so what's the men's POY now?


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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby mump boy » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:13 am

EPelle wrote:Officially, yes. Unless he didn't hold the official lead from 0-400m.


Not even officially, he leads to 800

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GfuqCDt ... re=related
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby EPelle » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:45 am

The split markers indicate Kiprop led at 400m in 56,5 and 800m in 1.56,1. Belal Mansoor Ali led through 1200m in 2.53,9, with Kiprop in tow at 2.54,1. I misremembered seeing him in 'front' at 1200m. Kiprop regained the lead and pushed a 52,9 (25,9) to eventually be declared the victor. You're absolutely accurate.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby gh » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:16 am

mump boy wrote:
lionelp1 wrote:....

Has there been in the modern OG an athlete at middle distance who has won, leading from gun to tape.??


On the men's side Juantorena 76 was the last time


Not so: Wohlhuter led at 200, Sri Ram Singh at 400.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby gibson » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:11 am

http://www.iaaf.org/mm/Document/Competi ... _23299.pdf

a 140.9 800m scores better than 12.80 110h in the tables.
as was said many times before, iaaf the tables are just another opinion, albeit a very good one in my book.

i think both records have a lot of room for improvement.
the 800 record should be at 139
and the 110h? - see the 2 step thread!
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby mump boy » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:39 am

gh wrote:
mump boy wrote:
lionelp1 wrote:....

Has there been in the modern OG an athlete at middle distance who has won, leading from gun to tape.??


On the men's side Juantorena 76 was the last time


Not so: Wohlhuter led at 200, Sri Ram Singh at 400.


I misread the original post had no idea if he lead the whole way !!
Last edited by mump boy on Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Dave » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:14 am

mump boy wrote:
berkeley wrote:Most posts are assuming Eaton is clearly 3rd. I'm not so sure. I'm completely on the fence.

I think Rudisha's performance was devalued slightly by the lack of competition (I mean in his mind - I'm sure he had no idea that Amos could run 1:41.73, while he was probably fairly confident that he could run whatever it took to win comfortably off any pace). So, the argument that he risked a lot more than the others doesn't hold much water for me.

Eaton's effort was hugely hampered by the conditions - how many jumps or throws WRs or near-WRs have been set in heavy rain ? If you value courage, his 1500 was every bit as gutsy as Rudisha's 800.


No it wasn't, he had nothing to lose going into the 1500 he was in a win, win. Even if he hadn't break the WR he was definitely going to win the events and qualify for OG.

....


Did Eaton even need to finish the event to make the team? That said, I think the weather is very significant for his performance. What was his best prior effort in crappy weather? Did anyone else PR that day?

From IAAF, it looks like he typically PRs in Eugene in May or June and has been averaging 300pts improvement year in year out.

A 4.5second PR in the 1500 seems like a pretty big deal to me after he had set several other PRs.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby mump boy » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:33 pm

I think he was amazing in Eugene but because Rudisha was at OG it's better for me
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby lionelp1 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:08 am

mump boy wrote:
gh wrote:
mump boy wrote:
lionelp1 wrote:....

Has there been in the modern OG an athlete at middle distance who has won, leading from gun to tape.??


On the men's side Juantorena 76 was the last time


Not so: Wohlhuter led at 200, Sri Ram Singh at 400.


I misread the original post had no idea if he lead the whole way !!


Looking at the race Juantorena was first across the track after the break and Singh led Juantorena after a crazy little burst for about 11 seconds from 50.85 to 61 seconds. Not quite the same as DR
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Dave » Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:59 am

mump boy wrote:I think he was amazing in Eugene but because Rudisha was at OG it's better for me


This is a pretty amazing year to have these performances to argue about.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Gabriella » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:52 am

Difficult one for me.

Rudisha's run was amazing, and I agree that the manner of his run makes it even more special, but, it was 'only' an improvement of 0.10 on the existing WR which was only 2 years old. Howver, he did break the 1:41 barrier, which has it's own special kudos.

Eaton's WR was just a 13 pt improvement on Sebrle's WR, which is not very big at all in decathlon terms, however, he beat a barrier-breaking WR that was set in perfect conditions and that has stood for 11 years. This must also count for something.

