¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08


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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:37 pm

Randy Treadway wrote:The IAAF can just DQ him for blatant fouls during the race, and keep things nice and tidy for anything that might come later.

How long does an athlete (or their coaches) have to file an official protest? And if one is filed, will the London website post anything saying that the results are "under review" ?


30 mins. I'd be shocked if there's been a protest filed by anyone if we haven't heard of it.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:45 pm

People keep talking on here about "blatant fouls". I did not see anything that (to me) warrants expulsion from the race. I saw him get pushed earlier in the race, I also saw him get pushed and elbowed with about 450 meters to go, and yes he did break through fighting for position with about a lap to go but that did not appear to be a blatant foul where he will be disqualified and I don't see how anyone was impeded by the actions you are discussing. So I think all you who are crying foul need to give it a rest. He was the strongest and fastest today and won fair and square so get over it.
Last edited by odelltrclan on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby hc10003 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:07 pm

odelltrclan wrote: I did not see anything that to me warrants expulsion from the race.


Agree, just normal racing for a tight middle distance race. Also don't understand some of the surprise expressed in the thread. The TFN form chart had him 5th, which becomes 4th when the injury removed Kiprop from the top tier. So he finished three places above the experts' predictions, hardly a drastic upset (we've already had two winners from #9 in the form charts). So not predicted, but not shocking either from the pre-meet forecasts.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby lovetorun » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:30 pm

I'm really puzzled by Willis's race...he seemed perfectly poised to medal and possibly win...and has a great big meet record. Anyone know what happened?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Randy Treadway » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:41 pm

When was the last time that Kenyan OG performances in the middle- and distance races looked so bleak? 1964 perhaps?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Master Po » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:59 pm

hc10003 wrote: ...don't understand some of the surprise expressed in the thread. The TFN form chart had him 5th, which becomes 4th when the injury removed Kiprop from the top tier. So he finished three places above the experts' predictions, hardly a drastic upset (we've already had two winners from #9 in the form charts). So not predicted, but not shocking either from the pre-meet forecasts.


Agree w hc10003.

Thanks gh for regulating this thread in the midst of everything else. I am not a Makhloufi "fan." I was hoping for Kiprop, Willis, & a dead heat between Centro and Manzano so they would each get a bronze medal. Wouldn't have been any weirder than what turned out. But Makhloufi did win, & until someone comes up with something a whole lot better than sentiments such as expressed above -- i.e., people from his region can't be trusted, others from his nation/region/group have cheated, etc. -- he's the winner.

hc10003 points out where Makhloufi was on the formchart. What's more, when one takes Kiprop out, Makhloufi had by a significant margin the fastest 800m PB in the race. Not hard to figure out a possible outcome when everyone runs more than half the race at a pace anyone in the field can handle, and one of the 11 (Kiprop aside) has a much faster 800. You might just be handing the race to him. And he took it. He ran very confidently through the rounds, and seemed to be emphatic about finishing first in his heats, rather than just moving on. And he ran very confidently in the final, to put it mildly. There were, mind you, two other 3:29 Kenyans in that race who ran, well, very timidly.

Worth regarding the semifinal times in relation to the final, too. Gold & silver medalists, 5th & 6th (& Kiprop) got through running 3:42-3:43. Most of the other 7 finalists had to run 3:33-3:34 (I think the last 2 ran 3:35) to get to the final. I know these guys are all incredibly fit & fantastically talented, but it has to be better to get through running 8-9 seconds slower if you can.

In any case, it seemed like no one knew what to do without Kiprop as the man to key off of & to respond to. Makes sense, as he was the odds on favorite all the way leading up to this final, and I would guess that most of these guys knew that if Kiprop was ready, he was going to win, which made the strategy one of trying to figure out silver and bronze. Perhaps, as telf (above) suggests, Maklhoufi may have actually thought he could beat Kiprop in any case, and was ready to throw caution to the wind to do so. Makhloufi ran every race in this event as if he wanted to prove he was the best runner out there. Turns out, with Kiprop going out, he was.

(Actually, Makhloufi kind of reminds me of Alan Webb from a few years ago -- a 1:43.xx/3:30.xx guy with explosive speed and more muscles than one might actually need for the 1500...but with a bit more racing confidence than AW displayed.) :D
Last edited by Master Po on Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:00 pm

Randy Treadway wrote:When was the last time that Kenyan OG performances in the middle- and distance races looked so bleak? 1964 perhaps?


'84
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Master Po » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:06 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
Randy Treadway wrote:When was the last time that Kenyan OG performances in the middle- and distance races looked so bleak? 1964 perhaps?


