But that's the whole point, it shouldn't be 'what the athlete is more comfortable with' it should be what is the most efficient, fastest and best for the team. Do you think Marlies got to use the technique she was most comfortable with ??
This is why GDR still hold the world record and teams that are faster on paper have fail to break the record 27 years.
mump boy wrote:But that's the whole point, it shouldn't be 'what the athlete is more comfortable with' it should be what is the most efficient, fastest and best for the team. Do you think Marlies got to use the technique she was most comfortable with ??
This is why GDR still hold the world record and teams that are faster on paper have fail to break the record 27 years.
I also think Marlies would have been given countless opportunities to practice the three point start with her team mates, likely to be the exact person she would change with, something that's not available to Allyson at any point, outside of the very limited training camps the US team hold.
The GDR team hold the record because of training over and over again to nail those exchanges with a common group of athletes. Given the selection of US teams, that's not going to happen so having athletes confident with the arrangements provides the greatest chance of success.
Speedster wrote:I also think Marlies would have been given countless opportunities to practice the three point start with her team mates, likely to be the exact person she would change with, something that's not available to Allyson at any point, outside of the very limited training camps the US team hold.
The GDR team hold the record because of training over and over again to nail those exchanges with a common group of athletes. Given the selection of US teams, that's not going to happen so having athletes confident with the arrangements provides the greatest chance of success.
Ingrid Auerswald and Marlies Göhr were running position three and four in the GDR relay for 9 years, they were also in the same club, SC Motor Jena. So they had more opportunity to practice and run together than you could possibly give anyone else nowadays.
mump boy wrote:But that's the whole point, it shouldn't be 'what the athlete is more comfortable with' it should be what is the most efficient, fastest and best for the team. Do you think Marlies got to use the technique she was most comfortable with ??
This is why GDR still hold the world record and teams that are faster on paper have fail to break the record 27 years.
I also think Marlies would have been given countless opportunities to practice the three point start with her team mates, likely to be the exact person she would change with, something that's not available to Allyson at any point, outside of the very limited training camps the US team hold.
The GDR team hold the record because of training over and over again to nail those exchanges with a common group of athletes. Given the selection of US teams, that's not going to happen so having athletes confident with the arrangements provides the greatest chance of success.
I'm not blaming Allyson, it is what it is but i'mnot sure that any of the team are that confident in any of the exchanges
I think that there is still one spot (at least) in the 4x100 that is open.... As it now stands I would say...
Madison Felix Jeter (iffy)
are set on the relay.
BK is not 'owning' that 4th spot in the relay and unless Jeter finds her 10.9/10.8/10.7 form she might find herself on the outside looking in at Trials in the 100 and the 200.
With the performances of Duncan, SRR, Gardener and Tarmoh... I think things might not be as clear cut as some assumes. Note we haven't taken into consideration the likes of Anderson, Barber, Williams, Lee who (although unlikely) might spring a surprise.
Do they tinker with that Madison - Felix - Knight - Jeter formation for someone faster/more in form or do they leave it as it is and hopes that practice makes perfect?
Like I just posted in the sanya thread, Jeter and Felix have their legs locked as long as they make the team. Yes jeter looks iff in her past races, but she is not going anywhere on that relay. Madison-Felix-Duncan-Jeter is a solid team that I think could be faster than last year by London. Sanya could replace Duncan if she runs faster and makes the team ahead of her in the 200, and Duncan doesn't run something crazy in the 100. I don't know if she would make the team better though.
Knowing relay guru Jon Drummond's thoughts on the issue, I believe nothing short of a failure to make a Trials final will remove Knight(who put up a sparkling 11.29 yesterday) from the 4x1, even if she runs over 23. It's mind-boggling.
What is the priority? The win or the time? I think the US team with Knight in 11.29/22.46 form has the measure of anything JAM can put up at this stage, unless Simpson and Stewart are in a big block of training to prepare for their trials.
The Penn Relays team is the one I would go with if the Trials go to form to maintain consistency.
Speedster wrote:What is the priority? The win or the time? I think the US team with Knight in 11.29/22.46 form has the measure of anything JAM can put up at this stage, unless Simpson and Stewart are in a big block of training to prepare for their trials.
The Penn Relays team is the one I would go with if the Trials go to form to maintain consistency.
The way its looking, the US can throw together multiple teams and will probably still be able to beat Jamaica. Only half of Jamaica's team looks like they will be where they should be come London,
guru wrote:Knowing relay guru Jon Drummond's thoughts on the issue, I believe nothing short of a failure to make a Trials final will remove Knight(who put up a sparkling 11.29 yesterday) from the 4x1, even if she runs over 23. It's mind-boggling.
