About That London US Women's 4x100


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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby mump boy » Tue May 22, 2012 11:58 pm

But that's the whole point, it shouldn't be 'what the athlete is more comfortable with' it should be what is the most efficient, fastest and best for the team. Do you think Marlies got to use the technique she was most comfortable with ??

This is why GDR still hold the world record and teams that are faster on paper have fail to break the record 27 years.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Speedster » Wed May 23, 2012 2:06 am

mump boy wrote:But that's the whole point, it shouldn't be 'what the athlete is more comfortable with' it should be what is the most efficient, fastest and best for the team. Do you think Marlies got to use the technique she was most comfortable with ??

This is why GDR still hold the world record and teams that are faster on paper have fail to break the record 27 years.


I also think Marlies would have been given countless opportunities to practice the three point start with her team mates, likely to be the exact person she would change with, something that's not available to Allyson at any point, outside of the very limited training camps the US team hold.

The GDR team hold the record because of training over and over again to nail those exchanges with a common group of athletes. Given the selection of US teams, that's not going to happen so having athletes confident with the arrangements provides the greatest chance of success.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby norunner » Wed May 23, 2012 3:03 am

Speedster wrote:I also think Marlies would have been given countless opportunities to practice the three point start with her team mates, likely to be the exact person she would change with, something that's not available to Allyson at any point, outside of the very limited training camps the US team hold.

The GDR team hold the record because of training over and over again to nail those exchanges with a common group of athletes. Given the selection of US teams, that's not going to happen so having athletes confident with the arrangements provides the greatest chance of success.
Ingrid Auerswald and Marlies Göhr were running position three and four in the GDR relay for 9 years, they were also in the same club, SC Motor Jena. So they had more opportunity to practice and run together than you could possibly give anyone else nowadays.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby mump boy » Wed May 23, 2012 3:37 am

Speedster wrote:
mump boy wrote:But that's the whole point, it shouldn't be 'what the athlete is more comfortable with' it should be what is the most efficient, fastest and best for the team. Do you think Marlies got to use the technique she was most comfortable with ??

This is why GDR still hold the world record and teams that are faster on paper have fail to break the record 27 years.


I also think Marlies would have been given countless opportunities to practice the three point start with her team mates, likely to be the exact person she would change with, something that's not available to Allyson at any point, outside of the very limited training camps the US team hold.

The GDR team hold the record because of training over and over again to nail those exchanges with a common group of athletes. Given the selection of US teams, that's not going to happen so having athletes confident with the arrangements provides the greatest chance of success.


I'm not blaming Allyson, it is what it is but i'mnot sure that any of the team are that confident in any of the exchanges :?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby t_monk » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:34 am

I think that there is still one spot (at least) in the 4x100 that is open.... As it now stands I would say...

Madison
Felix
Jeter (iffy)

are set on the relay.

BK is not 'owning' that 4th spot in the relay and unless Jeter finds her 10.9/10.8/10.7 form she might find herself on the outside looking in at Trials in the 100 and the 200.

With the performances of Duncan, SRR, Gardener and Tarmoh... I think things might not be as clear cut as some assumes. Note we haven't taken into consideration the likes of Anderson, Barber, Williams, Lee who (although unlikely) might spring a surprise.

Do they tinker with that Madison - Felix - Knight - Jeter formation for someone faster/more in form or do they leave it as it is and hopes that practice makes perfect?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:57 am

Like I just posted in the sanya thread, Jeter and Felix have their legs locked as long as they make the team. Yes jeter looks iff in her past races, but she is not going anywhere on that relay.
Madison-Felix-Duncan-Jeter is a solid team that I think could be faster than last year by London.
Sanya could replace Duncan if she runs faster and makes the team ahead of her in the 200, and Duncan doesn't run something crazy in the 100. I don't know if she would make the team better though.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:12 pm

Knowing relay guru Jon Drummond's thoughts on the issue, I believe nothing short of a failure to make a Trials final will remove Knight(who put up a sparkling 11.29 yesterday) from the 4x1, even if she runs over 23. It's mind-boggling.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Speedster » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:34 pm

What is the priority? The win or the time? I think the US team with Knight in 11.29/22.46 form has the measure of anything JAM can put up at this stage, unless Simpson and Stewart are in a big block of training to prepare for their trials.

The Penn Relays team is the one I would go with if the Trials go to form to maintain consistency.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:46 pm

Speedster wrote:What is the priority? The win or the time? I think the US team with Knight in 11.29/22.46 form has the measure of anything JAM can put up at this stage, unless Simpson and Stewart are in a big block of training to prepare for their trials.

