Selsouli AGAIN and other timely + another one bites the dust


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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Gabriella » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:04 am

There have been four Kenyan positives come to light in the last week too.

Matthew Kisorio - (58:46, 3rd fastest all-time over half marathon) anabolic streoids
Ronald Kipchumba - EPO (from Linz marathon)
Rael Kiyara (ran a course record in the Hmaburg marathon of 2:23.47) - anabolic steroids
Jemima Sumgong Jelagat (second in Boston marathon) - cortisone preparation of prednisolone
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby vencio2 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:13 am

Goumri, of course, was training partner to the infamous rashid ramzi. :roll:
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Athletics » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:13 am

Master Po wrote:Six more, as announced here:

http://www.iaaf.org/antidoping/news/newsid=66100.html

Abderrahim Goumri (Morocco)
Iríni Kokkinaríou (Greece)
Meryem Erdogan (Turkey)
Svetlana Klyuka (Russia)
Nailiya Yulamanova (Russia)
Yevgenina Zinurova (Russia)

Don't know if any of these were on any of their nations OG teams, but -- following distance events more than other events -- I noted particularly Goumri, a prominent marathoner in recent years and a factor in several of his nation's team medals at WXC & also Klyuka who was 4th in Beijing 800, iirc.


Seems like IAAF is trying to make a somekind of a statement with all these T&F busts before the games. Though none of the busted have so far been a MAJOR star, it's always good to see the cheaters get busted.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby pakillo » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:19 am

Athletics wrote:
Master Po wrote:Six more, as announced here:

http://www.iaaf.org/antidoping/news/newsid=66100.html

Abderrahim Goumri (Morocco)
Iríni Kokkinaríou (Greece)
Meryem Erdogan (Turkey)
Svetlana Klyuka (Russia)
Nailiya Yulamanova (Russia)
Yevgenina Zinurova (Russia)

Don't know if any of these were on any of their nations OG teams, but -- following distance events more than other events -- I noted particularly Goumri, a prominent marathoner in recent years and a factor in several of his nation's team medals at WXC & also Klyuka who was 4th in Beijing 800, iirc.


Seems like IAAF is trying to make a somekind of a statement with all these T&F busts before the games. Though none of the busted have so far been a MAJOR star, it's always good to see the cheaters get busted.

No worries, IAAF wouldn't allow their major star to be busted :|
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby peach77 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:25 am

And another...oh look, from one of the same countries mentioned above!

Greek media is reporting that World Indoor High Jump champion Dimitris Hondrokoukis has been done for stanozolol...

http://www.madata.gr/athletic/211885.html (in Greek)

He denies it (naturally) but has announced it himself and withdrawn from the team.

They really are going for it this time, aren't they? We always get a big spate around Olympic time but I'd be VERY worried at the moment if I was on the juice!

GOOD!
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Flumpy » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:59 am

And still they come!!!

Zoltan kovago has refused to take a test and been banned.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/ ... pe=article
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Gabriella » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:09 am

Ooo it's like The Night Of The Long Knives!

Nothing like a purge before a major games. Can we have some more big names now please? I want rid of more.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby Marlow » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:04 am

EPelle wrote:Selsouli was targeted.

Yay!!

It ain't a 'witch-hunt' if they actually find witches!
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby fromage » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:54 am

Great to see the beginning of an improved crack down ... shame it was not possible over the last 20/30 years ; noticeable how pleased so many posters are about the positives especially, when I have observed over the years the weak condemnation and excuse making, in connection with a number of American elite medal winning athletes...Almost always in the sprint department.

Great to hear that our Brit girls 4x400 team have now been shunted to medal positions; the current medallists from the USA should with integrity give up theirs but they won't,the excuse being that Cox only ran in the prelims...feeble stuff.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby beebee » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:07 am

fromage wrote:Great to see the beginning of an improved crack down ... shame it was not possible over the last 20/30 years ; noticeable how pleased so many posters are about the positives especially, when I have observed over the years the weak condemnation and excuse making, in connection with a number of American elite medal winning athletes...Almost always in the sprint department.

Great to hear that our Brit girls 4x400 team have now been shunted to medal positions; the current medallists from the USA should with integrity give up theirs but they won't,the excuse being that Cox only ran in the prelims...feeble stuff.



