IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)


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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby uakari » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:25 am

part of the issue to me is, do any of these kenyans, ethiopians, jamaicans etc. have any link to their "adopted" countries (residence, know the language or culture, have family, etc.)????? i mean, obikwelu moved to portugal, aldama lives in britain, etc. but scores of these athletes never set foot in bahrain or qatar or turkey or speak the local language! it's all a freaking sham. they even adopt arabic names they can't pronounce or spell or write...

wasn't maryam yusuf for example shopping for a country? i mean, she'd competed for switzerland if they let her. and aldama did compete for sudan, a country she had very little connection to....
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:37 am

Blues wrote:
batonless relay wrote:Ramil Guliyev, because he decided to run for Turkey instead of Azerbaijan, hasn't run in any global championships since 2009 and he won't be eligible for Moscow; however, Jackie Areson will be running for Australia even though she ran for the United States as recently as the 2012 Indoor Worlds. http://www.insideathletics.com.au/dista ... -lose-some

Areson has dual citizenship and despite representing USA at the 2012 World Indoors has been fast tracked for Australian representation. At the Paris Diamond League the 25-year-old University of Tennesee graduate ran an A-qualifier and new personal best of 15:12.09.

Areson was ecstatic at her performance and the prospect of representing Australia at the world championships in Moscow.


The rules need to be changed. No more transfer restrictions.


I'm not taking issue with your argument, but what's the reason that Guliyev won't be eligible for Moscow?

Guliyev is out of Moscow because AZE didn't want him to move to TUR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Guliyev
He represented Azerbaijan but switched allegiance to Turkey in 2011,[8] including allegations that he had received up to $200,000 to change his citizenship.[9][10] In Guliyev's defence, his Turkish coach Fikret Çetinkaya stated that the sprinter had had no money incentive and had simply not been "given enough attention" in his home country, thus moving to Turkey voluntarily.[11] The defection was deeply unpopular with the Azerbaijan Athletics Federation, which set about filing an official complaint to the International Association of Athletics Federations – a move which would effectively rule out Guliyev from major international competition for three years.[12]
In April 2011, the IAAF enacted a transfer delay in line with its international rules, banning Guliyev to represent any country other than Azerbaijan until April 2014.[13] The runner highlighted the training and financial support he received in Turkey was significant and argued that language and culture was similar between the two countries. Despite the ban, his home federation remained open to him representing Azerbaijan internationally again
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:48 am

uakari wrote:part of the issue to me is, do any of these kenyans, ethiopians, jamaicans etc. have any link to their "adopted" countries (residence, know the language or culture, have family, etc.)????? i mean, obikwelu moved to portugal, aldama lives in britain, etc. but scores of these athletes never set foot in bahrain or qatar or turkey or speak the local language! it's all a freaking sham. they even adopt arabic names they can't pronounce or spell or write...

wasn't maryam yusuf for example shopping for a country? i mean, she'd competed for switzerland if they let her. and aldama did compete for sudan, a country she had very little connection to....

So what? Many people emigrate to other countries not knowing how to speak the language and many foreigners would argue that native Americans can't speak, spell or write it either. How many connections did the Russians have to Australia when they decided to set up Pole Vault camp and compete in the late 90s? Why no cries for Jackie Areson, she competed for the US just last year? And, why no cries about Americans and Russians who have gone on to compete for Israel? Or is it only a problem for you when it's Africans and the one Jamaican? (I can't think of any other Jamaicans who have competed for a country that they had no connection to. Ottey was living in Slovenia and Mason always had a British passport.)
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby uakari » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:54 am

my, someone is really angry here...

i migrated to the US before i spoke english... so what's your point?

my point was, do any of these athletes even live there or have any connection? i'm not talking about immigrants. i'm talking about these fake bahrainis and qataris who can't even write their own "new" names.

don't know much about those russians in australia but they moved there, didn't they? these kenyans and ethiopians certainly don't live in bahrain or qatar.

did aldama ever live in sudan? does maryam yusuf live in bahrain?

as for jamaicans, there was someone named brandon simpson who represented qatar or bahrain, i believe, but has since fallen off the radar. btw, i believe most of qatar's soccer team is foreign-bought.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:03 pm

uakari wrote:my, someone is really angry here...

i migrated to the US before i spoke english... so what's your point?

my point was, do any of these athletes even live there? i'm not talking about immigrants. i'm talking about these fake bahrainis and qataris who can't even write their own "new" names.

did aldama ever live in sudan? does maryam yusuf live in bahrain?

as for jamaicans, there was someone named brandon simpson who represented qatar or bahrain, i believe, but has since fallen off the radar. btw, i believe most of qatar's soccer team is foreign-bought.

