¶2012OT w100H—Dawn Harper 12.73

[nicest person ever]

Lol, it's all good. You are one of my favorite posters. I am just very passionate about my anti-Lolo way of life, sorry if I got a little carried away.

[nicest person ever]

Anybody that gambles for a living

Gambling and playing poker are two different things. Poker's a game of probabilities, which is different from gambling.

This is correct.

In true "gambling" games such as craps, roulette, etc, you are playing against the casino, and you have an inherent negative-edge against you. The game is formatted in such a way that for each bet you make, the casino has a small but ever present several percent edge on every bet you make simply as a result of the rules of the game, it is literally impossible to change your odds, in the longrun you are guaranteed to lose, it's just math.

In Poker, on the other hand, you are not playing against the casino, you are playing against the other players at the table, and the casino merely takes a small fraction of a percent of each pot (which is called the "rake"). Thus, if you are better at poker than your opponents by a wide enough margin to outweigh the "rake" that the casino rakes away from each pot, you win in the longrun.

::continued below::

[nicest person ever]

::continued from above::

It is a game of skill and understanding math and probability. A very good poker player can make a huge amount of money in the longrun, and not out of luck, but out of skill. Over the span of 1 single hand, or even several hundred or several thousand hands of poker, luck can easily prevail, as short-term variance is large, since even the best players' edge isn't that large over a small sample size of hands played, but, in the long run, if you play hundreds of thousands of hands of poker over the span of a long period of time, if you are making superior decisions than your opponents (i.e. folding the losing hand correctly a bit more often than your opponents, and extracting more value on your winning hands than your opponents, in the longrun, then, you will end up winning in the long run. Most players are losing players however, as it takes a lot of skill and a good understanding of the probability of various draws (like, you need to know for example if there is $230 in the pot, and your opponent bets $200 on the turn, so there is one card remaining to come on the river, and you have an ace high flush draw, you need to be able to quickly and accurately understand what your odds of hitting your flush draw on the next card are (9 remaining cards of your suit in the deck, out of 46 unseen cards is 9/46 odds, so about 1 chance in 5 of hitting the flush draw on the final card, whereas its $200 to you, so $200 to win a $630 pot, thus, so, you would've needed 1 chance in 3 of hitting the flush to correctly call, so, calling would be incorrect, you need to be able to comprehend these poker math situations, along with a lot of other stuff), this is the type of stuff that goes into playing winning poker in the longrun, as one small example. But anyway, yea it is not "gambling" in the sense that you are thinking of it, it is a skill game in the longrun, like chess.

[lonewolf]

I avoid pissing matches like the plague. I don't think in 7000 posts in five years I have ever posted a negative personal opinion about another poster but it is time for some constructive critism.
I do not have a Psychology degree and don't play poker. I just know that in twenty years in the Army and fifty years in the oil patch, I crossed paths with a broad spectrum of not so nice people and I have never encountered anyone as irrationally deranged on any subject as NPE is about Lolo Jones.
One wonders, if he is this upset by the actions of others, how he can contain himself when trusted with truly unpleasant confidences of his clients? Truly bizarre.
It is inconceivable that a sane person could harbor such animosity toward someone they do not know personally, who has not done them any personal harm, is not a criminal, mass murderer or terrorist but simply enjoys the benefit of hard work, does charitable work and exults in life.
As a Psychologist, NPE surely must be aware that, even if you disapprove, such violent, repetitous ranting about the harmless personal traits of another is not "normal" or acceptable to most people. In fact, the rules of this forum forbid such personal attacks on another poster or against outsiders on the subject of politics, religion and sexual orientation.
Beauty is in the "eye of the beholder", as the cliche goes. If, contrary to popular concensus, you don't consider someone attractive, that is not a logical reason to hate them. Pity them. If their behavior in every situation does not conform to your personal code of conduct, so what?
NPE behavior does not please me but I do not hate him..rather I wonder about his mental state and how he can function in polite, every day society.
NPE has had his say (repeatedly). Now, I have had mine. That will conclude my remarks on this subject.

[nicest person ever]

lol

1. First of all, I'm not a pyschologist, and probably never will be (for obvious reasons, lol). I merely have a degree in psychology (I graduated from college a few weeks ago). My back and forth with Marlow was IN JEST, as I thought was pretty obvious by the tone/flow of it, but, just in case anyone was unable to comprehend that, I even put the emoticon in it both times just to make it extra clear, but, I guess even that wasn't enough. Sigh. I guess my humor isn't for everyone.

