nyc marathon and weather


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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:52 am

gh wrote:
tandfman wrote:Good Grief! Someone has opened this facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cancel-2 ... 5321179684

My own view is that if it can be run without endangering the participants, it should be run. And I haven't read anything yet that suggests that they won't be able to do that.


I'd be more concerned about "endangering" the residents of the city, whose police/fire/emergency services must already be stretched to the limit.




I think that's exactly right.

http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10 ... s-cut?lite
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby tandfman » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:55 am

tandfman wrote:I just saw a tweet that said that NYRR has cancelled the 5K race Saturday morning. No confirmation of that yet on the NYRR website. (I must say, though, that it is not at all unusual for information about NYRR events to be released to the media prior to being posted on their website.)

I've now read that Mary Wittenberg has denied this. She says the 5K is still on, as of now.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:11 pm

My take is Wittenberg couldn't care less if 15 people come to the line Sunday. But as long as they don't have to cancel they have solid legal ground to keep all the entry fees.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby tandfman » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:52 pm

guru wrote:My take is Wittenberg couldn't care less if 15 people come to the line Sunday. But as long as they don't have to cancel they have solid legal ground to keep all the entry fees.

I'm guessing that they'll refund the entry fees of those who couldn't get to NYC because of the storm, or at least give people a credit that can be used for next year's entry fee.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby gh » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:58 pm

no such luck, says Bloomberg:

<<Those who aren’t able to make it to the race will receive automatic entry next year. No refunds will be given and the 2013 entry fee must be paid. This year’s race cost $255 for U.S. residents and $347 for international runners.>>
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby tandfman » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:05 pm

Let's see if that stands up. The NYRR had to backtrack a few months ago when they changed their bag pick-up policy. I'm guessing that the publicity over the non-refund policy could get even uglier.

I can understand why they want to keep the money. They're undoubtedly being saddled with all sorts of extra expenses because of Sandy--among other things, I'm sure the Mayor drove a hard bargain before agreeing to commit the resources that will be needed to clear the course. But still, I can foresee a loud outcry over this, and I wouldn't be surprised if the NYRR made some kind of accommodation beyond simply granting entry into next year's race (with full fees).
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:11 pm

tandfman wrote:I can understand why they want to keep the money.



50,000 x $280 = $14 million
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby tandfman » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:13 pm

gh wrote:
tandfman wrote:Good Grief! Someone has opened this facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cancel-2 ... 5321179684

My own view is that if it can be run without endangering the participants, it should be run. And I haven't read anything yet that suggests that they won't be able to do that.

I'd be more concerned about "endangering" the residents of the city, whose police/fire/emergency services must already be stretched to the limit. I can well see what the average citizen might feel it's in bad taste to run. Screw the "show the world we're resilient" PR attitude.

Christine Brennan of USA Today agrees with you. (Story linked on front page.)
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby DrJay » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:00 pm

Too bad the race is not two or three weeks later (or rather, Sandy two or three weeks earlier.) That might enough time to safely and properly host it, and all the NYC rah-rah folks could use that as a coming-together-in-hurricane-recovery event.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby DrJay » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:06 pm

gh wrote:
doug5321 wrote:
DrJay wrote:I talked to a friend yesterday whose wife is to do make her marathon debut in NYC, aiming for 2:30. If she can't get there, one option for her is Fukuoka, Dec 2. If a bunch of elite athletes can't get to NY, perhaps Fukuoka will have a loaded field this year.



fukuoka i believe is and has always been a mens only race.


In any case, Fukuoka doesn't seem to have the financial wherewithal to buy a loaded field, and that's the only way you get one in modern marathoning.


But if you're an elite runner, with two marathons a year in your legs and NYC was to be one of them, you're trained and fit, peaking now, what do you do? Look for another marathon in the next month, adjust your training for that as best you can? Are there any other reasonbaly big marathons in the next month? Or do find a couple of shorter road races to run, 10K to 20K? Or just blow it off and start spooling up for Boston, London, etc?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby gh » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:11 pm

the answer is simple.... Honolulu!!!!
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby DrJay » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:15 pm

gh wrote:the answer is simple.... Honolulu!!!!


