guru wrote: Simple - a 50.79 400 runner ran 49.14 relay leg - ie 4x400 "racing benefit". Nothing explains it better than that.
Now I know you're just being funny, because you're too smart to really believe something that simplistic. That sounds like something that someone who just started following track a month ago would say.
I'll take that to mean you think Beard runs that leg in 49.14 regardless of the situation. Okie doke.
That's the great thing about being an American - everyone is entitled to their opinion
guru wrote: Simple - a 50.79 400 runner ran 49.14 relay leg - ie 4x400 "racing benefit". Nothing explains it better than that.
Now I know you're just being funny, because you're too smart to really believe something that simplistic. That sounds like something that someone who just started following track a month ago would say.
I'll take that to mean you think Beard runs that leg in 49.14 regardless of the situation. Okie doke.
That's the great thing about being an American - everyone is entitled to their opinion
Whilst I fully follow Mark's stats normally, somewhere along the line the GBR splits don't add up. Think Jack Green has a second too much time, as the final time is less than the sum of the splits, and the others are pretty much bang on the official splits, whereas his is over a second out
jjimbojames wrote:Whilst I fully follow Mark's stats normally, somewhere along the line the GBR splits don't add up. Think Jack Green has a second too much time, as the final time is less than the sum of the splits, and the others are pretty much bang on the official splits, whereas his is over a second out
i was just about the say the same thing
Green ran 44.8 not 45.9
I'll be having a word with mr butler !!
4, 2:59.53 GBR Conrad Williams 45.1, Jack Green 44.8, David Greene 45.53, Martyn Rooney 44.09 adds up properly
For those on Taylor's case, this was his first Olympic anchor leg. This carries an enormous responsibility. He's run on fast teams, but he's not held the anchor position of any Olympic team. This isn't to suggest that he became totally unnerved. However, this is a fact which can't be overlooked.
ATK wrote:Angelo Taylor under performed, but would have lost regardless.
Underperformed is an understatement. 44.85? Jesus Christ!
When is the last time an anchor for an Amercian national team ran that slow at a global championship?
He was the last man standing.
And I don't get why anyone is surprised. Every run the last 2 monhts he has been dying in the last 100m. It is insanity to expect anything different.
I would have gone with a guy like Spearmon. He'd have been more fresh, and I suspect a bit quicker.
I'm not questioning Taylor's selection on the team. I know the bullpin was empty but it's still depressing. As for Spearmon, there's nothing he has done in the past in the open 400 or 4x400 to indicate he would have done any better.
ATK wrote:Angelo Taylor under performed, but would have lost regardless.
Underperformed is an understatement. 44.85? Jesus Christ!
When is the last time an anchor for an Amercian national team ran that slow at a global championship?
He was the last man standing.
And I don't get why anyone is surprised. Every run the last 2 monhts he has been dying in the last 100m. It is insanity to expect anything different.
I would have gone with a guy like Spearmon. He'd have been more fresh, and I suspect a bit quicker.
I'm not questioning Taylor's selection on the team. I know the bullpin was empty but it's still depressing. As for Spearmon, there's nothing he has done in the past in the open 400 or 4x400 to indicate he would have done any better.
ATK wrote:Angelo Taylor under performed, but would have lost regardless.
Underperformed is an understatement. 44.85? Jesus Christ!
When is the last time an anchor for an Amercian national team ran that slow at a global championship?
He was the last man standing.
And I don't get why anyone is surprised. Every run the last 2 monhts he has been dying in the last 100m. It is insanity to expect anything different.
I would have gone with a guy like Spearmon. He'd have been more fresh, and I suspect a bit quicker.
I'm not questioning Taylor's selection on the team. I know the bullpin was empty but it's still depressing. As for Spearmon, there's nothing he has done in the past in the open 400 or 4x400 to indicate he would have done any better.
I agree 100%. I don't think there was a better US team that could have been put on the track in the final. No argument could be made for Spearmon or Gay to kick off a 400/400h from the relay ever, even in the past IMO. Spearmon has a 45.2 from 2006, nothing else. Tyson Gay, has a 44.8 in 2010 but never was in good enough shape to prove he is 4x4 worthy in a championship.
Arguments for Tinsley could have been made, but they would have been speculation and assumption. Taylor has run sub 45 in May, and sub 48 in London. I'm pretty sure before the final no one was arguing Taylor's place on the relay. He just massively under performed. I thought the split was 44.6, but 44.8 just hurts even worse.
Mark Butlers Splits are completely inaccurate. Track and Field news should not post those as official splits because they are not. For example the trinidad and Tobago teams Offical splits per Omega clock were Gordon 45.1, Solomon 43.9, Alleyne Forte 45.5, Lendore 44.7. Those were directly from Omega after the race that they posted. Don't know why they came down, but those were the offical splits for that team as I know due to inside information... So Butler should not post stuff as official.
One comparison is possible for the two "competing" sets of splits - the ones GH posted show Trinidad with a substantial lead at the first pass. The ones listed by Omega show the first four very close, with Bahamas slightly ahead. A review of the video should give some idea which of those two is more correct.
I also note that for the Omega splits, most of the first two legs do not add properly to the 2-lap times they list.
As a big SoCal high school honk, I'm really interested in those first two legs for the USA. I would have thought (and hoped for) Nelloms a bit faster than 45.2 on his leg, as I'm not sure Mance has a 43.5 in him at this point in his career. (Still, there's something magical about second legs on the 4x400, as we've seen numerous times over the years.)
Last edited by cigar95 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
iain wrote:All of the Omega splits for legs 1 and 2 are rounded down eg 45.33 = 45.3 or 44.99 = 44.9
Omega could not possibly have splits for the first two legs unless they sat there with a stopwatch and timed them all. The would need eight extra cameras, each lined up at a different spot, to get auto splits for the first two legs.
After some days to marinate and think about this, I've come to the following conclusions:
1. This was the best team the US could trot out there, given who was available. Even with a healthy Wariner and Mitchell, this was still the best lineup. 2. Angelo was in the wrong spot; despite experience, he wasn't the fastest and hasn't been closing all that well in any hurdles race. The anchor should have been Tony McQuay. 3. To say that the US "lost" this race is tremendously disrespectful to the Bahamas, who flat out won it from them. The US ran the 14th fastest time in history. 4. A healthy Merritt would have made this a US victory. 5. In terms of what it means, it means very little. It shows that Bahamas has some serious talent and other countries must not be considered credible threats, but like the US loss in Tokyo, it does not portend anything.
Perhaps they threw the anchor at him due to 'experience'. Though experience has nothing to do with taking off, hugging the turn and bringing it home. Its not like he was weaving thorugh an asteroid belt. In this case experience meant old. And old means "not as good as I once was, and not as good once, as I ever was".
Given his last few months, where he was clearly searching for something that wasn't there anymore, I'd have put him in first leg, which can make it a 390 leg if necessary, and give him some relief.
In the end it may be like shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. The Bahamas team ran fast, and this team ran as fast as it could. Taylor wasn't the weakest link. He was just the unfortunate who couldn't match the guy on his leg.
