nyc marathon and weather

[jazzcyclist]

Phil Hersh gets it right.


Especially with reports like this:

Reports circulated that volunteers setting up equipment had been pelted with eggs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/sport ... ref=sports

Pelting the volunteers with eggs? That's pretty pathetic IMO. That makes me less sympathetic to storm victims, not more.

[guru]

Pelting the volunteers with eggs? That's pretty pathetic IMO.

If it actually happened, which is dubious when the source is "reports circulated"

That makes me less sympathetic to storm victims.

Even if it did happen, you think it was storm victims that were doing the pelting? My guess is any storm victims that had access to eggs would eat them, on the spot.

[Bruce Kritzler]

But it's ok for NFL and NBA games to go on?

[jazzcyclist]

I wasn't talking about power outages for a couple days that can of course be expected following such a storm. I'm not in NYC, but from the media coverage it seems those outages are expected to last for weeks. And with respect to that, I would put significant blame on Con Ed (or whatever the utilties company is).

And if Con Ed doesn't manage to turn power back on within a week, then I'd consider it their responsibility to find backup generators. So when a newspaper blames a lack of electricity one week after the hurricane on someone else, then yeah, they're just looking for scapegoats.

As someone who lives in an area that is regularly hit with hurricanes, you obviously don't have a clue about the monumental challenges that power companies must deal with after a storm of this magnitude, EVEN when they're fully prepared for the storm. Before Hurricane Gustav hit, the parking lots of the local hotels and motels were full of utility trucks from all over the country, driven by thousands of utility workers ready to go to work after the storm passed, but it still took weeks for for many people to get power back. As a matter of fact, it took weeks before some roads were even passible due to all the trees that had to be clear out of the way.

[jazzcyclist]

Even if it did happen, you think it was storm victims that were doing the pelting? My guess is any storm victims that had access to eggs would eat them, on the spot.

Are you being funny or do you really believe it's plausible that folks from areas unaffected by the storm traveled to the storm affected areas just to throw eggs at race volunteers?

[guru]

Even if it did happen, you think it was storm victims that were doing the pelting? My guess is any storm victims that had access to eggs would eat them, on the spot.

Are you being funny or do you really believe it's plausible that folks from areas unaffected by the storm traveled to the storm affected areas just to throw eggs at race volunteers?

I have no clue what you just said, but I do know it's NOT plausible that victims traveled from shelters or their destroyed homes just to pelt race volunteers(keeping in mind you said the reported pelting make you less sympathetic to the victims)

[jazzcyclist]

I have no clue what you just said, but I do know it's NOT plausible that victims traveled from shelters or their destroyed homes just to pelt race volunteers(keeping in mind you said the reported pelting make you less sympathetic to the victims)

Ah, now comes predictable dissembling and obfuscation. The bottom line is that you don't know who alledgedly pelted race volunteers with eggs, so why did you try to come up with some far-fetched theory about outsiders who weren't storm victims doing it?

[guru]

I have no clue what you just said, but I do know it's NOT plausible that victims traveled from shelters or their destroyed homes just to pelt race volunteers(keeping in mind you said the reported pelting make you less sympathetic to the victims)

Ah, now comes predictable dissembling and obfuscation. The bottom line is that you don't know who alledgedly pelted race volunteers with eggs, so why did you try to come up with some far-fetched theory about outsiders who weren't storm victims doing it?

Oh, so you ARE saying that people would leave shelters, and from salvaging what they can from their destroyed homes, to seek out marathon volunteers for egg pelting.

Okie doke...

[Al in NYC]

The Times story makes clear that, while the NYRR and Wittenberg acted rather cluelessly, they had reached the right decision by Friday morning and it was our often-too-stubborn-for-his-own-good Mayor who held out to nearly the very last minute. Whatever his other qualities as a Mayor, Bloomberg sometimes seems to substitute what he thinks should be happening for the reality of what is actually going on.

The story - rather irresponsibly in my view - says only that "reports circulated" about the egging of volunteers and equipment, which is far from a confirmation that such a thing actually happened. However, I have no doubt that there would have been active protests, and perhaps even disruptions, of the race had it gone on. Such was the tide of anger here in the hard-hit outer boroughs over what was seen as a typically high-handed Manahattan-centric decision to hold the race despite the ongoing human disaster unfolding nearby.

[Dutra5]

You're joking, right? This was a hurricane with 90 MPH winds that created a 7 to 15 foot storm surge that hit at high tide during a full moon. There's not a power system anywhere that is designed to handle something like that.

I wasn't talking about power outages for a couple days that can of course be expected following such a storm. I'm not in NYC, but from the media coverage it seems those outages are expected to last for weeks. And with respect to that, I would put significant blame on Con Ed (or whatever the utilties company is).

And if Con Ed doesn't manage to turn power back on within a week, then I'd consider it their responsibility to find backup generators. So when a newspaper blames a lack of electricity one week after the hurricane on someone else, then yeah, they're just looking for scapegoats.

