Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?


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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby preston » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:34 am

As usual, 26, you have nothing to add so you're just being a pain and trying to ruin the thread. I'm moving on. I suggest you do the same.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/sport ... .html?_r=0
To preserve Cain’s N.C.A.A. eligibility, the Cains agreed to pay Salazar as well as all of the costs for Mary’s travel and equipment. Those may be significant because Cain, no longer a member of her high school team, will run as an independent in races around the nation.

Pay Salazar and all costs of travel and equipment just to retain NCAA eligibility? Is this a wink with Nike gear thrown in or is this real? Personally, I think she could do better turning pro - if she's good enough. All of her gear, travel and coaching would be paid for and with Salazar as her coach, Nike would pay for all of her schooling. She's already giving up running with the high school kids to get better, she should strongly consider giving up college running when the time comes.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby TN1965 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:47 pm

aaronk wrote: My greatest worry with the Salazar-Cain hook-up is that he'll have her train and train, work on her bio-mechanics (I agree with Marlow about whether he SHOULD try to fix it!!)....but advise/tell her to NOT enter races now, or at least not too many of them, and concentrate on the training/"improving" her form.


http://news.runnersworld.com/2012/10/20 ... mary-cain/

...Salazar telephoned Cain’s coaches in Bronxville, a suburb of New York City, to report what he’d seen and suggest improvements. He reported the same to Mary’s father, Charlie Cain, an anesthesiologist with little background in the sport. “We were honored by Alberto’s call,” says Cain. “It also came at a crucial juncture in Mary’s running career. For some time we’d been concerned that she was overracing, that after her big summer in 2012, the standard three-season high school running calendar was wearing her down.”...
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby Marlow » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:53 pm

preston wrote:comments like that really make me question your effectiveness as a coach.

Well, dear, as you recall, I said biomechs DO apply to all the other events. Since I don't coach distance runners, I guess you should call off the dogs?
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby decafan » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:11 pm

How silly to use Alberto's running form as proof that his approach is flawed. How insulting to him to assume he hasn't learned anything about coaching since his days as an athlete. Did you happen to notice Galen Rupp's form at the Olympics? pretty efficient if you ask me.

As far as Aaronk getting an apology? Sure. Aaronk, I am so very sorry you are obsessed with a 16 year old girl. I wish you had a shred of credibility by also being obsessed with other Jr athletes in other events who show a similar level of international potential as Ms. Cain (Tyreek Hill, Aldrich Bailey, Tanner Sork, Eric Futch, Shawn Barber, Braheme Days, Sam Mattis, Sean Keller, Shayla Sanders, Cayla Hatton, Gabrielle Williams, Shelbi Vaughan, Haley Crouser, or Kendell Williams). But you don't. Because you are obsessed with her. It is creepy. As is your obsession with using two exclamation points or question marks at the end of most of your sentences. The rule in one or three. The other rule is don't use exclamation points. Ever.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:17 pm

To Decafan:
I questioned whether to reply at all to YOUR continued OBSESSION with MY supposed "obsession" with "16 year old girl" Mary Cain.
I wasn't going to, but I feel you need a bit more understanding of where I come from!

If forced to choose among all the events of T&F, I'd go with all the events between 800 and the marathon.
Do I follow, and love, ALL of T&F? YES! But the above are my "obsessions".

Also, in ANY sport I've followed, marks and records and numbers have been more exciting for me than win-loss, medals, or which team won. Another lifetime "obsession"

Re: Mary Cain.
Those other names you listed...with the possible exception of Cayla Hatton...do NOT fit the parameters of my "obsessions".
But am I excited by their efforts this past year? YES!
In fact, do you recall I started a thread this past summer about who would win the HS AOY for females??
The USA had a banner year in the girl's HS category. You forgot to list Ajee Wilson and Brianna Nerud. I can't wait until the next issue of T&FN comes out, to see who won, and in what order all the great gals finished in the AOY voting! (Probably Wilson or Vaughan #1, though I think Cain deserves that spot!!)
But how many of the athletes you listed SHATTERED the HSR by as much as Cain did in the 1500?
Hasay's mark was a damn good one. For Mary to break it by 3.49 secs was damn impressive!!