2. I totally agree that it would normally be totally unnecessary to mention that a certain athlete is very bad looking, and I have NEVER done that with any other athlete (ever), in my entire life, since I am well aware that people can't help the way their face looks, as it is just the way they are born, and thus it is messed up to diss them for having an ugly face. However, given that she herself has gone so far as to say she can't help being prettier than her peers (PUH-lease...), she opened herself up to it, so, if she's gonna be so ridiculous as to say something like that, AND random people with terrible vision are going to idiotically attempt to even AGREE with that ridiculous nonsense, due to getting so caught up in the mob mentality of being a fan of her and everything she does/says no matter what where she can do no wrong in their eyes, and everything is perfect about her in their eyes, it just begs a correcting counter-response. In any case, I am done with that, as I strongly dislike discussing looks, and only did it as a necessary evil, since she and her fans forced me to, by implying that she's way prettier than her peers (so, given that's she clearly isn't, I had to be like "uh... no...", it's not my fault they said incorrect stuff, blame them, not me.))

[nicest person ever]

Basically, part of the reason why I am the nicest person of all time ever, is that when I see pure evil, I rebel AGAINST it. For example, if I had been alive in the 1930's-40's, when the Nazis in Germany were cheering wildly for Hitler, and saying that he was such a great guy, even though he clealry wasn't, I would've been like "DUDES, you are all WRONG. This guy is a total JERK! I can't believe you guys are having so much trouble noticing this!"

Identically, when an extremely mean, crappy person like Lolo acts like a huge JERK towards all her peers, and uses cheap propaganda tactics to amass a huge following of hypnotized non-thinking drones drooling in admiration of her, I feel that same duty to be as nice to the human race as I can, and rebel against that evil nazi-esque regime that she is trying to inject into the womens 100 hurdles. I feel like it would be un-nice of me, as far as my responsibility to the human race, to not say something, and try to get people to realize they are being duped into being fans of a giant MEANO!

So you see, I am the nicest person ever, if you think about it in like, a grander sense, as far as being nice to the human race OVERALL, rather than just nit picking the individual posts I have to make to accomplish that overall level of niceness in the grand scheme of things.

Get it?

[Gabriella]

Thanks to YouTube I caught up on the final. Harper looked aggressive and is now obviously one of the medal favourites for London. I wonder, with the pressure & expectation on the shoulders of Pearson, could Harper even sneak in & get the big one again?

Respect to Lolo for making the team; like most I thought she'd be lucky to make the final here. She did go a bit OTT after the race, but let's face it, she's going to the Olympics, who wouldnt be jumping with joy?

We're not exposed to her as much over here in the UK, but she does have an air about her, but let's face it, I think most women on the track have an inner b*tch. There did seem a lot of tension in that press room, but that's good. Reminds me of Gwen Barcelona 92

[nicest person ever]

(and just in case you still don't understand my sense of humor, the previous post I wrote (the one with the 1930's comparison), for example, was intended to be funny. If you were reading my previous post in a serious tone, instead of as intentionally-ridiculous tongue-in-cheek humor, then you are doing it wrong).

[nicest person ever]

Thanks to YouTube I caught up on the final. Harper looked aggressive and is now obviously one of the medal favourites for London. I wonder, with the pressure & expectation on the shoulders of Pearson, could Harper even sneak in & get the big one again?

Respect to Lolo for making the team; like most I thought she'd be lucky to make the final here. She did go a bit OTT after the race, but let's face it, she's going to the Olympics, who wouldnt be jumping with joy?

We're not exposed to her as much over here in the UK, but she does have an air about her, but let's face it, I think most women on the track have an inner b*tch. There did seem a lot of tension in that press room, but that's good. Reminds me of Gwen Barcelona 92

I agree. I actually like the tension aspect of how pissed off Dawn seems to be getting, because of Lolo's atrocious behavior. It's almost cinematic in nature. I think it will motivate Dawn to put up some AMAZING performances (especially she ends up in Lolo's heat in the semis or something) in London. You can tell she's just dying to lay the smackdown on Lolo at this point, and the bigger the stage, the better, as she is fed up of being ignored by everyone in favor of America's "dreamgirl".

I can't wait to see if that burning anger in Dawn's gut will be enough to push her past Pearson or not. If Pearson runs a perfect race, I don't think she can, but, if Pearson screws up even just a tiny bit, I think a hellbent Dawn, focused on zooming past Lolo, could accidentally pass Sally on the way to the line as well! It's not outside the realm of possibility! Go Dawn!!!