'84


Hmmm, good point, Dutra. And what did the Kenyans do in response to that crisis? They gave pretty much everyone in the world except the Ethiopians, El G, & Morceli a 25 year distance running asskicking. Perhaps the next 25 years will look like...? :D
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:12 pm

Master Po wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
Randy Treadway wrote:When was the last time that Kenyan OG performances in the middle- and distance races looked so bleak? 1964 perhaps?


'84


Hmmm, good point, Dutra. And what did the Kenyans do in response to that crisis? They gave pretty much everyone in the world except the Ethiopians, El G, & Morceli a 25 year distance running asskicking. Perhaps the next 25 years will look like...? :D


From a US perspective let's hope not. The '84 team was coming off consecutive boycotts so they had lost just a bit of momentum from 72
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Master Po » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:35 pm

Agree w you, Dutra. I would like to think that the successes, both in terms of medals and other top performances, will help in some way USA's distance running development. Given the way in which Kenyan and Ethiopian excellence is so dominant, and has been for a while, a little bit of progress in relation to those two powers might still seem like nothing, especially in a sports culture (USA's) that pretty much expects dominance from its athletes and teams. But in fact, in the past decade, the only distance running nation after Kenya and Ethiopia that has made any consistent progress at all is the USA. If one looks at national all-time lists across a range of distance events, for nations that in the 70s, 80s, and 90s used to provide some distance running excellence -- for most of those nations, their own all-time lists have hardly changed in the last decade or so. So, it isn't just the case that the world isn't keeping pace with the Kenyans and Ethiopians. Most countries that used to have some distance talent/excellence haven't kept pace with their own histories. A really good case in point right now is Japan, where this has become kind of a big deal, because of the prominence long-distance running has in that culture. But there are other nations, too, where the distance talent seems to have pretty much disappeared. The USA is a notable exception. There are more "dynamic" all-time lists (i.e., more recent performances rather than older ones) in most of its distance events in the past decade, and now some medalists and some other top finishes to show. Perhaps it help a bit, going forward.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby bushop » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:55 pm

cubop wrote:JLT wrote
"Well GH I think people are responding quite reasonably to the facts that we were uncomfortable with what we were seeing with Siedi-Sief, we were uncomfortable with what we were seeing with Brahim Boulami, we were uncomfortable with Mohammed Mourhit, then Rashid Ramzi, not to mention Adil Kouiche"
I agree in toto.'.

I'm not sure I've seen anyone dispute the facts... none of those runners were in this race so bringing their names to the thread does nothing but raise the PED issue... which is what we've been asked not to do many times on many threads.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby hc10003 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:06 pm

Master Po wrote:If one looks at national all-time lists across a range of distance events, for nations that in the 70s, 80s, and 90s used to provide some distance running excellence -- for most of those nations, their own all-time lists have hardly changed in the last decade or so. So, it isn't just the case that the world isn't keeping pace with the Kenyans and Ethiopians. Most countries that used to have some distance talent/excellence haven't kept pace with their own histories. A really good case in point right now is Japan


A bit off topic here, but since you raised the issue: two I've really wondered about are Italy (Antibo, Cova, Panetta) and Portugal (Lopes, Mamede, the Castros). These nations were dominant distance forces -- what happened? I'd bet those guys are still top 5 on their nations' 5k and 10k lists. Declining popularity of the sport? Economic troubles? Or was that cohort in the 80's just ahead of their time?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:09 pm

Anyone find it a little odd that Manzano raised his hand at the finish line with a single finger raised as in #1! Did he miss the guy far to his left in lane 1?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Gebrucilassie » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:10 pm

I was surprised by the results but was really happy to see that "Good Leo" showed up for the final. :D I thought for a few seconds that we might end up with Silver AND Bronze, but Cento still ran a very good race for a 22 year old.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby BillVol » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:24 pm

odelltrclan wrote:Anyone find it a little odd that Manzano raised his hand at the finish line with a single finger raised as in #1! Did he miss the guy far to his left in lane 1?


Not at all. He broke through a major barrier for US runners. I didn't have a number one up as he finished but I was pumping my fist and screaming YES!
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby aaronk » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:44 pm

Putting aside names and medals for a moment, this was yet another "tactical" "strategic" race in the middle/long distances.
While some may view a 3:34 as "fast", especially for a Championship race, I don't!1
It's slow!!
After a first lap in 58.3, I thought if they keep on that pace through 800 or 1000, the OR is gone!!
But they slowed to 60+ for the 2nd lap.
With 1:58+ for 800, to get 3:32, they'd need to run the final 700 in 1:34.
That's maybe a 1:48 pace for 800.
The only other time I remember someone running that pace was Pekka Vasela in 1972, when he burned the final 800 in 1:46!!!
Some of those guys had never broken 1:46 in an open 800, let alone in the final 800 of a 1500.
Bye Bye new OR!!!
:x
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:50 pm

aaronk wrote:That's maybe a 1:48 pace for 800.
The only other time I remember someone running that pace was Pekka Vasela in 1972, when he burned the final 800 in 1:46!!!


