m1500 Rank: this could be a first....


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Re: m1500 Rank: this could be a first....

Postby bushop » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:54 am

gh wrote:heats count (in the T&FN scheme of things) as part of win-loss if one of you advances and the other doesn't (in the same race), and as part of your seasonal-average.

Interesting... details like this make the T&F News rankings the most important historically.
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Re: m1500 Rank: this could be a first....

Postby said88 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:05 am

deanouk wrote:
I remember in 84 when the No.1 ranking was awarded to Aouita, based on 8 wins on the circuit out of 8, including the fastest time of 3:31.54. Most of his victories were in relatively low key races in Italy. But he remained unbeaten.
Coe was ranked No. 2, which I always thought was a strange decision. He ran fewer races (6), yes, but won the 2 most important races of the year (Olympics & Zurich), which were also the best quality in terms of depth of talent. Both were emphatic wins in the 2nd and 3rd fastest times of the year, the former being an Olympic record. Moreover, Aouita chose not to run in either race.


So, Aouita has mostly run in "relatively low key races in Italy"? Whereas Coe has just competed in the BIG ones - that's what you want to tell us? Deano!

Aouita has had 9 runs at the distance. All wins. Including: Koblenz, Paris, Hengelo, London, Zürich, African Championships. In one of the "low key" races in Italy he has reportedly run the fastest sprint finish in the history of the event. Also we're both sceptical about this, after the Ryun case it seems to be clear that it at least was super fast. He has had big victories in June, July, August and September. Not to forget that he ended the year as the fastest over 1500m and the Mile.

On the other side, Coe has won the very prestigious Southern Counties Championships, the Beverley Baxter Trophy and in the British League. But unfortunately just came in 2nd at another of these 1st class meets, the AAA champs.

So, clearly Aouita has run mainly in low key races whereas Coe just just did the opposite.

I don't say Aouita must be the Nr. 1 in 84 over 1500m, but to put it in the way you did really is not very helpful at all.

Aouita choose not to run in LA and Zürich 1500m? You know very well that he couldn't compete in LA because he ran the 5000m (where he probably has seen a higher chance for winning, to run both was not possible). It's really a must to tell this. And in Zürich? Both have ran very similar times, and I very much doubt that Aouita was the one who choose that he isn't in the 1500m field. Exactly like me, you don't know what really has happened that there were two races. Coe has had much more to loose than Aouita, and I strongly believe Coe (best friend of Brügger) was the one who didn't wanted him in the 1500m field. But for sure I don't know that. Same for you.
It's really not very helpful to put it in the way you want it.

There is a very good reason to put Aouita on the Nr. 1 over 1500m in 1984, also for sure some can differ because of the very big importance of the Olympics. (it just tells us that in some cases it's just not very helpful to do such a ranking at all). But the way you want to put it is just totally misleading. And you know that, Deano.
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Re: m1500 Rank: this could be a first....

Postby Marlow » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:10 am

said88 wrote:(it just tells us that in some cases it's just not very helpful to do such a ranking at all). But the way you want to put it is just totally misleading.

A. How is it useful to have NO ranking?!
B. You have an opinion. Dean has an opinion. Neither is 'misleading'. They're just different.
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Re: m1500 Rank: this could be a first....

Postby said88 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:33 am

Marlow wrote:
said88 wrote:(it just tells us that in some cases it's just not very helpful to do such a ranking at all). But the way you want to put it is just totally misleading.

A. How is it useful to have NO ranking?!
B. You have an opinion. Dean has an opinion. Neither is 'misleading'. They're just different.


Aouita has had no chance to compete in LA (or he would have had to skip the 5000m where he probably thought nobody could beat him). I think in such cases it's much more helpful to do a ranking for "distance running" at all.

And it's definitely not an opinion what I have written. I don't say Aouita is/was better, or Coe is/was better. But we just should stay with the facts.

Aouita has definitely not run "low key races" in Italy. Coe almost only has run low key races (for sure with two important exceptions). But why not just writing it like that?
And it's also definitely not a fact that Aouita choose not to compete in Zürich over 1500m. I very much doubt this. Has Res Brügger/Seb Coe said this? That's not very helpful at all. Aouita probably has said the opposite.
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