Given my favoring the 800-mar distances, I'm just not AS excited by the exploits of Vaughan, H Crouser, S Barber et al.
But remember it was ME who first (??) said that Kendell Williams had the potential to get 6000 in the Hept in 2013!! I hope she does!
Aldrich Bailey?? Hasn't broken any records yet, and he was a 12th grader, not a 10th grader, a la Cain. (Ditto with Hatton, who now is a frosh at Stanford!)

If you're saying (Due apologies if you're NOT!!) my "obsession" with Cain is close to being pedophilic or stalkerish, then you're WRONG!!

If ANY female athlete in her teens turned me on IN ANY WAY last year, it was Michelle Jenneke, who did that sexy pre-race dance that went viral on YouTube!!
(Jenneke was 18, I believe, not 16, at the time!!)
Mary?? She's a charming, expressive, VERY confident young lady with TONS of athletic talent and potential!!
And she fits my dual "obsessions"......being a distance runner and ALSO being obsessed with setting records or running fast times. (Read/watch her interviews!!)

But you are TOTALLY off base in implying my "obsessions" are anything more than what I just said.

As for the "!!" and "??", that's just a lifetime habit, evolved through 100's of LONG (10-50 pages, handwritten, with BIC pen on lined notebook paper, college ruled) letters written during my 68 years old life!!
It's a habit I'm unlikely to break...even though I've been a writer since 1965!!
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby TN1965 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:39 pm

decafan wrote:How silly to use Alberto's running form as proof that his approach is flawed. How insulting to him to assume he hasn't learned anything about coaching since his days as an athlete. Did you happen to notice Galen Rupp's form at the Olympics? pretty efficient if you ask me.


Here is a quote from his book. ("14 minutes")

"How much more could I have accomplished, for instance, if a coach had cleaned up my notoriously ungainly running form and maximized my strength, agility and coordination?" (p.218)
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:50 pm

TN1965 wrote:
decafan wrote:How silly to use Alberto's running form as proof that his approach is flawed. How insulting to him to assume he hasn't learned anything about coaching since his days as an athlete. Did you happen to notice Galen Rupp's form at the Olympics? pretty efficient if you ask me.


Here is a quote from his book. ("14 minutes")

"How much more could I have accomplished, for instance, if a coach had cleaned up my notoriously ungainly running form and maximized my strength, agility and coordination?" (p.218)


Wow!
Didn't even know he'd written a book, let alone its title!!
If it's a memoir of his career, I'll look it up on Amazon, and buy it!
(Not interested in training manuals!)
But why that title?? What significance does "14 minutes" have for him??
Breaking 14 for 5K?

I think his most memorable, and maybe his best, race was that track 10K he ran against Henry Rono in 1982 at Hayward Field!
I think he beat Rono (or vice versa??) by one-tenth of a second, something like 27:29.90 to 27:30.0.
And it was run in pouring rain on an already flooded track.
One of T&F's most iconic photos is of Salazar and Rono at the STARTING line of that race, ALREADY drenched by the rain!!

Anyway, thanks for the heads up on his book!!

Added later:

Jeez!
I'd forgotten about his near-death experience!!
THAT is what the title is about!!
Looked it up on Amazon just now...even scanned the first few pages of it....and will definitely be buying it soon!!
Looks like a VERY interesting book!!
The copyright date is 2012, but before you mentioned it, I'd NOT heard of it!!
Thanks again!!
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:53 am

Someone mentioned (on the NYC Marathon and Weather thread) seeing a Tweet saying that the NYRR has cancelled Saturday's 5K race.
This is as yet unconfirmed.

However, if true, there goes Mary Cain's first race under the tutelage of Alberto Salazar!!

So, what, if any, will be her substitute race??

added a few minutes later:

Apparently, Mary Wittenburg has denied this, and the race is still on!!

YAYYYYY!!!! :D
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby 18.99s » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:11 pm

aaronk wrote:If ANY female athlete in her teens turned me on IN ANY WAY last year, it was Michelle Jenneke, who did that sexy pre-race dance that went viral on YouTube!!
(Jenneke was 18, I believe, not 16, at the time!!)


She was actually 19. Yes, I researched her age on the Web in order to know how much I was allowed to appreciate her performance.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:29 pm

aaronk wrote:But why that title?? What significance does "14 minutes" have for him??
Breaking 14 for 5K?


