Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983


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Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby Alan Shank » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:00 pm

I have updated my database of top-8 results from all WC and Oly starting
with the first WC in '83. I just created a query that totes up points by
individuals in each event (except the walks) and spits them out for all
athletes with more than 10 points (on an 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 basis). I ran
the query for each event, then concatenated the output all together in
one file, a text file that can be accessed at:

http://www.notoriousshankbrothers.com/eventPoints.txt

These are certainly not all correct, however. Some errors are due to
changes in name (for women getting married) and changes in spelling
(Ukrainians and other former Soviet citiziens) or just transliteration
that I've missed. Others are due to not going back and changing results
for doping DQs after the fact. Some of these I have covered (like Marion
Jones and Rashid Ramzi), but I know I've missed others. So, don't take
these as gospel, but they are nonetheless interesting. For one thing,
note the Yuriy Borzakovskiy is tied with Wilson Kipketer as the top
point-getter in the M 800. Молодец!

These listing are heavily weighted toward longevity, of course, and also
favor athletes competing after the WC went to every other year,
disfavoring athletes near the end of their careers when the "WC era"
began. Whatever. They are still interesting (to some).
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby tgs3 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:18 pm

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby gh » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:45 am

Wonderful stuff!

I think the two highest scorers seem to be Alekna 79 and Mutola 74.

(how about a composite by score, irrespective of event?)
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby Alan Shank » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:40 am

gh wrote:Wonderful stuff!

I think the two highest scorers seem to be Alekna 79 and Mutola 74.

(how about a composite by score, irrespective of event?)


You want more? I have to think about modifying the query to sum by individual. BTW, the inspiration for this effort was reading the book Jim Rorick gave me, with all the Olympic results through 2004. I'm thinking of adding some of the Olympic results prior to 1983 to my database. The drawback, of course, is the relative paucity of global championships before the Worlds were initiated, as well as the (in my view) ill-conceived boycott of 1980. The same issue always comes up in baseball, with the (also in my view) ridiculous expansion of playoff rounds.

BTW, I added a bit of formatting to the file, so if you access it now it will be easier to read.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby tm71 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:02 pm

fantastic work. yeah u should add the results for all olympic finals only if u indicate which athletes were never able to compete in the iaaf world championships. i agree that the the pre 1983 athletes would be handicapped, for example even someone like Al Orter who won four consequetive olympics would only have 32 points, far less than alekna. obviously we cant compare the marathon to a field even like the discus so comparisons across events makes little sense.
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby Olli » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:40 am

I cannot find JTm in this file.
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby Alan Shank » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:44 am

Olli wrote:I cannot find JTm in this file.


Neither can I! The file at my website now has it. Download it again. 72 points for Zelezny.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby Alan Shank » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:08 am

gh wrote:Wonderful stuff!

I think the two highest scorers seem to be Alekna 79 and Mutola 74.

(how about a composite by score, irrespective of event?)


Ask, etc.
http://www.notoriousshankbrothers.com/i ... Totals.txt

Another disclaimer is in order: my database has relay results only by country, so Carl Lewis, who heads this new list, anyway, is not getting any points for all the relay placings he had. Same, of course, with all the other sprinters and 400 runners. Whatever. This is what I've got, and you're welcome to it.

Also:

http://www.notoriousshankbrothers.com/R ... triees.txt

These are the points for relay finishes 1-8 on the same basis, by country. Of course, the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the re-arranging of some of the Eastern European countries make for some confusion. I did not combine Czechoslovakia with Czech Republic or East/West Germany with Germany, etc. Here again, take this with a grain of salt, or several.

I didn't know, BTW, that gh was going to put that first file in the "Day's Best Reading" section; it's OK, but the disclaimer should have been included, in my view.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby lapsus » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:46 am

Very interesting!

Some of the more surprising top scorers (to me, at least):
Sabine Braun
Anna Chicherova
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby bushop » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:18 pm

Alan Shank wrote:... is not getting any points for all the relay placings he had. Same, of course, with all the other sprinters and 400 runners.

Good... relay points skew the numbers.
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby j-a-m » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:29 am

bushop wrote:Good... relay points skew the numbers.

You could always divide the relay points by four to get the individual contribution, the way some collegiate conference championships do it when they calculate the individual point scorer.
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby bushop » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:46 am

j-a-m wrote:
bushop wrote:Good... relay points skew the numbers.