On NPR's Morning Edition today they mentioned the poor souls that, due to flight cancellations, are stranded in Hawaii. Terrible fate!
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby Mighty Favog » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:59 pm

I wonder how much the (re)new(ed) live TV coverage of the NYC race has factored into the insistence to keep the race going.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:46 pm

Mighty Favog wrote:I wonder how much the (re)new(ed) live TV coverage of the NYC race has factored into the insistence to keep the race going.



More likely the prospect of refunding $14 million in entry fees
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby lonewolf » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:22 pm

guru wrote:
Mighty Favog wrote:I wonder how much the (re)new(ed) live TV coverage of the NYC race has factored into the insistence to keep the race going.



More likely the prospect of refunding $14 million in entry fees

There's the answer.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby tandfman » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:47 am

You're ignoring the economic impact on the city (estimated at $350 million) and the $26 million raised for many charities. The former is surely a good part of what induced the Mayor to give the green light to going ahead with the event.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby Walt Murphy » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:08 am

Mary Wittenberg will give her side of the story on the Today Show in just a bit.

Edit: Wittenberg just confirmed that Saturday's 5k race has been canceled.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:17 pm

tandfman wrote:... the $26 million raised for many charities. ...is surely a good part of what induced the Mayor to give the green light to going ahead with the event.



Yes, well considering Bloomberg just saved the NYRR $14 million, let's see how much of that they give back to the relief efforts. And I don't mean leftover bagels and oranges from the race.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:26 pm

I see NYRR is now giving $1 million to Sandy relief. That's great, but frankly a pittance compared to what they will take in by having the marathon go on as scheduled.

In fact, I looked at last year's numbers. Even assuming there was no increase in entry revenue(unlikely, since that was realized long before Sandy hit), the 2011 financials(using 2012 entry fees) are telling.

Lottery Entrants
US - 4894 x $255 - $1,247,970
Intl - 2210 x $347 - $766,870

Guaranteed Entrants
28412 x $255 - $7,245,060

International Travel Partners(via travel agencies)
19000 x $347 - $6,593,000

Grand Total - $15,852,900(does not include NYRR cut of 7500 charity entries, or additional entry amount for any international "guaranteed entrants")


So, frankly, I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation, considering they stood to lose at least $16 million if the race was cancelled.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:43 pm

Well, Anson Mount - star of AMC's Hell on Wheels, New Yorker, and runner - has made his feelings known lol

http://www.facebook.com/ansonmount1/pos ... 1483199108


Anson Mount wrote:Out of curiosity, if I were to show up at a major NYC Marathon checkpoint and scream, "Too soon, you fu*king as*holes", who would show up to join me?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:06 pm

A lot of small merchants and eateries might not make it through without the additional revenues provided by the race.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:15 pm

26mi235 wrote:A lot of small merchants and eateries might not make it through without the additional revenues provided by the race.



The few that are open.


And for those who say the marathon will have no negative impact on the survivors, how about evacuees getting kicked out of hotels to make room for runners?

Here's one hotel that's telling the runners too bad.

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/ ... servations
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby tandfman » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:23 am

guru wrote:I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation . . .


The $1 million is just the beginning. The Rudin family has added $1.1 million to that pot and one of the race's sponsors put up another $500,000. In addition, the NYRR is soliciting donations from their members.

http://www.nyrr.org/newsroom/nyrr-news- ... athon-fund
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:55 am

tandfman wrote:
guru wrote:I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation . . .


The $1 million is just the beginning. The Rudin family has added $1.1 million to that pot and one of the race's sponsors put up another $500,000. In addition, the NYRR is soliciting donations from their members.

http://www.nyrr.org/newsroom/nyrr-news- ... athon-fund



Anything other than what the NYRR is donating out of the entry fees they've collected is beside the point.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:49 am

guru wrote:The few that are open.


