radcliffe pulls out of olympic marathon

[26mi235]

PR who admittedly...

I glad you admit it; I do not think that is her language, so she isn't admitting that. Saying you were better before is not the same as saying you are over the hill. You need to be much more precise in how you use the vernacular.

[Alan Shank]

Despite her inability to win an Olympic title, she won the WC in 2005, and several major Marathons in her career; was a world record half marathon holder, a double World cross country winner, a 30 minute 10K performer; a great professional and committed, clean athlete, and one fully expected the put down on this particular Forum by at least one poster.

At the time that she ran that 30:01.09, in the 2002 Europeans, the next best time ever run (excluding Wang, of course) was 30:17.49 by Derartu Tulu in the Sydney Games. (We all note that the All-Time lists given in T&F News's event previews do not include the performances from the '93 and '97 Chinese National Games.) Despite her lack of "turn of speed", she also ran a 5000 in 14:29.11 (European Cup '04) that was, at the time, the 2nd-fastest ever run outside China. Against European opposition on the track, she could run away from the opposition. In global track competition, she dragged quite a few runners to PBs in her day! She finally moved up to a distance at which she could put the race away before the end against anyone in the world. As often happens, the training necessary to reach and maintain that kind of condition took its toll.

I think the worth of her marathon record is aptly demonstrated by how far away new-generation runners like Mary Keitany and Florence and Edna Kiplagat still are from it.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

[aaronk]

Despite her inability to win an Olympic title, she won the WC in 2005, and several major Marathons in her career; was a world record half marathon holder, a double World cross country winner, a 30 minute 10K performer; a great professional and committed, clean athlete, and one fully expected the put down on this particular Forum by at least one poster.

At the time that she ran that 30:01.09, in the 2002 Europeans, the next best time ever run (excluding Wang, of course) was 30:17.49 by Derartu Tulu in the Sydney Games. (We all note that the All-Time lists given in T&F News's event previews do not include the performances from the '93 and '97 Chinese National Games.) Despite her lack of "turn of speed", she also ran a 5000 in 14:29.11 (European Cup '04) that was, at the time, the 2nd-fastest ever run outside China. Against European opposition on the track, she could run away from the opposition. In global track competition, she dragged quite a few runners to PBs in her day! She finally moved up to a distance at which she could put the race away before the end against anyone in the world. As often happens, the training necessary to reach and maintain that kind of condition took its toll.

I think the worth of her marathon record is aptly demonstrated by how far away new-generation runners like Mary Keitany and Florence and Edna Kiplagat still are from it.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

Alan, the Keitany's, Kiplagat's et al haven't even reached (or surpassed!!) Paula's SECOND best time....of 2:17:18..........nor her THIRD best time of 2:17:42!!!!

Let them beat THOSE times before they go chasing down the World Record!!!

[mal]

LOL Fromage.

She has a great palmares. She was great in her time. She's been milking it for the last 5 years - at least.

Drivel I think not. You are naive. When some woman / girl runs 2:12, the event will be catching up to the men's performance.

But even at the current level, she's the only runner in that category. The rest are so far back it confirms my comment that the event is weak.

[mump boy]

Despite her inability to win an Olympic title, she won the WC in 2005, and several major Marathons in her career; was a world record half marathon holder, a double World cross country winner, a 30 minute 10K performer; a great professional and committed, clean athlete, and one fully expected the put down on this particular Forum by at least one poster.

At the time that she ran that 30:01.09, in the 2002 Europeans, the next best time ever run (excluding Wang, of course) was 30:17.49 by Derartu Tulu in the Sydney Games.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

You're forgetting someone !!

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/athletic ... al_a08811/

[kuha]

When some woman / girl runs 2:12, the event will be catching up to the men's performance.

And when pigs fly, they will make eagles look like walruses.

[Alan Shank]

At the time that she ran that 30:01.09, in the 2002 Europeans, the next best time ever run (excluding Wang, of course) was 30:17.49 by Derartu Tulu in the Sydney Games.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

You're forgetting someone !!

