About That London US Women's 4x100


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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby t_monk » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:25 pm

beebee wrote:
preston wrote:
beebee wrote:The U.S. Women's 4x100 will break the world record this year.

They may just break the record this year but there is absolutely nothing that was being exhibited at Penn that might indicate that. The USA has had "faster" teams than you saw on Saturday who weren't able to break that WR. In fact, that WR, is one of the most resilient for a reason. It's hard!

2008 the USA ran 42.57 in Philly and 42.40 and 42.49 in preparation for Beijing. 2009 the USA ran 42.40 in Philly and ran 41.58 in Berlin - .21 off of the WR. 2011 USA ran 42.28 and ran 41.56 in Daegu. And here because the USA runs 42.19 at Penn we're supposed to believe the WR will fall? How will this team be better than previous teams USA teams over the last 4 years? Better than the teams of the 80's and '90s?

Relays are about teamwork! And, the USA has been using basically the same women over the last 4 years on the relay. Add in the fact that this is an Olympic year and the USA women HAVE to be more prepared to make their national teams than the Jamaican women do. But, before I begin jumping up and down about a 42.19 I think of the 42.29 in 2009 by the Bahamas where the athletes and there SB's far underclassed the result that "better" teams from USA and Jamaica had failed to achieve in other years (33-year old 10.97, a 37-year old 10.99, a 19-year old 11.38 and a 400m runner who had a PB of 11.58).

42.19 is a great time, but it's not much better than the 42.40 in 2009 or the 42.28 last year. It tells us NOTHING about how much better these athletes will be in London, or if they will be better at all. Why? Because each year the USA runs some of the fastest times of the year in Philly.

They might break the record this year but I wouldn't be at all surprised if neither the USA or Jamaica does.

"Nothing to indicate"? How about the margin of victory this early in the season against the world's second best team on a cold day with a relative nubie leading off? Btw mr. condescension, the reason that woman's 4x100 wr is so "hard" is because the then East German girls(?) were doped like race horses. You believe whatever you wish.

So by your comment it would then mean that if the US team breaks the record it's because they are doped up like race horses too right?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Gabriella » Tue May 01, 2012 12:47 am

beebee wrote: "Nothing to indicate"? How about the margin of victory this early in the season against the world's second best team on a cold day with a relative nubie leading off? Btw mr. condescension, the reason that woman's 4x100 wr is so "hard" is because the then East German girls(?) were doped like race horses. You believe whatever you wish.


beebee, you need to be careful what you write; other posters have been banned for far less.

The WR is nothing to do with being doped; it has all to do with practice. Only Gohr and Gladish-Moller were sub 11 women that season; Gohr 10.86 with a +2.0 and 10.92 with a +1.2 and Gladisch-Moller 10.99. Sabine Gunther had set her PB that year but it was just 11.19.

We've been over this many times before, but the GDR women practised exchanges everyday. In a 1997 interview Auerswald said of her and Gohr "baton exchanges were part of our every day training; we could do them in our sleep". It is this, and not steroids, that made the WR. Many, many teams have had 4 faster women in a relay but none have put in the practice like the GDR girls did.

They also had the 'luxury' of selecting who they wanted, so with a far smaller pool of women than the US, they selected a small core and they were sent on relay training camps throughout the year.
But they also followed a strict technical model that the teams today just do not do:
-the 2nd leg was reserved for their 200m runners, or those stronger over 120m - Koch, Drechsler, Gunther (and Krabbe when the wall came down)
- They all started from a sprint start, not standing start
- They took on average 12-13 steps before they exchanged the baton. Most teams today do around 8 steps
- They did the upward exchange rather than downward/placing in the palm exchange

Until the US and Jamaican teams do something similar they will find it very difficult to break the WR.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Tue May 01, 2012 5:41 am

DJG wrote:Until the OlyTrials are concluded and the relay pools are named, no one is locked in the 4x1.


I would bet that if Jeter somehow didn't make the US team, she would still be anchor on the relay.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby DJG » Tue May 01, 2012 6:13 am

ATK wrote:
DJG wrote:Until the OlyTrials are concluded and the relay pools are named, no one is locked in the 4x1.


I would bet that if Jeter somehow didn't make the US team, she would still be anchor on the relay.


