¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08


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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby bobguild76 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:24 pm

Great analysis by Master Po! I agree, Centro ran a perfect race ... until the bell. Even then, he is so smooth, he got out of trouble without too much effort. But when Manzano passed him, he hesitated to go with him, and that made all the difference. Awesome race by Manzano!! He can drive us nuts, but he has such speed!

The real stud, of course, was Makhloufi. His acceleration was incredible, and he held form all the way home. Plus he & Manzano only had 3:42s in their legs from the semi, not the 3:34s Iguider & Centro had. For the sake of the sport, I hope he raced clean. It will be interesting to see what happens regarding his shoving to get through. Not quite as blatant as Rodriguez in the W1500 at Berlin, and it didn't seem to disrupt Centro too much ... but it was right at the border of what is acceptable.

I'm surprised at Willis. He is usually so fit and tactically sound. I will be interested to hear his post race comments. And all 5 Kenyan born runners in the back half?! Yikes! I would love to have seen a totally fit & confident Kiprop. Maybe next year at the WC.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby cladthin » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:31 pm

Willis did surprise me, too. Though he was obviously boxed in for a while, he seemed to have 2-3 opportunities to get out and run wide but he elected to keep falling back late then try to move. I don't understand what he was thinking.

Nice race by Manzano and Centro. Manzano did not look very sharp in the race(s) I saw between the OT and the OG so it was good to see him rebound. What was the comment from the Kenyan coach about them winning so many medals here? They've been a big disappointment.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Master Po » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:32 pm

uakari wrote:what's coe's distaste for the winner?


Lord Coe doesn't confide in me, but in my interpretation of the comments, it seemed very much frustration that the top runners (Kenyans, Willis) let it develop the way it did and let Makhloufi get away.

I don't know any more about Makhloufi than what's on all-athletics.com (and I doubt if most of us reading this thread do at this point), but he was a 3:34 guy by 2009, and had 3:32 & 3:33 on his resume before his 3:30.80 in Monaco earlier this summer. He competed at 1500 in both Berlin and Daegu (sf both), won the African championships 800 earlier this year (1:43.88), and did an 800/1500 double (1st, 3rd) at the All-Africa Games last year. So, he's got some championship experience, and some of it successful. And, he has a faster 800m PB than most of the guys in this field.

And, given the schedule of these OG, it's no great mystery at least for me that (as reported) he didn't want to run both the 800 & 1500 -- I don't think he would have had that 3:34 in him today if he had just run an 800 sf an hour earlier.
Last edited by Master Po on Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby user4 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:34 pm

Master Po wrote:I know I should be thrilled at Manzano's silver and Centro's 4th, and I guess I am, but I just felt bad seeing Kiprop trailing the field. As much as we all cheer for our own, whoever they are, no one wants to see that, I would think.


When you are as thrilled to see Manzano get silver as I am you fail to even see "that" ... This is the happiest day of my 1500m viewing career !!!
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby gh » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:02 pm

congrats to the 3 of you who have (so far) earned bans for your commentary on this thread. Anybody wanna try for 4?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby errolM » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:06 pm

pakillo wrote:Ingebrigtsen totally confirmed his European title.


Agree, he's going to get better too. Needs more experience and race savvy, but that will come.

Very impressed. Apparently his kid brothers are pretty useful too.
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Re: 2012 OG: m1500–

Postby Marlow » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:10 pm

j-a-m wrote:Difficult to recognize the U.S. runners, wearing all red and no blue. Doesn't help that they are way behind.

Or not . . . :wink:
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby TN1965 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:10 pm

Centro needs to learn how to lean at the finish, and more importantly, how not to bang his knee to a table.

But his ability to peak for the big meet is remarkable. I look forward to seeing what he can do next year.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby bobguild76 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:11 pm

gh wrote:congrats to the 3 of you who have (so far) earned bans for your commentary on this thread. Anybody wanna try for 4?


Yikes! You have the best "job" in the world ... T&FN, plus "suffering" through another awesome Olympics in person. And then you gotta go check the threads for every event and delete the unacceptable. I hope you have a good staff working with you. :D

I love these event forums. Track & Field fans are the best and most knowledgable in all of sports. I love the back and forth comments and analyses of the various events. Thanks gh for the work you put into this!
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Re: 2012 OG: m1500–

Postby MightyBurner » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:11 pm

dj wrote:
MightyBurner wrote:God, Leo Manzano is infuriating.


Sometimes "infuriating" hides a certain genius! :)

(Apologies in advance if this sounds snarky, it's not meant to. I just found the comment as I was scrolling through.)