The Penn Relays team is the one I would go with if the Trials go to form to maintain consistency.

The way its looking, the US can throw together multiple teams and will probably still be able to beat Jamaica. Only half of Jamaica's team looks like they will be where they should be come London,
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby preston » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:08 pm

guru wrote:Knowing relay guru Jon Drummond's thoughts on the issue, I believe nothing short of a failure to make a Trials final will remove Knight(who put up a sparkling 11.29 yesterday) from the 4x1, even if she runs over 23. It's mind-boggling.

It's not mind-boggling, it's unfair. All that nonsense about chemistry and experience is BS; Knight hasn't run enough relays compared to collegiates or other pros to be a "priority" above athletes who are clearly faster at 100m - or running around a turn. I hope it doesn't come down to it, but if Knight doesn't make the 100m final and also doesn't make top-3 in the 200m, and is placed in the relay over another athlete who has, then I would hope the athlete who loses a spot would sue.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:48 pm

I agree with Drummond's decision not to worship the false god of footspeed, but if Knight's baton skills are so great, why does he have her running the scratch leg where coaches normally hide sprinters with weak baton skills? It doesn't take much practice to get someone ready to run the scratch leg.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:57 pm

preston wrote: I hope it doesn't come down to it, but if Knight doesn't make the 100m final and also doesn't make top-3 in the 200m, and is placed in the relay over another athlete who has, then I would hope the athlete who loses a spot would sue.



Top 8 in 100, or top 4 in 200. Barring that, going by the published Olympic team processing rules she's out.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:13 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I agree with Drummond's decision not to worship the false god of footspeed, but if Knight's baton skills are so great, why does he have her running the scratch leg where coaches normally hide sprinters with weak baton skills? It doesn't take much practice to get someone ready to run the scratch leg.

Knight's never ran outdoor in college, and has ran a professional relay 3 or 4 times so far...
Duncan has been running LSU relays for the past 3 years.
Yet Bianca has more experience.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:27 pm

ATK wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:I agree with Drummond's decision not to worship the false god of footspeed, but if Knight's baton skills are so great, why does he have her running the scratch leg where coaches normally hide sprinters with weak baton skills? It doesn't take much practice to get someone ready to run the scratch leg.

Knight's never ran outdoor in college, and has ran a professional relay 3 or 4 times so far...
Duncan has been running LSU relays for the past 3 years.
Yet Bianca has more experience.

Not only has Duncan run three years of college relays without a single mishap, she's run second, third and fourth legs, which means that she's comfortable using both her left and right hands, to give and recieve the baton. LSU did have a couple of DQ'sand DNF's while she was there, but it never happened on her exchange. She even made a great save on one occasion when the incoming runner came in on the wrond side of the lane.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:38 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
ATK wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:I agree with Drummond's decision not to worship the false god of footspeed, but if Knight's baton skills are so great, why does he have her running the scratch leg where coaches normally hide sprinters with weak baton skills? It doesn't take much practice to get someone ready to run the scratch leg.

Knight's never ran outdoor in college, and has ran a professional relay 3 or 4 times so far...
Duncan has been running LSU relays for the past 3 years.
Yet Bianca has more experience.

Not only has Duncan run three years of college relays without a single mishap, she's run second, third and fourth legs, which means that she's comfortable using both her left and right hands, to give and recieve the baton. LSU did have a couple of DQ'sand DNF's while she was there, but it never happened on her exchange. She even made a great save on one occasion when the incoming runner came in on the wrond side of the lane.

Thanks I didn't even know those facts.

How was it that she beat out Solomon for a relay spot in the final last year? and all the 100m and 200m runners who finished ahead/made the team last year?
She was the 25th fastest American over 100m and 6th over 200m, and she probably is at the top of the list of athletes with the least relay experience...
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby j-a-m » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:36 pm

Just looked at the list of Trials entries on the USATF website. I know there's still plenty of time to declare, and many athletes that are gonna compete aren't listed yet, but still: Why is Kimberlyn Duncan's 100m entry listed as scratched?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:41 pm

j-a-m wrote:Just looked at the list of Trials entries on the USATF website. I know there's still plenty of time to declare, and many athletes that are gonna compete aren't listed yet, but still: Why is Kimberlyn Duncan's 100m entry listed as scratched?

Because she announced on a local sports talk radio show a couple of days ago that she's not running the 100 at the trials.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby j-a-m » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:43 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
j-a-m wrote:Just looked at the list of Trials entries on the USATF website. I know there's still plenty of time to declare, and many athletes that are gonna compete aren't listed yet, but still: Why is Kimberlyn Duncan's 100m entry listed as scratched?