Merritt's margin of improvement is relatively the best of the three, beating the old WR by 0.07. But the WR was again 'only' 4 years old and one that could have gone sooner had we seen the right people in a race in the right conditions. I'm thinking specifically Liu and Robles.

I'd go with:
1. Rudish
2. Eaton
3. Merritt
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby pickle47 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:18 pm

I am having a hard time according Rudisha special consideration for leading the OG 800 start to finish. That's the way he runs the race every time! Has he ever sat back the first lap and then moved to the front at 600m? Not in the last few years. He was never going to do anything BUT lead wire to wire. Sorry, that's like giving Filbert Bayi kudos for going out in 53. It's his MO. The fact that it was the OG might have made his stomach churn a little bit more at the start, but who went to the line with more confidence this year than Rudisha? No one.

As for the 110H record being 'soft' because the right parties didn't get in the 'right' race...name another event where the principles race each other more consistently. You never hear about hurdlers ducking one another. On the contrary, much has been written about their relatively aberrant penchant for hammering each other week in, week out. There were plenty of fast races over the last few years (decades) and many, many opportunities to go deeper into the 12.8s. Look at how the men's 100m mark went down in the 1980s and 90s. A hundredth here, two hundedths there. It took a Bolt to move it down a tenth or more in one fell swoop. That's how the short sprint events progress, and the records are not therefore soft.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby lionelp1 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:48 pm

pickle47 wrote:I am having a hard time according Rudisha special consideration for leading the OG 800 start to finish. That's the way he runs the race every time! Has he ever sat back the first lap and then moved to the front at 600m? Not in the last few years. He was never going to do anything BUT lead wire to wire. Sorry, that's like giving Filbert Bayi kudos for going out in 53. It's his MO. The fact that it was the OG might have made his stomach churn a little bit more at the start, but who went to the line with more confidence this year than Rudisha? No one.

As for the 110H record being 'soft' because the right parties didn't get in the 'right' race...name another event where the principles race each other more consistently. You never hear about hurdlers ducking one another. On the contrary, much has been written about their relatively aberrant penchant for hammering each other week in, week out. There were plenty of fast races over the last few years (decades) and many, many opportunities to go deeper into the 12.8s. Look at how the men's 100m mark went down in the 1980s and 90s. A hundredth here, two hundedths there. It took a Bolt to move it down a tenth or more in one fell swoop. That's how the short sprint events progress, and the records are not therefore soft.


Sorry you are having a hard time, but really that is the most weird post, first paragraph, I have read even for this Forum. Fancy going to the line knowing you are better than the other guys :lol: ....like every great champion maybe. Like Bolt, like Bekele for years, like.... so many its not worth adding them all up.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby mump boy » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:20 am

Apparently we are supposed to mark athletes down for being better than everyone else !! :?
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Dave » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:21 am

Some are arguing that Rudisha had no rabbit. Wouldn't 3 guys under 1:43 constitute some help with pacing?
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:24 am

Dave wrote:Some are arguing that Rudisha had no rabbit. Wouldn't 3 guys under 1:43 constitute some help with pacing?


Not if they are all behind him.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby berkeley » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:24 am

lionelp1 wrote:Has there been in the modern OG an athlete at middle distance who has won, leading from gun to tape.??

I can't think of one. That's definitely a point in favor for POY. The closest I can think of was Cruz, who was always very close to the lead - but sitting on the leader's shoulder is clearly much easier than leading. Keino led for the last 850m of his Mexico 1500 ... but lagged near the back for the first lap.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby EPelle » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:37 am

Though the question raised was about which middle distance men have raced gun-to-tape in modern Olympics, it's worth noting that Paula Ivan ran wire-to-wire in that brilliant w-1500m in Seoul. She ran a fast time (3.53,96 OR) and won gold.
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Re: so what's the men's POY now?

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:37 am

berkeley wrote:
lionelp1 wrote:Has there been in the modern OG an athlete at middle distance who has won, leading from gun to tape.??

I can't think of one. That's definitely a point in favor for POY. The closest I can think of was Cruz, who was always very close to the lead - but sitting on the leader's shoulder is clearly much easier than leading. Keino led for the last 850m of his Mexico 1500 ... but lagged near the back for the first lap.


In that race, Keino had his own personal rabbit in Ben Jipcho.
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