[ATK]

Respect to Lolo for making the team; like most I thought she'd be lucky to make the final here. She did go a bit OTT after the race, but let's face it, she's going to the Olympics, who wouldnt be jumping with joy?

How about the 400m kid who took a shotgun to the legs 3 years ago...

[slowjo]

Respect to Lolo for making the team; like most I thought she'd be lucky to make the final here. She did go a bit OTT after the race, but let's face it, she's going to the Olympics, who wouldnt be jumping with joy?

How about the 400m kid who took a shotgun to the legs 3 years ago...

I knew nothing about Nellum and his story until yesterday. I want to learn more about him. What an inspiration.

let's face it though...LA shooting, black man....not nearly as compelling as you know who....

Probably 70% or more of the US track team grew up in poor or low income families....hell many of us did. It ain't that special...being shot in BOTH legs and not only surving but making the US Olympic team in one of the deepest events there is? AWESOME!

I leave tomorrow for the Canadian trials...women's hurdles should be great. And no drama queens involved.

[nicest person ever]

Yea, I've watched him run in person a few times (I'm a UCLA fan, but some of my friends are USC fans (an unfortunate downside to growing up in Los Angeles, lol (fuck USC! Go Bruins!)), so I've gone to a bunch of USC track meets over the years, and I've seen him run in person a couple times. I was very impressed seeing him run, knowing what he had been through. As much as I hate USC, I made an exception when it came to that guy, he's pretty sick, I just can't root against the guy, despite the fact that he chose the most evil, fucked up college in the history of the planet (why oh whyyyy did he have to go to THERE of all colleges. Sigh.)

He was actually a huge phenom when he was in high school, I think he was the #1 400m runner in the entire state of California, and had set records and stuff, so, it was an exceptionally raw deal when he got shot in the leg, considering that at the time, he was looking like he was on track to be one of the next big superstars in the 400m, like, on a national level. I actually think if he hadn't gotten shot, there's a legitimate chance he might have ended up as one of the top 400m guys in the U.S. right now, it's pretty sickening to think about. But, it seems like the nerve damage has been healing pretty well, albeit very slowly, it took many years, but, he's still a young guy, and who knows, maybe now that he has gotten back to where he was before the incident, in terms of his times, maybe he will be able to basically continue improving in the way that he would've had it never happened, albeit with a 4 year chunk of time taken away, but still, if he is able to keep improving, if the nerve damage has healed enough to being almost back to normal, maybe we will still get to see him rise to elite (as in, medal contender-elite) level some day in the next few years, you never know. Now THAT would indeed be a story worth following.

[Speedster]

I leave tomorrow for the Canadian trials...women's hurdles should be great. And no drama queens involved.

Can you really compare Lolo's reaction in 2008 with Felician's in 2004?

[slowjo]

I leave tomorrow for the Canadian trials...women's hurdles should be great. And no drama queens involved.

Can you really compare Lolo's reaction in 2008 with Felician's in 2004?

Huh? I did no such thing.

I never criticized Lolo's reaction-I thought she handled it very well.

I give people a lot of slack when they have such a huge disappointment-I can't imagine how awful it must feel.

[Speedster]

I leave tomorrow for the Canadian trials...women's hurdles should be great. And no drama queens involved.

Can you really compare Lolo's reaction in 2008 with Felician's in 2004?

Huh? I did no such thing.

I never criticized Lolo's reaction-I thought she handled it very well.

I give people a lot of slack when they have such a huge disappointment-I can't imagine how awful it must feel.

I feel a right bitch having written that... sorry I guess PF's spike throwing was justified give what she'd lost. While there has been no drama up until now from the CAN females, they've got a lot of A Qs and people are going to miss out. One clash with another lane and it could be a different story.

[jazzcyclist]

The true measure of an athlete's character is not revealed in times of victory and triumph, rather it is revealed in times defeat and failure. It is not a display of graciousness when the person standing on the top step of the medal stand reaches down to shake the hands of the athletes on the lower steps. Lolo's reaction after the 2008 and 2012 Olympic Trials finals didn't reveal much about her character IMO. Her character was revealed after the Beijing Olympic final, right after she had experienced one of the most catastrophic failures in Olympic history, and I challenge anyone to find an example of a greater display of graciousness and sportsmanship than what Lolo showed on August 19, 2008.

Geaux Leauxleaux!