Oh, I know. Now I'm irked for a different reason. Leo Manzano, living the American dream.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby cladthin » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:12 pm

errolM wrote:
pakillo wrote:Ingebrigtsen totally confirmed his European title.


Agree, he's going to get better too. Needs more experience and race savvy, but that will come.

Very impressed. Apparently his kid brothers are pretty useful too.


His close was very impressive just ran out of room to have a chance for some hardware.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby 1fastrunner » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:14 pm

So what's up with a possible DQ? Do they wait until the games are over? Track stewards at Santa Anita would have had that nag down in less than a minute.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby telf » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:36 pm

I have been aware of Makhloufi for quite a few years and I considered him very progressive to the end of '11.

Throughout '09, '10 and to September '11 he was continually (but slowly) improving despite injuries but I believed that he lacked the basic speed and the required change of pace to ever be a championship 1500m runner. I thought he would eventually end up as a world class 5k and maybe10k runner given his youthful promise at longer distances.

When he beat the Kenyans and won the All African games 800m in Mozambique at the beginning of September '11 he had clearly worked hard on his basic speed and this new found speed was fabulously re-enforced by the 1.43.88 win in Porto Novo at the end of June '12.

Makhloufi was by now a very different athlete than the man (22) who finished down the field (3.32.9) in Monaco in '10 and I was pretty excited about how fast he was going to run when back at 1500m in '12 and I admit I was very disappointed when he finished 5th in Monaco on July 20.

I thought he'd run 3.28 and would comfortably beat Kiprop so 3.30.8 was really disappointing! I knew he could and would go much faster and place much higher in a slowly run race.

Not wanting to aftertime or be boastful, I tried really hard to get betting odds for the Olympic 1500m but because there was no strong British interest in the event it was difficult to get any bookmaker to give a price in advance of the heats but eventually the world's largest betting exchange provided some prices and I managed to get 100/1, 66/1 and 50/1.

The point of the above is not to relate my good fortune rather it is to evidence that whilst Makhloufi might not have had the fast times and championship form in the run up to London he was a rapidly improving runner who was certainly a very possible winner.
Last edited by telf on Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby 1fastrunner » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:37 pm

Didn't everyone see that fiasco in th 1500? what the hell does it take to be dq'd? Is there a statute of limitations on how fast a dq must take place? The video of that race has gone viral and another black eye for T&F
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby 1fastrunner » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:40 pm

TELF: it doesn't mean a darn thing if you like him or if he has been improving..fine..he has been improving...did you see the 1500 final? he needs to be dq'd!!!! no personal opinions need enter in to the discussion..case closed...thanks for coming..good night!!
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby 1fastrunner » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:42 pm

A USA runner won the silver, right? Did USA file a protest?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby telf » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:50 pm

Don't agree re the DQ....it was a rough race but no rougher than many championship races before.

I can remember Ovett opening a gap by prising the two runners ahead of him apart with both hands in order to sprint to victory.

Makhloufi was clearly the best runner on the day - like it or nor.

Where his new speed came from is a very good question but it is not without precedence although the similarities to Ramzi are a little off putting.

From my perspective he has significantly improved which young, unexposed and inexperienced athletes often do and that will remain my position until there is irrefutable evidence to the contrary.
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Re: 2012 OG: m1500–Iguider (Mor) leads semis in 3:33.99

Postby Alan Shank » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:07 pm

Weights&Shoes wrote:And the controversy continues......

Glad Manzano got the silver, wish Matty had more room to get the bronze.


He had 1500 meters, same as the rest.
Great run by Manzano!
The Kenyans were talking sweep last week. Another lesson; keep your mouth shut about what IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby gh » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:20 pm

gh wrote:congrats to the 3 of you who have (so far) earned bans for your commentary on this thread. Anybody wanna try for 4?


And now we're at a half-dozen.... has mass stupidity gone viral while I'm gone?

I'd love to say I could do this all night long, but hey, it's 0:00:30 here on the other side of the planet I have a meet to annonce early tomorrow morning.

A short trigger finger is the order of the day here.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby ExCoastRanger » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:23 pm

1fastrunner wrote:A USA runner won the silver, right? Did USA file a protest?


A DQ of the winner would give the USA a bronze, too, but I don't see any protest filed by U.S. coaches.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby 1fastrunner » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:24 pm

good night and good luck
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby BillVol » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:51 pm

Wow, just now reading the results. So proud of our mid-to-long distance guys and women. They have come a long way. I was starting to wonder if we could do it. Incredible! I've liked Leo for quite a while. Can't wait to see it tonight.
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Re: 2012 OG: m1500–Iguider (Mor) leads semis in 3:33.99

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:53 pm

Alan Shank wrote:
Weights&Shoes wrote:And the controversy continues......