How did you deduce "anger" from that post? Far from it. I asked you a series of questions. why are you so defensive? Did I strike a nerve? FWIW, your point doesn't matter, the only people who should be allowed to decide "citizenship" is the people who live there. If the Bahrainis, Qataris and others want to bestow citizenship on athletes that's their right, not mine or yours or the IAAF/IOC for that matter. Rupert Murdoch got US citizenship for one reason: he was shut out of the broadcast market. I just don't see anything wrong with someone competing for another country that has given them a passport for that reason.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby AFTERBURNER » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:11 pm

Speaking of transfer of allegiances, does anyone know the real name of former Kenyan Mohammed Al-Salhi now running for Saudi Arabia.

Thanks in advance
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby Blues » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:14 pm

batonless relay wrote:
Blues wrote: I'm not taking issue with your argument, but what's the reason that Guliyev won't be eligible for Moscow?

Guliyev is out of Moscow because AZE didn't want him to move to TUR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Guliyev
He represented Azerbaijan but switched allegiance to Turkey in 2011,[8] including allegations that he had received up to $200,000 to change his citizenship.[9][10] In Guliyev's defence, his Turkish coach Fikret Çetinkaya stated that the sprinter had had no money incentive and had simply not been "given enough attention" in his home country, thus moving to Turkey voluntarily.[11] The defection was deeply unpopular with the Azerbaijan Athletics Federation, which set about filing an official complaint to the International Association of Athletics Federations – a move which would effectively rule out Guliyev from major international competition for three years.[12]
In April 2011, the IAAF enacted a transfer delay in line with its international rules, banning Guliyev to represent any country other than Azerbaijan until April 2014.[13] The runner highlighted the training and financial support he received in Turkey was significant and argued that language and culture was similar between the two countries. Despite the ban, his home federation remained open to him representing Azerbaijan internationally again


I thought his eligibility date was changed to 2013, and in the current Transfer of Allegiance section of the IAAF.org website, as of Dec. 2012 his date of eligibility to compete for Turkey is listed as April 4, 2013. He's also listed as representing Turkey in his current IAAF bio. He competed for Turkey in the June Mediterranean Games too, so I thought that his eligibility date had been changed from the original 2014 date.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:18 pm

Blues wrote: I thought his eligibility date was changed to 2013, and in the current Transfer of Allegiance section of the IAAF.org website, as of Dec. 2012 his date of eligibility to compete for Turkey is listed as April 4, 2013. He's also listed as representing Turkey in his current IAAF bio. He competed for Turkey in the June Mediterranean Games too, so I thought that his eligibility date had been changed from the original 2014 date.

That would be "new" information for me. I never really updated my info after the initial claim that 2014 would be his international return and that's what was in Wiki (yes, I realize that wikipedia is very oftern wrong). It would be great to see him in Moscow but he's not the same athlete he was in 2009. All that said, an athlete should never have to sit out longer for a transfer than they would for a drug suspension.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby uakari » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:20 pm

AFTERBURNER wrote:Speaking of transfer of allegiances, does anyone know the real name of former Kenyan Mohammed Al-Salhi now running for Saudi Arabia.

Thanks in advance


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Al-Salhi

only a surname is listed though...
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby uakari » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:24 pm

batonless relay wrote: How did you deduce "anger" from that post?


dude, you're practically screaming with self-righteousness, i can feel your spit raining down...

they are not bestowing citizenships, they're buying them wholesale... that's different from athletes moving to another country.

batonless relay wrote: the only people who should be allowed to decide "citizenship" is the people who live there.


apparently the iaaf, ioc and others have something to say about it.

batonless relay wrote: I just don't see anything wrong with someone competing for another country that has given them a passport for that reason.


well, i do... you got a problem with that?
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:42 pm

I know that you have a problem with it; you also have a problem accusing people of what you're guilty of. From your own words you are pissed that these "lessers" dare run for anyone but their miserable little countries and double "how dare" these "buying" countries for not assuming their rightful place at the bottom of the medal table where you would like to see them. Oh, it's you who is raining spit down alright. So, not trying to get in a fight with you; I'll only suggest that you calm down. You seem downright hysterical, which makes my initial reply to your comments absolutely spot on.

