Kenyan Coach is Missing the Point

[Marlow]

from home-page-linked article:

The Government and Athletics Kenya (AK) have been asked to put in place measures of restricting foreign athletes training in Kenya. Team Kenya athletics head coach Julius Kirwa said this will protect the country’s runners from learning Kenya’s tactics.

I'm sorry, but this guy is clueless. He should be inviting the world's best to come train with the Kenyans so he can see what THEY are doing. I'm pretty sure the Kenyans did not sweep all the distance events despite having arguably the world's best athletes. Have you checked the Marathon all-time list? It's absolutely ridiculous! Here's the Kenyan sub-2:07ers.

2:03:38 Patrick Makau Musyoki KEN
2:03:42 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN
2:04:27 Duncan Kibet Kirong KEN
2:04:27 James Kipsang Kwambai KEN
2:04:40 Emmanuel Kipchirchir Mutai KEN
2:04:55 Paul Tergat KEN
2:04:55 Geoffrey Kiprono Mutai KEN
2:04:56 Sammy Kipchoge Korir KEN
2:04:56 Jonathan Kiplimo Maiyo KEN
2:05:03 Moses Cheruiyot Mosop KEN
2:05:04 Abel Kirui KEN
2:05:10 Samuel Kamau Wanjiru KEN
2:05:12 Stanley Kipleting Biwott KEN
2:05:13 Vincent Kipruto KEN
2:05:15 Martin Kiptoo Lel KEN
2:05:16 Levy Matebo Omari KEN
2:05:25 Albert Kiplagat Matebor KEN
2:05:27 Wilson Kwambai Chebet KEN
2:05:37 Wilson Loyanae Ekupe KEN
2:05:39 Eliud Kiptanui KEN
2:05:48 Jafred Chirchir Kipchumba KEN
2:05:49 William Kipsang KEN
2:05:50 Evans Rutto KEN
2:06:05 Laban Korir KEN
2:06:07 Erick Ndiema KEN
2:06:07 Philip Kimutai Sanga KEN
2:06:14 Felix Limo KEN
2:06:14 Gilbert Kipruto Kirwa KEN
2:06:15 Titus Munji KEN
2:06:15 Wesley Korir KEN
2:06:16 Moses Tanui KEN
2:06:16 Daniel Njenga KEN
2:06:18 Gilbert Yegon KEN
2:06:23 Robert Cheboror KEN
2:06:23 Robert Kiprono Cheruiyot KEN
2:06:25 Evans Kiprop Cheruiyot KEN
2:06:26 David Kemboi Kiyeng KEN
2:06:28 Nathaniel Kipkosgei KEN
2:06:29 Bernard Kiprop Kipyego KEN
2:06:31 Benjamin Kolum Kiptoo KEN
2:06:31 Peter Cheruiyot Kirui KEN
2:06:33 Michael Kosgei Rotich KEN
2:06:34 Nicholas Manza Kamakya KEN
2:06:41 Elijah Keitany KEN
2:06:44 Josephat Kiprono KEN
2:06:44 Paul Kiprop Kirui KEN
2:06:45 Richard Limo KEN
2:06:47 Fred Kiprop Kiptum KEN
2:06:47 Raymond Kipkoech Chemwelo KEN
2:06:47 Wilson Onsare KEN
2:06:48 Michael Kipkorir Kipyego KEN
2:06:49 Simon Biwott KEN
2:06:49 Joseph Muriithi Riri KEN
2:06:49 Sylvester Kimeli Teimet KEN
2:06:50 William Kiplagat KEN
2:06:50 Moses Kimeli Arusei KEN
2:06:52 Vincent Kiprotich Kipsos KEN
2:06:52 Charles Seronei Kibiwott KEN
2:06:53 David Kipkorir Mandago KEN
2:06:54 Ondoro Osoro KEN
2:06:54 Paul Biwott KEN
2:06:58 Daniel Rono KEN
2:06:58 Henry Kemo Sugut KEN

He's got the horses - he's the one who could use some cross-pollination of training practices.

[tgs3]

But don't you realize the only reason Rupp didn't win gold is because that thief Farah stole his training tactics?

Just in case, I better point out that I'm not being serious...

[croflash]

Welcome to the 21st century, Mr. Kirwa. Have we met yet?

[proofs in the pudd'in]

How many other nations take other athletes and let them train on thier soil, use their resources, knowledge, etc. as we do and then run for their home county - and we still are a racist, zenophobic nation I am calling for him to be fined and fired for such hateful, racists, zenophobic speech. How dare him not share his secrets with the world - how unprogressive and narrow minded.

[nicest person ever]

Btw, just as a fun hypothetical-scenario question:

If all the top few dozen of the current best Kenyan and Ethiopian middle-distance and distance runners were to suddenly move here to the U.S. and get trained under our best coaching systems that we have here now, what types of performances do you think we'd see from them?

