Selsouli AGAIN and other timely + another one bites the dust


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Selsouli AGAIN and other timely + another one bites the dust

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:30 am

Quelle Surprise

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/wor ... -positive/

2 year drug bans are TOTALLY ridicuous and make this sport look stupid time and time and time again
Last edited by mump boy on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby beebee » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:53 am

If this lady shows up on time at her McDonald's gig it's probably because of PEDs.

We should never ever have to see this sociopathic cheater perform on a track again.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:11 am

She won't be coming back :D
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby lapsus » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:35 am

Another diuretic positive, right after Fränk Schleck in the Tour de France. Test labs have a new, better detection method, perhaps, for that part of a drug cocktail?

Based on their history (and previous test results and/or blood passport), Selsouli and Schleck both were probably targeted by testers who "knew" there was something iffy. The message is "we know what you are up to, and we will keep testing you until something comes up - then we will throw the book at you". A bit like sending a gangster to prison for decades because of tax evasion.

But I disagree with mump boy, a 2 year ban for first offense is OK from overall fairness POV. Reasoning is similar to why I oppose the death penalty.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby kuha » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:56 am

Cue Claude Rains....
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby jeremyp » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:30 am

I thought that 1500 of hers looked EPO'ish.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby vencio2 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:31 am

could we get those testers out to turkey next please...
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby Flumpy » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:54 am

kuha wrote:Cue Claude Rains....


It does seem as if that's what they're doing. The powers that be are making aconcerted effort to catch as many of the usual suspects as they can before the games.

Hopefully a few more to go in the next week :D
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby Pego » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:58 am

Flumpy wrote:
kuha wrote:Cue Claude Rains....


It does seem as if that's what they're doing. The powers that be are making aconcerted effort to catch as many of the usual suspects as they can before the games.

Hopefully a few more to go in the next week :D


What I wonder is whether the IAAF is going to give me extra points for Sally Kipyego after Selsouli beat her (in Eugene I think).
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby knockout » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:36 am

Great news... and no surprise, as previous posters have said....

coming back from a drug ban and running much better than before. always a pretty big clue :)
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby skiboo » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:46 am

In an ironic way, best news I've heard this year. This effing cow will not likely set foot on a track again. To think, she believed nobody would figure it out.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby doug5321 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:02 am

i am suspicious of everyone who has been caught 1 time, they all have excuses about why they were really innocent, some quite bizarre, some admit cheating and claim they are now clean.

the way i look at it if someone has used PED's its because they did not believe they could win (or be competitive) honestly, and if you did not think you could win honestly before, why would that person think they could do it clean now?


i did not mention names though it includes selsouli, but is not only selsouli.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby kamikaze7 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:40 am

Im actually surprised.........

Its amazing that she slipped up after being busted once.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby rsb2 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:08 am

Optimistically speaking, this could indicate that the testers are actually gaining ground on the cheats. And, even if it just appears that way, it's a good thing!
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby tm71 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:19 am

kamikaze7 wrote:Im actually surprised.........

Its amazing that she slipped up after being busted once.



that it is so quickly afterwards. that is like getting a ticket from one cop going to work in the morning, then getting another one on the way home from work...
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby EPelle » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:13 am

Selsouli was targeted. She had undergone three unannounced tests by the request of the French Agency anti-doping agency (AFLD) at the behest of the IAAF.

From the initial reports, Selsouli's trainer, Rachid Chemlal, appears to contend that Selsouli's failed test co-incided with the first day of her partaking in Ramadan. The inference he may attempt to have drawn is silly and lacks sense. If Selsouli is, indeed, partaking in Ramadan, she's apt to be dehydrated most of the day as I understand she won't be able to consume fluids during the day hours. The drug furosemide is a diuretic that would cause her to have a urine output substantially greater than the rate of hydration she would be able to receive.
Last edited by EPelle on Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby Athletics » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:19 am

doug5321 wrote:i am suspicious of everyone who has been caught 1 time, they all have excuses about why they were really innocent, some quite bizarre, some admit cheating and claim they are now clean.

the way i look at it if someone has used PED's its because they did not believe they could win (or be competitive) honestly, and if you did not think you could win honestly before, why would that person think they could do it clean now?


i did not mention names though it includes selsouli, but is not only selsouli.