I'll say it again for the cooler more rational heads. The penalty for transfer of allegiance should never be longer than a penalty for PED's. Had Guliyev tested positive he would have been back already.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby Daisy » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:55 pm

batonless relay wrote: Had Guliyev tested positive he would have been back already.

I agree that is ridiculous.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby uakari » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:49 am

batonless relay wrote:I know that you have a problem with it; you also have a problem accusing people of what you're guilty of. From your own words you are pissed that these "lessers" dare run for anyone but their miserable little countries and double "how dare" these "buying" countries for not assuming their rightful place at the bottom of the medal table where you would like to see them...

I'll say it again for the cooler more rational heads...


funny you should bring back cooler heads -- and being guilty of what you accuse others to be. you are more pathetic than most. where have i said anything about lessers? i just find it ridiculous that the oil-rich gulf countries -- instead of developing their own athletes -- and btw, where are the qatari women athletes, just go out on a shopping spree. you obviously can't figure out that there's a difference between athletes who become immigrants for whatever reasons, and those that never even bother to set foot in their "new countries." if citizenship means nothing -- if representing their own countries means nothing -- then let athletes represent mcdonalds, coca-cola or whoever buys them off. why have a parade of nations at the olympics? why would iaaf fly all the flags of member nations then?

as for guliyev, you need to bark up the azerbaijan tree.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby batonless relay » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:58 am

Kenya-born Ruth Jebet, who ran a start-to-finish race denying India’s Sudha Singh the gold, was brought to Bahrain as a teenager ...

Bahrain, on their part, are unmoved by the criticism. “Anyone who has a Bahraini passport is a local. We are not buying athletes but getting talent which can prove itself. We spend a lot of time working on them,” said Dr Mohammed bin Diana,
:lol: :!:
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby uakari » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:02 pm

very good, boy. you can copy and paste and even bold text. next, you might learn italics. in the future, reading comprehension and logic...
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby gh » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:10 pm

needless to say, that kind of talk not tolerated here.

please take 24 hours to think whether you'd like to continue to be a productive contributor to this forum.....
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby lonewolf » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:16 pm

I question whether any athlete "Transfers Allegiance" in switching to represent another country. I suspect many/most multi-national eligible athletes have no, or mixed, allegiance, subject to change with opportunity, to any country,

I believe their motivation is either financial or inability to make the team of a dominant country.
Heck, after injury (and, just possibly, lack of talent ) kept me off the 1952 Helsinki team, I would have run for the Kiowa-Comanche team if they had had a delegation. :)
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby Pego » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:35 pm

lonewolf wrote:I question whether any athlete "Transfers Allegiance" in switching to represent another country. I suspect many/most multi-national eligible athletes have no, or mixed, allegiance, subject to change with opportunity, to any country,

I believe their motivation is either financial or inability to make the team of a dominant country.
Heck, after injury (and, just possibly, lack of talent ) kept me off the 1952 Helsinki team, I would have run for the Kiowa-Comanche team if they had had a delegation. :)


There are, of course, all shades of grey in this "naturalization" phenomenon. I think, the most egregious, on the fringes of this scale, must be the case of a bunch of Canadian hockey players of somewhat Italian heritage that were "naturalized" by Italy for the entire length of the Olympic tournament. It happened in 80s-90's. I apologize for repeating this story, but this sort of naked mercenary behavior is, at least to me, despicable.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby batonless relay » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:14 am

So Kim Collins who has run two PB's in 2013 at the age of 37 including a NR, 9.98, has been left off of the SKN World Championship Team because "did not meet the selection criteria as outlined by the SKNAAA World Championships in Athletics Standards."

The other member of the SKN WC Team were only allowed to compete after they signed contracts

The six athletes, Antoine Adams, Jason Rogers, Lestrod Roland, Brijesh Lawrence, Allistar Clarke and Delwayne Delaney, all agreed to give up 20 percent of their earnings and bonuses from the August 10-18 championships...

The deadline for the contracts was Monday, July 15 at 4:30 p.m., and according to Huggins, “all parties agreed with the 20% payment by virtue of signed contracts by the deadline given.” http://trackalerts.com/2013/07/16/st-ki ... ederation/


Probably too late for Collins to bring a case before CAS and the other 6 athletes just apparently want to run otherwise they would have stuck to their stance that weren't signing and forego Moscow, but this is why athletes should be able to change allegiance to any country willing to accept them and be immediately eligible.

