nyc marathon and weather


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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:25 am

guru wrote:At least in the hotel quoted(and I'm sure there are others), they are turning away evacuees due to marathon reservations. No marathon, those rooms would be available for the needy.

IMO, eveicting runners, most of whom have flown in from out of town and would have no place to go until their scheduled return flight leaves, would be just as bad as evicting evacuees. I also noted this excerpt from the article you linked:
Hotels, meanwhile, are already full of employees of firms such as Morgan Stanley and UBS AG who are renting rooms in Manhattan, along with other local residents unable or unwilling to return to homes ravaged by Sandy’s rain, wind and flooding.

It sounds like a lot of evacuees have already been accommodated and the hotels have a first-come-first-serve policy. Perhaps the hotels should have contacted the runners last weekend before they all boarded planes to New York and told them not to come, if evacuees were going to be the #1 priority.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby aaronk » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:26 am

Maybe a dumb naive question, but......

Why did they have to cancel Saturday's 5K...while keeping the 26.2 mile marathon through 5 Boroughs??
I would think the logistics would be a lot less complicated than they are for the marathon!!

Couldn't they have moved it to Sunday, held it either before or after the marathon??
Maybe move the race site so it wouldn't interfere with the marathon?
Heck, even hold it INDOORS....at the Armory!!
(Be the first results of the 2012-13 indoor "season"!!!)

Anyway, Wittenburg's decision seems dumb to me!!
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:29 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:At least in the hotel quoted(and I'm sure there are others), they are turning away evacuees due to marathon reservations. No marathon, those rooms would be available for the needy.

IMO, eveicting runners, most of whom have flown in from out of town and would have no place to go until their scheduled return flight leaves, would be just as bad as evicting evacuees.



Not a problem had the marathon been cancelled.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby tandfman » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:32 am

guru wrote:
tandfman wrote:
guru wrote:I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation . . .

The $1 million is just the beginning. The Rudin family has added $1.1 million to that pot and one of the race's sponsors put up another $500,000. In addition, the NYRR is soliciting donations from their members.

http://www.nyrr.org/newsroom/nyrr-news- ... athon-fund

Anything other than what the NYRR is donating out of the entry fees they've collected is beside the point.

Not really. They are generating this revenue for the relief effort one way or another. The dollars that the NYRR raised from sponsors and will raise from their members represent revenue that the relief funds would not have had if they had simply cancelled the race.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:36 am

tandfman wrote:
guru wrote:
tandfman wrote:
guru wrote:I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation . . .

The $1 million is just the beginning. The Rudin family has added $1.1 million to that pot and one of the race's sponsors put up another $500,000. In addition, the NYRR is soliciting donations from their members.

http://www.nyrr.org/newsroom/nyrr-news- ... athon-fund

Anything other than what the NYRR is donating out of the entry fees they've collected is beside the point.

Not really. They are generating this revenue for the relief effort one way or another. The dollars that the NYRR raised from sponsors and will raise from their members represent revenue that the relief funds would not have had if they had simply cancelled the race.



Again, for an organization that is realizing $16 million in income thanks to the mayor's decision to allow the race, $1 million is simply not enough, when so many in the city lost EVERYTHING.

If this were truly about "helping the city", as Wittenberg claims, NYRR would donate ALL entry fees to the relief and recovery efforts. I won't hold my breath...
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:46 am

guru wrote:Again, for an organization that is realizing $16 million in income thanks to the mayor's decision to allow the race, $1 million is simply not enough, when so many in the city lost EVERYTHING.

Do you think the NYRR pockets the whole $16 million? How much money do you think it takes for them to put on this race?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby tandfman » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:47 am

guru, you are looking at one item of revenue, and not at all considering the expense side. Neither you nor I have the slightest idea what the bottom line impact of cancellation would have been on the NYRR. To know that, we'd have to know the terms of all of their contracts (with sponsors, tv, the City, athletes, suppliers, hotels, etc.) as well as the provisions of any applicable insurance policies. I haven't a clue about any of those things and I doubt that you do either.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:48 am

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:IMO, eveicting runners, most of whom have flown in from out of town and would have no place to go until their scheduled return flight leaves, would be just as bad as evicting evacuees.



Not a problem had the marathon been cancelled.