The amount of time that he thinks he was 'dead'.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby PDJ551 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:56 am

To respond to the school that urges Salazar "To leave well enough alone" takes me back to the days just before the 1984 Olympics. I was attending a summer track camp in which Arthur Lydiard was the guest lecturer. Every morning, after we ran a shake up run with him, he would explain another feature of his program. In the afternoon he would teach us his drills and critique our running form. In the evening we would watch various video tapes on running. At that time Salazar was one of the best in the world and we had high hopes for him in the upcoming Games. Lydiard shocked us by stating that Salazar had to many biomechanical flaws which not only would hinder his performances but injuries would soon most likely occur. No one said anything in response but most of us wouldn't accept that assessment. But Lydiard was proved to be correct.

Not long ago Lydiard explained how his poor form sabotaged his career. As a result he pays much attention to form. Most certainly there have been runners who have done very well with poor form, but I tend to agree with Lydiard and Salazar on the importance of proper form.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:20 pm

The NYC Marathon thread says the 5K is cancelled!

Sooooo.....does Al have a replacement race for her??
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby Dutra5 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:34 pm

aaronk wrote:The NYC Marathon thread says the 5K is cancelled!

Sooooo.....does Al have a replacement race for her??


Bizarre. Just bizarre.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:46 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:The NYC Marathon thread says the 5K is cancelled!

Sooooo.....does Al have a replacement race for her??


Bizarre. Just bizarre.


What's "bizarre"??
That Wittenburg cancelled the race?
Or that I'm asking whether Salazar has another race Mary can compete in....either this weekend, or very soon (next weekend??)??

This NYC race was to include an elite field, including Uhl and Simpson, among several other World Class Americans.
It would have been a golden opportunity for Mary to strut her stuff against Olympians!!

I don't think it's bizarre to question whether she'll have another race to go to!!
Not to mention Simpson, Uhl and company!!)
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby Blues » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:13 pm

Regarding biomechanics, in Mary's case she seems to have a bone structure that results in narrower shoulders than most other athletes.. I wonder if at least some of her allegedly poor upper body biomechanics might actually be more efficient for her anatomy than what's commonly accepted as correct biomechanics, since differing physiques and bone structures can affect types and ranges of motion.. Regardless, it'll be interesting to see how her form changes in the future.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:56 am

aaronk wrote:
What's "bizarre"??
That Wittenburg cancelled the race?
Or that I'm asking whether Salazar has another race Mary can compete in....either this weekend, or very soon (next weekend??)??


The infatuation with a HSer
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:22 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
What's "bizarre"??
That Wittenburg cancelled the race?
Or that I'm asking whether Salazar has another race Mary can compete in....either this weekend, or very soon (next weekend??)??


The infatuation with a HSer


Here we go again!
Let's see, in the course of this "discussion" on this thread, I've been called...
"obsessed"
"creepy"
"bizarre"
"infatuated".
What's next?? (I won't even guess!!) :x

But let's look at some salient FACTS...which name-callers don't usually do!!

1. This thread now has close to 100 comments, and has been viewed well over 2000 times!!
I guess others are "interested" (Won't use the above terms!!) in Mary too!!

2. Mary holds the frosh and soph HSR's in the 1500, plus 1 or 3 other class records. She not only just broke Hasay's mark (Another HS'er many were "obsessed" with in her HS days!!), she SMASHED it into another galaxy!!

3. Alberto Salazar, probably THE most beloved and respected distance coach extant today, met her for 5 seconds, then watched a 5 minute YouTube video, and called her to ask if he could be her coach!! Tell me, what name would you apply to HIM??

4. While she only came in 2nd in the 2012 AOY voting (Not surprised in such a LOADED girls field!!), in ANY other year, she'd be a CLEAR # 1!!

5. Salazar had placed her in a road 5K (now cancelled) LOADED with American Olympians and record-setters!! This for "a 16 year old girl".....or "a HS'er". She's also been dubbed "the next Mary Decker"!! And it wasn't ME who so dubbed her!!

I thought name calling was BANNED from this forum!! Guess not!!
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:47 am

aaronk wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
What's "bizarre"??
That Wittenburg cancelled the race?
Or that I'm asking whether Salazar has another race Mary can compete in....either this weekend, or very soon (next weekend??)??