It's not mind-boggling, it's unfair. All that nonsense about chemistry and experience is BS; Knight hasn't run enough relays compared to collegiates or other pros to be a "priority" above athletes who are clearly faster at 100m - or running around a turn. I hope it doesn't come down to it, but if Knight doesn't make the 100m final and also doesn't make top-3 in the 200m, and is placed in the relay over another athlete who has, then I would hope the athlete who loses a spot would sue.
I agree with Drummond's decision not to worship the false god of footspeed, but if Knight's baton skills are so great, why does he have her running the scratch leg where coaches normally hide sprinters with weak baton skills? It doesn't take much practice to get someone ready to run the scratch leg.
preston wrote: I hope it doesn't come down to it, but if Knight doesn't make the 100m final and also doesn't make top-3 in the 200m, and is placed in the relay over another athlete who has, then I would hope the athlete who loses a spot would sue.
Top 8 in 100, or top 4 in 200. Barring that, going by the published Olympic team processing rules she's out.
jazzcyclist wrote:I agree with Drummond's decision not to worship the false god of footspeed, but if Knight's baton skills are so great, why does he have her running the scratch leg where coaches normally hide sprinters with weak baton skills? It doesn't take much practice to get someone ready to run the scratch leg.
Knight's never ran outdoor in college, and has ran a professional relay 3 or 4 times so far... Duncan has been running LSU relays for the past 3 years. Yet Bianca has more experience.
jazzcyclist wrote:I agree with Drummond's decision not to worship the false god of footspeed, but if Knight's baton skills are so great, why does he have her running the scratch leg where coaches normally hide sprinters with weak baton skills? It doesn't take much practice to get someone ready to run the scratch leg.
Knight's never ran outdoor in college, and has ran a professional relay 3 or 4 times so far... Duncan has been running LSU relays for the past 3 years. Yet Bianca has more experience.
Not only has Duncan run three years of college relays without a single mishap, she's run second, third and fourth legs, which means that she's comfortable using both her left and right hands, to give and recieve the baton. LSU did have a couple of DQ'sand DNF's while she was there, but it never happened on her exchange. She even made a great save on one occasion when the incoming runner came in on the wrond side of the lane.
jazzcyclist wrote:I agree with Drummond's decision not to worship the false god of footspeed, but if Knight's baton skills are so great, why does he have her running the scratch leg where coaches normally hide sprinters with weak baton skills? It doesn't take much practice to get someone ready to run the scratch leg.
Knight's never ran outdoor in college, and has ran a professional relay 3 or 4 times so far... Duncan has been running LSU relays for the past 3 years. Yet Bianca has more experience.
Not only has Duncan run three years of college relays without a single mishap, she's run second, third and fourth legs, which means that she's comfortable using both her left and right hands, to give and recieve the baton. LSU did have a couple of DQ'sand DNF's while she was there, but it never happened on her exchange. She even made a great save on one occasion when the incoming runner came in on the wrond side of the lane.
Thanks I didn't even know those facts.
How was it that she beat out Solomon for a relay spot in the final last year? and all the 100m and 200m runners who finished ahead/made the team last year? She was the 25th fastest American over 100m and 6th over 200m, and she probably is at the top of the list of athletes with the least relay experience...
Just looked at the list of Trials entries on the USATF website. I know there's still plenty of time to declare, and many athletes that are gonna compete aren't listed yet, but still: Why is Kimberlyn Duncan's 100m entry listed as scratched?
j-a-m wrote:Just looked at the list of Trials entries on the USATF website. I know there's still plenty of time to declare, and many athletes that are gonna compete aren't listed yet, but still: Why is Kimberlyn Duncan's 100m entry listed as scratched?
Because she announced on a local sports talk radio show a couple of days ago that she's not running the 100 at the trials.
j-a-m wrote:Just looked at the list of Trials entries on the USATF website. I know there's still plenty of time to declare, and many athletes that are gonna compete aren't listed yet, but still: Why is Kimberlyn Duncan's 100m entry listed as scratched?
Because she announced on a local sports talk radio show a couple of days ago that she's not running the 100 at the trials.
guru wrote:Knowing relay guru Jon Drummond's thoughts on the issue, I believe nothing short of a failure to make a Trials final will remove Knight(who put up a sparkling 11.29 yesterday) from the 4x1, even if she runs over 23. It's mind-boggling.
It's not mind-boggling, it's unfair. All that nonsense about chemistry and experience is BS; Knight hasn't run enough relays compared to collegiates or other pros to be a "priority" above athletes who are clearly faster at 100m - or running around a turn. I hope it doesn't come down to it, but if Knight doesn't make the 100m final and also doesn't make top-3 in the 200m, and is placed in the relay over another athlete who has, then I would hope the athlete who loses a spot would sue.