You could always divide the relay points by four to get the individual contribution, the way some collegiate conference championships do it when they calculate the individual point scorer.

Sure... but that is not an accurate representation of points scored by the individual.
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby j-a-m » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:58 am

bushop wrote:Sure... but that is not an accurate representation of points scored by the individual.

On the one hand, winning relay medals requires being from a country that has other good runners in that event. On the other hand, once you're from such a country, it's also more difficult to make the team in the individual event in the first place; you probably have to go through Trials, which makes it more difficult to peak at OG or WC.

So on balance I do believe it provides an accurate representation to include relay points divided by four.
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby Alan Shank » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:03 am

j-a-m wrote:
bushop wrote:Good... relay points skew the numbers.

You could always divide the relay points by four to get the individual contribution, the way some collegiate conference championships do it when they calculate the individual point scorer.


Well, I can't do that because the information on who were the relay members is not in the database at all. However,...

What about runners who ran the heats, but not the final? Let's see just how complicated we can make this, like the attempts to divvy up the money in "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World"! >:-) A runner get two shares for running in the final, and one share for running in the heats, so the total number of shares would be twelve. A runner in both heats and finals would then get three shares, or 1/4 of the total points. A runner running just the final would get 2/12, or 1/6 of the points, and a runner who just competes in the heat gets 1/12 of the total points.

So, taking the US women's 4X100 from London, here are the points awarded:

Tianna Madison and Bianca Knight each get 2 points
Allyson Felix and Carmelita Jeter each get 1 1/3 points, or 1.33333333......
Jeneba Tarmoh and Lauryn Williams each get 2/3 of a point, or .66666666

Let's check our arithmetic: 2 + 2 + 1.33333333 + 1.3333333 + .66666666 + .66666666 = anyone?
Let's not always see the same hands, please.

This works fine for the current setup, but what about when they had heats and semis?

Hey, now I remember why I didn't put individual relay runners in my database!
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby j-a-m » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:24 pm

Alan Shank wrote:What about runners who ran the heats, but not the final?

Valid point; I'd be fine only giving points to those that run the final, though. Prelim runners put them in a position to win a medal, runners in the final actually win the medal.

More importantly, great job putting all this together!
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby berkeley » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:26 pm

Fascinating lists, thank you ... Alekna is only beaten by 7 multi-eventers, male or female.

Interesting that the top 4 single-event scorers on the mens' side are throwers, 3 of them Discus. If you add earlier luminaries such as Oerter, it's clearly the leading event for longevity.
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby Gabriella » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:57 am

lapsus wrote:Some of the more surprising top scorers (to me, at least):
Sabine Braun


But why though? She first competed at the 84 Olympics then carried right through to 2002! Her last Wch/Oly was Sydney 2000 where she finished 5th (but of course she got that Euro silver in 2002 behind Kluft). In between that long career she won World Championships in 91 and 97 and came second in 93, as well as just missing bronze in 99 (by 3pts!) thus having the best World Championships record of any heptathlete. She also had Olympic bronze in 1992. Overall a very long and consistent career:

83 Wch- DNS
84 Oly - 6th
87 Wch - 18th
88 Oly - 14th
91 Wch - 1st
92 Oly - 3rd
93 Wch - 2nd
95 Wch - DNF
96 Oly - 7th
97 Wch - 1st
99 Wch - 4th
00 Oly- 5th
01 Wch- DNS
02 - retired (after euro medal)
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby deuch » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:48 pm

Interesting information.
I was surprised how low the scores were for the best 400m runnes considering that they are mostly big names.

I suspect that a few of Valerie Adams/Vili/Adams results have been missed out.
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby Alan Shank » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:56 pm

deuch wrote:Interesting information.
I was surprised how low the scores were for the best 400m runnes considering that they are mostly big names.

I suspect that a few of Valerie Adams/Vili/Adams results have been missed out.


Here's what is in the database:
2003 WC 5 18.65
2004 OG 8 18.56
2005 WC 3 19.62
2007 WC 1 20.54
2008 OG 1 20.56
2009 WC 1 20.44
2011 WC 1 21.24
2012 OG 1 20.70
totals 51 points
Anything missing? Correction are welcome!
BTW, I am currently in the process of adding OG 1956-1980. This will take a while; it's laborious.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Individual point scores for WC, Oly since 1983

Postby leoesharkey » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:31 pm

Wow :D
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