The infatuation with a HSer


Here we go again!
Let's see, in the course of this "discussion" on this thread, I've been called...
"obsessed"
"creepy"
"bizarre"
"infatuated".
What's next?? (I won't even guess!!) :x



Exactly
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:17 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
What's "bizarre"??
That Wittenburg cancelled the race?
Or that I'm asking whether Salazar has another race Mary can compete in....either this weekend, or very soon (next weekend??)??


The infatuation with a HSer


Here we go again!
Let's see, in the course of this "discussion" on this thread, I've been called...
"obsessed"
"creepy"
"bizarre"
"infatuated".
What's next?? (I won't even guess!!) :x



Exactly


Okay, that's it!!
I've taken enough CRAP from "Dutra5"!!

GH.....please BAN "Dutra5" from T&FN Message Board.....for NAME CALLING above and beyond!!

Or at least tell me if there's any way I can DELETE his/her posts from my computer!!
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby polevaultpower » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:40 pm

aaronk wrote:Okay, that's it!!
I've taken enough CRAP from "Dutra5"!!

GH.....please BAN "Dutra5" from T&FN Message Board.....for NAME CALLING above and beyond!!

Or at least tell me if there's any way I can DELETE his/her posts from my computer!!


While I do not support name calling, I think you need to grow a thicker skin...
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby decafan » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:32 pm

aaronk wrote:

Okay, that's it!!
I've taken enough CRAP from "Dutra5"!!

GH.....please BAN "Dutra5" from T&FN Message Board.....for NAME CALLING above and beyond!!

Or at least tell me if there's any way I can DELETE his/her posts from my computer!!


I'm not sure if you have technically been called any names. I believe those words are all adjectives describing you or your posts. "You are a creep" is not the same thing as, "what you said was pretty creepy" or "you are creepy". It also begs the question of just how accurate those words really are. I mean, if you say something that someone honestly perceives as being "creepy", what is wrong with them using that word in their comments?
Just out of curiosity, can a message board poster get banned for appearing to be:
"obsessed"
"creepy"
"bizarre" or
"infatuated" with underage stars? Seems like a fair question.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:53 am

decafan wrote:
aaronk wrote:

Okay, that's it!!
I've taken enough CRAP from "Dutra5"!!

GH.....please BAN "Dutra5" from T&FN Message Board.....for NAME CALLING above and beyond!!

Or at least tell me if there's any way I can DELETE his/her posts from my computer!!


I'm not sure if you have technically been called any names. I believe those words are all adjectives describing you or your posts. "You are a creep" is not the same thing as, "what you said was pretty creepy" or "you are creepy". It also begs the question of just how accurate those words really are. I mean, if you say something that someone honestly perceives as being "creepy", what is wrong with them using that word in their comments?
Just out of curiosity, can a message board poster get banned for appearing to be:
"obsessed"
"creepy"
"bizarre" or
"infatuated" with underage stars? Seems like a fair question.


You know what??
All of you who think I'm obsessed with "underage stars"....

GO TO HELL!!

I'm outta here!!

Funny, though, because I have even MORE "obsession" with......

71 year old Bob Dylan
66 year old Gerry Lindgren
DEAD poet Allen Ginsberg
88 year old President Jimmy Carter
48 year old Governor Sarah Palin
82 year old Clint Eastwood
and a few others past voting age!!

Just saying!!
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby tandfman » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:56 am

Out of morbid fascination, I just scrolled down this thread from top to bottom to try to figure out what this pissing match was all about.

My conclusions:
aaronk is unusually enthusiastic about Mary Cain, and his posts evidence that enthusiasm. Is the enthusiasm excessive? Unlike Dutra5 and perhaps others, I hesitate to criticize a fellow poster for being excited about a particular athlete. The fact that the athlete is a 16-year old girl really shouldn't matter unless there's some sexual innuendo in his posts, which I didn't find at all.

I, too, made a favorable comment about Ms. Cain early in the thread. I was a lot less verbose, but I thought I made it clear that I shared others' excitement about her future. I trust that Dutra5 doesn't think that I and other posters who have praised Mary Cain are creepy. So it must be the length and frequency of his posts on this subject that lead Dutra5 to conclude that there's something wrong with aaronk. Somehow prolixity implies lasciviousness. I cannot agree.

