Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

[gh]

ahh, but last year nobody set a World Record in mainstream non-road event.

[Dave]

ahh, but last year nobody set a World Record in mainstream non-road event.

And that tells me that Mr. Rudisha is the runaway favorite to be AOY.

[tandfman]

ahh, but last year nobody set a World Record in mainstream non-road event.

And that tells me that Mr. Rudisha is the runaway favorite to be AOY.

I think gh was referring to the fact that this year, Eaton set a WR in a mainstream non-road event.

[Conor Dary]

ahh, but last year nobody set a World Record in mainstream non-road event.

And that tells me that Mr. Rudisha is the runaway favorite to be AOY.

I think gh was referring to the fact that this year, Eaton set a WR in a mainstream non-road event.

Well so did Rudisha.

[tandfman]

Yes, but Eaton is undefeated.

[Conor Dary]

Yes, but Eaton is undefeated.

Yes, that is true and DR is not...

[ATK]

Yes, but Eaton is undefeated.

Im going with J-A-M and is recent statements.

Should Rudisha be penalized for racing more? Would you rank Rudisha equally if he only ran twice, the Kenyan trials and The Olympics?

[dbirds]

[quote][Hopefully it won't. It won't be on his cv for the year. The only time we include indoor marks is if they're the same as outdoors. So while the field events count, the 60 and 60 hurdles don't, banked track 400s, don't, etc,. etc. And that includes the men's kept, which rewards a whole different skill set than the decathlon./quote]

Since multi eventers compete so in frequent then I would think indoor heptathlons should be considered

[lionelp1]

This AOY really is crazy; how can you fairly compare probably the greatest individual track and field performance at the OG in a WR and undefeated except a blip in his last race of the year, with Eaton's outstanding WR in the States and his victory in the OG.
Answer is, you cannot compare objectively, merely subjective as the AOY thing is nearly every year.

The perfect example of the aphorism " comparisons are odious " and impossible.

[EPelle]

What impact have Rudisha and Eaton had on their events? To me, the AOY is beyond winning and setting good marks. The athlete of the year is s/he who, in addition to setting good marks and accumulates a great winning percentage over the course of the season, has the greatest impact on their event. And, ultimately, on the sport. Rudisha's not only set a world record, won the Olympics and had only one loss on the season, he's elevated the playing field for others competing against him. Eight personal records and four national records from the world's elite have been set in his last two races as have two world junior records. That's impact. Has Eaton had the same impact? Bolt has more losses than Rudisha, and had them on home soil in national competition.

[18.99s]

Also the idea that his WR is worth more because it has stood for longer is nonsense considering Rudisha beat his own mark ? if he hadn't bothered to run WR records before he would have broken one that had stood for 15 years

When looking at how long the WR stood, the athlete's own previous WRs shouldn't count. In the battle of WR longevity with the current WR holder vs. everybody else in history, I go back to the record held by the previous athlete, and performances by other athletes that are better than the previous WR holder but not good enough to be a new record.

So IMO Rudisha is still pummeling Kipketer's 15-year-old record, not breaking a "mere" 2-year-old record, because Rudisha alone has performed better than the 1997 record. And if Eaton broke the WR again in London, that would be a further assault on Sebrle's 2001 record, not breaking a "mere" 6-week-old record, because Eaton himself is the only one to have ever bettered the 2001 record.

[Tuariki]

If Eaton did only the long jump and Ennis did only the 100 hurdles, they would have both been medal contenders.

This is true. But it wouldn't make them AOY contenders

[mal]

AOY - losing points in a meaningless race post Olympics is like discounting fat Elvis in his latter stages of life.

I'd still pay to watch him, and wouldn't be concerned with a few breathy notes too many.

I'd rather Rudisha ran on than shut it down. Clearly he was ready to hang it up, like last year when he was beaten post the big event, in a slow time.

If AOY is meaningful, who cares about his loss at 1:42 +

[dbirds]

Eaton set world decathlon records in the 100m and long jump and set WRs in the heptathlon and decathlons! He beat a 2-time defending world
Champion Trey hardee twice. Many former
Decathletes and historians call Eaton the best decathlete ever. He has taken the event to
The next level. There's really nothing more he could
Have feasibly done in 2012!

[mump boy]

Eaton set world decathlon records in the 100m and long jump and set WRs in the heptathlon and decathlons! He beat a 2-time defending world
Champion Trey hardee twice. Many former
Decathletes and historians call Eaton the best decathlete ever. He has taken the event to
The next level. There's really nothing more he could
Have feasibly done in 2012!

He may prove to be so in the future but at the moment NOBODY calls Eaton the best decathlete ever !! He's not even the best decathlete of this century at the moment

Beating a 2 time defending champion has no bearing nor does his Heptathlon achievements.

[gh]

....

He may prove to be so in the future but at the moment NOBODY calls Eaton the best decathlete ever !! He's not even the best decathlete of this century at the moment
....

At the risk of parsing words too finely, there is no question that the Eaton is the best decathlete ever. The World Record (with much room to grow) adequately proves that.

However, is he the greatest decathlete ever? To paraphrase your correct statement, he's not even the greatest of this century. Yet.

[Marlow]

However, is he the greatest decathlete ever? To paraphrase your correct statement, he's not even the greatest of this century. Yet.