I suppose if he had cancelled the race last Friday, that would have been early enough to keep most of the runners from boarding planes to New York, but I would imagine that most of them have already checked into their rooms at this point.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:54 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Again, for an organization that is realizing $16 million in income thanks to the mayor's decision to allow the race, $1 million is simply not enough, when so many in the city lost EVERYTHING.

Do you think the NYRR pockets the whole $16 million? How much money do you think it takes for them to put on this race?



They have alot more revenue than just the entry fees. I dare say the majority comes from sponsors, media contracts, etc.

And had the race been cancelled, and entries refunded / applied to next year, how much of that $16 million would they have?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:58 am

And yes, NYRR has cancellation insurance.

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status ... 0970077184
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:01 am

guru wrote:They have alot more revenue than just the entry fees. I dare say the majority comes from sponsors, media contracts, etc.

And had the race been cancelled, and entries refunded / applied to next year, how much of that $16 million would they have?

You still haven't provided any concrete figures. It's easy to be generous wth other people's money especially when you haven't seen their bank statements.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:05 am

jazzcyclist wrote: It's easy to be generous wth other people's money especially when you haven't seen their bank statements.



How would those bank statements look if the race were cancelled?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby 18.99s » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:18 pm

guru wrote:And yes, NYRR has cancellation insurance.

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status ... 0970077184


If that's true, and the insurance pays for refunding the entrance fees, they're jackasses for not canceling it.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:31 pm

18.99s wrote:
guru wrote:And yes, NYRR has cancellation insurance.

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status ... 0970077184


If that's true, and the insurance pays for refunding the entrance fees, they're jackasses for not canceling it.

I see it differently since all the runners from all over the world and the local businessmen would have still been shit out of luck. If insurance will cover their bottom line, greed can't possibly be their motivating factor for going ahead with the race. Perhaps they're thinking of all those runners and businesses who don't have insurance to cover their losses.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:33 pm

The race should have been cancelled in my opinion. For those who already had flown into the city, they get a vacation out of it.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:18 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:If insurance will cover their bottom line, greed can't possibly be their motivating factor for going ahead with the race.



My guess is insurance only covers expenses, not refunded entry fees
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:20 pm

Media reports in New York saying marathon will not be held

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/NY ... 19721.html
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby doug5321 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:20 pm

my sources say it is now cancelled.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby gh » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:23 pm

NY Post says city officials meeting to discuss tonight.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby bambam » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:25 pm

Just got a tweet from NY Times writer that it is cancelled.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:25 pm

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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby gh » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:26 pm

<<We have decided to cancel the NYC marathon. The New York Road Runners will have additional information in days ahead for participants. >>
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:31 pm

Via MSNBC-

"We would not want a cloud to hang over the race or its participants, and so we have decided to cancel it," New York Mayor Bloomberg says in statement.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby gh » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:00 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:....
I see it differently since all the runners from all over the world and the local businessmen would have still been shit out of luck. If insurance will cover their bottom line, greed can't possibly be their motivating factor for going ahead with the race....


Partially greed, and largely (IMHO) the swagger factor. Bloomberg in a pissing match with the rest of the world (even if the rest of the world isn't playing) to show that New Yorkers are the toughest and can stand up in any kind of adversity.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby gh » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:49 pm

so should the NFL game go on as planned on Sunday? I lean towards yes, its actually being in Jersey, although if it puts a stress on mass transit systems.....
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby Al in NYC » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:20 pm

Got my power back just in time to see the news conference about the marathon cancellation on NY1 (our local cable news channel in NYC). Frankly, Mary Wittenburg was rather too defensive and still looked and sounded clueless about the whole issue, as she teared up about the sacrifices of the (paid) elite runners.

Of course, the marathon should have been cancelled back on Tuesday - at the latest - once it became clear just how devastating the storm had been. It was as if the Mayor's office and NYRR were trying to wish away the extent of the mess the city and the area are in in order to preserve the race.

But the public, political, and media tone was becoming very nasty in this area over the seemingly bizarre decision to bull ahead with the race, no matter what. I think it finally dawned on someone over at the NYRR today that there were actually going to be protests against the race, that runners would be booed and jeered, that the race may be disrupted, and that everyone involved was going to take a lot of heat over the whole thing.