If Jeter is not in the top four in the 100 or 200 (And this goes for Tyson Gay as well), she will not be anchoring the 4x1. I realize that USATF has trouble following their own protocols and procedures, especially when the 4x1 is involved, but this would be most unlikely.

I will take that bet, if Jeter fails to make the team.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby preston » Tue May 01, 2012 6:22 am

beebee wrote:"Nothing to indicate"? How about the margin of victory this early in the season against the world's second best team on a cold day with a relative nubie leading off? Btw mr. condescension, the reason that woman's 4x100 wr is so "hard" is because the then East German girls(?) were doped like race horses. You believe whatever you wish.

Condescension isn't necessary, because you obviously see things from a child's point of view, or a hard-headed newbie with little historical context for track and field, Penn Relays or USA v. Jamaica rivalry. I mean who actually talks about "margin of victory" in an April race? :lol: And, who can cite "drugs" when its impossible to know who HAS and who HASN'T taken drugs? Because certainly every team since the GDR was absolute clean of PED's or any other illicit substances, no? :lol: Or maybe you're just not that informed. Maybe you weren't paying attention to previous years when Jamaican's did just enough not to get hurt - which probably would have been their intention on a cold Saturday in April. Or, maybe you weren't paying attention earlier this year when Jamaicans actually pulled out of a meet in Kingston, because...wait for it...it was too cool (google: Gibson Relays, Feb '12).

Penn Relays means nothing to professional Jamaicans; it's "home turf" for the USA and they defend it with a sense of purpose. Nothing wrong with either, imo, and it tells us absolutely NOTHING about what will happen in August. This would be informative if you wanted to learn, but...you'll believe whatever you wish. :wink:
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby DJG » Tue May 01, 2012 6:33 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
DJG wrote:One thing is a lock and that is the US will use two substitutes in the prelims and will most likely have three new exchanges in the final. And one of those X-Ch will probably be for the first time in a competition.

Unfortunately, I think you're right. I wish USATF would adopt the USA Basketball blueprint which is to pick a coach whose credentials are beyond reproach and give him total autonomy. I believe the reason why Drummond got the job is because none of the folks on the top of the list would accept the job with so many strings attached.


Or come to the realization that picking a relay team/pool is different from vieing for a spot in the 100 or 200. Many good sprinters do not make good relay legs.
Why aren't the women 100 Hurdlers given any chance to show what they could do? Why the push to always have the big names (Jeter, Felix, Richards-Ross, the current ones) who are focused on their individdual events, when it is obvious that very good exchanges will more than make up for a slight loss of max. speed?

The final make-up of both US 4x1's is still very much up in the air.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue May 01, 2012 7:00 am

preston wrote:Penn Relays means nothing to professional Jamaicans;


But only one week later the Jamaica Invitational sure does. It seems to mean more every year; not just to Jamaicans but other top athletes around the world. Now, even Bolt is showing up before the home crowd after skipping it in the past.

Maybe JA should include the relays in the future. Fans love relays and coaches love opportunities to field one. If the US could get its athletes at the same meet (other than TxRelays or Penn which still competes with Drake) maybe they would have more insight going into camp. An international event like the Ja Invite has become could invite the Brits and Russia too so we could have another opportunity to tweak the relays.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Tue May 01, 2012 7:08 am

DJG wrote:
ATK wrote:
DJG wrote:Until the OlyTrials are concluded and the relay pools are named, no one is locked in the 4x1.


I would bet that if Jeter somehow didn't make the US team, she would still be anchor on the relay.


If Jeter is not in the top four in the 100 or 200 (And this goes for Tyson Gay as well), she will not be anchoring the 4x1. I realize that USATF has trouble following their own protocols and procedures, especially when the 4x1 is involved, but this would be most unlikely.

I will take that bet, if Jeter fails to make the team.

Last year Travis Padget didn't run the 100m final at nationals ran the 4x100 in Daegu.
Maurice Mitchell the 4th placer in the 200m at USA's ran the 4x100 instead of Dodson the 3rd placer who was on the team.

Bianca Knight was 4th in the 200 at USA's and was on the relay over the 3rd placer.
Alex Anderson was 5th at USA's in the 100 and beat out the 4th and 3rd placers for a sport on the relay.