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/athletic ... al_a08811/

Whoops! You're right! Busted! It was right there on the page, too. 1986 30:13.74, also in the Euros. Ingrid Kristiansen, the year after she set her PB of 2:21:06.
Thanks,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

[26mi235]

mal, either you think 1) all of the women's records are soft and that is unacceptable and any great woman is not actually great, she is just good compared to a bunch of chumps, or 2) that getting 1281 points on the IAAF tables is a trivial thing and/or that the IAAF point tables are terribly flawed.

However, there are a heck of a lot of distance runners that can be a 30:00 or a 1:55 or a 3:54 that cannot touch a 2:15. For instnace, there are ~350 Americans that have run sub-4, a mark women will not run for a very long time; in fact running sub-4 for 1500 meters is much harder with just a handful of American women doing it but with probably tens of thousands of men doing it. But there are not very many men that have run 2:15:25 or better.

So rather than repeatedly disparage that 2:15 why don't you actually back it up with systematic analysis; I suspect it is because there is not nearly so much evidence that it is only a so-so mark. And, given that a woman that can run sub-2:18 in a couple of big races can walk away with huge rewards, probably more than any but the top few sprinters, it is a really big draw for top talent and effort. Thus, it does not make sense that a mark well beyond the one that would reap huge rewards is a 'weak' mark because people would be taking shots at it all of the time and focusing on it very hard. Shalane Flanagan is a pretty good runner, and she it a 'cab ride' away from a 2:15 (or even a 2:18).

[basehead617]

26mi, couldn't have said it better myself (so i won't try)

[mal]

26.
Around Olympic time my tolerance for average and hangers on is low.

Yep, and Womens's sports are of a lesser standard than the comparison between the NBA and the WNBA, or at least no better.

Yep, I'm a shithead. Big deal.

There is a lot of average out there.

[SQUACKEE]

26.
There is a lot of average out there.

Well you are not average mal, you are a world class asshole. Paula's world record beats the second best athlete who ever ran by a 1/2 mile, but you say it's weak. Paula tries to make one last Olympics which many seasoned track freaks feel would be their ultimate fantasy Olympic moment, but you discount it completely.

Paula is one of the most inspiration athletes I have ever had the pleasure to watch. She is the definition of toughness.It's sad that this cyber either has given you a voice.

Paula is a giant and mal is a pathetic and bitter nobody.

[mal]

Thanks Squakee. I strive to be the best.

I just wish you could have a shot at me in person. I am sure your fingers are shaking and your lips are quivering.

I never said she wasn't the best. (In a weak event.) I don't begrudge her performance. I just find times that slow uninspiring.

And I refer back to the Henmania comment. And my comment on being the tallest of Snow White's room mates. I always like that one. I also think she should have retired 5 years ago. But to her credit she didn't take lottery money.

And its aether. Not Either.

And I am not a nobody. Well I am now. I used to be a contender.

So did she. She was a great athlete (albeit in a developing event.) Made heaps of money. Will continue that. All props to her.

As an aside, I find Greta Waitz inspirational. I find Betty Cuthbert inspirational. I suspect I could name another dozen.

[mump boy]

26.
There is a lot of average out there.

Well you are not average mal, you are a world class asshole. Paula's world record beats the second best athlete who ever ran by a 1/2 mile, but you say it's weak. Paula tries to make one last Olympics which many seasoned track freaks feel would be their ultimate fantasy Olympic moment, but you discount it completely.

Paula is one of the most inspiration athletes I have ever had the pleasure to watch. She is the definition of toughness.It's sad that this cyber either has given you a voice.

Paula is a giant and mal is a pathetic and bitter nobody.

couldn't have put it better

[kuha]

I never said she wasn't the best. (In a weak event.) I don't begrudge her performance. I just find times that slow uninspiring.