Glad Manzano got the silver, wish Matty had more room to get the bronze.


He had 1500 meters, same as the rest.
Great run by Manzano!
The Kenyans were talking sweep last week. Another lesson; keep your mouth shut about what IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
Cheers,
Alan Shank


Three of four distance races done (for men) and result:

USA: 2 silvers
Kenya: 1 silver
Ethiopia: 1 bronze

I like the US chances in the 5k to finish the meet ahead of the two distance powerhouses for the men for the combined 1,500; steeple; 5,000 & 10,000. Who would have thunk it possible.

This has been a strange meet.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby hc10003 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:59 pm

odelltrclan wrote:Three of four distance races done (for men) and result:

USA: 2 silvers
Kenya: 1 silver
Ethiopia: 1 bronze


Doesn't Kenya have gold and bronze from steeple?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby LTS » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:36 pm

Let's see, first US men's 1500 Olympic medal since 1968? The best finish for the US since 1936 (tied)?

IT'S TIME TO CELEBRATE!!
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:39 pm

hc10003 wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:Three of four distance races done (for men) and result:

USA: 2 silvers
Kenya: 1 silver
Ethiopia: 1 bronze


Doesn't Kenya have gold and bronze from steeple?


Yes, must have pulled up the wrong race link. :oops: Crap, we are still going to lose to them! Lets go Lagat & Rupp!

USA: 2S
Kenya: 1G, 1B
Ethiopa: 1B
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby 1fastrunner » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:56 pm

Amen, brother....when will the shoe fall?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby pickle47 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:04 pm

Adios, amigo. Oh, gh went to bed. Well, later then....
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Randy Treadway » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:22 pm

The IAAF can just DQ him for blatant fouls during the race, and keep things nice and tidy for anything that might come later.

How long does an athlete (or their coaches) have to file an official protest? And if one is filed, will the London website post anything saying that the results are "under review" ?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby lonewolf » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:28 pm

I was pleased to see Manzano get up for silver. I have been a Leo admirer ever since I watched him come out of nowhere( well, actually Marble Falls, Texas) to run 4:02 mile as a HS junior (?) at the Texas Relays.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:37 pm

Randy Treadway wrote:The IAAF can just DQ him for blatant fouls during the race, and keep things nice and tidy for anything that might come later.

How long does an athlete (or their coaches) have to file an official protest? And if one is filed, will the London website post anything saying that the results are "under review" ?


30 mins. I'd be shocked if there's been a protest filed by anyone if we haven't heard of it.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:45 pm

People keep talking on here about "blatant fouls". I did not see anything that (to me) warrants expulsion from the race. I saw him get pushed earlier in the race, I also saw him get pushed and elbowed with about 450 meters to go, and yes he did break through fighting for position with about a lap to go but that did not appear to be a blatant foul where he will be disqualified and I don't see how anyone was impeded by the actions you are discussing. So I think all you who are crying foul need to give it a rest. He was the strongest and fastest today and won fair and square so get over it.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby hc10003 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:07 pm

odelltrclan wrote: I did not see anything that to me warrants expulsion from the race.


Agree, just normal racing for a tight middle distance race. Also don't understand some of the surprise expressed in the thread. The TFN form chart had him 5th, which becomes 4th when the injury removed Kiprop from the top tier. So he finished three places above the experts' predictions, hardly a drastic upset (we've already had two winners from #9 in the form charts). So not predicted, but not shocking either from the pre-meet forecasts.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby lovetorun » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:30 pm

I'm really puzzled by Willis's race...he seemed perfectly poised to medal and possibly win...and has a great big meet record. Anyone know what happened?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Randy Treadway » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:41 pm

When was the last time that Kenyan OG performances in the middle- and distance races looked so bleak? 1964 perhaps?
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Master Po » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:59 pm

hc10003 wrote: ...don't understand some of the surprise expressed in the thread. The TFN form chart had him 5th, which becomes 4th when the injury removed Kiprop from the top tier. So he finished three places above the experts' predictions, hardly a drastic upset (we've already had two winners from #9 in the form charts). So not predicted, but not shocking either from the pre-meet forecasts.


Agree w hc10003.