Gatlin?
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby knockout » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:00 am

"Ramadan", thats disgraceful pulling that card out of the hat.

Using a religious event to try and cover your ass..... almost as bad as the cheating itself.

I seriously doubt any one could observe ramadan (which runs throught the whole olympics) and expect to maintain the kind of form required to win a medal.

At this time of the year you are talking about 17-18 hours each day without any food or water, brutal... (total respect for those who are fasting!)
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby errolM » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:03 am

I read that one of the British rowers is organising 600 meals for the poor in Morocco (his father's homeland) after the games - this apparently is allowed instead of fasting. He wanted to fast, but decided it just couldn't work. Can't find a link to post right now, please correct me if I'm wrong here.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby Randy Treadway » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:18 am

errolM wrote:I read that one of the British rowers is organising 600 meals for the poor in Morocco (his father's homeland) after the games - this apparently is allowed instead of fasting.


Sounds like buying carbon credits to offset polluting. "Those who can afford it, do it."

Actually, if fasting is a meritorious thing, it should be meritorious at ANY time of the year, so time shifting ought to be acceptable.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby Master Po » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:54 am

Randy Treadway wrote:
errolM wrote:I read that one of the British rowers is organising 600 meals for the poor in Morocco (his father's homeland) after the games - this apparently is allowed instead of fasting.


Sounds like buying carbon credits to offset polluting. "Those who can afford it, do it."

Actually, if fasting is a meritorious thing, it should be meritorious at ANY time of the year, so time shifting ought to be acceptable.


Not interested in diverting this thread, as I want its focus to remain on Selsouli's failed test. But just to clarify -- exceptions/alternatives to keeping the Ramadan fast have long been permitted for practicing Muslims. Muslim athletes participating in the OG can as adults make their own decisions on this, typically in consultation with family or their local religious community leaders, but I would guess that many/most will be exempted or provide alternative (as noted above regarding the rower). At the very least, the travel exemption (see link below) would apply to nearly all of them.

This link is a good one for basic clarification of the practices related to Ramadan:
http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Arti ... C0808-3654

I agree w the post above that Selsouli's "Ramadan excuse" is pathetic -- right up there with the great history of lame excuses for others caught doping. I'd like to hear the explanation for how to be a 3:56 1500 runner "clean" :roll: when that was out of her range whilst doping. Maybe she was just well-rested from the long time away from competition...
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby nevetsllim » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:39 am

I thought the sample was taken on the day of the Paris Diamond League which was two weeks before Ramadan. What a stupid excuse. :roll:
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby EPelle » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:56 am

According to a Le Matin report (based on a l'Equipe story), her coach, Chemlal, states that the first test (failure?) coincided with 21-July, the first day of their Ramadan observance.

Chemlal a indiqué que sa protégée avait subi un contrôle antidopage le 21 juillet qui coïncidait avec le premier jour du mois sacré de Ramadan à l’instar des autres athlètes marocains qui feront le voyage à Londres. Il a précisé que la Fédération internationale d’athlétisme n’aurait pas besoin de la contrôler une autre fois si elle a été positive comme l’a révélé l’Equipe.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby bekayne » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:46 am

nevetsllim wrote:I thought the sample was taken on the day of the Paris Diamond League which was two weeks before Ramadan. What a stupid excuse. :roll:


Correct.
"The prohibited substance furosemide was found in Mrs Alaoui Selsouli's sample collected … in Paris on 6 July 2012," a spokesman for the IAAF said in a statement.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/ju ... i-diuretic
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby mump boy » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:48 am

3 more :D

The sample of Inna Eftimova (Bulgaria) tested positive for synthetic Growth Hormone, while the samples of Nataliya Tobias (Ukraine) and Antonina Yefremova, (Ukraine) both contained traces of synthetic testosterone.