The IAAF empowers these Federations to rule by fiat, and some do. Think about this: instead of beseeching the government and soliciting private donors or even the business community, SKNAAA has asked the athletes to fund 20% of their own way to the World Championships. If I'm not mistaken the IAAF pays for the A-standard qualifiers from each country, so where would that 20% be going? Clearly the SKNAAA administration isn't doing their job? For 6 athletes that's probably a bit more than $5000!

There are some countries that are worth leaving and the IAAF shouldn't be in the position to determine citizenship if it WON'T force good governance rules on it's members.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby Marlow » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:27 am

batonless relay wrote:this is why athletes should be able to change allegiance to any country willing to accept them and be immediately eligible.

I agree that athletes should be free to switch allegiance, but as for the 'immediately eligible', only if the receiving country is prepared to grant them full citizenship, including voting rights, medical and educational benefits, etc., AND the athletes renounce any of that from the country they're leaving. That is eminently FAIR. Either all in, or not at all.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby lonewolf » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:18 am

Marlow wrote:[. Either all in, or not at all.


I agree. You cannot serve two masters.
Apparently multiple-citizenship laws vary from country to country. My eldest daughter, born in military hospital in Germany to US citizen parents, had dual citizenship until age 21 at which time she had to elect on or the other.. she chose US.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby bambam » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:49 pm

lonewolf wrote:Heck, after injury (and, just possibly, lack of talent ) kept me off the 1952 Helsinki team, I would have run for the Kiowa-Comanche team if they had had a delegation. :)


There is a Native American "National" Olympic Committee that has tried to get recognition from the IOC - unsuccessfully, as you would imagine. I don't think they were formed yet back in 1952, lonewolf.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby bambam » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:52 pm

Pego wrote: I think, the most egregious, on the fringes of this scale, must be the case of a bunch of Canadian hockey players of somewhat Italian heritage that were "naturalized" by Italy for the entire length of the Olympic tournament. It happened in 80s-90's. I apologize for repeating this story, but this sort of naked mercenary behavior is, at least to me, despicable.


Tons of examples in Olympic history - 1920 Canadian ice hockey was really an Icelandic team - all but one player born there. 1936 British ice hockey team that won gold medal was all Canadian ex-pats. More recently, in 2004 the Greek baseball and softball teams were all Greek-Americans that they recruited from the United States because nobody in Greece plays baseball or softball. In 2008-12 the Russian women's basketball team had two Americans playing on it - who played professionally in the Russian leagues. I think the men's team also had a couple Americans on it.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby uakari » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:27 am

there is one sport that recognizes native american sovereignty, and that's lacrosse.

as for basketball, FIBA has some rule that allows 1 or 2 foreigners per team. i believe at the euros, most teams had one american.

italian hockey team wouldn't be the first or last ot have all the foreigners. the same is done by baseball for the world baseball classic (i.e. italy and israel bseball teams).

but bahrain and qatar take the cake for shameless buying of athletes.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby batonless relay » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:55 pm

Thank heavens for Turkey, Bahrain and Qatar. Athletes need to be free to move at will.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby bekayne » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:32 pm

batonless relay wrote:Thank heavens for Turkey, Bahrain and Qatar. Athletes need to be free to move at will.

They can move anywhere they want.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby bekayne » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:37 pm

bambam wrote:
Tons of examples in Olympic history - 1920 Canadian ice hockey was really an Icelandic team - all but one player born there. 1936 British ice hockey team that won gold medal was all Canadian ex-pats.


The 1920 team were all Canadians of Icelandic descent from Winnipeg. 11 of the 13 players on the 1936 team were born & raised in Canada. Of the 2 Brits, one learned his hockey in Switzerland.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby bekayne » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:40 pm

The most ridiculous example I can think of was the German soccer player Thomas Dooley. He represented the USA shortly after finding out his (long absentee) father was an American. In fact he played for the USA before he had even set foot there.
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Re: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance rule(s)

Postby uakari » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:32 pm

batonless relay wrote:Thank heavens for Turkey, Bahrain and Qatar. Athletes need to be free to move at will.


except none of them moved to bahrain or qatar. a small detail that escaped your limited comprehension, again.
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