As another who lives in an area prone to hurricanes, I will back jazzy's comments that you really have no clue as to the scope involved in repaired the damage under these circumstances. In addition to the available local equipment, power trucks from many parts of the country were mobilized into the area....which for those unaware is normal course of business....yet the area involved is so wide ranging that repairing the damage above and below ground is a monumental task.

But yeah....continue to propose your own uninformed deadlines on the situation.

[Dutra5]

The Times story makes clear that, while the NYRR and Wittenberg acted rather cluelessly, they had reached the right decision by Friday morning and it was our often-too-stubborn-for-his-own-good Mayor who held out to nearly the very last minute. Whatever his other qualities as a Mayor, Bloomberg sometimes seems to substitute what he thinks should be happening for the reality of what is actually going on.

I think the initial announcement to intend to run the race was simply made too soon as I think too many simply figured the situation would improve in a more expedited fashion than it did. Then they waited likely a day or two too long to change their mind. I think Bloomy was looking for his Guliani moment in declaring that the world is still moving forward and it blew up a bit in his face. He used the 2001 Marathon as an example which was simply stupid since that race was two months beyond the attacks on 9-11. Think about how idiotic it would have looked to run that race looking at things today.

The story - rather irresponsibly in my view - says only that "reports circulated" about the egging of volunteers and equipment, which is far from a confirmation that such a thing actually happened. However, I have no doubt that there would have been active protests, and perhaps even disruptions, of the race had it gone on. Such was the tide of anger here in the hard-hit outer boroughs over what was seen as a typically high-handed Manahattan-centric decision to hold the race despite the ongoing human disaster unfolding nearby.

Exactly.

[j-a-m]

But yeah....continue to propose your own uninformed deadlines on the situation.

At least the Governor of NY seems to agree with me. Andrew Cuomo said about the power companies "that their timeliness in getting power back to their customers would be a reflection of how well they prepared for the storm and how seriously they took their responsibility". Seems to me that's pretty much what I said in my previous posts.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cuomo-ny- ... 27049.html

[Dutra5]

But yeah....continue to propose your own uninformed deadlines on the situation.

At least the Governor of NY seems to agree with me. Andrew Cuomo said about the power companies "that their timeliness in getting power back to their customers would be a reflection of how well they prepared for the storm and how seriously they took their responsibility". Seems to me that's pretty much what I said in my previous posts.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cuomo-ny- ... 27049.html

The good governor didn't put a timeline on it thus didn't agree with you at all.

Again....no clue.

[26mi235]

As another who lives in an area prone to hurricanes, I will back jazzy's comments that you really have no clue as to the scope involved in repaired the damage under these circumstances. In addition to the available local equipment, power trucks from many parts of the country were mobilized into the area....which for those unaware is normal course of business....yet the area involved is so wide ranging that repairing the damage above and below ground is a monumental task.

But yeah....continue to propose your own uninformed deadlines on the situation.

As someone with experience in this industry (having talked with HQ guys who were recruited to go out to a territory several states away a couple of times, (Ivan and Katrina if I recall the conversations correctly). ANd they were there for months, not days.

What makes this situation and the Katrina/Ivan situations so difficult is the size of the area that is devastated. Despite that fact that a large number of crews came in, there are not that many crews per utility service territory because there so many. This ranges from snow-felled trees and line in West Virginia to tidal surge problems in NY and NJ to all the wind damage that felled a huge number of trees or large limbs (we are talking about numbers like a million probably). In many areas getting power to do things is a problem and emergency crews are split between triage and cleanup at first.

Do you know what happens if you re-energize a line prematurely? It is hard to even know if you have fixed everything, as you cannot just go test little bits.

Also standing water 50 feet deep is not a particularly good way to treat a subway station and the lines between stations. How many of those lines are soft in a way that could derail a train after a couple or 20 or 200 trips. Do you want to ride on them before they are fully re-constructed?

[j-a-m]

The good governor didn't put a timeline on it thus didn't agree with you at all.

Actually, he seems even more angry about power companies than I am. "The progress is unacceptable," Cuomo said. "To say that I am angry ... would be the understatement of the decade." And he said that a bit more than a week after the storm, which resembles my sentiment that a "timeline" of weeks instead of days is not acceptable.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/NY-G ... 010338.php

[aaronk]

I have no clue what you just said, but I do know it's NOT plausible that victims traveled from shelters or their destroyed homes just to pelt race volunteers(keeping in mind you said the reported pelting make you less sympathetic to the victims)

Ah, now comes predictable dissembling and obfuscation. The bottom line is that you don't know who alledgedly pelted race volunteers with eggs, so why did you try to come up with some far-fetched theory about outsiders who weren't storm victims doing it?

Oh, so you ARE saying that people would leave shelters, and from salvaging what they can from their destroyed homes, to seek out marathon volunteers for egg pelting.

Okie doke...

Amazing....
and sad.

Just 36-38 hours after the NYC Marathon would have concluded....
and instead of talking about the fast times run...
the major breakthrough by X, Y, or Z athlete...
the records broken...or not broken...


