My own view is that if it can be run without endangering the participants, it should be run. And I haven't read anything yet that suggests that they won't be able to do that.
I'd be more concerned about "endangering" the residents of the city, whose police/fire/emergency services must already be stretched to the limit.
tandfman wrote:I just saw a tweet that said that NYRR has cancelled the 5K race Saturday morning. No confirmation of that yet on the NYRR website. (I must say, though, that it is not at all unusual for information about NYRR events to be released to the media prior to being posted on their website.)
I've now read that Mary Wittenberg has denied this. She says the 5K is still on, as of now.
My take is Wittenberg couldn't care less if 15 people come to the line Sunday. But as long as they don't have to cancel they have solid legal ground to keep all the entry fees.
guru wrote:My take is Wittenberg couldn't care less if 15 people come to the line Sunday. But as long as they don't have to cancel they have solid legal ground to keep all the entry fees.
I'm guessing that they'll refund the entry fees of those who couldn't get to NYC because of the storm, or at least give people a credit that can be used for next year's entry fee.
<<Those who aren’t able to make it to the race will receive automatic entry next year. No refunds will be given and the 2013 entry fee must be paid. This year’s race cost $255 for U.S. residents and $347 for international runners.>>
Let's see if that stands up. The NYRR had to backtrack a few months ago when they changed their bag pick-up policy. I'm guessing that the publicity over the non-refund policy could get even uglier.
I can understand why they want to keep the money. They're undoubtedly being saddled with all sorts of extra expenses because of Sandy--among other things, I'm sure the Mayor drove a hard bargain before agreeing to commit the resources that will be needed to clear the course. But still, I can foresee a loud outcry over this, and I wouldn't be surprised if the NYRR made some kind of accommodation beyond simply granting entry into next year's race (with full fees).
My own view is that if it can be run without endangering the participants, it should be run. And I haven't read anything yet that suggests that they won't be able to do that.
I'd be more concerned about "endangering" the residents of the city, whose police/fire/emergency services must already be stretched to the limit. I can well see what the average citizen might feel it's in bad taste to run. Screw the "show the world we're resilient" PR attitude.
Christine Brennan of USA Today agrees with you. (Story linked on front page.)
Too bad the race is not two or three weeks later (or rather, Sandy two or three weeks earlier.) That might enough time to safely and properly host it, and all the NYC rah-rah folks could use that as a coming-together-in-hurricane-recovery event.
DrJay wrote:I talked to a friend yesterday whose wife is to do make her marathon debut in NYC, aiming for 2:30. If she can't get there, one option for her is Fukuoka, Dec 2. If a bunch of elite athletes can't get to NY, perhaps Fukuoka will have a loaded field this year.
fukuoka i believe is and has always been a mens only race.
In any case, Fukuoka doesn't seem to have the financial wherewithal to buy a loaded field, and that's the only way you get one in modern marathoning.
But if you're an elite runner, with two marathons a year in your legs and NYC was to be one of them, you're trained and fit, peaking now, what do you do? Look for another marathon in the next month, adjust your training for that as best you can? Are there any other reasonbaly big marathons in the next month? Or do find a couple of shorter road races to run, 10K to 20K? Or just blow it off and start spooling up for Boston, London, etc?
You're ignoring the economic impact on the city (estimated at $350 million) and the $26 million raised for many charities. The former is surely a good part of what induced the Mayor to give the green light to going ahead with the event.
tandfman wrote:... the $26 million raised for many charities. ...is surely a good part of what induced the Mayor to give the green light to going ahead with the event.
Yes, well considering Bloomberg just saved the NYRR $14 million, let's see how much of that they give back to the relief efforts. And I don't mean leftover bagels and oranges from the race.
I see NYRR is now giving $1 million to Sandy relief. That's great, but frankly a pittance compared to what they will take in by having the marathon go on as scheduled.
In fact, I looked at last year's numbers. Even assuming there was no increase in entry revenue(unlikely, since that was realized long before Sandy hit), the 2011 financials(using 2012 entry fees) are telling.
Lottery Entrants US - 4894 x $255 - $1,247,970 Intl - 2210 x $347 - $766,870
Guaranteed Entrants 28412 x $255 - $7,245,060
International Travel Partners(via travel agencies) 19000 x $347 - $6,593,000
Grand Total - $15,852,900(does not include NYRR cut of 7500 charity entries, or additional entry amount for any international "guaranteed entrants")
So, frankly, I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation, considering they stood to lose at least $16 million if the race was cancelled.
Anson Mount wrote:Out of curiosity, if I were to show up at a major NYC Marathon checkpoint and scream, "Too soon, you fu*king as*holes", who would show up to join me?
26mi235 wrote:A lot of small merchants and eateries might not make it through without the additional revenues provided by the race.
The few that are open.
And for those who say the marathon will have no negative impact on the survivors, how about evacuees getting kicked out of hotels to make room for runners?
Here's one hotel that's telling the runners too bad.
guru wrote:I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation . . .
The $1 million is just the beginning. The Rudin family has added $1.1 million to that pot and one of the race's sponsors put up another $500,000. In addition, the NYRR is soliciting donations from their members.
guru wrote:I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation . . .
The $1 million is just the beginning. The Rudin family has added $1.1 million to that pot and one of the race's sponsors put up another $500,000. In addition, the NYRR is soliciting donations from their members.