And for those who say the marathon will have no negative impact on the survivors, how about evacuees getting kicked out of hotels to make room for runners?

Here's one hotel that's telling the runners too bad.

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/ ... servations

I doubt very seriously that Sandy evacuees will be kicked out of hotel rooms to make room for runners based on previous history of similar events. After Katrina, the Baton Rouge hotels were full of evacuees for most of the football seaon and LSU's opponents all had to fly in on the day of the game. Also, it's being reported on ESPN that the Pittsburgh Steelers will be forced to fly into New York on Sunday morning due to a lack of hotel rooms.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby huntinwr » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:52 am

On GMA this morning they showed two massive generators sitting idle in Central Park, presumably waiting to be used Sunday. That's not going to be a popular picture! :(
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:54 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I doubt very seriously that Sandy evacuees will be kicked out of hotel rooms to make room for runners based on previous history of similar events.



http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloomber ... 003539.php

“Those marathon rooms were booked months ago,” said Karen Yam, a desk clerk at the DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Metropolitan on Lexington Avenue in midtown Manhattan. About 60 to 70 of the property’s 775 rooms will be occupied by people in town for the race, she said. “It’s been very difficult and frustrating to turn people down from downtown and the suburbs.”

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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:05 am

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:I doubt very seriously that Sandy evacuees will be kicked out of hotel rooms to make room for runners based on previous history of similar events.



http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloomber ... 003539.php

“Those marathon rooms were booked months ago,” said Karen Yam, a desk clerk at the DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Metropolitan on Lexington Avenue in midtown Manhattan. About 60 to 70 of the property’s 775 rooms will be occupied by people in town for the race, she said. “It’s been very difficult and frustrating to turn people down from downtown and the suburbs.”


Nothing in that article indicates they're evicting evacuees from hotel rooms that they already occuppy.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:08 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:I doubt very seriously that Sandy evacuees will be kicked out of hotel rooms to make room for runners based on previous history of similar events.



http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloomber ... 003539.php

“Those marathon rooms were booked months ago,” said Karen Yam, a desk clerk at the DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Metropolitan on Lexington Avenue in midtown Manhattan. About 60 to 70 of the property’s 775 rooms will be occupied by people in town for the race, she said. “It’s been very difficult and frustrating to turn people down from downtown and the suburbs.”


Nothing in that article indicates they're evicting evacuees from hotel rooms.



At least in the hotel quoted(and I'm sure there are others), they are turning away evacuees due to marathon reservations. No marathon, those rooms would be available for the needy.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:14 am

Bloomberg deflecting in his press conference today, comparing his decision to allow the marathon to Rudy Giuliani's decision to allow it following 9/11. Of course, the 2001 marathon was almost two months after the terrorist attacks.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:25 am

guru wrote:At least in the hotel quoted(and I'm sure there are others), they are turning away evacuees due to marathon reservations. No marathon, those rooms would be available for the needy.

IMO, eveicting runners, most of whom have flown in from out of town and would have no place to go until their scheduled return flight leaves, would be just as bad as evicting evacuees. I also noted this excerpt from the article you linked:
Hotels, meanwhile, are already full of employees of firms such as Morgan Stanley and UBS AG who are renting rooms in Manhattan, along with other local residents unable or unwilling to return to homes ravaged by Sandy’s rain, wind and flooding.

It sounds like a lot of evacuees have already been accommodated and the hotels have a first-come-first-serve policy. Perhaps the hotels should have contacted the runners last weekend before they all boarded planes to New York and told them not to come, if evacuees were going to be the #1 priority.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby aaronk » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:26 am

Maybe a dumb naive question, but......

Why did they have to cancel Saturday's 5K...while keeping the 26.2 mile marathon through 5 Boroughs??
I would think the logistics would be a lot less complicated than they are for the marathon!!

