A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (Locked down several times a year during the major championships)
POE = EPO, the nickname the cyclists used for it, or Edgar
Wrong answer, Dookie! But a good try. Conor posted a quote (rant) from Gen. Jack Ripper from Dr. Strangelove. Minutes later, after the crazed General offs himself, Mandrake is puzzling over a piece of paper with various permutations of P O E on it (P O E , O P E, Peace On Earth, On Earth Peace, etc) figuring the recall code must be some variation of those three letters.
bambam wrote:Everyone will be asking for their money back, and to keep it he will end up having to fork it over to the lawyers instead. Why I think he will be headed for a new Chapter in his life, so to speak.
I assume you mean Chapter 7.
That wouldn't surprise me at all.
It turns out that Mr. Armstrong has salted away a good amount of money and may be able to fend off bankruptcy in spite of these actual and potential claims against him.
bambam wrote:Everyone will be asking for their money back, and to keep it he will end up having to fork it over to the lawyers instead. Why I think he will be headed for a new Chapter in his life, so to speak.
I assume you mean Chapter 7.
That wouldn't surprise me at all.
It turns out that Mr. Armstrong has salted away a good amount of money and may be able to fend off bankruptcy in spite of these actual and potential claims against him.
I have read other reports that put his net worth at about $25,000,000 or so. Who knows how accurate this information is. He probably will remain rich. But, I think he is still open to lawsuits from the likes of Emma O'Reilly, Betsy Andreu, and Greg Lemond (should they think about going that route) and others he has bullied and vilified in press, for defamation of character, etc. He also may be subject to punitive damages as well from some of these lawsuits, and who knows how much (if they happen) they might be.
from his column this morning, Scott Ostler's "Knucklehead Of The Week"
<<Knucklehead of the week: Lance Armstrong Reportedly, Armstrong is considering a confession of his doping sins. What, he's weary of the deception? He's guilt-stricken for all that cheating? He wants to be a role model for contrition and redemption? Nah. Lance wants to get cleared so he can return to competitive sports. He wants to wipe away years of selfish cheating with a self-serving apology. It will have to be a hell of an apology to make folks forget the self-righteous pit bull, denouncing and threatening doubters and accusers. Proposed: a televised debate between Juicer Pit Bull Lance and Seen-the-Light Lance.>>
gh wrote:from his column this morning, Scott Ostler's "Knucklehead Of The Week"
<<Knucklehead of the week: Lance Armstrong Lance wants to get cleared so he can return to competitive sports.
This must be a stupid question, but . . . why would they let him compete again?! Isn't a life-time ban the suitable punishment for all the cheating and lying?
Would not triathlon (presumably his next option) make him unwelcome also?
USADA head Travis Tygart on Showtime's 60 Minutes Sports tomorrow night, talking about Armstrong and his intimidation tactics - including death threats
My guess is that he plays (and wins with) the full-on sympathy card.
Oprah: "Whatever motivated you to take these drugs?"
Lance: "You've got to remember, I was coming off a scary case of cancer. At one point I didn't even know if I was going to live, let alone ever ride again. After all that agonizing chemo and radiation, there were times when I felt like I wanted to die. When my health started to return, I was willing to do everything and anything to feel like a normal human-being again. And then I realized that not only could I be normal, I could be super -normal. And I didn't have to do anything that all my peers weren't doing anyway, so at the time it didn't seem like such a bad thing to do. I now realize what a terrible decision that was."
And he doesn't have to say another word: that wins him the public's heart back, just like that.
(and it's possible—maybe even probable?—that all that made-up speech is true, save for the final sentence of course)
gh wrote:that wins him the public's heart back, just like that.
We'll see, I guess. While the cancer ploy has some weight, I can't believe it will be that easy to "win the public's heart back," if it is possible at all. The cycling world wrote him off quite some time ago--in part for his bullying and ultra-aggressive personality (which will not be changed). The general public doesn't care hugely about the technical details of any of this, but I would presume that his coming-to-Jesus will be too little and too late.
gh wrote:(and it's possible—maybe even probable?—that all that made-up speech is true, save for the final sentence of course)
But that confession would seem to imply that he wasn't doing drugs before he got cancer which is not true. About the only questions I can think of that I'd like to have answered is who first introduced him to drugs, when did he first start doping.