Tobias of course was bronze medallist last time

http://www.iaaf.org//antidoping/news/newsid=66099.html
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby andyjgt » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:20 am

These athletes were not on my list of the most suspicious Ukrainians, especially not Yefremova who raced quite often on the circuit (including Shanghai this year), but it wasn't a complete shock given that neither has raced since the end of May (though given Tobias' only run outdoors was a 4:14 in a 4:04 race I wouldn't have been surprised if she'd ended her season herself - Yefremova had run a sub-52 so was in OK form at least).

Tobias is/was coached by Igor Lishchynskyy, I hope this doesn't mean the silver medallist from Beijing was iffy too :cry:
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Master Po » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:56 pm

Six more, as announced here:

http://www.iaaf.org/antidoping/news/newsid=66100.html

Abderrahim Goumri (Morocco)
Iríni Kokkinaríou (Greece)
Meryem Erdogan (Turkey)
Svetlana Klyuka (Russia)
Nailiya Yulamanova (Russia)
Yevgenina Zinurova (Russia)

Don't know if any of these were on any of their nations OG teams, but -- following distance events more than other events -- I noted particularly Goumri, a prominent marathoner in recent years and a factor in several of his nation's team medals at WXC & also Klyuka who was 4th in Beijing 800, iirc.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby Blues » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:04 pm

nevetsllim wrote:I thought the sample was taken on the day of the Paris Diamond League which was two weeks before Ramadan. What a stupid excuse. :roll:


I don't see how they logically came up with that one. She should have said that her doctor prescribed the diuretic to treat her PMS, and that she didn't know the diuretic was a diuretic or that it was banned by WADA, despite the fact that essentially all diuretics are. :wink:

US soccer star Hope Solo evidently had a legitimate explanation since USADA felt it was fairest to give her a public warning a few weeks prior to the Olympics, and the diuretics in each case were different, with Solo's canrenone (metabolite of spironolactone) having the ability to act as a diuretic and also as an anti-androgen agent that can block some of the effects of testosterone, including certain unwanted effects. Hopefully USADA/WADA would have treated a track and field athlete the same as they treated one of the biggest soccer stars in the US, under similar circumstances. I'd imagine that the fallout and skepticism in certain track and field discussion groups would be off the charts though, regardless of the specific circumstances, if for example a star sprinter tested positive for a banned diuretic just before the games, didn't have a TUE, and was given a public warning by the anti-doping agency of her home country..
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Rog » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:48 pm

Can I just say that I think Hope Solo is possibly the coolest name I've ever heard?
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby peach77 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:54 pm

The thing with that list of new positives is that they weren't all quite as obvious as Selsouli- I never particularly suspected Yefremova, for example, who has, bar a couple of off seasons, has been fairly consistent and not really improved since she was a youngster and Tobias didn't have any absolutely ridiculously "out there" times either.

Having said all of that, look at the list of countries there. AGAIN. When are the IAAF going to sit up and do something about this? Russia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Turkey (and by the way, is anything being done about Yanit's test refusal considering she ran a NR last week?!), Morocco- same old, same old. DO something about it!
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Gabriella » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:04 am

There have been four Kenyan positives come to light in the last week too.