More semantics. Is he the Dec GOAT? Absolutely not. He needs a fuller CV. Is he the most talented/highest performing (irrespective of era) decathlete ever? I've got him in a tie with Thorpe right now, and if he adds a point to the WR or wins the OG Dec again, he's got my vote.

[jazzcyclist]

What's a "CV"?

[Conor Dary]

What's a "CV"?

curriculum vitæ. The courses of my life. Sort of a resume.

[26mi235]

ahh, but last year nobody set a World Record in mainstream non-road event.

And that tells me that Mr. Rudisha is the runaway favorite to be AOY.

I think gh was referring to the fact that this year, Eaton set a WR in a mainstream non-road event.

Well so did Rudisha.

In gh's comment, last year no one (else) set a WR => thus winning despite being beaten at the end was more easily done. This year he faces a harder set of competition. Bolt was definitely better, Eaton broke an important WR under difficult conditions and shattered his own indoors, so when he did compete in a similar event (as similar as possible) he set the standard there too. Only doing two competitions is a major disadvantage in the 10, 200, etc., even the 1500; the 5000 matters a bit less, especially with doubling, but hurts you more in the 5000 ranking than overall ranking.

Eaton was competing at a high level in non-Multi events, and probably beating all the multi guys almost all the time, although you would not expect him to do so in the SP/DT/JT.

Thus, the multis create a conundrum for the AOY voting. Comparing Ennis and Eaton, a new WR vs three hundred points below puts him further up the quality totem pole.

[j-a-m]

When looking at how long the WR stood, the athlete's own previous WRs shouldn't count. In the battle of WR longevity with the current WR holder vs. everybody else in history, I go back to the record held by the previous athlete, and performances by other athletes that are better than the previous WR holder but not good enough to be a new record.

That's a valid point, and the correct way to look at it.

[Dave]

Eaton set world decathlon records in the 100m and long jump and set WRs in the heptathlon and decathlons! He beat a 2-time defending world
Champion Trey hardee twice. Many former
Decathletes and historians call Eaton the best decathlete ever. He has taken the event to
The next level. There's really nothing more he could
Have feasibly done in 2012!

I agree that there is nothing more he could have feasibly done this year. I am curious what others think he needs to do to be the GOAT. 3 WR in the Hep, the WR in the Decathlon, and now the gold medal. So, another gold medal? Another WR or two in the Hep? Another WR in the Dec?
I'll be shocked if he doesn't add another hundred points to the his Hep in the next couple years and another hundred or so in the Dec before it is all over. By the time he has finished with it, it will take 20-30 years for someone to beat his heptathlon record.

[26mi235]

When looking at how long the WR stood, the athlete's own previous WRs shouldn't count. In the battle of WR longevity with the current WR holder vs. everybody else in history, I go back to the record held by the previous athlete, and performances by other athletes that are better than the previous WR holder but not good enough to be a new record.

That's a valid point, and the correct way to look at it.

Correct way to look at it except that his WR got him last year's AOY points. The WR was a mere one year ago and only a little bit. What is more impressive is that very few WRs have been set in races longer than 400m in the OGs or even the WCs.

[dbirds]

General question: how many WRs have been set in worst conditions than Eatons?

[mrbowie]

Bolt AOY

[bushop]

General question: how many WRs have been set in worst conditions than Eatons?

Compared to the typical ½ mile WRs Rudisha's pacemakerless time trial sub-1:41 was in pretty harsh conditions.

[nianchengyu]

If Eaton can take another dec in WCallenges or adding some good LJs in DL,he will definately got my vote even if his below-par oly peformance.

[j-a-m]

Correct way to look at it except that his WR got him last year's AOY points.

Good point, hadn't thought of that. We are after all talking about achievements in a given year, and not about career achievements.

[toyracer]

Bolt AOY

Being beaten at his national championships in each event takes the shine off the Bolt apple.

[j-a-m]

Being beaten at his national championships in each event takes the shine off the Bolt apple.

Then again, those were the Trials, with the main goal to finish in the top three to make the team. And Bolt easily did that.

[mump boy]

Being beaten at his national championships in each event takes the shine off the Bolt apple.

Then again, those were the Trials, with the main goal to finish in the top three to make the team. And Bolt easily did that.

You really don't understand the concept of judging AOY do you ?

[dbirds]

If Eaton can take another dec in WCallenges or adding some good LJs in DL,he will definately got my vote even if his below-par oly peformance.

Below par? It was the 9th best Performance ever, 2nd best Olympic performance ever, ahead of Bryan Clay and Daley thompsons career best and his 2nd best ever mark!

[j-a-m]

You really don't understand the concept of judging AOY do you ?

Why don't you explain it to me then

[mump boy]

Well for a start it's based on certifiable facts not undefinable personal opinion.

It doesn't matter what Bolt's motivation was at the trials, the FACT is that he lost twice and this will be held against him when it comes to judging him against his peers. Especially those that haven't lost and/or have set WR, it is impossible for him to be placed above them.

[Marlow]

It doesn't matter what Bolt's motivation was at the trials, the FACT is that he lost twice and this will be held against him when it comes to judging him against his peers.

True dat. AOY is reserved for the guy was was on his game ALL the time, regardless of circumstances. I hate seeing a Bolt or Rudisha losing AOY on a smaller stage, but it is what it is. I'll be astounded if Eaton ain't it now.