Then you have a bad memory.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby bman » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:57 pm

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/248216 ... lver-medal

Leo has done it for us. And Centro. As one of the flo guys said after the 10k, rain to the desert that is US distance running.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Randy Treadway » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:00 pm

Master Po wrote:Most countries that used to have some distance talent/excellence haven't kept pace with their own histories.


One need look no further than the host country, Great Britain... at least on the men's side.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby aaronk » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:01 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:That's maybe a 1:48 pace for 800.
The only other time I remember someone running that pace was Pekka Vasela in 1972, when he burned the final 800 in 1:46!!!


Then you have a bad memory.


Please refresh my (ageing) memory!!
When else has anyone ever run 1:46 for the final 800 of a Championships 1500 race, no matter how slow the first 700??
I think I recall one or two in the 1:50 range....maybe even 1:49.5......but never anything near 1:46!!
That was phenomenal!!! (And Vasela's overall time was 3:36, so he hit his first 700 in 1:50!!)
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:02 pm

BillVol wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:Anyone find it a little odd that Manzano raised his hand at the finish line with a single finger raised as in #1! Did he miss the guy far to his left in lane 1?


Not at all. He broke through a major barrier for US runners. I didn't have a number one up as he finished but I was pumping my fist and screaming YES!


Well, Centro won a medal in the WC last year so who broke through first? Either way, it was a great race for Manzano. Surprising to be sure because you never know which Manzano is going to show up.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby bman » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:35 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HsWDpk3ZhA

Good for Algeria. We've won over sixty medals and I am going nuts for a silver, this is more or less it for them.

The way the race transpired was perfect for Makloufi, ie good for a kick from 400, and perfect as well for Manzano, ie slow but with open space as a result of guys trying to kick from 400. If Makloufi wouldn't have gone so ridiculously fast the guys wouldn't have died at the end like they did. And if the pace early in the race would have been faster Leo would have been way out of it.

Amazes me that the Kenyans don't just take turns setting a blisteringly fast pace.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby kevinsdad » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:56 pm

aaronk wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
Please refresh my (ageing) memory!!
When else has anyone ever run 1:46 for the final 800 of a Championships 1500 race, no matter how slow the first 700??


Seriously? You can remember 1972 (wrongly-Vasala ran about 1:48:8 last 800) but not all three medalists in 2004?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby EPelle » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:20 pm

aaronk wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:That's maybe a 1:48 pace for 800.
The only other time I remember someone running that pace was Pekka Vasela in 1972, when he burned the final 800 in 1:46!!!


Then you have a bad memory.


Please refresh my (ageing) memory!!
When else has anyone ever run 1:46 for the final 800 of a Championships 1500 race, no matter how slow the first 700??

2004. El Guerrouj. Lagat. Silva. Also, Abdi Bile's 1987 WC victory.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Vault-emort » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:38 pm

lovetorun wrote:I'm really puzzled by Willis's race...he seemed perfectly poised to medal and possibly win...and has a great big meet record. Anyone know what happened?

He said on Twitter afterwards that "on reflection my poor performance wasn't likely a miss-timed (sic) peak, but inability to recover from rounds. How to fix that is the Q" :o
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby aaronk » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:02 am

kevinsdad wrote:
aaronk wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
Please refresh my (ageing) memory!!
When else has anyone ever run 1:46 for the final 800 of a Championships 1500 race, no matter how slow the first 700??


Seriously? You can remember 1972 (wrongly-Vasala ran about 1:48:8 last 800) but not all three medalists in 2004?


I no longer own the 1972 Olympics issue of T&FN, but I'll have to do some research, because I'm certain I read of that 1:46 finish of Vasela in the pages of that issue of T&FN!!!
I remember being totally STUNNED by the report!!
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:09 am

At any rate, you needn't revert back to 1972. Athens had El G and Lagat both close in 1.46,7. Even more astonishing was that Silva closed in 1.46,3. Abdi Bile closed the '87 World Champs in 1.46,9
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby j-a-m » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:43 am

odelltrclan wrote:People keep talking on here about "blatant fouls". I did not see anything that (to me) warrants expulsion from the race.

Just watched the race again. When he made his move, there were two situations where he fought his way through a couple other runners. Both seemed fine, though, and if there was a blatant foul I wasn't able to find it.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby j-a-m » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:45 am

odelltrclan wrote:Anyone find it a little odd that Manzano raised his hand at the finish line with a single finger raised as in #1! Did he miss the guy far to his left in lane 1?