You're totally correct...the U.S. women would have NEVER MADE IT TO THE 2004 OLYMPIC FINALS but not for Cox.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby errolM » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:11 am

beebee wrote:You're totally correct...the U.S. women would have NEVER MADE IT TO THE 2004 OLYMPIC FINALS but not for Cox.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Thus proving fromage's point perfectly. The only word he omitted was apologists.

I was reading some older posts about Merrit not long ago. I can't find the relevant one now, but when he was caught, a poster here - and I'll post his name as soon as I rediscover the post - said something along the lines of "we should all laugh and forget about it".

I'm glad WADA didn't share his sense of humour.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Master Po » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:44 am

Even though it's been discussed elsewhere on these boards, probably OK to discuss the general issues raised by fromage, during this interlude in this thread between announcements of more doping positives...

writing as a USA person who follows and supports USA T&F, I want doping athletes revealed and suspended and their results removed, regardless of where they are from. And as much as I might wish there were no such persons at all, I know that's not the case, and so I am especially interested in seeing doping athletes from the USA revealed and suspended. I don't want them to be representing my nation, or the federation I support with my (meager) $$. I may care about USA T&F, but I care more about T&F as a sport than I do about whoever happens to be my nation's athletes, especially those who cheat.

I know there are and have been apologists for dopers on these boards, not only for USA athletes who are dopers, but for other nations, too. But though I can't prove it, I think the sentiments we see expressed on this thread represent, the majority view of regular posters -- we want to see dopers caught regardless of where they are from.

It doesn't surprise me when relay athletes don't want to give up their medals -- and I don't care how they feel -- in the end, it isn't their decision. But the psychology of those reactions makes some sense. Anyone who has ever been in some sort of team/group situation and had to suffer some sort of collective penalty/punishment because someone else in the group cheated or screwed up knows it doesn't "feel fair" if you are one of the others. But that's the way it goes. You win together and fail together.

(And so beebee's comment is of course irrelevant to all such considerations -- doesn't matter if four different athletes could have earned that medal. In fact, it was earned illegitimately, according to the rules of this game. Those who were "cheated" by the cheater need to take it up w her instead of being pissed at those enforcing the stated rules.)

And now, we expect to return to our main story...next contestants in the doping sweepstakes?
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby toyracer » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:00 am

Side note: When they're finished reviewing the samples from Athens I hope that attention is shifted to Osaka. Fortunately there is one year left for those sample reviews to occur. Expose them all and let the chips fall where they may.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby preston » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:05 am

toyracer wrote:Side note: When they're finished reviewing the samples from Athens I hope that attention is shifted to Osaka. Fortunately there is one year left for those sample reviews to occur. Expose them all and let the chips fall where they may.

Two different authorities. IOC has an 8 year rule, but I don't think the IAAF does - though I think they are willing to go back more years.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby pakillo » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:12 am

Just read that Kovago refused to provide a sample to doping officials LAST YEAR????!!!!
Is this a joke?! Someone who is regular at meetings and even won bronze in Helsinki this year banned for not providing doping sample last year!!!

How can you people be happy about this?! This only proves whole testing is a SHIT!
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby beebee » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:27 am

errolM wrote:
beebee wrote:You're totally correct...the U.S. women would have NEVER MADE IT TO THE 2004 OLYMPIC FINALS but not for Cox.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Thus proving fromage's point perfectly. The only word he omitted was apologists.

I was reading some older posts about Merrit not long ago. I can't find the relevant one now, but when he was caught, a poster here - and I'll post his name as soon as I rediscover the post - said something along the lines of "we should all laugh and forget about it".

I'm glad WADA didn't share his sense of humour.


This is not an East Germany situation where everyone was doped to the gills. Those other U.S. women were completely innocent shouldn't have been punished...take your bitching to the IAAF.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby uakari » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:55 am

and the irony of kovago's medal 8 yrs ago being upgraded after fazekas' positive test...
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Flumpy » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:28 pm

beebee wrote:
errolM wrote:
beebee wrote:You're totally correct...the U.S. women would have NEVER MADE IT TO THE 2004 OLYMPIC FINALS but not for Cox.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Thus proving fromage's point perfectly. The only word he omitted was apologists.

I was reading some older posts about Merrit not long ago. I can't find the relevant one now, but when he was caught, a poster here - and I'll post his name as soon as I rediscover the post - said something along the lines of "we should all laugh and forget about it".

I'm glad WADA didn't share his sense of humour.


This is not an East Germany situation where everyone was doped to the gills. Those other U.S. women were completely innocent shouldn't have been punished...take your bitching to the IAAF.