You probably don't need to be pummeled any more, but you really are asking for it, for whatever perverse reason. As stated before, your basic premise here is simply false. And all the arguing in the world cannot salvage a false premise. The women's marathon is not at all a "developing" event and the current world best times are not "slow." It's really that simple. Despite all the huffing and puffing, sub-2:20 times are not common and Radcliffe's 2:15 is a superbly strong mark. You may think that women should be running 2:12s at this point (but then, why not 2:09s, 2:07s?) but the facts are what they are. The best trained and most talented women distance runners have tackled the marathon and the record books are what they are. By definition, then, we are seeing "the best"--and there is no logic at all in expecting that times are going to drop by 4 or 5 minutes in the next few years. It's for all these reasons that your "critique" seems so petty and pointless.

[mal]

Thanks Kuha.
So back to pointless.
Who's posting today is going to have impact on the events to follow?
And to honest I care about as much about your opinions as you do about mine. I long ago stopped being concerned whether my opinion was popular or even interesting.
The women's marathon for me will be like watching Sonja Henie skating movies and comparing them to today's performers.
Ready when you are mr demille.

[kuha]

No, thank you! It's good to know that your opinions aren't based on anything other than whim and that you don't care what anyone else thinks. That will help us evaluate all your future posts. Cheers.

[mal]

Kuha, I don't post for the others.
I decided at retirement that I spent so long making comments designed to not offend, that true discourse - right or wrong is missed. I see the funny side of everyone's opinion. Even the well thought out ones make me laugh. Who cares ? Not I.
I was fortunate to have had a satisfying career. Both athletic and business. Now I enjoy the reaction.

However I do think that too many hang on too long. For example - the one here, and T Lewis of Australia. Perhaps even Lolo Jones. Perhaps. And many more. The 40 year old guys playing in the NBA.

People have their time. Its one thing to keep running or racing, its another to occupy the 5 - 8 th spot in the final when you have been in the 1 - 3 range. Just collecting cash like a job.
Not wishing to rain on their parade, but I am bored by the 'inside' stories and the 'tragedy' and the 'inspiration'. Comments like 'its a war out there'. Pah. No its not.
Just run. When you aren't fast enough, leave, and coach or something. Don't hang around milking it for 10 years. Get a life, get a job, get out of the way.

Yes, and that's what I did with my job. And my sport.
Now I've started all this stuff again I suspect 'outrage'. But that's the basis of MY world.
Go at it. I am glad I have brought the out of some of you.

[preston]

The IAAF should have stuck to their guns and never allowed the 2:15 to be ratified. Of course that doesn't negate the 2:17 and 2:18 but as far as I'm concerned 2:15 = 10.49

[gh]

K....

People have their time. Its one thing to keep running or racing, its another to occupy the 5 - 8 th spot in the final when you have been in the 1 - 3 range. Just collecting cash like a job....

when a sport turns pro, it IS a job and they have a right to stay at it as long as they can make a living at it. Would you like a bunch of message-board yahoos deciding when you retired from your job just because their perception was because you were past your sell date?

[mal]

Acceptible point for her and the rest of the pensioners, but I do not have to retain the same level of interest.
This thread was about my lack of excitement about PR, who I believe is well past her use by date.

I have no issue with others worshiping at the feet of spent forces. By the time you get to 38 - 40, its more about appearance money and chameo performances. Its rare that any athlete at that age provides the same value as Fat Elvis, who I would pay to see.

My feelings for Maurice Greene while he was a force, would be different than my view of him if he turned up and finished in the latter part of the field.

Lets not morph this into whether pro track has improved the sport. This is about people being pissed at me for my disdainful comments about Grandma Radcliffe and her ability to rivet the elderly driving on Paula Radcliffe Way, passing through nearby Bowels Wood.

[kuha]

The real problem is that your point is trivial, unnecessarily nasty, and endlessly repeated.

[Conor Dary]

but I do not have to retain the same level of interest.

As if anyone cared.

If everyone carried on endlessly about what or who didn't interest them anymore it would be pretty dreadful.

[mal]

I think we've all got it out of our systems.

Bye.