May have just pointed towards the sky.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby j-a-m » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:50 am

Weights&Shoes wrote:1 - He was far from that lead group of 4 coming around the last 200.

Just watched the race again, and looked specifically at the gap between Centro and the guy who ended up winning bronze, and that gap was still reasonable. Don't think Centro let him get too far away; didn't quite catch him in the end, but it was fine in terms of tactics.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby j-a-m » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:53 am

TN1965 wrote:But his ability to peak for the big meet is remarkable. I look forward to seeing what he can do next year.

Yes; and he repeated last year's performance in that only two runners from other countries finished ahead of him. Only difference is that this time there was a teammate ahead of him as well. As long as Centro lets only two runners from other countries finish ahead of him, the U.S. will keep winning medals.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby liuxuan » Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:26 am

the feeling I got watching him accelerate down the back straight took me back to the same feeling I got watching the last lap of the Womens 3,000m at the 2001 World Indoor Championships - anyone agree?? it certainly looked impressive..........
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby CKuykendall » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:23 am

aaronk wrote:I no longer own the 1972 Olympics issue of T&FN, but I'll have to do some research, because I'm certain I read of that 1:46 finish of Vasela in the pages of that issue of T&FN!!! I remember being totally STUNNED by the report!!

The Munich Olympics issue of T&FN, September 1972, pages 22-23, says Vasala ran the last 400 in 53.4 and the last 800 in 1:49.0. The story on the race was written by Cordner Nelson. David Wallechinsky and Jaime Loucky, in The Complete Book of the Olympics, 1968 edition, page 105, perhaps drawing from the T&FN piece, also have 1:49.0.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby catson52 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:04 am

A close look at the video of the Munich race shows that Vasala ran 1:49.0, give or take 0.1, from 700m to the finish.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby asindc » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:10 am

Congrats to Leo for his silver medal! Well deserved. And a thumbs-up and job-well-done to Centro. I thought he ran a smart (though not perfect) race and should feel good about the way he ran, even though finishing 4th has to sting. I'm pleased to see US distance runners finally (Finally!!) running like they sincerely want to compete.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Dutra5 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:35 am

aaronk wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:That's maybe a 1:48 pace for 800.
The only other time I remember someone running that pace was Pekka Vasela in 1972, when he burned the final 800 in 1:46!!!


Then you have a bad memory.


Please refresh my (ageing) memory!!
When else has anyone ever run 1:46 for the final 800 of a Championships 1500 race, no matter how slow the first 700??
I think I recall one or two in the 1:50 range....maybe even 1:49.5......but never anything near 1:46!!
That was phenomenal!!! (And Vasela's overall time was 3:36, so he hit his first 700 in 1:50!!)


I see others have chimed in but other than being incorrect regarding Vasala and not recalling faster, more recent runs for home it appears you're memory bank is not up to par.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby bruce3404 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:18 am

ExCoastRanger wrote:
1fastrunner wrote:A USA runner won the silver, right? Did USA file a protest?


A DQ of the winner would give the USA a bronze, too, but I don't see any protest filed by U.S. coaches.


I saw the race live and just watched the replay. No way was there a foul. Yeah, he shoved a bit and threw a forearm but that's an incidental part of racing. Had it occurred in the last 100 meters, they might have taken a closer look, but with a lap to go that's just part of what goes on in a tightly bunched pack.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Dutra5 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:26 am

There was no foul. There was some bumping and pushing but I thought Kiplagat was trying to block him in both instances and cut in too soon anyway.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby jeremyp » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:32 am

user4 wrote:
Master Po wrote:I know I should be thrilled at Manzano's silver and Centro's 4th, and I guess I am, but I just felt bad seeing Kiprop trailing the field. As much as we all cheer for our own, whoever they are, no one wants to see that, I would think.


When you are as thrilled to see Manzano get silver as I am you fail to even see "that" ... This is the happiest day of my 1500m viewing career !!!

I missed the whole thing due to computer malfunction but got to stay up until near midnight to see it on NBC. I was stunned to see Manzano screaming down the stretch, those little legs a blur, and getting silver. This ranks with Rupp getting his silver for me! I do wonder if Leo left it too late and had he been nearer the front he might have challenged the Algerian more in the end. Still it's great. Too bad NBC did not see fit to interview him, or Pearson.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby aaronk » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:42 am

To all those who corrected my mistake about Vasala's last 800 in Munich....thank you!!
It appears that his 1:49 (as noted above by someone) turned into a 1:46 in my mind.
That 1:49 was stupendous then. And yes, I do NOT remember anyone before then going sub-1:50, so unless my memory is TOTALLY shot ( :( ), his 1:49 WAS shocking enough that, as some people do.........I tended to embellish that over the years into a 1:46!!
Sorry, but thanks again for the corrections!!!
Last edited by aaronk on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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