How much lower do you think the 1500m, 5k and 10k WR's would be lowered to?

How much would the group average of their overall group improve by?

(obviously I realize there's no way to know with any reasonable certainty what would actually happen, but I'm just asking for fun, what people's guesses are of what level of improvement we might see, if we pretend you had a gun to your head and had to make a guess)

[rainy.here]

Btw, just as a fun hypothetical-scenario question:

If all the top few dozen of the current best Kenyan and Ethiopian middle-distance and distance runners were to suddenly move here to the U.S. and get trained under our best coaching systems that we have here now, what types of performances do you think we'd see from them?

How much lower do you think the 1500m, 5k and 10k WR's would be lowered to?

I think most of them would get slower.

[nicest person ever]

oh

[Marlow]

Btw, just as a fun hypothetical-scenario question:
If all the top few dozen of the current best Kenyan and Ethiopian middle-distance and distance runners were to suddenly move here to the U.S. and get trained under our best coaching systems that we have here now, what types of performances do you think we'd see from them?
How much lower do you think the 1500m, 5k and 10k WR's would be lowered to?

I think most of them would get slower.

I agree. My unsubstantiated hunch is that the Ken/Eth 'secret' is mega-mileage and most coaches in the USA don't like that because of the injury rate. We'd rather hang on to the talent we have. It almost seems as if they don't care about that (acceptable risk-reward).

That said, there are things that coaches like Salazar do that could probably help a great many of them.

[TN1965]

Btw, just as a fun hypothetical-scenario question:
If all the top few dozen of the current best Kenyan and Ethiopian middle-distance and distance runners were to suddenly move here to the U.S. and get trained under our best coaching systems that we have here now, what types of performances do you think we'd see from them?
How much lower do you think the 1500m, 5k and 10k WR's would be lowered to?

I think most of them would get slower.

I agree. My unsubstantiated hunch is that the Ken/Eth 'secret' is mega-mileage and most coaches in the USA don't like that because of the injury rate. We'd rather hang on to the talent we have. It almost seems as if they don't care about that (acceptable risk-reward).

That said, there are things that coaches like Salazar do that could probably help a great many of them.

Jos Hermens has asked Salazar to coach both Tariku and Kenenisa. So at least he thinks Alberto could help Bekele brothers.

And leading up to the Olympics, Mo and Galen were running 135-145 miles/week including 30-35 on underwater treadmill. That's not far from what top Kenyans are allegedly running. There are probably runners in Schumacher's and Roland's groups who are running similar mileage. (And if they want to run even more, they can go to Southern Utah and train with Cam Levins. )

[Marlow]

And leading up to the Olympics, Mo and Galen were running 135-145 miles/week including 30-35 on underwater treadmill. That's not far from what top Kenyans are allegedly running.

Except that those extra solid-ground miles add up, week after week. Those that survive have tougher legs, those that don't, disappear. The smart, long-term money is on Alberto's program. But if you want some spectacular successes, throw a ton of talent into the meat-grinder, and you'll have some come out the other side, Prime Grade-A Beef.

[Conor Dary]

And leading up to the Olympics, Mo and Galen were running 135-145 miles/week including 30-35 on underwater treadmill. That's not far from what top Kenyans are allegedly running.

Except that those extra solid-ground miles add up, week after week. Those that survive have tougher legs, those that don't, disappear. The smart, long-term money is on Alberto's program. But if you want some spectacular successes, throw a ton of talent into the meat-grinder, and you'll have some come out the other side, Prime Grade-A Beef.

It is hard to compare the two at this point, since it is pretty obvious the Kenyans are much more into the marathon for obvious reasons.

[MightyBurner]

I thought Kenyans ran relatively low mileage? That's what Lagat does, and I think I've heard about a few others who train similarly.

[Barto]

Bernard was never a "Kenyan" runner.

[MightyBurner]

I read that Geoffrey Mutai runs 110-125 a week. That's not a lot for a marathoner.

[deuch]

from home-page-linked article:

The Government and Athletics Kenya (AK) have been asked to put in place measures of restricting foreign athletes training in Kenya. Team Kenya athletics head coach Julius Kirwa said this will protect the country’s runners from learning Kenya’s tactics.

I'm sorry, but this guy is clueless. He should be inviting the world's best to come train with the Kenyans so he can see what THEY are doing. I'm pretty sure the Kenyans did not sweep all the distance events despite having arguably the world's best athletes.
He's got the horses - he's the one who could use some cross-pollination of training practices.

I doubt he is clueless at all, they are simply using distraction tactics to avoid painful decisions. Not uncommon in other national governing bodies.