Couldn't they have moved it to Sunday, held it either before or after the marathon??
Maybe move the race site so it wouldn't interfere with the marathon?
Heck, even hold it INDOORS....at the Armory!!
(Be the first results of the 2012-13 indoor "season"!!!)

Anyway, Wittenburg's decision seems dumb to me!!
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:29 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:At least in the hotel quoted(and I'm sure there are others), they are turning away evacuees due to marathon reservations. No marathon, those rooms would be available for the needy.

IMO, eveicting runners, most of whom have flown in from out of town and would have no place to go until their scheduled return flight leaves, would be just as bad as evicting evacuees.



Not a problem had the marathon been cancelled.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby tandfman » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:32 am

guru wrote:
tandfman wrote:
guru wrote:I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation . . .

The $1 million is just the beginning. The Rudin family has added $1.1 million to that pot and one of the race's sponsors put up another $500,000. In addition, the NYRR is soliciting donations from their members.

http://www.nyrr.org/newsroom/nyrr-news- ... athon-fund

Anything other than what the NYRR is donating out of the entry fees they've collected is beside the point.

Not really. They are generating this revenue for the relief effort one way or another. The dollars that the NYRR raised from sponsors and will raise from their members represent revenue that the relief funds would not have had if they had simply cancelled the race.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:36 am

tandfman wrote:
guru wrote:
tandfman wrote:
guru wrote:I'm not impressed by the $1 million donation . . .

The $1 million is just the beginning. The Rudin family has added $1.1 million to that pot and one of the race's sponsors put up another $500,000. In addition, the NYRR is soliciting donations from their members.

http://www.nyrr.org/newsroom/nyrr-news- ... athon-fund

Anything other than what the NYRR is donating out of the entry fees they've collected is beside the point.

Not really. They are generating this revenue for the relief effort one way or another. The dollars that the NYRR raised from sponsors and will raise from their members represent revenue that the relief funds would not have had if they had simply cancelled the race.



Again, for an organization that is realizing $16 million in income thanks to the mayor's decision to allow the race, $1 million is simply not enough, when so many in the city lost EVERYTHING.

If this were truly about "helping the city", as Wittenberg claims, NYRR would donate ALL entry fees to the relief and recovery efforts. I won't hold my breath...
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:46 am

guru wrote:Again, for an organization that is realizing $16 million in income thanks to the mayor's decision to allow the race, $1 million is simply not enough, when so many in the city lost EVERYTHING.

Do you think the NYRR pockets the whole $16 million? How much money do you think it takes for them to put on this race?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby tandfman » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:47 am

guru, you are looking at one item of revenue, and not at all considering the expense side. Neither you nor I have the slightest idea what the bottom line impact of cancellation would have been on the NYRR. To know that, we'd have to know the terms of all of their contracts (with sponsors, tv, the City, athletes, suppliers, hotels, etc.) as well as the provisions of any applicable insurance policies. I haven't a clue about any of those things and I doubt that you do either.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:48 am

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:IMO, eveicting runners, most of whom have flown in from out of town and would have no place to go until their scheduled return flight leaves, would be just as bad as evicting evacuees.



Not a problem had the marathon been cancelled.

I suppose if he had cancelled the race last Friday, that would have been early enough to keep most of the runners from boarding planes to New York, but I would imagine that most of them have already checked into their rooms at this point.
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:54 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Again, for an organization that is realizing $16 million in income thanks to the mayor's decision to allow the race, $1 million is simply not enough, when so many in the city lost EVERYTHING.

Do you think the NYRR pockets the whole $16 million? How much money do you think it takes for them to put on this race?



They have alot more revenue than just the entry fees. I dare say the majority comes from sponsors, media contracts, etc.

And had the race been cancelled, and entries refunded / applied to next year, how much of that $16 million would they have?
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Re: nyc marathon and weather

Postby guru » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:58 am

And yes, NYRR has cancellation insurance.

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status ... 0970077184
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