That having been said, I think pvp was right in suggesting that a thicker skin would help aaronk.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:15 am

tandfman wrote:Out of morbid fascination, I just scrolled down this thread from top to bottom to try to figure out what this pissing match was all about.

My conclusions:
aaronk is unusually enthusiastic about Mary Cain, and his posts evidence that enthusiasm. Is the enthusiasm excessive? Unlike Dutra5 and perhaps others, I hesitate to criticize a fellow poster for being excited about a particular athlete. The fact that the athlete is a 16-year old girl really shouldn't matter unless there's some sexual innuendo in his posts, which I didn't find at all.

I, too, made a favorable comment about Ms. Cain early in the thread. I was a lot less verbose, but I thought I made it clear that I shared others' excitement about her future. I trust that Dutra5 doesn't think that I and other posters who have praised Mary Cain are creepy. So it must be the length and frequency of his posts on this subject that lead Dutra5 to conclude that there's something wrong with aaronk. Somehow prolixity implies lasciviousness. I cannot agree.

That having been said, I think pvp was right in suggesting that a thicker skin would help aaronk.


FINALLY...a SANE and TRUE analysis and reasoning of what I'm truly about vis a vis Ms Cane!!

As noted elsewhere, I am even MORE "enthusiastic" about people, women AND men, in and out of our sport, and I can state emphatically that with NONE of them is there ANY sexual or "lascivious" basis for my enthusiasm!!

(Well, perhaps a TINY bit with the beautiful, though VERY happily married, Sarah Palin, age 48!! :oops: )

Anyway, THANK YOU, tandfman, for being a man of common sense with a BRAIN!!!

BTW, it might interest you to know that I am EQUALLY enthusiastic about the near-and far-future prospects of college frosh Brianna Nerud and Cayla Hatton!!

I hope for a 9:30 SC from Nerud in 2013...and for times of 15:20-15:30 and around 31:40-32:00 for Hatton in the 5K-10K....also in 2013!!
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby KevinM » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:45 am

aaronk, it also doesn't help your cause that, whether intended or not, your posting style can sometimes appear to be the message board equivalent of cutting letters out of magazines and assembling them into new words.

The impact ofALL CAPS and multiple ?s and !s (while relentlessly reiterating your questions and thoughts) is of unusual enthusiasm. If what you think is an innocent message is being lost, maybe take a look at your means of communication?
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby decafan » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:21 am

aaronk wrote:

You know what??
All of you who think I'm obsessed with "underage stars"....

GO TO HELL!!

I'm outta here!!

Funny, though, because I have even MORE "obsession" with......

71 year old Bob Dylan
66 year old Gerry Lindgren
DEAD poet Allen Ginsberg
88 year old President Jimmy Carter
48 year old Governor Sarah Palin
82 year old Clint Eastwood
and a few others past voting age!!

Just saying!!


"The [aaronk] doth protest too much, methinks."

"It puts the lotion on the skin..." KIDDING! Please don't ban me. ;-)
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:49 am

tandfman wrote:
I, too, made a favorable comment about Ms. Cain early in the thread. I was a lot less verbose, but I thought I made it clear that I shared others' excitement about her future. I trust that Dutra5 doesn't think that I and other posters who have praised Mary Cain are creepy. So it must be the length and frequency of his posts on this subject that lead Dutra5 to conclude that there's something wrong with aaronk. Somehow prolixity implies lasciviousness. I cannot agree.


I have an interest in the young lady's abilities as well. She appears, at this point, to be quite the talent. Is it a point of interest that Salazar will be coaching her? Absolutely.

Again...a point of interest. Let's hope Ms. Cain continues to improve and, perhaps most importantly enjoys her high school experience.

As to worrying about her every move or even next move or how a race which has been wiped out by a natural disaster would be dealt with by someone other than a member of her family ... or perhaps other high schoolers with little life perspective.....with anything other than an offhanded question....yeah....that's bizarre to me.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:54 am

Dutra5 wrote:
tandfman wrote:
I, too, made a favorable comment about Ms. Cain early in the thread. I was a lot less verbose, but I thought I made it clear that I shared others' excitement about her future. I trust that Dutra5 doesn't think that I and other posters who have praised Mary Cain are creepy. So it must be the length and frequency of his posts on this subject that lead Dutra5 to conclude that there's something wrong with aaronk. Somehow prolixity implies lasciviousness. I cannot agree.