As kuha alluded to, the sympathy card is going to be hard to play considering Armstrong's bullying tactics and incessant threats. The hard questions will be related to those issues. Let's see if Winfrey asks them - and if so what he has to say for himself.
gh wrote:My guess is that he plays (and wins with) the full-on sympathy card.
Oprah: "Whatever motivated you to take these drugs?"
Lance: "You've got to remember, I was coming off a scary case of cancer. At one point I didn't even know if I was going to live, let alone ever ride again. After all that agonizing chemo and radiation, there were times when I felt like I wanted to die. When my health started to return, I was willing to do everything and anything to feel like a normal human-being again. And then I realized that not only could I be normal, I could be super -normal. And I didn't have to do anything that all my peers weren't doing anyway, so at the time it didn't seem like such a bad thing to do. I now realize what a terrible decision that was."
And he doesn't have to say another word: that wins him the public's heart back, just like that.
(and it's possible—maybe even probable?—that all that made-up speech is true, save for the final sentence of course)
Don't forget:
Q. So why all the vehement denials? Why not just come clean right away?
A. Because I was afraid doing so would damage the credibility and effectiveness of my [cancer] foundation. Some people--and companies understandably worried about their image--would unfairly tie the organization to their personal feelings about me and withold their [financial] backing in the future. Now it doesn't matter; people have already made up their minds.
[Again, as gh said, who's to say this isn't really the truth of it? If two of us--both with media ties, btw--thought this way, perhaps it is indeed accurate.] .
Just hope his delivery is better than Wood's .. wonder why he never did an "Oprah" ... could even she have things she would not touch ... or was he scared of her white hot grilling ...
GMH454 wrote:Just hope his delivery is better than Wood's .. wonder why he never did an "Oprah" ... could even she have things she would not touch ... or was he scared of her white hot grilling ...
guru wrote:As kuha alluded to, the sympathy card is going to be hard to play considering Armstrong's bullying tactics and incessant threats. The hard questions will be related to those issues. Let's see if Winfrey asks them - and if so what he has to say for himself.
He might just write that off on the omertà that existed in the peleton long before he became a pro cyclist.
guru wrote:As kuha alluded to, the sympathy card is going to be hard to play considering Armstrong's bullying tactics and incessant threats. The hard questions will be related to those issues. Let's see if Winfrey asks them - and if so what he has to say for himself.
He might just write that off on the omertà that existed in the peleton long before he became a pro cyclist.
Not so eaily "written off" - his lawsuits, or mudslinging at Travis Tygart and USADA
guru wrote:As kuha alluded to, the sympathy card is going to be hard to play considering Armstrong's bullying tactics and incessant threats. The hard questions will be related to those issues. Let's see if Winfrey asks them - and if so what he has to say for himself.
He might just write that off on the omertà that existed in the peleton long before he became a pro cyclist.
Not so eaily "written off" - his lawsuits, or mudslinging at Travis Tygart and USADA
Exactly. I presume that he's going to be sued by that Brit newspaper that he FALSELY sued in order to shut up several years back. He's cost lots of people time, trouble, and money. There's no reason any of that SHOULD be forgiven, and that dynamic will play out in the media for years, I presume.
What will be shocking is if anyone actually believes much of anything that comes out of this guy's mouth. This is damage control and a salvage mission and nothing more. He has a calculayef agenda just as he had with everything else he has done. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
gh wrote:(and it's possible—maybe even probable?—that all that made-up speech is true, save for the final sentence of course)
But that confession would seem to imply that he wasn't doing drugs before he got cancer which is not true. About the only questions I can think of that I'd like to have answered is who first introduced him to drugs, when did he first start doping.
Did you not see the Marion Jones Oprah interview?