[maroon]

The true measure of an athlete's character is not revealed in times of victory and triumph, rather it is revealed in times defeat and failure. It is not a display of graciousness when the person standing on the top step of the medal stand reaches down to shake the hands of the athletes on the lower steps. Lolo's reaction after the 2008 and 2012 Olympic Trials finals didn't reveal much about her character IMO. Her character was revealed after the Beijing Olympic final, right after she had experienced one of the most catastrophic failures in Olympic history, and I challenge anyone to find an example of a greater display of graciousness and sportsmanship than what Lolo showed on August 19, 2008.

Geaux Leauxleaux!

jazzcyclist -- i agree -- this is what nicest person ever and others fail to recognize. a big part of her story is the way she reacted to that loss, including during her post-race interviews. in fact she gave full credit to all the medalists -- i think she said something to the effect of "its a hurdles race and if you cant get over all the hurdles then you don't deserve to win". (it was also humanizing -- to me at least -- to see her saying "fuck" as she crossed the line. you just sensed that she was being real in that moment).

having said that, i am not trying to convince anybody to like her -- just explaining why, in part, she is popular with many, especially the casual track and field/olympics fan.

[TrackDaddy]

Drats!

Lolo did it again!

Stole Dawn's thunder and took all the attention away.

This time she did it Dawn's TnFnews victory thread.

And jazz, Lolo is not Gail Devers who had a couple of Olympic nightmares in the 100h. A true icon of the sport and who many consider the greatest hurdler ever.

When Lolo fell, in all honesty, in the GRAND SCHEME, it wasn't nearly as big of a deal as the media made it out to be.

[lonewolf]

Amen to jazz and maroon.. being gracious is easy for winners, not so for losers. Lolo carried defeat off perfectly in 2008. Let her rejoice in 2012.

[maroon]

dawn has probably been mentioned here more than in any other thread on t&fn, so she should be happy she gets to be in lolo's penumbra. in fact i f i were her that would be my strategy -- stop whining and figure out how to piggyback off of lolo's popularity.

[nicest person ever]

That's pretty fucked up yo

[TrackDaddy]

Amen to jazz and maroon.. being gracious is easy for winners, not so for losers. Lolo carried defeat off perfectly in 2008. Let her rejoice in 2012.

I thought you were "done?"

I agree she was pretty gracious back then. But she did a horrible job this weekend rolling on the track slapping Dawn on her back disrespectfully like she really didnt accomplish anything or matter.

Has any other 3rd place finisher come close to acting like that?

[jazzcyclist]

And jazz, Lolo is not Gail Devers who had a couple of Olympic nightmares in the 100h. A true icon of the sport and who many consider the greatest hurdler ever.

I never brought Devers up but now that you mentioned her, how is her 1992 catastrophe any worse than Lolo's 2008 catastrophe?

When Lolo fell, in all honesty, in the GRAND SCHEME, it wasn't nearly as big of a deal as the media made it out to be.

In the grand scheme of things, the whole Olympics is trivial. After all, it's only sport and entertainment. What's your point?

[lonewolf]

[I thought you were "done?"

No, no, I meant I was done chastizing the nastiess person ever.

[Marlow]

she did a horrible job this weekend rolling on the track slapping Dawn on her back disrespectfully like she really didnt accomplish anything or matter. Has any other 3rd place finisher come close to acting like that?

What the heck were you watching?! Looking down from the West Grandstand I saw an athlete living in the moment, unselfconsciously celebrating a somewhat unexpected glorious moment. I guess one's perspective depends of one's sub-conscious biases or lack there-of.

[jazzcyclist]

Has any other 3rd place finisher come close to acting like that?

Yes, and second place finishers too. You want me to start a list.

[TrackDaddy]

[I thought you were "done?"

No, no, I meant I was done chastizing the nastiess person ever.

[TrackDaddy]

Has any other 3rd place finisher come close to acting like that?

Yes, and second place finishers too. You want me to start a list.

Yes, but only list those who've been past favorites to win Olympic gold.

[nicest person ever]

Amen to jazz and maroon.. being gracious is easy for winners, not so for losers. Lolo carried defeat off perfectly in 2008. Let her rejoice in 2012.

I thought you were "done?"

I agree she was pretty gracious back then. But she did a horrible job this weekend rolling on the track slapping Dawn on her back disrespectfully like she really didnt accomplish anything or matter.

Has any other 3rd place finisher come close to acting like that?

