might have been a little older and more mature, but I guess it could have been worse.

Has it been stated for certain that it was actually the athlete herself who blew the whistle and contacted the university, as opposed to a family member or loved one that the athlete may have recently confided in? What if the athlete had recently heard a story of something similar happening and felt obligated to try to prevent it from happening again? I'm not suggesting that either of those scenarios are probably what transpired, but there could still be a valid explanation of why this happened now without it having to be solely about blocking the coach's new contract and raise. Coach Kearney's lawyer seems eager to get to the bottom of it though. I hope he doesn't accidentally stir up too much more dirt for his client while trying.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Blues » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:32 am

At least for the time being, I'm still having a tough time sympathizing with her... From CNN, as linked to on the home page:

"Is it because I have a disability? Is it because I'm black? Is it because I'm female? Is it because I'm successful? Is it now because of my sexual preference?" Coach Bev Kearney asked on CNN's "Starting Point" Tuesday. "I had to finally come to embrace not knowing why, and I had to embrace it because the more you try to figure out why, the harder it is to forgive."
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:52 am

Blues wrote:At least for the time being, I'm still having a tough time sympathizing with her... From CNN:

"Is it because I have a disability? Is it because I'm black? Is it because I'm female? Is it because I'm successful? Is it now because of my sexual preference?" Coach Bev Kearney asked on CNN's "Starting Point" Tuesday. "I had to finally come to embrace not knowing why, and I had to embrace it because the more you try to figure out why, the harder it is to forgive."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/texas- ... index.html

:shock:

It sounds like she's going to make this as ugly as possible. Not only is she throwing the kitchen sink at UT, but for good measure, she's throwing the oven, the refrigerator and the garbage disposal as well. Has she no shame? Jesus Christ!

Personally, I can't relate to eldanielfire's comments, but I don't know how old he is. Don't get me wrong, 20 years ago, when I was in my 20's and even early 30's, I did view some female college athletes as sexual beings, but not anymore. Today, I look them the same way I would look at my best friend's daughter, it just doesn't seem right.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Cooter Brown » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:59 am

lonewolf wrote:I suspect insiders at UT have known about this for all these years.


Once this story came out a few days ago, I was told by someone that they were surprised this was the issue she was in trouble for since it wasn't a well kept secret over the last decade.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:05 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:
lonewolf wrote:I suspect insiders at UT have known about this for all these years.


Once this story came out a few days ago, I was told by someone that they were surprised this was the issue she was in trouble for since it wasn't a well kept secret over the last decade.

But the only way that anyone can ever really confirm that a relationship is taking place between two people is if one of them talks, or evidence is discovered by a third party such as emails, text messages or a blue dress.

EDIT: What I don't understand is why did she resign if she feels she didn't do anything wrong? Shouldn't she have forced UT to fire her?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby eldanielfire » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:17 pm

fourjz wrote:
tandfman wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:In the wrong moment and circumstances anybody could break and cross a boundary without a second thought.

Some people undoubtedly could, but not everybody. Some people have a strong enough moral compass to resist temptations like that.

It still boils down to professionalism,coaching ethics,and individual moral ethics.It's flat out wrong !!! :x


This is horse rubbish and a poor comparison. A gynaecologist doesn't get or have need to be personally involved with their patients and are highly unlikely to see them for hours a day on a regular basis for years. I’d also think it was not professional if a gynaecologist ever needs to see women’s breasts as part of their job.

By the way, sexuality is not just breasts, bum and vagina and relationships and feelings are not simply physical desires that are turned on or off or controlled it you want to. Relationships, closeness, high intensity situations which are large parts of successful sporting relationships can stir hormones and emotions the people involved don't want and had no prior intention of having. This leads people into emotionally vulnerable states or moments of high passion where anything can regardless of prior values, morals or intentions.

By the way I'm not justifying such relationships, just because I think what is essentially a teacher/lecturer-student relationship is wrong that doesn't mean I can't empathise or sympathise with the situation. Especially as I consider realistically the nature of a high level coach athlete to be an emotionally intense one. Sometimes it shows itself differently, how many secretly athletes consider a coach as more of a parent their their own? Plenty! In other cases different personalities it is always going that comes out in a highly charged moment of intimacy. It will happen right or wrong. We are human and our need for relationships, sex and love is programmed into our DNA, literally as a species.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:33 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Blues wrote:At least for the time being, I'm still having a tough time sympathizing with her... From CNN:

"Is it because I have a disability? Is it because I'm black? Is it because I'm female? Is it because I'm successful? Is it now because of my sexual preference?" Coach Bev Kearney asked on CNN's "Starting Point" Tuesday. "I had to finally come to embrace not knowing why, and I had to embrace it because the more you try to figure out why, the harder it is to forgive."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/texas- ... index.html

:shock:

It sounds like she's going to make this as ugly as possible. Not only is she throwing the kitchen sink at UT, but for good measure, she's throwing the oven, the refrigerator and the garbage disposal as well. Has she no shame? Jesus Christ!

Personally, I can't relate to eldanielfire's comments, but I don't know how old he is. Don't get me wrong, 20 years ago, when I was in my 20's and even early 30's, I did view some female college athletes as sexual beings, but not anymore. Today, I look them the same way I would look at my best friend's daughter, it just doesn't seem right.


I am not sure why the implications are quite so obvious. I suspect that this is maneuvering as regards a settlement. I think that it is a bit hard to not realize that someone that is in such a minority^4 [black, female in a male sports/head coach role, lesbian, disability]. The reports indicate that there was a report to the school by the individual involved in 'late October'; was it spurred by others, etc.