Because she announced on a local sports talk radio show a couple of days ago that she's not running the 100 at the trials.

Thanks, didn't know that.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:50 am

preston wrote:
guru wrote:Knowing relay guru Jon Drummond's thoughts on the issue, I believe nothing short of a failure to make a Trials final will remove Knight(who put up a sparkling 11.29 yesterday) from the 4x1, even if she runs over 23. It's mind-boggling.

It's not mind-boggling, it's unfair. All that nonsense about chemistry and experience is BS; Knight hasn't run enough relays compared to collegiates or other pros to be a "priority" above athletes who are clearly faster at 100m - or running around a turn. I hope it doesn't come down to it, but if Knight doesn't make the 100m final and also doesn't make top-3 in the 200m, and is placed in the relay over another athlete who has, then I would hope the athlete who loses a spot would sue.


This isn't all that difficult for me to understand. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but has it occured to anyone besides me that Adidas wants a face on the relay?

In the past they had some combination of BK, Corvette (pregnant) and AF who now runs for Nike. If Sanya and Jeter -who both run for Nike- are on it in London and Nike has already approached and secured Duncan...

I'll defer to Mars Blackmon for further analysis.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Smoke » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:27 am

I say we just take the winning 4x100 from NCAA and run them. They have had all year of practice, hand offs are crisp, and can over come the foot speed of VCB and SAF. Right?!

Stop it with the under hand passes, no team with that hand off wins. Yes you MUST adjust the stick to make the next hand off. It requires the incoming runner to get closer to the out going and slow down the stick more than overhand, i.e. push passes. I will repeat this until someone gets it, flawed handoffs are as much about the race as is hitting a hurdle in a hurdle race. You train all the time to not have these things happen but they do. As far as the US mishaps the glaring problem that some of you love to ignore, is that the mishaps have not been the same! 2005, incoming runner does not release the stick, drop. 2009, all hand offs completed safely, UK protest for an EARLY hand off, which resulted due to a safe mark so we did not drop the stick, dq (on I think was bogus and wrong). 2011, incoming runner collides with opposing team, nothing to do with stick work at all. So upon further review this is just mental masturbation for you all. I can go back farther but we will find medals, and success. Further eroding the false perception that there is something wrong with our relay program. BTW, I have the same arguments with some of the folks in USATF that also believe we need some wide sweeping changes. Those changes that have been implemented, and produced last years mishap, but don't tell anyone. Oops, we are talking about the women. There is even less to draw on when we discuss when women relays. SMDH
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:16 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:This isn't all that difficult for me to understand. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but has it occured to anyone besides me that Adidas wants a face on the relay?

In the past they had some combination of BK, Corvette (pregnant) and AF who now runs for Nike. If Sanya and Jeter -who both run for Nike- are on it in London and Nike has already approached and secured Duncan...

I'll defer to Mars Blackmon for further analysis.

If by past do you mean last year? Because that's the first time Bianca and Hooker were on any international relay.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby DJG » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:31 am

Smoke wrote:I say we just take the winning 4x100 from NCAA and run them. They have had all year of practice, hand offs are crisp, and can over come the foot speed of VCB and SAF. Right?!

Stop it with the .... I will repeat this until someone gets it, flawed handoffs are as much about the race as is hitting a hurdle in a hurdle race. You train all the time to not have these things happen but they do. As far as the US mishaps the glaring problem that some of you love to ignore, is that the mishaps have not been the same! 2005, incoming runner does not release the stick, drop. 2009, all hand offs completed safely, UK protest for an EARLY hand off, which resulted due to a safe mark so we did not drop the stick, dq (on I think was bogus and wrong). 2011, incoming runner collides with opposing team, nothing to do with stick work at all. So upon further review this is just mental masturbation for you all. I can go back farther but we will find medals, and success. Further eroding the false perception that there is something wrong with our relay program. BTW, I have the same arguments with some of the folks in USATF that also believe we need some wide sweeping changes. Those changes that have been implemented, and produced last years mishap, but don't tell anyone. Oops, we are talking about the women. There is even less to draw on when we discuss when women relays. SMDH


Smoke, Thanks for clearing up "my false perception that there is something wrong with our relay program." That the US finds different ways to screw up each time is proof that the US relay program is rock solid. Speaking of going further back, the US men and women 4x1's combined have 5 gold and 2 silver medals from the last 16 opprtinities (OG's And WC's). Most due to exchange problems. If anyone at USATF is advocating "wide sweeping changes", I would love to know how they are going about that.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:08 am

ATK wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:This isn't all that difficult for me to understand. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but has it occured to anyone besides me that Adidas wants a face on the relay?