I see it as the only way that Jeter doesn't run the relay is if she is injured.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue May 01, 2012 7:12 am

DJG wrote: Why the push to always have the big names (Jeter, Felix, Richards-Ross, the current ones) who are focused on their individdual events, when it is obvious that very good exchanges will more than make up for a slight loss of max. speed?


Because BIG NAMES sell shoes and if you have one (a BIG NAME) its a pretty reliable indication that you can run really fast.

And if good exchanges over max speed is your argument, why are you pushing for hurdlers who often have less or no experience on relays and therefore could create issues wth both (exchanges and max speed)? :?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby DJG » Tue May 01, 2012 7:33 am

ATK wrote:
DJG wrote:
ATK wrote:
DJG wrote:Until the OlyTrials are concluded and the relay pools are named, no one is locked in the 4x1.


I would bet that if Jeter somehow didn't make the US team, she would still be anchor on the relay.


If Jeter is not in the top four in the 100 or 200 (And this goes for Tyson Gay as well), she will not be anchoring the 4x1. I realize that USATF has trouble following their own protocols and procedures, especially when the 4x1 is involved, but this would be most unlikely.

I will take that bet, if Jeter fails to make the team.

Last year Travis Padget didn't run the 100m final at nationals ran the 4x100 in Daegu.
Maurice Mitchell the 4th placer in the 200m at USA's ran the 4x100 instead of Dodson the 3rd placer who was on the team.

Bianca Knight was 4th in the 200 at USA's and was on the relay over the 3rd placer.
Alex Anderson was 5th at USA's in the 100 and beat out the 4th and 3rd placers for a sport on the relay.

I see it as the only way that Jeter doesn't run the relay is if she is injured.


Like I said, USATF has trouble following their own procedures. The order of the US OLyTrials
100/200 finish is not the deciding factor, being in the top four is supposed to be.
Dodson got himself in trouble, I recall. Anderson and Padgett were given spots to make up for
past relay mishaps.
The other way Jeter doesn't run is she sits out the prelim and the US gets DQ'd.
Not that that ever happens.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby DJG » Tue May 01, 2012 7:42 am

TrackDaddy wrote:
DJG wrote: Why the push to always have the big names (Jeter, Felix, Richards-Ross, the current ones) who are focused on their individdual events, when it is obvious that very good exchanges will more than make up for a slight loss of max. speed?


Because BIG NAMES sell shoes and if you have one (a BIG NAME) its a pretty reliable indication that you can run really fast.

And if good exchanges over max speed is your argument, why are you pushing for hurdlers who often have less or no experience on relays and therefore could create issues wth both (exchanges and max speed)? :?


Well because Terrence Trammell, to name one, is a very good, reliable and experienced relay runner. I just wonder what Lolo and Kelli White (Lolo is very marketable) could do, given the chance. Hurdlers are much less likely to get nervous and have "happpy feet", going over hurdles does help to focus the concentration. Something the Big Names could use.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Tue May 01, 2012 7:48 am

DJG wrote:Like I said, USATF has trouble following their own procedures. The order of the US OLyTrials
100/200 finish is not the deciding factor, being in the top four is supposed to be.
Dodson got himself in trouble, I recall. Anderson and Padgett were given spots to make up for
past relay mishaps.
The other way Jeter doesn't run is she sits out the prelim and the US gets DQ'd.
Not that that ever happens.

Dodson ran in Daegu....so his trouble was irrelevant by then.
None of the finishers ahead of Anderson and Padgett were involved in any relay mishaps. Anderson actually was herself back in 2009....

There is no way that the selection is "supposed" to be. If that's what they want, whether we like it or not, that what we will see. You fail to give a valid argument on why the US would leave the 2nd fastest women in history off the relay if she was healthy.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue May 01, 2012 7:51 am

DJG, I think you meant Kellie Wells. And TT may be an exception as he's a very good open sprinter indoors.

I believe the bigger issue is the relay squad getting ample practice or opportunity to work on exchanges.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 01, 2012 7:57 am

preston wrote:Penn Relays means nothing to professional Jamaicans; it's "home turf" for the USA and they defend it with a sense of purpose.

