The 20' (and beyond) PV


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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby kuha » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:06 am



Wow was he good.
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby Cooter Brown » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:46 am

Pennel is the most underrated vaulter, IMO.

He set his first WR at 5.13m (16-10ish) and his last at 5.44m (17-10 1/4). That's Bubkaesque in the difference between 1st and last WRs.


EDIT...just reading up on it and he had unratified WR's of 4.95, 4.98, 5.05, and 5.10.
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby dukehjsteve » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:08 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:Pennel is the most underrated vaulter, IMO.

He set his first WR at 5.13m (16-10ish) and his last at 5.44m (17-10 1/4). That's Bubkaesque in the difference between 1st and last WRs.


EDIT...just reading up on it and he had unratified WR's of 4.95, 4.98, 5.05, and 5.10.


I well remember 1963's Florida Relays as I was out on the field for the ( of course) HJ which was being contested simultaneously with the PV, starring, you guessed it, John Pennel, He won easily and took 3 good efforts at a WR of about 4.90/16'1". I got right up close to him on the runway and took a good picture. Neat looking yellow NE Louisiana jersey.
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby kuha » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:46 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:He set his first WR at 5.13m (16-10ish) and his last at 5.44m (17-10 1/4). That's Bubkaesque in the difference between 1st and last WRs.


One foot: amazingly impressive
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby gh » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:23 pm

Not to disaparage a fine athlete whose competitive record to speak for itself, but "Bubkaesque"?!

Given that the rest of the world was rising right with him the whole time, seems pretty clear to me that the combination of people learning how to vault with a different style combined with rapid improvements in pole design probably contributed to nearly all the rise.
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby Dave » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:53 pm

gh wrote:Not to disaparage a fine athlete whose competitive record to speak for itself, but "Bubkaesque"?!

Given that the rest of the world was rising right with him the whole time, seems pretty clear to me that the combination of people learning how to vault with a different style combined with rapid improvements in pole design probably contributed to nearly all the rise.


Agreed. Not only was the rest of the world improving with him as they all learned to use the new technology, the record continued to be raised regularly after he retired.

Now, we are almost 20 years after Bubka retired and he still owns all jumps over 6.06 and a huge percentage of the jumps over 6.01.
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:46 pm

Maybe you could get Ron Morris to comment on this. He was a very early fiberglass star (second to 16 and silver at Rome?). I am partial because he was my coach for a track and field class at Cal State LA and sparked my interest in the sport. I think he has been involved with equipment over the last couple of decades and probably has insight that few can match. Of course, he is in his mid-70s now, so I do not know how active he is...
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby polevaultpower » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:45 pm

26mi235 wrote: Of course, he is in his mid-70s now, so I do not know how active he is...


I see him at least once a year at the Pole Vault Summit and he's fantastic every time I see him. Hopefully he has many years of good health ahead of him!
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby Per Andersen » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:08 pm

Marlow wrote:What I want to know, and have never read anything about, is how and who figured out how to properly bend the pole and use its rebound to go higher. The technique is NOT the same between straight-vaulting and fb-vaulting. I had to completely relearn how to vault when I started masters vaulting with fiberglass. When you look back at Pennel, he had already discovered and mastered the technique necessary to utilize the pole's bend.
Here he is in 1963


Maybe Pennel is the answer.
I think Dave Tork bent the pole more than Uelses. Tork had a good bend but not close to Pennel.
Not sure about Pentti Nikula ( the WR holder after Tork in 1962).
Both Uelses and Tork used the "spread hands grip" at take-off, as opposed to the "hands together grip" used by the metal/steel vaulters.
Would be interesting to know how George Davies and Ron Morris gripped the pole at take-off.
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby Dave » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:34 pm

Marlow wrote:
Cooter Brown wrote:
Dave wrote:I'd be curious to know the details of the first fiberglass poles. It would be interesting to know what made the guy who created the first one think it would be a good idea.

Probably, the impetus was a search for lighter materials. Not the first, but an early pole maker was Shakespeare who was and is known for fishing poles and saw another market for their fiberglass. Early on, fiberglass electrical conduit was sometimes used also, specifically for a homemade solution for vaulting poles. Odds are strong that the first fiberglass poles put on the market were not purpose built.

What I want to know, and have never read anything about, is how and who figured out how to properly bend the pole and use its rebound to go higher. The technique is NOT the same between straight-vaulting and fb-vaulting. I had to completely relearn how to vault when I started masters vaulting with fiberglass. When you look back at Pennel, he had already discovered and mastered the technique necessary to utilize the pole's bend.
Here he is in 1963

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675 ... ps-17-feet


This is well off topic, but ....

I looked at three different recordings on that site: Pennel, Uselses, and Richards.

Pennel looks a lot like a modern vaulter. And if that jump was really at 17', he should have gotten 17'6 that day.

Uselses clearing 16' looked a lot more like a straight pole vaulter than a modern vaulter. I didn't look really carefully, but it didn't look like he had a lot of pushoff. His biggest gain was from a higher handhold rather than any sort of released energy from the pole pushing him up. He also landed in a sawdust pit. That looked pretty frightening.

Finally, Richards was a classic straight pole vaulter and again, that sawdust looked pretty scary.
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby Marlow » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:15 pm

Dave wrote:Uselses clearing 16' looked a lot more like a straight pole vaulter than a modern vaulter. I didn't look really carefully, but it didn't look like he had a lot of pushoff. His biggest gain was from a higher handhold rather than any sort of released energy from the pole pushing him up.

Indeed. The most arresting visual aspect of a fb vault vs. a stiff pole is the arc the body describes. In a straight vault the body swings up and then 'falls' over the bar with little 'trajectory'. In a fb vault there is a much more pronounced arc characterized by the angle of the push-off as the body is still ascending.

Anyone remember this dude?

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corb ... 9b8b62bfc4

My jaw dropped when I saw him vault; he looked like he was being THOWN over the bar when he vaulted; he was just along for the ride. Never seen anything like it till Bubka started doing it too.
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby Dave » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:06 pm

Marlow wrote:
Dave wrote:Uselses clearing 16' looked a lot more like a straight pole vaulter than a modern vaulter. I didn't look really carefully, but it didn't look like he had a lot of pushoff. His biggest gain was from a higher handhold rather than any sort of released energy from the pole pushing him up.

Indeed. The most arresting visual aspect of a fb vault vs. a stiff pole is the arc the body describes. In a straight vault the body swings up and then 'falls' over the bar with little 'trajectory'. In a fb vault there is a much more pronounced arc characterized by the angle of the push-off as the body is still ascending.

Anyone remember this dude?

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corb ... 9b8b62bfc4

My jaw dropped when I saw him vault; he looked like he was being THOWN over the bar when he vaulted; he was just along for the ride. Never seen anything like it till Bubka started doing it too.


Who is it?
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby El Toro » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:41 pm

Dave wrote: And if that jump was really at 17', he should have gotten 17'6 that day.


I doubt it was 17' as the clip is described clearly as:
Pennel pole vaults for the benefit of newsreel cameramen, shortly after setting the new record.


Sounds like a safe height to me.
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby kuha » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:21 pm

I missed that the first time around--and did think he was blasting way over 17 feet.
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Re: The 20' (and beyond) PV

Postby Per Andersen » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:05 pm

Dave wrote:
My jaw dropped when I saw him vault; he looked like he was being THOWN over the bar when he vaulted; he was just along for the ride. Never seen anything like it till Bubka started doing it too.


Who is it?[/quote]
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