Now NY1 is interviewing people who are leaving the pre-marathon expo at the Javitz Center. People who flew in to run are quite justifiably pissed that they travelled all the way here, on the promise of the city and the race organizers that the marathon would go on as scheduled, only to have the rug pulled out from under them a day-and-a-half before the race.

One has to wonder why the decision wasn't taken much earlier, before they traveled all this way, checked into their hotels, and spent a lot of money. And just who is primarily responsible for the ridiculous way this fiasco was handled - the NYRR, the Mayor's office, or both?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby Al in NYC » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:32 pm

gh wrote:so should the NFL game go on as planned on Sunday? I lean towards yes, its actually being in Jersey, although if it puts a stress on mass transit systems.....


The Giants game is a bit different, because it being held in a location set up for, and dedicated to, the holding of NFL games. It's not taking up city streets, and is in a location that was relatively unscathed by the storm and its aftermath. And most of the Giant crowds arrive by car, not mass transit.

Still, given the condition of other nearby parts of New Jersey, the continuing lack of power for so many people all over the area, the extreme shortage of gasoline throughout the area, the challenges that the road and transportation systems are facing around here, and the fact that many ticketholders will clearly be unable to attend, I think it is a very close decision. I would not have been surprised if they had decided to hold it elsewhere.

But it's not anything like the jaw-droppingly heedless decision that trying to hold the marathon on Sunday was.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby aaronk » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:44 pm

In 1972, in Munich, 11 Israeli's were slaughtered by terrorists....yet the Games went on!!

In 1989, a massive earthquake hit the San Francisco Bay Area, killing around 60 people, destroying a portion of the Oakland-Bay Bridge, and shutting down the BART system!! Yet the Series was only postponed, not cancelled!!

Can't wait to see what the NYRR have to say about this!!
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby KevinM » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:10 pm

aaronk wrote:In 1972, in Munich, 11 Israeli's were slaughtered by terrorists....yet the Games went on!!

In 1989, a massive earthquake hit the San Francisco Bay Area, killing around 60 people, destroying a portion of the Oakland-Bay Bridge, and shutting down the BART system!! Yet the Series was only postponed, not cancelled!!

Can't wait to see what the NYRR have to say about this!!


I think it's wrongheaded to rest this decision solely on NYRR. They are certainly headed by someone with ambition on obnoxious overdrive at times, but as gh mentions, Bloomberg is at least equally complicit (if not more so).

Coming on the heels of the somewhat scathing NY Times article about the exorbitant fees and rapid growth of the race, it will be interesting to see if NYRR reads the glaringly obvious tea leaves and makes things a bit more modest,affordable, true to its roots in coming years, or if they double down to make up from lost revenue this year.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby bobguild76 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:15 pm

In light of the massive clean up, and the unique demands the marathon puts on the city, 'twas a good decision to cancel. With scheduling the way it is, I don't know if the NYRR could move a 50,000 runner event to another Sunday.

For the vast majority of runners, it will be sad to not have the race. But, for the elite men & women, the impact is greater. Wilson Kipsang wants to prove the Olympic Bronze was an off day. Moses Mosop wants to prove he's the best. Meb wants to get a chance to run another competitive marathon and go sub 2:09.

Tike Gelana wants to build on her Olympic victory. Tatyana Arkhipova wants to build on her Bronze. Edna Kiplagat wants to put her Olympic race behind her.

There isn't any way to replicate the competitive nature of the NYC elite fields. In my dream world, wouldn't it be nice to have the elite fields run next Sunday? Provided the clean up is progressing. Again, it would be hard to work the logistics regarding closing roads and bridges on a weeks notice ... but it would a far lighter footprint, since there would be maybe 100 men and 100 women. If only ...

An additional question ... How will this affect the WMM standings and payout?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby ExCoastRanger » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:45 pm

bobguild76 wrote:For the vast majority of runners, it will be sad to not have the race. But, for the elite men & women, the impact is greater....


You have it backwards.
The elites did not have to pay hundreds of dollars to enter the race, more to rent their own hotel rooms, more to reach NYC. They did not have to take time off work for a long weekend. They likely did not train for the better part of a year with this one event as their singular focus. And they probably already have offers (or agents seeking offers) for all-expenses-paid trips to other races in the coming weeks.
For the elites this is an inconvenience at the worst.
The vast majority of runners are actually really screwed and it will impact them in very real ways.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:12 pm

gh wrote:<<We have decided to cancel the NYC marathon. The New York Road Runners will have additional information in days ahead for participants. >>

Ed Rendell probably thinks they're a bunch of wussies.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:57 pm

ExCoastRanger wrote:
bobguild76 wrote:For the vast majority of runners, it will be sad to not have the race. But, for the elite men & women, the impact is greater....