Penn Relays means nothing to pro Jamaicans? Really? I've been going to the Penn Relays for the last ten years and Jamaica has practically hijacked that meet from the U.S., culminating with all the pomp and circumstance imaginable at this past weekend's meet. On Saturday, when the Penn President announced that the Jamaican flag will fly over Franklin Field at all future Penn Relays, the mostly Jamaican crowd went crazy. If the Penn Relays is so unimportant to pro Jamaicans, why is it so important to Jamaican fans? Why does Philadelphia become North Kingston on the weekend on the Penn Relays?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 01, 2012 8:00 am

DJG wrote: Why the push to always have the big names (Jeter, Felix, Richards-Ross, the current ones) who are focused on their individdual events, when it is obvious that very good exchanges will more than make up for a slight loss of max. speed?

Because too many people worship the false God of 100 PR's.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 01, 2012 8:03 am

TrackDaddy wrote:
DJG wrote: Why the push to always have the big names (Jeter, Felix, Richards-Ross, the current ones) who are focused on their individdual events, when it is obvious that very good exchanges will more than make up for a slight loss of max. speed?


Because BIG NAMES sell shoes and if you have one (a BIG NAME) its a pretty reliable indication that you can run really fast.

Sell shoes? What does that have to do with the price of rice in China? :?
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue May 01, 2012 8:10 am

Jazz

At the end of the day its about money.

What reason would Nike or Adidas have for wanting to influence who may or may not get relay consideration other than selling shoes (so to speak)? Relay camp in-fights have at times been traced back to sponsorship.

A lesser known athlete who hasn't excelled in their individual event even though they have a shoe contract is less likely to have the same affect as a Big Name.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 01, 2012 8:14 am

DJG wrote:[Well because Terrence Trammell, to name one, is a very good, reliable and experienced relay runner. I just wonder what Lolo and Kelli White (Lolo is very marketable) could do, given the chance. Hurdlers are much less likely to get nervous and have "happpy feet", going over hurdles does help to focus the concentration. Something the Big Names could use.

And Lolo still runs relays a couple of times a year at LSU meets whenever she's in town. Also, let's not forget that she ran on many sub-43 relay teams while she was at LSU at 1st, 2nd and 3rd legs, and those teams won 17 of 18 races her junior and senior years.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby DJG » Tue May 01, 2012 8:30 am

ATK wrote:
DJG wrote:Like I said, USATF has trouble following their own procedures. The order of the US OLyTrials
100/200 finish is not the deciding factor, being in the top four is supposed to be.
Dodson got himself in trouble, I recall. Anderson and Padgett were given spots to make up for
past relay mishaps.
The other way Jeter doesn't run is she sits out the prelim and the US gets DQ'd.
Not that that ever happens.

Dodson ran in Daegu....so his trouble was irrelevant by then.
None of the finishers ahead of Anderson and Padgett were involved in any relay mishaps. Anderson actually was herself back in 2009....

There is no way that the selection is "supposed" to be. If that's what they want, whether we like it or not, that what we will see. You fail to give a valid argument on why the US would leave the 2nd fastest women in history off the relay if she was healthy.


USATF does have relay protocols and procedures on how it is "supposed" to be. The top four in the 100 US Trials final have earned on merit (a valid argument to me anyway) the right to be considered for the 4x1 relay. These athletes have a right to know that they will be given the opportunity to run on the 4x1. If it were any field event, do you think the fourth place finisher should be given a spot on the OLY team because they have a better PR over someone who beat them when it mattered most?
The current relay protocols, as written, are basicly worthless. Eg: look at how many members of the relay pools ran the practice meets leading up to Daegu - a stated condition for being on the relay.
There is a way it is "supposed to be", but USATF doesn't stick to it.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Tue May 01, 2012 8:48 am

DJG wrote:The current relay protocols, as written, are basicly worthless. Eg: look at how many members of the relay pools ran the practice meets leading up to Daegu - a stated condition for being on the relay.
There is a way it is "supposed to be", but USATF doesn't stick to it.

Exactly.....
which is why Jeter will be on the relay whether me or you likes it or not.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 01, 2012 9:01 am

What I would like to know is whether it's Jon Drummond's decision to ignore the protocols, or is he being forced to ignore them by higher-ups.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby DJG » Tue May 01, 2012 3:13 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:What I would like to know is whether it's Jon Drummond's decision to ignore the protocols, or is he being forced to ignore them by higher-ups.