And for those who say the marathon will have no negative impact on the survivors, how about evacuees getting kicked out of hotels to make room for runners?
Here's one hotel that's telling the runners too bad.
I doubt very seriously that Sandy evacuees will be kicked out of hotel rooms to make room for runners based on previous history of similar events. After Katrina, the Baton Rouge hotels were full of evacuees for most of the football seaon and LSU's opponents all had to fly in on the day of the game. Also, it's being reported on ESPN that the Pittsburgh Steelers will be forced to fly into New York on Sunday morning due to a lack of hotel rooms.
On GMA this morning they showed two massive generators sitting idle in Central Park, presumably waiting to be used Sunday. That's not going to be a popular picture!
jazzcyclist wrote:I doubt very seriously that Sandy evacuees will be kicked out of hotel rooms to make room for runners based on previous history of similar events.
“Those marathon rooms were booked months ago,” said Karen Yam, a desk clerk at the DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Metropolitan on Lexington Avenue in midtown Manhattan. About 60 to 70 of the property’s 775 rooms will be occupied by people in town for the race, she said. “It’s been very difficult and frustrating to turn people down from downtown and the suburbs.”
jazzcyclist wrote:I doubt very seriously that Sandy evacuees will be kicked out of hotel rooms to make room for runners based on previous history of similar events.
“Those marathon rooms were booked months ago,” said Karen Yam, a desk clerk at the DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Metropolitan on Lexington Avenue in midtown Manhattan. About 60 to 70 of the property’s 775 rooms will be occupied by people in town for the race, she said. “It’s been very difficult and frustrating to turn people down from downtown and the suburbs.”
Nothing in that article indicates they're evicting evacuees from hotel rooms that they already occuppy.
jazzcyclist wrote:I doubt very seriously that Sandy evacuees will be kicked out of hotel rooms to make room for runners based on previous history of similar events.
“Those marathon rooms were booked months ago,” said Karen Yam, a desk clerk at the DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Metropolitan on Lexington Avenue in midtown Manhattan. About 60 to 70 of the property’s 775 rooms will be occupied by people in town for the race, she said. “It’s been very difficult and frustrating to turn people down from downtown and the suburbs.”
Nothing in that article indicates they're evicting evacuees from hotel rooms.
At least in the hotel quoted(and I'm sure there are others), they are turning away evacuees due to marathon reservations. No marathon, those rooms would be available for the needy.
Bloomberg deflecting in his press conference today, comparing his decision to allow the marathon to Rudy Giuliani's decision to allow it following 9/11. Of course, the 2001 marathon was almost two months after the terrorist attacks.
guru wrote:At least in the hotel quoted(and I'm sure there are others), they are turning away evacuees due to marathon reservations. No marathon, those rooms would be available for the needy.
IMO, eveicting runners, most of whom have flown in from out of town and would have no place to go until their scheduled return flight leaves, would be just as bad as evicting evacuees. I also noted this excerpt from the article you linked:
Hotels, meanwhile, are already full of employees of firms such as Morgan Stanley and UBS AG who are renting rooms in Manhattan, along with other local residents unable or unwilling to return to homes ravaged by Sandy’s rain, wind and flooding.
It sounds like a lot of evacuees have already been accommodated and the hotels have a first-come-first-serve policy. Perhaps the hotels should have contacted the runners last weekend before they all boarded planes to New York and told them not to come, if evacuees were going to be the #1 priority.
Why did they have to cancel Saturday's 5K...while keeping the 26.2 mile marathon through 5 Boroughs?? I would think the logistics would be a lot less complicated than they are for the marathon!!
Couldn't they have moved it to Sunday, held it either before or after the marathon?? Maybe move the race site so it wouldn't interfere with the marathon? Heck, even hold it INDOORS....at the Armory!! (Be the first results of the 2012-13 indoor "season"!!!)
guru wrote:At least in the hotel quoted(and I'm sure there are others), they are turning away evacuees due to marathon reservations. No marathon, those rooms would be available for the needy.
IMO, eveicting runners, most of whom have flown in from out of town and would have no place to go until their scheduled return flight leaves, would be just as bad as evicting evacuees.
guru wrote:I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation . . .
The $1 million is just the beginning. The Rudin family has added $1.1 million to that pot and one of the race's sponsors put up another $500,000. In addition, the NYRR is soliciting donations from their members.
Anything other than what the NYRR is donating out of the entry fees they've collected is beside the point.
Not really. They are generating this revenue for the relief effort one way or another. The dollars that the NYRR raised from sponsors and will raise from their members represent revenue that the relief funds would not have had if they had simply cancelled the race.
guru wrote:I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation . . .
The $1 million is just the beginning. The Rudin family has added $1.1 million to that pot and one of the race's sponsors put up another $500,000. In addition, the NYRR is soliciting donations from their members.
Anything other than what the NYRR is donating out of the entry fees they've collected is beside the point.
Not really. They are generating this revenue for the relief effort one way or another. The dollars that the NYRR raised from sponsors and will raise from their members represent revenue that the relief funds would not have had if they had simply cancelled the race.
Again, for an organization that is realizing $16 million in income thanks to the mayor's decision to allow the race, $1 million is simply not enough, when so many in the city lost EVERYTHING.
If this were truly about "helping the city", as Wittenberg claims, NYRR would donate ALL entry fees to the relief and recovery efforts. I won't hold my breath...