Thanks gh for regulating this thread in the midst of everything else. I am not a Makhloufi "fan." I was hoping for Kiprop, Willis, & a dead heat between Centro and Manzano so they would each get a bronze medal. Wouldn't have been any weirder than what turned out. But Makhloufi did win, & until someone comes up with something a whole lot better than sentiments such as expressed above -- i.e., people from his region can't be trusted, others from his nation/region/group have cheated, etc. -- he's the winner.

hc10003 points out where Makhloufi was on the formchart. What's more, when one takes Kiprop out, Makhloufi had by a significant margin the fastest 800m PB in the race. Not hard to figure out a possible outcome when everyone runs more than half the race at a pace anyone in the field can handle, and one of the 11 (Kiprop aside) has a much faster 800. You might just be handing the race to him. And he took it. He ran very confidently through the rounds, and seemed to be emphatic about finishing first in his heats, rather than just moving on. And he ran very confidently in the final, to put it mildly. There were, mind you, two other 3:29 Kenyans in that race who ran, well, very timidly.

Worth regarding the semifinal times in relation to the final, too. Gold & silver medalists, 5th & 6th (& Kiprop) got through running 3:42-3:43. Most of the other 7 finalists had to run 3:33-3:34 (I think the last 2 ran 3:35) to get to the final. I know these guys are all incredibly fit & fantastically talented, but it has to be better to get through running 8-9 seconds slower if you can.

In any case, it seemed like no one knew what to do without Kiprop as the man to key off of & to respond to. Makes sense, as he was the odds on favorite all the way leading up to this final, and I would guess that most of these guys knew that if Kiprop was ready, he was going to win, which made the strategy one of trying to figure out silver and bronze. Perhaps, as telf (above) suggests, Maklhoufi may have actually thought he could beat Kiprop in any case, and was ready to throw caution to the wind to do so. Makhloufi ran every race in this event as if he wanted to prove he was the best runner out there. Turns out, with Kiprop going out, he was.

(Actually, Makhloufi kind of reminds me of Alan Webb from a few years ago -- a 1:43.xx/3:30.xx guy with explosive speed and more muscles than one might actually need for the 1500...but with a bit more racing confidence than AW displayed.) :D
Last edited by Master Po on Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:00 pm

Randy Treadway wrote:When was the last time that Kenyan OG performances in the middle- and distance races looked so bleak? 1964 perhaps?


'84
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Master Po » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:06 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
Randy Treadway wrote:When was the last time that Kenyan OG performances in the middle- and distance races looked so bleak? 1964 perhaps?


'84


Hmmm, good point, Dutra. And what did the Kenyans do in response to that crisis? They gave pretty much everyone in the world except the Ethiopians, El G, & Morceli a 25 year distance running asskicking. Perhaps the next 25 years will look like...? :D
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:12 pm

Master Po wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
Randy Treadway wrote:When was the last time that Kenyan OG performances in the middle- and distance races looked so bleak? 1964 perhaps?


'84


Hmmm, good point, Dutra. And what did the Kenyans do in response to that crisis? They gave pretty much everyone in the world except the Ethiopians, El G, & Morceli a 25 year distance running asskicking. Perhaps the next 25 years will look like...? :D


From a US perspective let's hope not. The '84 team was coming off consecutive boycotts so they had lost just a bit of momentum from 72
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Re: ¶2012 OG: m1500–Taoufik Makhloufi (Algeria) 3:34.08

Postby Master Po » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:35 pm

Agree w you, Dutra. I would like to think that the successes, both in terms of medals and other top performances, will help in some way USA's distance running development. Given the way in which Kenyan and Ethiopian excellence is so dominant, and has been for a while, a little bit of progress in relation to those two powers might still seem like nothing, especially in a sports culture (USA's) that pretty much expects dominance from its athletes and teams. But in fact, in the past decade, the only distance running nation after Kenya and Ethiopia that has made any consistent progress at all is the USA. If one looks at national all-time lists across a range of distance events, for nations that in the 70s, 80s, and 90s used to provide some distance running excellence -- for most of those nations, their own all-time lists have hardly changed in the last decade or so. So, it isn't just the case that the world isn't keeping pace with the Kenyans and Ethiopians. Most countries that used to have some distance talent/excellence haven't kept pace with their own histories. A really good case in point right now is Japan, where this has become kind of a big deal, because of the prominence long-distance running has in that culture. But there are other nations, too, where the distance talent seems to have pretty much disappeared. The USA is a notable exception. There are more "dynamic" all-time lists (i.e., more recent performances rather than older ones) in most of its distance events in the past decade, and now some medalists and some other top finishes to show. Perhaps it help a bit, going forward.
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