Drummond in consultation with the Head Coaches and Sprint Coaches are calling the shots,
as far as I can see. The higher-ups at USATF have taken the postition that it is up to the athletes to perform. They are the pros, after all.

Last year, Drummond annouced his "preferred" lineups at the meeting held the last day of
the US championships. How surprised the High Performance people were is anyone's guess.

New Head Coaches and New Sprint Coaches for London. So one draw the conclusion that Drummond is making the final decisions regarding the 4x1's.

One thing we know, the US will use two subs in the 4x1's as they have going back to 2000.
The results of this are plain as day.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby beebee » Tue May 01, 2012 4:01 pm

preston wrote:
beebee wrote:"Nothing to indicate"? How about the margin of victory this early in the season against the world's second best team on a cold day with a relative nubie leading off? Btw mr. condescension, the reason that woman's 4x100 wr is so "hard" is because the then East German girls(?) were doped like race horses. You believe whatever you wish.

Condescension isn't necessary, because you obviously see things from a child's point of view, or a hard-headed newbie with little historical context for track and field, Penn Relays or USA v. Jamaica rivalry. I mean who actually talks about "margin of victory" in an April race? :lol: And, who can cite "drugs" when its impossible to know who HAS and who HASN'T taken drugs? Because certainly every team since the GDR was absolute clean of PED's or any other illicit substances, no? :lol: Or maybe you're just not that informed. Maybe you weren't paying attention to previous years when Jamaican's did just enough not to get hurt - which probably would have been their intention on a cold Saturday in April. Or, maybe you weren't paying attention earlier this year when Jamaicans actually pulled out of a meet in Kingston, because...wait for it...it was too cool (google: Gibson Relays, Feb '12).

Penn Relays means nothing to professional Jamaicans; it's "home turf" for the USA and they defend it with a sense of purpose. Nothing wrong with either, imo, and it tells us absolutely NOTHING about what will happen in August. This would be informative if you wanted to learn, but...you'll believe whatever you wish. :wink:


"Penn Relays means nothing to professional Jamaicans" Hilarious! They came that far to get spanked? No World Class athlete EVER MINDS LOSING! You wouldn't be spewing such crap if the Jamaicans ladies had beaten the U.S. girls so soundly. As I said, believe what pleases you friend...I'm certain that the US ladies feel a whole lot better today than their Jamaicans rivals.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 01, 2012 4:15 pm

DJG wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:What I would like to know is whether it's Jon Drummond's decision to ignore the protocols, or is he being forced to ignore them by higher-ups.


Drummond in consultation with the Head Coaches and Sprint Coaches are calling the shots,
as far as I can see. The higher-ups at USATF have taken the postition that it is up to the athletes to perform. They are the pros, after all.

Last year, Drummond annouced his "preferred" lineups at the meeting held the last day of
the US championships. How surprised the High Performance people were is anyone's guess.

New Head Coaches and New Sprint Coaches for London. So one draw the conclusion that Drummond is making the final decisions regarding the 4x1's.

One thing we know, the US will use two subs in the 4x1's as they have going back to 2000.
The results of this are plain as day.

It sounds like you are of the opinion that Drummond has dictatorial powers, and he gets the final call on substitutions without anyone else being able to overrule him.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby DJG » Wed May 02, 2012 6:46 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
DJG wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:What I would like to know is whether it's Jon Drummond's decision to ignore the protocols, or is he being forced to ignore them by higher-ups.


Drummond in consultation with the Head Coaches and Sprint Coaches are calling the shots,
as far as I can see. The higher-ups at USATF have taken the postition that it is up to the athletes to perform. They are the pros, after all.

Last year, Drummond annouced his "preferred" lineups at the meeting held the last day of
the US championships. How surprised the High Performance people were is anyone's guess.

New Head Coaches and New Sprint Coaches for London. So one draw the conclusion that Drummond is making the final decisions regarding the 4x1's.

One thing we know, the US will use two subs in the 4x1's as they have going back to 2000.
The results of this are plain as day.