I have an interest in the young lady's abilities as well. She appears, at this point, to be quite the talent. Is it a point of interest that Salazar will be coaching her? Absolutely.

Again...a point of interest. Let's hope Ms. Cain continues to improve and, perhaps most importantly enjoys her high school experience.

As to worrying about her every move or even next move or how a race which has been wiped out by a natural disaster would be dealt with by someone other than a member of her family ... or perhaps other high schoolers with little life perspective.....with anything other than an offhanded question....yeah....that's bizarre to me.


Forgetting Mary for the moment, it would be interesting to hear Salazar's perspective on the cancellation of the NYC marathon....him being a 2-time winner and one-time record holder on the course.

As for cancellation of the 5K, it affected many more than Ms Cain....Simpson, Uhl, and several other American elites were entered in that race too.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby bushop » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:46 am

aaronk wrote:The NYC Marathon thread says the 5K is cancelled!
Sooooo.....does Al have a replacement race for her??

Anyone know...
1.) ... if there was another race the top runner migrated too?
2.) ... if appearance money was paid out in-spite of the cancellation?

It does seem like M Cain needs a quality race(s) to run on occasion. Where/ when is the next strong 5k?
How important is it for young distance runners to compete on cross country courses?
If important, what are the strong open XC races?
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby Blues » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:15 pm

tandfman wrote:Out of morbid fascination, I just scrolled down this thread from top to bottom to try to figure out what this pissing match was all about.

My conclusions:
aaronk is unusually enthusiastic about Mary Cain, and his posts evidence that enthusiasm. Is the enthusiasm excessive? Unlike Dutra5 and perhaps others, I hesitate to criticize a fellow poster for being excited about a particular athlete. The fact that the athlete is a 16-year old girl really shouldn't matter unless there's some sexual innuendo in his posts, which I didn't find at all.

I, too, made a favorable comment about Ms. Cain early in the thread. I was a lot less verbose, but I thought I made it clear that I shared others' excitement about her future. I trust that Dutra5 doesn't think that I and other posters who have praised Mary Cain are creepy. So it must be the length and frequency of his posts on this subject that lead Dutra5 to conclude that there's something wrong with aaronk. Somehow prolixity implies lasciviousness. I cannot agree.

That having been said, I think pvp was right in suggesting that a thicker skin would help aaronk.


This is pretty much the way I viewed aaronk's posts too. I've seen nothing in what he wrote to imply that he's anything more than an extremely enthusiastic fan who's eagerly looking forward to Mary Cain's future athletic accomplishments.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby Marlow » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:32 pm

Blues wrote: This is pretty much the way I viewed aaronk's posts too. I've seen nothing in what he wrote to imply that he's anything more than an extremely enthusiastic fan who's eagerly looking forward to Mary Cain's future athletic accomplishments.

I stand by my initial (post #3) assessment:
Marlow wrote:aaron, I truly admire your enthusiasm, but don't post immediately after three cups of espresso!
:D
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:11 pm

bushop wrote:
aaronk wrote:The NYC Marathon thread says the 5K is cancelled!
Sooooo.....does Al have a replacement race for her??

Anyone know...
1.) ... if there was another race the top runner migrated too?
2.) ... if appearance money was paid out in-spite of the cancellation?

It does seem like M Cain needs a quality race(s) to run on occasion. Where/ when is the next strong 5k?
How important is it for young distance runners to compete on cross country courses?
If important, what are the strong open XC races?


First, a HUGE Thank You to everyone who has AGAIN made me feel accepted in this motley clan of tafnuts!! :D
Okay, so maybe you'd prefer I drop a few thousand of THESE buggers (!!!!!) from my repertoire!!

Anyway, onward.
About paydays for runners.

Mary's agreement (or contract?) with Salazar is that she'll run "pro" races, but not get paid if she wins or places high enough to get some $$$.
This is to protect her future NCAA career.

But don't you wish it could be otherwise...and not just for Mary, but for ALL collegiate t&f athletes.

Running for professional athletes is a job.
It's work, their career (at least until they retire from athletics).

I mean, even collegiate athletes work to help pay their tuition or books, or just to buy clothes or CD's.
So what's the difference if said athlete gets paid by McDonald's or a local running shoe shop....or wins prize money in road races??