You have it backwards.
The elites did not have to pay hundreds of dollars to enter the race, more to rent their own hotel rooms, more to reach NYC. They did not have to take time off work for a long weekend. They likely did not train for the better part of a year with this one event as their singular focus. And they probably already have offers (or agents seeking offers) for all-expenses-paid trips to other races in the coming weeks.
For the elites this is an inconvenience at the worst.
The vast majority of runners are actually really screwed and it will impact them in very real ways.


I do not know if you are being facetious or not, but the elites get very few paydays and this was one of them. How about if you did not get paid for the next half of the year?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:21 pm

ExCoastRanger wrote:They likely did not train for the better part of a year with this one event as their singular focus. And they probably already have offers (or agents seeking offers) for all-expenses-paid trips to other races in the coming weeks.
For the elites this is an inconvenience at the worst.

You don't seem to have a grasp on what world-class marathoning involves these days.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:33 pm

Wittenberg and Bloomberg did no one any favors as they stubbornly sharpened their Nero impressions all week...

I have tremendous sympathy for the runners, elite and average. If it were me here's what I would do as NYRR president(forgetting for the moment I would have postponed/cancelled on Wednesday...)

1. Refund all entry fees for this year. A no-brainer.

2. Offer FREE entry to next year's race for anyone who made the trip to NY for this year's event. It probably won't offset all the expenses incurred, but would be a reasonable goodwill gesture.

3. Use the buses chartered to transport runners/belongings Sunday to take any runners/volunteers who wish to utilize Sunday as a day of service to Staten Island, Brooklyn, New Jersey, or any of the hard hit and still-recovering areas of the region.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:02 pm

ExCoastRanger wrote:
bobguild76 wrote:For the vast majority of runners, it will be sad to not have the race. But, for the elite men & women, the impact is greater....


You have it backwards.
The elites did not have to pay hundreds of dollars to enter the race, more to rent their own hotel rooms, more to reach NYC. They did not have to take time off work for a long weekend. They likely did not train for the better part of a year with this one event as their singular focus. And they probably already have offers (or agents seeking offers) for all-expenses-paid trips to other races in the coming weeks.
For the elites this is an inconvenience at the worst.
The vast majority of runners are actually really screwed and it will impact them in very real ways.


It's a glorified vacation for most of the field. It's still a vacation for them.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:08 pm

gh wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:....
I see it differently since all the runners from all over the world and the local businessmen would have still been shit out of luck. If insurance will cover their bottom line, greed can't possibly be their motivating factor for going ahead with the race....


Partially greed, and largely (IMHO) the swagger factor. Bloomberg in a pissing match with the rest of the world (even if the rest of the world isn't playing) to show that New Yorkers are the toughest and can stand up in any kind of adversity.


I felt he was trying to Giuliani the Marathon in an attempt to make it seem as if everything was ok. It's not ok yet. It will be. But it isn't now.

NFL games and NBA games can be different. Those are held in one spot and, for all intents and purposes, can be played in an empty stadium if need be.

The NYC Marathon, in addition to being a competitive event for some, is always presented in a "celebratory" fashion which would have seemed ridiculous at this juncture. The race was appropriately cancelled. I'm from NY, have run in many NYC marathons and still have friends and family without some basic necessities. Running the race would have been absurd.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby j-a-m » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:57 pm

26mi235 wrote: I do not know if you are being facetious or not, but the elites get very few paydays and this was one of them. How about if you did not get paid for the next half of the year?

Do they not get paid at all? In other words, do the contracts they sign give the event organizer the option to arbitrarily cancel the event?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby j-a-m » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:58 pm

ExCoastRanger wrote:The vast majority of runners are actually really screwed and it will impact them in very real ways.

Yes, and the cancellation came too late to adequatley change travel plans.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby j-a-m » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:01 am

guru wrote:I have tremendous sympathy for the runners, elite and average.

Yes, and according to the official statement, running the event would not even have diverted resources from rescue efforts. The statement makes it clear that the event was cancelled just for political reasons.
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