It sounds like you are of the opinion that Drummond has dictatorial powers, and he gets the final call on substitutions without anyone else being able to overrule him.

He's the relay coach and that's what he was hired to do.
So yes, I believe he is calling the shots. I just disagree with his using two subs in the prelims.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby t_monk » Wed May 02, 2012 7:21 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
preston wrote:Penn Relays means nothing to professional Jamaicans; it's "home turf" for the USA and they defend it with a sense of purpose.

Penn Relays means nothing to pro Jamaicans? Really? I've been going to the Penn Relays for the last ten years and Jamaica has practically hijacked that meet from the U.S., culminating with all the pomp and circumstance imaginable at this past weekend's meet. On Saturday, when the Penn President announced that the Jamaican flag will fly over Franklin Field at all future Penn Relays, the mostly Jamaican crowd went crazy. If the Penn Relays is so unimportant to pro Jamaicans, why is it so important to Jamaican fans? Why does Philadelphia become North Kingston on the weekend on the Penn Relays?


Because of the High School athletes who generally tend to dominate.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Speedster » Thu May 03, 2012 12:49 am

USATF have now put NBC Penn Relays footage onto their Youtube channel so I can see the full race. Madison/Felix/Knight/Jeter looked really good the whole way around, second change was average but impressive run for April.

Knight gets a lot of stick for her conditioning but I thought she looked as good as a I have seen her, fitter than indoors earlier this year. She ran a good bend as well and removing Felix and Jeter from the equation, she's as good a bend runner as anyone else in the frame and if she gets in the top five in either sprint in the US Trials, I think she should be included in the pool.

Jamaica have some work to do but I am confident they will improve, by how much between now and London remains to be seen.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby gh » Thu May 10, 2012 7:46 am

Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Thu May 10, 2012 7:49 am

gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.

Consideration yes, but I wouldn't put her over any of the ladies who ran on that Penn 4x1, and a few other ladies behind them.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby Speedster » Thu May 10, 2012 12:57 pm

ATK wrote:
gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.

Consideration yes, but I wouldn't put her over any of the ladies who ran on that Penn 4x1, and a few other ladies behind them.


Tarmoh ran the second leg exclusively in 2011 at A&M, given they might rest Felix for the final, she's worth considering for the heat run.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Thu May 10, 2012 1:58 pm

Speedster wrote:
ATK wrote:
gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.

Consideration yes, but I wouldn't put her over any of the ladies who ran on that Penn 4x1, and a few other ladies behind them.


Tarmoh ran the second leg exclusively in 2011 at A&M, given they might rest Felix for the final, she's worth considering for the heat run.

That's fine, and yes very feasible. But I was thinking along the lines of the final line up.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby gh » Thu May 10, 2012 2:23 pm

ATK wrote:
gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.

Consideration yes, but I wouldn't put her over any of the ladies who ran on that Penn 4x1, and a few other ladies behind them.


I'd def. give her a look over Knight, whose lack of collegiate experience makes her far less familiar with a baton. Knight's best 100 the last two years? 11.40 in '10, 11.22 in ’09. It's not as if she's got big 100 credentials of current standing.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby mump boy » Thu May 10, 2012 2:30 pm

There's an article on Athletics Weekly this week where prominent track supporters are asked for predictions for the season. There are a couple of ubiquitous twins who predicted UK women's to medal in the 4x1, legendary stat man Ian Hodge has the same prediction.

Great minds and all that :wink:
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby guru » Thu May 10, 2012 2:32 pm

gh wrote:
ATK wrote:
gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.

Consideration yes, but I wouldn't put her over any of the ladies who ran on that Penn 4x1, and a few other ladies behind them.


I'd def. give her a look over Knight, whose lack of collegiate experience makes her far less familiar with a baton. Knight's best 100 the last two years? 11.40 in '10, 11.22 in ’09. It's not as if she's got big 100 credentials of current standing.



I'm with you, but for some reason that(the points you made) doesn't seem to matter.
Last edited by guru on Thu May 10, 2012 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby gktrack » Thu May 10, 2012 2:40 pm

gh wrote:I'd def. give her a look over Knight, whose lack of collegiate experience makes her far less familiar with a baton. Knight's best 100 the last two years? 11.40 in '10, 11.22 in ’09. It's not as if she's got big 100 credentials of current standing.