Not to even mention how she acts in all the interviews and press conferences. She can't help that all the interviews direct all their attention and her, and ignore the 2 people who defeated her, I get that, BUT, it does NOT mean that she needs to abuse it to such an absurdly cringeworthy extent the way she does, intentionally giving extremely long, entire-life-story answers every time, never acknowledging her teammates ever the whole time, as she hogs up massive airtime, over and over, basking infinitely in her 3rd place glory, being the reigning Olympic champ and all (oh wait...), hogging it up for every last ounce and drop she can squeeze it for, while her teammates awkwardly shift in their chairs, cringing. BARFFFFFFFF!!!!!! That was easily the most stomach turning, cringeworthy post-race press conference I have ever watched.

As Gabrielle noted though,the one small good thing that did come out of it was that Dawn looked PIIIIIIIISSSSSEDDDDD to utter hell. Like, SUPREMELY pissed. In fact, it's been months, maybe even years since the last time I've seen someone with as hardcore of a deep, burning fury trapped inside them as Dawn in that press conference. Holy shit dude, that was awesome lol. I can only imagine the types of times she will drop the next time Lolo is beside her on the track, it's gonna be a MASSACRE!!!

[TrackDaddy]

she did a horrible job this weekend rolling on the track slapping Dawn on her back disrespectfully like she really didnt accomplish anything or matter. Has any other 3rd place finisher come close to acting like that?

What the heck were you watching?! Looking down from the West Grandstand I saw an athlete living in the moment, unselfconsciously celebrating a somewhat unexpected glorious moment. I guess one's perspective depends of one's sub-conscious biases or lack there-of.

No bias here (excet she went to LSU )

Actually I'm far from the only person to criticize her for the way she behaved.

On TV it was shameful and for the record, I'm not ant-Lolo (although I preferred Raasin in college .

[vip]

The next time Lolo has back surgery, sees her performances fall off a cliff, gets written off by her competitors and most experts, then surprises everyone by making the Olympic team, she should act like nothing happened.

Got it.

[jazzcyclist]

Has any other 3rd place finisher come close to acting like that?

Yes, and second place finishers too. You want me to start a list.

Yes, but only list those who've been past favorites to win Olympic gold.

That's called moving the target. What are you going to do next, say that it has to be a hurdles race that took place in Eugene in the 21st century on a Sunday?

[TrackDaddy]

And jazz, Lolo is not Gail Devers who had a couple of Olympic nightmares in the 100h. A true icon of the sport and who many consider the greatest hurdler ever.

I never brought Devers up but now that you mentioned her, how is her 1992 catastrophe any worse than Lolo's 2008 catastrophe?

When Lolo fell, in all honesty, in the GRAND SCHEME, it wasn't nearly as big of a deal as the media made it out to be.

In the grand scheme of things, the whole Olympics is trivial. After all, it's only sport and entertainment. What's your point?

My point is that Devers is TRULY a dominant presence in the event ala a Sally Pearson. Lolo had a good year in 2008 and was favored.

So in the GRAND SCHEME (career and overall event effect) how much of a defined legacy is Lolo truly leaving? What had she done before or since 2008 to solidify or justify the level of attention she receives? Not a whole lot unfortunately.

How does it compare to Dawn's?

[TrackDaddy]

The next time Lolo has back surgery, sees her performances fall off a cliff, gets written off by her competitors and most experts, then surprises everyone by making the Olympic team, she should act like nothing happened.

Got it.

She should act like what happened...actually did. Not acting as though the moment was all about her. She finished 3rd to the reigning Olympic champ and the US champion and rightfully should have deferred to them appropriately.

Has Kellie ever made an Olympic team? She acted the SAME way last year when she WON the US championship. Honestly, I can't remember what 3rd place did.

Then...

Attempting to rag on the field in her post race interview about how no one thought she'd be 3rd was over the top with the gymnastics rountine. Who didnt believe she could run 13 flat and finish 3rd?

[jazzcyclist]

My point is that Devers is TRULY a dominant presence in the event ala a Sally Pearson. Lolo had a good year in 2008 and was favored.

So in the GRAND SCHEME (career and overall event effect) how much of a defined legacy is Lolo truly leaving? What had she done before or since 2008 to solidify or justify the level of attention she receives? Not a whole lot unfortunately.

How does it compare to Dawn's?

Did anyone on this board try to put her on the level of Devers? You wrong to even consider putting Pearson in Devers' league. Like Lolo, Pearson has only had one dominant year.