Why would he need to do that? The IAAF are fully aware of the situation and any day now will be handing the medals over to their rightful owners.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby nevetsllim » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:15 pm

Not surprised by Yefremova. I became a bit suspicious when she improved her nine-year-old 400m PB (albeit by a miniscule margin) last year at a fairly advanced age.

I'm quite pleased Kovago has been banned because I kept getting Fazekas and Kovago mixed up in terms of which one was suspended but now I know they are both dopers so I don't need to differentiate. :wink:
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Flumpy » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:34 pm

Have you got any info about him refusing the test last year? If so why has this only been announced now and why was he allowed to compete all this time?
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Blues » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:10 pm

Flumpy wrote:Have you got any info about him refusing the test last year? If so why has this only been announced now and why was he allowed to compete all this time?


Not sure of the specific details, but it took some time until the Hungarian anti-doping authorities made the decision to clear him, then for the IAAF to appeal the Hungarian ruling, then for the Court of Arbitration for Sport to uphold the IAAF appeal, so his ban wasn't official until Thursday.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby errolM » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:26 pm

beebee wrote:
errolM wrote:
beebee wrote:You're totally correct...the U.S. women would have NEVER MADE IT TO THE 2004 OLYMPIC FINALS but not for Cox.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Thus proving fromage's point perfectly. The only word he omitted was apologists.

I was reading some older posts about Merrit not long ago. I can't find the relevant one now, but when he was caught, a poster here - and I'll post his name as soon as I rediscover the post - said something along the lines of "we should all laugh and forget about it".

I'm glad WADA didn't share his sense of humour.


This is not an East Germany situation where everyone was doped to the gills. Those other U.S. women were completely innocent shouldn't have been punished...take your bitching to the IAAF.


Ah, not East Germany - that's all right then. Fortunately, I don't need to take my bitching anywhere - your girls will lose their medals whatever you or I say or do. Happy days.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Powell » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:04 pm

beebee wrote:You're totally correct...the U.S. women would have NEVER MADE IT TO THE 2004 OLYMPIC FINALS but not for Cox.


The performance was illegitimate, therefore it shouldn't count. That's like if one runner on the relay runs out of her lane, the whole team gets DQed. By your logic, they should only DQ this one athlete and give medals to the other three.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby peach77 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:40 pm

nevetsllim wrote:Not surprised by Yefremova. I became a bit suspicious when she improved her nine-year-old 400m PB (albeit by a miniscule margin) last year at a fairly advanced age.


Really? I mean, she had been relatively consistent throughout her career and I don't think a miniscule PB at her age was something ridiculous or out of this world. In fairness, I was "relatively" surprised at her...there was no real evidence that glared at me, but she wasn't important enough for me to really think about, I suppose.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Flumpy » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:35 am

I'm more surprised by Chondrokoukis.

He doesn't tick any of the boxes which raise suspicion and male HJ's aren't known for failing drug tests. Especially for Stanozolol :?
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby errolM » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:57 am

errolM wrote:
beebee wrote:You're totally correct...the U.S. women would have NEVER MADE IT TO THE 2004 OLYMPIC FINALS but not for Cox.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Thus proving fromage's point perfectly. The only word he omitted was apologists.

I was reading some older posts about Merrit not long ago. I can't find the relevant one now, but when he was caught, a poster here - and I'll post his name as soon as I rediscover the post - said something along the lines of "we should all laugh and forget about it".

I'm glad WADA didn't share his sense of humour.


Marlow wrote:In considering an appropriate punishment, what could possibly surpass the notoriety and humiliation that he's enduring right now. I'd give him a pass and hopefully he's learned his lesson and will be able to rise to the occasion in the future (cough, cough).

[does that answer your question, donley2?]


Found the post I referred to - my memory was a little askew in terms of the quote, the sentiments are still outrageous for me.

I gather Marlow is a founder member here and a coach, so I'll hold my tongue. I'll just say... Bloody hell, apologist.

For completion's sake, here's the original thread:

http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39556&hilit=merritt
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby gh » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:04 pm

Flumpy wrote:I'm more surprised by Chondrokoukis.

... male HJ's aren't known for failing drug tests. ...


unless their name is Sotomayor
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Flumpy » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:37 am

You're making my point for me Gaz. He's the only one I can think of as well and that was years ago.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby pakillo » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:03 am

Flumpy wrote:You're making my point for me Gaz. He's the only one I can think of as well and that was years ago.