As long as there's NO interference with their running for the TEAM....why should it matter??
If it DID interfere with the quality of them running for their team, then THEY would be responsible to make sure it doesn't happen again.

But I just don't see the difference!!
And changing the rules on professional running and NCAA competition would do so much to make things better for all.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby bushop » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:26 pm

aaronk wrote:Mary's agreement (or contract?) with Salazar is that she'll run "pro" races, but not get paid if she wins or places high enough to get some $$$.

Certainly, but what about the professional runners?
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:41 pm

bushop wrote:
aaronk wrote:Mary's agreement (or contract?) with Salazar is that she'll run "pro" races, but not get paid if she wins or places high enough to get some $$$.

Certainly, but what about the professional runners?


Are you talking specifically about yesterday's cancelled 5K entrants??

I assume...but don't know....their situation will be the same as for the pro elite marathoners who were entered in today's race.

Meaning, they'll try to find another marathon (or 5K for Simpson, Uhl et al) to enter soon.
And hope that the NYRR's come up with some sort of payout for them....at least travel and hotel and per diem, if not actual "prize" money (maybe divided evenly among all the elites, since there wasn't a race!).

Another subject, maybe, but I worry about the race itself, meaning the NYC marathon!!
Will people's grudges and bad feelings linger into next year...making it more difficult for Wittenburg (and the NYRR) to even put on the race??

The black clouds linger!! (And I ain't speaking in metaphors!)
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:33 pm

By the way, there were high school track and field athletes that were in the top five at the Olympic Trials (Vaughan-DT, Gabby Williams-HJ, and not sure about Haley Crouser) and they were not named Cain or Baxter, and one of them was (also) only a sohpomore.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:25 pm

26mi235 wrote:By the way, there were high school track and field athletes that were in the top five at the Olympic Trials (Vaughan-DT, Gabby Williams-HJ, and not sure about Haley Crouser) and they were not named Cain or Baxter, and one of them was (also) only a sohpomore.


I know, I know!
Between all the Cain stuff, I've inserted my opinion on the VERY high quality of the ENTIRE HS girls field this year.
Some of the boys were great too, but the NUMBER of girls who, in any other year, would be a fairly easy #1....or at worst #2......but finished as far down as 8th or 9th....is astonishing!!

2012 was most definitely a year when the girls RULED!!

I can understand 1st and 2nd.
Vaughan broke the mark 4 times, plus her high finish at the Trials.
Won't speak to Cain's credentials now, but she woulda been EASILY #1 in any other year!!
You have Ajee in THIRD???
2nd best ever time, wins the WJ's??
Yet only 3rd!
Haley breaks the JT record, yet is just 4th?
Kendell breaks the Hept mark, and gets just 5th!!
(And she's returning!)
Gabby Williams getting just 9th, despite one of the best HJ's in recent years?
About the only one I disagree with 100% is putting Baird ahead of both Hatton and Nerud.
Hatton ran the 2nd best-ever 5K and 10K's!
Nerud broke the SC record TWICE!!
Sorry, but I would've put Baird in 9th, behind both of them!

Anyway, the quality of those first 9 (Maybe Sanders in 10th also, but not as familiar with what she did as the others!) was SENSATIONAL!!

A banner year for girls HS t&f!!
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:45 pm

Addendum to previous post:

Add Dior Hall (100H), Shamier Little (300-400H), and Torie Owers (SP) to those girls who deserved to be in the Top 10 in ANY other year...yet got crowded out by this year's DEEP field!!
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby aaronk » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:45 am

As one of Mary Cain's most enthusiastic boosters, I should be THRILLED that she has jumped from (I believe) 11th place in the Top 50 Girls Individual CC Rankings....all the way up to SECOND!!!

But even I must ask.....WHY??

I would like nothing more than for her to be ranked Number ONE.......or # 2......but for the life of me, I can't understand why she jumped this week to 2nd place from last week's 11th!!!

Did she race somewhere??
I haven't heard of any!

So what did she DO to deserve this upward movement in her ranking??
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:57 am

Since she doesn't run for her HS, maybe it's a reflection of the upcoming post-season meets that she may enter.
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Re: Where does Little Mary (Cain) go now?

Postby jb » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:21 am

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