The timing is part of the picture here. My guess is there that she had a few strong enemies and that they decided this was the time to stop her rather than enshrine her and found a way to transform rumors in action, and given the climate change since Penn State (but also, the climate has been progressively changing in that direction from when I started teaching in the early '80s).
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Pego » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:34 pm

eldanielfire wrote:I’d also think it was not professional if a gynaecologist ever needs to see women’s breasts as part of their job.


Say what :shock: ?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby eldanielfire » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:21 pm

Pego wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:I’d also think it was not professional if a gynaecologist ever needs to see women’s breasts as part of their job.


Say what :shock: ?



They should be concerned with the vagina, Ovaries and Uterus only in their role. Breast vision shouldn't be a regular thing.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Pego » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:53 pm

eldanielfire wrote:
Pego wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:I’d also think it was not professional if a gynaecologist ever needs to see women’s breasts as part of their job.


Say what :shock: ?



They should be concerned with the vagina, Ovaries and Uterus only in their role. Breast vision shouldn't be a regular thing.


It has been since the time immemorial. As it should be.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby TrakFan » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:32 pm

eldanielfire wrote:A gynaecologist doesn't get or have need to be personally involved with their patients and are highly unlikely to see them for hours a day on a regular basis for years. I’d also think it was not professional if a gynaecologist ever needs to see women’s breasts as part of their job.


Many of these individuals deliver the children of the women they see, and are very familiar with many aspects of their lives. FYI they don't just see breasts -- there's also palpation. It’s very routine. Ask your wife or girlfriend.

eldanielfire wrote:high intensity situations which are large parts of successful sporting relationships can stir hormones...


I'm confident 99% of the coaches out there don't get sexually-related hormone rushes watching their athletes perform. If anything, they're concerning themselves with technical aspects of their athlete's performance.

eldanielfire wrote:By the way I'm not justifying such relationships, just because I think what is essentially a teacher/lecturer-student relationship is wrong that doesn't mean I can't empathise or sympathise with the situation.


Sorry, I don't understand and share the feelings (empathy) of such inappropriate relationships, nor do I have sympathy for those in authority who receive a legal and professional smack-down because they broke those rules.

eldanielfire wrote: We are human and our need for relationships, sex and love is programmed into our DNA, literally as a species.


We also have self-conrtol and (should) make decisions based on personal/societal moraliy.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby JumboElliott » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:41 pm

What is the head coach of a non-revenue generating sport doing making over two times what the governor of Texas is making?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby TxHottrack » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:06 am

The governor of my state of Texas? You got jokes! Lol
I think it's best to keep the focus on track and field.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:13 am

I don't care who the governor is, he deserves to make more than the women's track coach at UT.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby TxHottrack » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:26 am

JumboElliott wrote:I don't care who the governor is, he deserves to make more than the women's track coach at UT.


I can list a million reasons why the governor of Texas is not deserving of making more than former coach Beverly Kearney. As I stated earlier, I prefer to keep the focus on track and field.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:09 am

JumboElliott wrote:What is the head coach of a non-revenue generating sport doing making over two times what the governor of Texas is making?

If we're comparing the salaries of non-revenue coaches at public universities to the salary of that state's governor, there are literally hundreds of coaches all over the country in a variety of sports who are overpaid, not just Bev Kearney. The two most egregious examples are probably women's basketball coaches Pat Summitt ($2.2 million) and Gino Auriemma ($1.8 million), with Vin Lananna being the most overpaid in track and field.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Marlow » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:42 am

jazzcyclist wrote: Vin Lananna being the most overpaid in track and field.

a. No such thing :wink:
b. He's much more than just a 'coach'. He's Tracktown USA!!!
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:02 am

Another way of looking at it would be that given the revenue and attention he brings to both the University of Oregon and the city of Eugene (without him, the OT may not even be there) that Lananna is underpaid.

Perhaps the only track coach in the nation whose program pays its own way (relatively speaking)?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:12 am

gh wrote:Another way of looking at it would be that given the revenue and attention he brings to both the University of Oregon and the city of Eugene (without him, the OT may not even be there) that Lananna is underpaid.

Perhaps the only track coach in the nation whose program pays its own way (relatively speaking)?

According the Oregon's athletic department books, their track program loses money. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that Lananna is overpaid, I'm just pointing out that based on JumboElliott's logic, he's overpaid since he makes more than Oregon's governor and he coaches a program that loses money.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:15 am

gh wrote:Another way of looking at it would be that given the revenue and attention he brings to both the University of Oregon and the city of Eugene (without him, the OT may not even be there) that Lananna is underpaid.

Perhaps the only track coach in the nation whose program pays its own way (relatively speaking)?


Helps having a billionaire as your best supporter. Who also helps keeps the football coach from going.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:15 am

that's why I said "relatively speaking"; the track operation itself undoubtedly loses money, but Lananna's work makes money elsewhere, for both university and city.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:18 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
gh wrote:Another way of looking at it would be that given the revenue and attention he brings to both the University of Oregon and the city of Eugene (without him, the OT may not even be there) that Lananna is underpaid.

Perhaps the only track coach in the nation whose program pays its own way (relatively speaking)?

According the Oregon's athletic department books, their track program loses money. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that Lananna is overpaid, I'm just pointing out that based on JumboElliott's logic, he's overpaid since he makes more than Oregon's governor and he coaches a program that loses money.


Overpaid? Pocket change in Nikeland....as is Chip Kelly's salary.
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