Dragutin Topić
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Athletics » Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:35 pm

St. Kitts & Nevis sprinter Tameka Williams retaired from olympics. Apparently she didn't get busted by a test(?), but admitted using doping and decided to withdraw from olympics. Now did that olympic oath at the opening ceremony make her think about the morality of her actions :?:
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby pakillo » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:18 pm

Athletics wrote:St. Kitts & Nevis sprinter Tameka Williams retaired from olympics. Apparently she didn't get busted by a test(?), but admitted using doping and decided to withdraw from olympics. Now did that olympic oath at the opening ceremony make her think about the morality of her actions :?:

Funniest shit if she passed all previous tests :lol:
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Deuce » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:33 pm

Ivan Tsikhan (Tikhon) is suspended from London games - positive samples from Athens 2004 and Helsinki 2005 :!: Don't know details, in Belarus:

http://racyja.eu/index.php?id=106&zoom=1468

http://nn.by/?c=ar&i=77798
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby lapsus » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:47 pm

So this is one of the positives from retesting samples, were there any other names announced so far?

Oh, and couldn't they have published this a few days earlier? It messed up my Ely prediction contest entry for hammer :twisted:
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby aaronk » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:55 pm

Deuce wrote:Ivan Tsikhan (Tikhon) is suspended from London games - positive samples from Athens 2004 and Helsinki 2005 :!: Don't know details, in Belarus:

http://racyja.eu/index.php?id=106&zoom=1468

http://nn.by/?c=ar&i=77798
lapsus wrote:So this is one of the positives from retesting samples, were there any other names announced so far?

Oh, and couldn't they have published this a few days earlier? It messed up my Ely prediction contest entry for hammer :twisted:


Mine too!!
I have Tikhon to win!!
Dang!! :evil:
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Flumpy » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:09 am

HA!!! How many years of reassigned medals does that mean???
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Master Po » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:08 am

MightyBurner pointed this one out over in the OG forum, on the m1500 thread:

Amine Laalou (Morocco)
http://olympics.runnersworld.com/2012/m ... t-of-olys/

"Laalou tested positive for furosemide, a diuretic used to hide the presence of performance-enhancing drugs in the urine. In July, Moroccan Mariem Alaoui Selsouli also tested positive for furosemide and was barred from the Olympics."
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Blues » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:46 pm

pakillo wrote:
Athletics wrote:St. Kitts & Nevis sprinter Tameka Williams retaired from olympics. Apparently she didn't get busted by a test(?), but admitted using doping and decided to withdraw from olympics. Now did that olympic oath at the opening ceremony make her think about the morality of her actions :?:

Funniest shit if she passed all previous tests :lol:


She might have passed the WADA tests anyway, since they might not have tested for what she used despite the fact that it was banned... According to the article from the St.Kitts Nevis Observer below, she injected "Blast Off Red", which is some kind of blood boosting PED injectable combination for animals, like race horses and dogs, that's not approved for human use.. I haven't been able to find what drugs or ingredients Blast Off Red contains yet...

I really hope there's not a current trend for athletes to inject veterinary medicines (with no proof of safety in humans) as PEDs, just because they may not be individually listed on the WADA banned list and possibly might not be specifically tested for, even though veterinary medicines as a group are banned by WADA under the category of "non-approved substances"... :shock:

http://www.thestkittsnevisobserver.com/ ... liams.html

http://www.horseprerace.com/index.php?m ... cts_id=143
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby rsb2 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:48 pm

I really hope that athletes who are striving to cheat are injecting huge doses of various substances that have never been approved as safe for human consumption. Hopefully, the damage done to these individuals will increase the numbers of athletes who choose the level playing field alternative !
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby croflash » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:48 pm

Master Po wrote:MightyBurner pointed this one out over in the OG forum, on the m1500 thread:

Amine Laalou (Morocco)
http://olympics.runnersworld.com/2012/m ... t-of-olys/

"Laalou tested positive for furosemide, a diuretic used to hide the presence of performance-enhancing drugs in the urine. In July, Moroccan Mariem Alaoui Selsouli also tested positive for furosemide and was barred from the Olympics."


I'm starting to wonder how many more positives are going to be revealed. Those names aren't big outside the T&F world, but well-known among those who follow the sport on a regular basis.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby EPelle » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:22 am

Moldavians Margieva Marina and Natalia Artyk withdrawn prior to start.
http://ava.md/news/016947-skandal-v-lon ... pinga.html
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