Not to mention Tarmoh ran a nice 22.51 (-0.1) in St. Martin a few days before the Cayman meet, only a few tenths off her PR from last year at Eugene (22.28, 1.0w) - she's rounding into nice form.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TxHottrack » Thu May 10, 2012 2:47 pm

gh wrote:
ATK wrote:
gh wrote:Tarmoh 11.13 PR in the Caymans last night.

Given her extensive stick experience with the hyper-successful A&M teams, she may well be worth some OG consideration.

Consideration yes, but I wouldn't put her over any of the ladies who ran on that Penn 4x1, and a few other ladies behind them.


I'd def. give her a look over Knight, whose lack of collegiate experience makes her far less familiar with a baton. Knight's best 100 the last two years? 11.40 in '10, 11.22 in ’09. It's not as if she's got big 100 credentials of current standing.



I think Knight will surprise many of you this Olympic year. Knight work on her start, she is going to run a monster leg on the 4x100. I even predict Knight to be an Olympic finalist in the
200 mtrs. Knight can run with the best, again, she just need to work on her start.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby gh » Thu May 10, 2012 3:22 pm

Lifetime, Tarmoh and Knight are 1-1 in 200 meetings. Tarmoh has two times faster than Knight's PR.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby trackonthebrain » Thu May 10, 2012 5:43 pm

gh wrote:Lifetime, Tarmoh and Knight are 1-1 in 200 meetings. Tarmoh has two times faster than Knight's PR.



Lifetime? GH, are you serious?

Remember they ran together in the youth and junior ranks. They were even on relays together coming up.

And what's the "fuss" about Tarmoh on the relay all of a sudden? You're using Tarmoh's 200 PR to make your case (where Tarmoh's PR beats Knight by only hundreths of a second)?

Really? Since when?

Why not use their 100 PR like you usually do? Better yet, why not wait until Knight runs a 100 this year before making the comparison - or they meet face to face? Tarmoh's running well this year - but so is Knight. The 11.13? Let's see what Knight runs this year as soon as she runs a 100. Tarmoh has run her 100 - let Knight run hers.

What's the rush?

Why pick on Knight, only? Aren't there other ladies she might replace rather than Knight?

Knight has had major champs experience in the relay. Tarmoh hasn't - and she "bombed" at Worlds. And she was in the pool last year, wasn't she? Why were Knight and Anderson selected instead of her? What does that tell you?

Who runs a 22.2 at Nationals and then a 23.4 at Worlds 6 weeks later (admitted low blow, lol - but I'm a Knight fan)? Other low blows - don't forget Tarmoh's history. She didn't exactly shine at Tenn before moving on to A&M either. And I think she's training with Jeter now so...of course she'll do well...

I'm not against Tarmoh. I pick her to go crazy this year - but ditto for Knight.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby ATK » Thu May 10, 2012 7:00 pm

trackonthebrain wrote:And what's the "fuss" about Tarmoh on the relay all of a sudden? You're using Tarmoh's 200 PR to make your case (where Tarmoh's PR beats Knight by only hundreths of a second)?

Im pretty sure he began his case speaking on Tarmoh and Knights 100m credentials.

I would give Knight the nod considering her world class experience, racing with the pros for about 4 years now. Also her consistency at being competitive at this stage in the past year plus is nothing to push to the side.
Also its pretty obvious that she is doing something special that only the relay gods can see. She was 4th at US's behind Solomon and Tarmoh, but still made it on the final relay team over them, and the other 100m runners.

And like everyone knows, open times don't necessarily translate to a fast relay.
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Re: About That London US Women's 4x100

Postby TxHottrack » Fri May 11, 2012 4:52 am

Agreed. I don't have anything against Tarmoh, but I rather have B Knight on the relay oppose to Tarmoh. On the first leg in the 4x100, she didn't ley Fryser-Price get away from her, and at Penn, she ran a hell of 3rd leg on that 4x100. I would like to see what she opens with in the 100, and Tarmoh might get the best of her, but that doesn't mean that B Knight is not a better leg for the 4x100. However, It's going to get really tough by USA Champs. The USA women are looking very good in the sprints area....other areas as well.
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