In the past they had some combination of BK, Corvette (pregnant) and AF who now runs for Nike. If Sanya and Jeter -who both run for Nike- are on it in London and Nike has already approached and secured Duncan...

I'll defer to Mars Blackmon for further analysis.

If by past do you mean last year? Because that's the first time Bianca and Hooker were on any international relay.


Actually the point was that Adidas had THE face on the relay when they had AF, and at least A face (with Hooker/BK) after she left for Nike.

And now, without BK, they may have NO face.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:50 pm

SRR just stated in her press conference when asked about the relays that she's "definitely not thinking about the 4x1".
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Speedster » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:27 am

As a fan of the sport, I am disappointed that we won't get to see her run, but as a fan of SRR I understand her focus is elsewhere and she might spread herself too thin. Off a fly, she is probably one of the fastest in the US, up there with Jeter and Felix.

Madison/Felix/SRR/Jeter - with decent exchanges that's your WR team right there.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:07 am

ATK wrote:SRR just stated in her press conference when asked about the relays that she's "definitely not thinking about the 4x1".


Just wait til the relay camps start after trials.

More people will be thinking about it then.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:09 am

TrackDaddy wrote:
ATK wrote:SRR just stated in her press conference when asked about the relays that she's "definitely not thinking about the 4x1".


Just wait til the relay camps start after trials.

More people will be thinking about it then.



The only guy that counts, isn't
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby gh » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:05 pm

gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.


bump
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:22 pm

gh wrote:
gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.


bump



Brother I hear you. If Tarmoh beats Knight again this weekend there may be a glimmer of hope that Drummond will pry open his mind on that 3-slot.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Pego » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:21 am

gh wrote:
gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.


bump


What about Duncan on third? Not too shabby, methinks.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:08 am

guru wrote:Brother I hear you. If Tarmoh beats Knight again this weekend there may be a glimmer of hope that Drummond will pry open his mind on that 3-slot.

I agree, and seeing as how Knight will probably be fighting for 5th anyway in the 200, I hope he reconsiders the favoritism he had before the trials.
Last edited by ATK on Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:40 pm

He gave her a big hug after he thought she'd beaten Felix and gotten 3rd. I think he was the first person she approached.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:08 pm

So with the 100 and the 200 concluded....

I think it is clear that the 4x100 team should either be....

Madison - Felix - Tarmoh - Jeter
OR
Madison - Felix - SRR - Jeter

BK should not be on that team....
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby asindc » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:01 am

Madison-Felix-Tarmoh-Jeter. Knight and Duncan as alternates.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:06 am

asindc wrote:Madison-Felix-Jarmoh-Jeter. Knight and Duncan as alternates.

Agreed that should be it.
Prelim will probably be Madison-Duncan-Tarmoh-Knight
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:22 am

noxeht12 wrote:So with the 100 and the 200 concluded....

I think it is clear that the 4x100 team should either be....

Madison - Felix - Tarmoh - Jeter
OR
Madison - Felix - SRR - Jeter

BK should not be on that team....


Sanya? On third leg? When she hasn't run a championship 4x100 in eight years? :?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby booond » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:30 am

SRR isn't quick enough for the job. Tarmoh ran well enough in both sprints to do the job.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby beebee » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:39 am

booond wrote:SRR isn't quick enough for the job. Tarmoh ran well enough in both sprints to do the job.



SRR(along with Felix, one of America's best and most experienced relay runners) isn't quick enough(despite a 10.89w earlier this year) and yet trounced Tarmoh in Saturday's packed women's OT 200 final.

Comic relief :lol:
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby noxeht12 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:49 am

beebee wrote:
booond wrote:SRR isn't quick enough for the job. Tarmoh ran well enough in both sprints to do the job.



SRR isn't quick enough(a 10.89w earlier this year) and yet trounced Tarmoh in Saturday's packed women's OT 200 final.

Comic relief :lol:


I agree with you here. The only concern is trusting SRR to do a 200, 400, 4x100 and 4x400 quadruple... >_<
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:24 am

noxeht12 wrote:I agree with you here. The only concern is trusting SRR to do a 200, 400, 4x100 and 4x400 quadruple... >_<

Sanya's footspeed isn't the question. The question is where do you put her. Do you know for a fact that she can handle the baton on the second or third legs? Those are the critical legs IMO. You need good hands there. Don't make the mistake of worshipping the false god of footspeed.
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