Here we are arguing about whether those who pelted race volunteers with eggs....
had to pack an overnight bag to do so....
or were able to grab a NYC taxicab to get to their "target"!!

S-A-D.

[Dutra5]

The good governor didn't put a timeline on it thus didn't agree with you at all.

Actually, he seems even more angry about power companies than I am. "The progress is unacceptable," Cuomo said. "To say that I am angry ... would be the understatement of the decade." And he said that a bit more than a week after the storm, which resembles my sentiment that a "timeline" of weeks instead of days is not acceptable.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/NY-G ... 010338.php

If that is the case, then you and the Governor can join forces as to being clueless. He has a political legacy to protect. If he decertifies a utility for what he feels is taking too long to repair he most likey doesn't know much about, who's he getting to turn the switches on and off on a daily basis.

[jazzcyclist]

Actually, he seems even more angry about power companies than I am. "The progress is unacceptable," Cuomo said. "To say that I am angry ... would be the understatement of the decade." And he said that a bit more than a week after the storm, which resembles my sentiment that a "timeline" of weeks instead of days is not acceptable.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/NY-G ... 010338.php

If that is the case, then you and the Governor can join forces as to being clueless. He has a political legacy to protect. If he decertifies a utility for what he feels is taking too long to repair he most likey doesn't know much about, who's he getting to turn the switches on and off on a daily basis.

I don't know what type of communication Cuomo has with the power company officials up there, but evidentally it's not very good if he thinks they're dragging their feet on this thing. On the day before Katrina hit New Orleans, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin and the public service commissioner held a joint TV press conference with an Entergy official, and the Entergy official said in the press conference with the governor, mayor and commissioner watching that it would be a minumum of one month before power was restored to New orleans after it was inevitably lost the next day.

[guru]

Hilarious development

http://news.runnersworld.com/2012/11/08 ... on-medals/

Arent finisher medals supposed to be for those who, you know, finish the marathon?


I'm frankly stunned USATF didnt go with Wittenberg for CEO. Seems a match made in heaven...

[az2004]

nov 18 is philly marathon and 3k nyentrants will be added to current race

flst easy course similar to philly half narathon

i'm waitinf for the really big earthquake to devastate california , BIG ONE, to see whar happens to them, not the 1906 sf one, but a state wide catasropne

people are not understanfing how big sandy was, eventually the one in 200 years hits, or a metror hits, and everything gets wiped out

i know people without power for the 2 weeks now, and life is not pleasant for them aat all

[gh]

...
i'm waitinf for the really big earthquake to devastate california , BIG ONE, to see whar happens to them, not the 1906 sf one, but a state wide catasropne....

And this moment of pure hate is brought to you by.... ????

[Dutra5]

i'm waitinf for the really big earthquake to devastate california , BIG ONE, to see whar happens to them, not the 1906 sf one, but a state wide catasropne

people are not understanfing how big sandy was, eventually the one in 200 years hits, or a metror hits, and everything gets wiped out

i know people without power for the 2 weeks now, and life is not pleasant for them aat all

So we have a whole bunch of people in a state of hurt so we'll wish it on even more people.

Not a whole lotta logic there.

[az2004]

the philly marathon usually starts witht he rocky theme, but today sinatra;s ny ny was the theme for the start

gh, frame of reference, the big west coast eartquake is the sort of devastation sandy brought

[Dutra5]

gh, frame of reference, the big west coast eartquake is the sort of devastation sandy brought

I don't think gh needed the frame of reference. The question is why anyone would be "waiting" for it.

[ExCoastRanger]

For the vast majority of runners, it will be sad to not have the race. But, for the elite men & women, the impact is greater....

You have it backwards.
The elites did not have to pay hundreds of dollars to enter the race, more to rent their own hotel rooms, more to reach NYC. They did not have to take time off work for a long weekend. They likely did not train for the better part of a year with this one event as their singular focus. And they probably already have offers (or agents seeking offers) for all-expenses-paid trips to other races in the coming weeks.
For the elites this is an inconvenience at the worst.
The vast majority of runners are actually really screwed and it will impact them in very real ways.

Sorry to bump this, but it's bugged me for weeks.
It's not usually my way to build a case by tearing down others -- you know, unless they piss me off or something -- but I did that here minimizing the impact of the NYCM cancellation on the elites. It was entirely possible to argue for the impact on the average runner while recognizing the obvious implications for the elites.

Anybody who races gets it. Moving back the date of an A race on a day's or even a week's notice can really blow a peak. Results for many of those forced to find a NYC Marathon alternative, below performance goals, prove it.
(How about those poor souls who picked Cal International Marathon in Sacramento and got hammered with a West Coast gale of their own?)

I feel bad for the approach I took to make my point. And I feel bad for the elites. Of course it was more than an "incovenience" for them and I knew it when I wrote it and I'm sorry I put it that way.

[guru]

NYRR does right thing(I'm sure advised by their law dudes), offering full refunds

http://www.ingnycmarathon.org/resolution.htm