Matthew Kisorio - (58:46, 3rd fastest all-time over half marathon) anabolic streoids
Ronald Kipchumba - EPO (from Linz marathon)
Rael Kiyara (ran a course record in the Hmaburg marathon of 2:23.47) - anabolic steroids
Jemima Sumgong Jelagat (second in Boston marathon) - cortisone preparation of prednisolone
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby vencio2 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:13 am

Goumri, of course, was training partner to the infamous rashid ramzi. :roll:
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Athletics » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:13 am

Master Po wrote:Six more, as announced here:

http://www.iaaf.org/antidoping/news/newsid=66100.html

Abderrahim Goumri (Morocco)
Iríni Kokkinaríou (Greece)
Meryem Erdogan (Turkey)
Svetlana Klyuka (Russia)
Nailiya Yulamanova (Russia)
Yevgenina Zinurova (Russia)

Don't know if any of these were on any of their nations OG teams, but -- following distance events more than other events -- I noted particularly Goumri, a prominent marathoner in recent years and a factor in several of his nation's team medals at WXC & also Klyuka who was 4th in Beijing 800, iirc.


Seems like IAAF is trying to make a somekind of a statement with all these T&F busts before the games. Though none of the busted have so far been a MAJOR star, it's always good to see the cheaters get busted.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby pakillo » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:19 am

Athletics wrote:
Master Po wrote:Six more, as announced here:

http://www.iaaf.org/antidoping/news/newsid=66100.html

Abderrahim Goumri (Morocco)
Iríni Kokkinaríou (Greece)
Meryem Erdogan (Turkey)
Svetlana Klyuka (Russia)
Nailiya Yulamanova (Russia)
Yevgenina Zinurova (Russia)

Don't know if any of these were on any of their nations OG teams, but -- following distance events more than other events -- I noted particularly Goumri, a prominent marathoner in recent years and a factor in several of his nation's team medals at WXC & also Klyuka who was 4th in Beijing 800, iirc.


Seems like IAAF is trying to make a somekind of a statement with all these T&F busts before the games. Though none of the busted have so far been a MAJOR star, it's always good to see the cheaters get busted.

No worries, IAAF wouldn't allow their major star to be busted :|
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby peach77 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:25 am

And another...oh look, from one of the same countries mentioned above!

Greek media is reporting that World Indoor High Jump champion Dimitris Hondrokoukis has been done for stanozolol...

http://www.madata.gr/athletic/211885.html (in Greek)

He denies it (naturally) but has announced it himself and withdrawn from the team.

They really are going for it this time, aren't they? We always get a big spate around Olympic time but I'd be VERY worried at the moment if I was on the juice!

GOOD!
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Flumpy » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:59 am

And still they come!!!

Zoltan kovago has refused to take a test and been banned.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/ ... pe=article
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby Gabriella » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:09 am

Ooo it's like The Night Of The Long Knives!

Nothing like a purge before a major games. Can we have some more big names now please? I want rid of more.
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Re: Selsouli Positive AGAIN

Postby Marlow » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:04 am

EPelle wrote:Selsouli was targeted.

Yay!!

It ain't a 'witch-hunt' if they actually find witches!
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby fromage » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:54 am

Great to see the beginning of an improved crack down ... shame it was not possible over the last 20/30 years ; noticeable how pleased so many posters are about the positives especially, when I have observed over the years the weak condemnation and excuse making, in connection with a number of American elite medal winning athletes...Almost always in the sprint department.

Great to hear that our Brit girls 4x400 team have now been shunted to medal positions; the current medallists from the USA should with integrity give up theirs but they won't,the excuse being that Cox only ran in the prelims...feeble stuff.
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Re: Selsouli AGAIN and other timely positives :-)

Postby beebee » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:07 am

fromage wrote:Great to see the beginning of an improved crack down ... shame it was not possible over the last 20/30 years ; noticeable how pleased so many posters are about the positives especially, when I have observed over the years the weak condemnation and excuse making, in connection with a number of American elite medal winning athletes...Almost always in the sprint department.

Great to hear that our Brit girls 4x400 team have now been shunted to medal positions; the current medallists from the USA should with integrity give up theirs but they won't,the excuse being that Cox only ran in the prelims...feeble stuff.



You're totally correct...the U.S. women would have NEVER MADE IT TO THE 2004 OLYMPIC FINALS but not for Cox.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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