She spouted all kinds of lies and insisted that she never knew she was taken performance enhancers all that time, despite multiple partners who where heavily involved in drugs, Balco timetables, several witnesses who saw her take various kinds and spoke to her about the effects and her concerns and the fact she even hired Ben Johnson's old coach later on in her career. Marion Jones version of events cntridicted virtually everybody else's version of events. It was ridiculous to anybody body who even vaguely followed the story.
But then Oprah isn't about getting to the truth, it's about rich and famous people painting an image and ensuring you have a career after a scandal.
eldanielfire wrote:Did you not see the Marion Jones Oprah interview?
She spouted all kinds of lies and insisted that she never knew she was taken performance enhancers all that time, despite multiple partners who where heavily involved in drugs, Balco timetables, several witnesses who saw her take various kinds and spoke to her about the effects and her concerns and the fact she even hired Ben Johnson's old coach later on in her career. Marion Jones version of events cntridicted virtually everybody else's version of events. It was ridiculous to anybody body who even vaguely followed the story.
Yes, I saw that interview. Here are the relevant parts of it IMO:
I doubt very seriously that Lance is going to pull a Marion and pretend he didn't know what he was taking. Hopefully Lance will surprise us and speak with the same candor that Kelli White did when Bryant Gumbel interviewed her for HBO's Real Sports.
eldanielfire wrote:But then Oprah isn't about getting to the truth, it's about rich and famous people painting an image and ensuring you have a career after a scandal.
I completely disagree with you on this. I thought Oprah did a good job and it was pretty obvious that she didn't believe her. What else did you expect her to do, waterboard Marion?
Don't believe a word he says, because not a word he says can be believed. When he looks at Winfrey with the doleful eyes of contrived contrition (carefully coached, because this is the biggest role of his life) and says I did it (he will apparently admit to limited blood doping), know that he did ten times more. When he says he didn’t do it, which I imagine he will do when it comes to threatening other teammates, know that Armstrong is just continuing his lies.
eldanielfire wrote:But then Oprah isn't about getting to the truth, it's about rich and famous people painting an image and ensuring you have a career after a scandal.
I completely disagree with you on this. I thought Oprah did a good job and it was pretty obvious that she didn't believe her. What else did you expect her to do, waterboard Marion?
She didn't probe one bit of her story. Not a single "But so and so said......are they lying?". The courts have vsaid...........happened. It was Oprah didn't believe her really but she didn't do anything at all but let/encourage Marion to continue with her lies. However I wouldn't have been surprised if their wasn't prior contracts to not ask certain questions, that's pretty standard in many interviews, especially one that would attract interest, ratings and money. Also Marion Jones is a pathlogical liar, she's the sort who convinces herself it's unfair that people don't believe her so it's unikel anbody would get to the bottom in a interview.
eldanielfire wrote:She didn't probe one bit of her story. Not a single "But so and so said......are they lying?". The courts have vsaid...........happened. It was Oprah didn't believe her really but she didn't do anything at all but let/encourage Marion to continue with her lies. However I wouldn't have been surprised if their wasn't prior contracts to not ask certain questions, that's pretty standard in many interviews, especially one that would attract interest, ratings and money. Also Marion Jones is a pathlogical liar, she's the sort who convinces herself it's unfair that people don't believe her so it's unikel anbody would get to the bottom in a interview.
Was Oprah as thorough as Bob Costas would have been which is what I would have liked? No. Would Marion have admitted being a willing doper if Oprah had been more thorough? Not likely. Was is obvious to any reasonably intelligent person that Marion was lying and that Oprah didn't believe her? Yes. The bottom line is that Oprah exposed Marion for all the world to see, though it may not have been to your liking.
Also check out the job the Piers Morgan did on Marion:
But a good try. Conor posted a quote (rant) from Gen. Jack Ripper from Dr. Strangelove. Minutes later, after the crazed General offs himself, Mandrake is puzzling over a piece of paper with various permutations of P O E on it (P O E , O P E, Peace On Earth, On Earth Peace, etc) figuring the recall code must be some variation of those three letters.