This isn't all that difficult for me to understand. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but has it occured to anyone besides me that Adidas wants a face on the relay?
In the past they had some combination of BK, Corvette (pregnant) and AF who now runs for Nike. If Sanya and Jeter -who both run for Nike- are on it in London and Nike has already approached and secured Duncan...
I say we just take the winning 4x100 from NCAA and run them. They have had all year of practice, hand offs are crisp, and can over come the foot speed of VCB and SAF. Right?!
Stop it with the under hand passes, no team with that hand off wins. Yes you MUST adjust the stick to make the next hand off. It requires the incoming runner to get closer to the out going and slow down the stick more than overhand, i.e. push passes. I will repeat this until someone gets it, flawed handoffs are as much about the race as is hitting a hurdle in a hurdle race. You train all the time to not have these things happen but they do. As far as the US mishaps the glaring problem that some of you love to ignore, is that the mishaps have not been the same! 2005, incoming runner does not release the stick, drop. 2009, all hand offs completed safely, UK protest for an EARLY hand off, which resulted due to a safe mark so we did not drop the stick, dq (on I think was bogus and wrong). 2011, incoming runner collides with opposing team, nothing to do with stick work at all. So upon further review this is just mental masturbation for you all. I can go back farther but we will find medals, and success. Further eroding the false perception that there is something wrong with our relay program. BTW, I have the same arguments with some of the folks in USATF that also believe we need some wide sweeping changes. Those changes that have been implemented, and produced last years mishap, but don't tell anyone. Oops, we are talking about the women. There is even less to draw on when we discuss when women relays. SMDH
TrackDaddy wrote:This isn't all that difficult for me to understand. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but has it occured to anyone besides me that Adidas wants a face on the relay?
In the past they had some combination of BK, Corvette (pregnant) and AF who now runs for Nike. If Sanya and Jeter -who both run for Nike- are on it in London and Nike has already approached and secured Duncan...
I'll defer to Mars Blackmon for further analysis.
If by past do you mean last year? Because that's the first time Bianca and Hooker were on any international relay.
Smoke wrote:I say we just take the winning 4x100 from NCAA and run them. They have had all year of practice, hand offs are crisp, and can over come the foot speed of VCB and SAF. Right?!
Stop it with the .... I will repeat this until someone gets it, flawed handoffs are as much about the race as is hitting a hurdle in a hurdle race. You train all the time to not have these things happen but they do. As far as the US mishaps the glaring problem that some of you love to ignore, is that the mishaps have not been the same! 2005, incoming runner does not release the stick, drop. 2009, all hand offs completed safely, UK protest for an EARLY hand off, which resulted due to a safe mark so we did not drop the stick, dq (on I think was bogus and wrong). 2011, incoming runner collides with opposing team, nothing to do with stick work at all. So upon further review this is just mental masturbation for you all. I can go back farther but we will find medals, and success. Further eroding the false perception that there is something wrong with our relay program. BTW, I have the same arguments with some of the folks in USATF that also believe we need some wide sweeping changes. Those changes that have been implemented, and produced last years mishap, but don't tell anyone. Oops, we are talking about the women. There is even less to draw on when we discuss when women relays. SMDH
Smoke, Thanks for clearing up "my false perception that there is something wrong with our relay program." That the US finds different ways to screw up each time is proof that the US relay program is rock solid. Speaking of going further back, the US men and women 4x1's combined have 5 gold and 2 silver medals from the last 16 opprtinities (OG's And WC's). Most due to exchange problems. If anyone at USATF is advocating "wide sweeping changes", I would love to know how they are going about that.
TrackDaddy wrote:This isn't all that difficult for me to understand. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but has it occured to anyone besides me that Adidas wants a face on the relay?
In the past they had some combination of BK, Corvette (pregnant) and AF who now runs for Nike. If Sanya and Jeter -who both run for Nike- are on it in London and Nike has already approached and secured Duncan...
I'll defer to Mars Blackmon for further analysis.
If by past do you mean last year? Because that's the first time Bianca and Hooker were on any international relay.
Actually the point was that Adidas had THE face on the relay when they had AF, and at least A face (with Hooker/BK) after she left for Nike.
As a fan of the sport, I am disappointed that we won't get to see her run, but as a fan of SRR I understand her focus is elsewhere and she might spread herself too thin. Off a fly, she is probably one of the fastest in the US, up there with Jeter and Felix.
Madison/Felix/SRR/Jeter - with decent exchanges that's your WR team right there.
guru wrote:Brother I hear you. If Tarmoh beats Knight again this weekend there may be a glimmer of hope that Drummond will pry open his mind on that 3-slot.
I agree, and seeing as how Knight will probably be fighting for 5th anyway in the 200, I hope he reconsiders the favoritism he had before the trials.
Last edited by ATK on Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
