Dai Greene To LaShawn Merritt: 'You're A Cheat!'

[berkeley]

Note to gh:

I understand that the news feed on the left of the home page is automated, and in principle nothing relevant should be filtered from it, but is it really necessary to dignify (and legitimize) this article from the Mail Online under the heading "The Day's Best Reading" ?

The Daily Mail is a right wing tabloid similar to the National Enquirer - except, sadly, carrying quite a lot more credibility with a larger portion of the population in the UK. I don't know David Greene, but given reporting standards and practises recently exposed, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the article grossly distorts what he actually said (if indeed he was really interviewed).

If it is accurate, then IMO think it ranks alongside other recent stories (such as ex-hurdler Angie Thorp whining about her NR being broken by "plastic Brit" Tiffany Ofili) as content that definitely doesn't rank among the Day's Best Reading ...

[bruce3404]

Sometimes sensationalism is the day's best reading, unfortunately. Such statements do nothing for the sport and, in fact, call negative attention to T&F. So attendance drops, prize money drops, Dai doesn't make as much $$$$; he needs to think a bit before he opens his mouth.

[Marlow]

the article:

Greene told the Mail on Sunday:
"I'll tell you now, I'll happily go and find him at the start and tell him to his face: 'You're a cheat and you shouldn't be here. I'll be so motivated, so pumped up by his very presence in the race that I'd do anything I could to find myself up against him in the same leg of the relay, no matter what leg it would be. Let's be honest. It won't be a surprise if I'm in the relay team, it won't be a surprise if he's running for the Americans and it won't be a surprise if we're against each other in the semis or the final. So it's likely I'll get my chance to do this. And if I do, I'll take it."

If the quote is real, Dai did himself a disservice in more ways than one.

[lovetorun]

I agree with the sentiments of this thread...1. I doubt Dai Greene would say that and 2. if he did he's out of line because when you don't know all the nuances and intimate details of a case, you'd be wise not to comment on it... and also I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt if they are reinstated and support a comeback.

[gm]

The Daily Mail is a right wing tabloid similar to the National Enquirer

Horsehockey.

[Gabriella]

1. The Daily Mail is nothing like The National Enquirer. It used to be very right-wing but is nowhere near as far right as it used to be. It's still extremely Royalist but it has become (slightly) more in touch.

2. Every one should be entitled to express their opinion and if an athlete feels strongly about drug use, I welcome this. Perhaps Greene didn't choose his words very well, but good on him I say. It still amuses me that some people expect athletes who have been cheated out of medals or who have seen team mates cheated out of medals to keep stum. No way Jose. Shame the cheats out of the sport.

3. LaShawn Merritt is a cheat.

[mal]

When he goes after Christine Ohourugu, a team mate, I will be more impressed with his stand.

[Speedster]

The Daily Mail at its best. These quotes have been drawn from a suspect line of questioning to deliver some juicy headlines, no doubt they would have started with his views on drugs in sport and led from there to Merritt.

Not sure what support Dai would have had during the interview from management etc. The story also covers his epilepsy which I wasn't aware of before.

I wonder if this is part of a broader attempt to increase his profile, he appeared on a game show recently and for a world champion, he has none of the profile that Jess Ennis has, and she's not even world champion any more. Cashing in on the lead up to the Games must be a priority for all UK athletes.

[Grasshopper]

3. LaShawn Merritt is a cheat.

Do you know something the authorities don't know? "Cheat" implies intent, and I believe the ruling in Merrit's case was that there was no intent to unfairly improve athletic performance, which is why his original ban was reduced.

[guru]

LOL!

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeBattaglia1/st ... 8898540544

Will be fun watching @daigreene try to remove baton from his ass courtesy of LaShawn Merritt after the 4x400m in London

[jeremyp]

A so so 400 man wants to dis one of the best ever? Whatever. Merritt has done his time. and he's clean, and I'm tired of people not giving people a second chance in this sport.

[26mi235]

3. LaShawn Merritt is a cheat.

Do you know something the authorities don't know? "Cheat" implies intent, and I believe the ruling in Merrit's case was that there was no intent to unfairly improve athletic performance, which is why his original ban was reduced.

I agree. There is a consistent process for assessment. In this case, the assessment is that he failed a test but was not 'doping' in the sense of attempting to cheat. If you only want to accept those results that you like then just consider yourself a partisan and leave it at that.

[bruce3404]

3. LaShawn Merritt is a cheat.

Do you know something the authorities don't know? "Cheat" implies intent, and I believe the ruling in Merrit's case was that there was no intent to unfairly improve athletic performance, which is why his original ban was reduced.

I've always believed in Merritt's explanation. I mean, who would fess up to using a male enhancement product? I guess the very cynical might think it was a brilliant move to cover up a cheating regimen. The guy paid for his mistake by having nearly two years at the peak of his career taken away; can only guess what a huge amount of $$$ that cost him on the track and through endorsements, not to mention legal fees fighting the ban. Dai may be a great 400 hurdler, but if his words are true, he's got a long way to go in the compassion department.

[Jon]

A so so 400 man

Um, the world 400m hurdles champion.

[gh]

wonder how long it would take Merritt to learn how to hurdle passably?

[Grasshopper]

A so so 400 man

Um, the world 400m hurdles champion.

...with the slowest winning time in the history of the WC's. How does his 400-flat time (the event being discussed) stack up to Merrit's? Personally, I think Greene is already letting his success of the last 2 years go to his head/ego, and forgetting that he's been the beneficiary of a couple of relatively slow years by his peers.

If Greene thinks Merritt was receiving so much benefit from the drug in his system, then how does he explain that he came back from a 2-year layoff and was able to run within about a half-second of his lifetime best, set 3 years before? Meanwhile, Greene could only get within about the same margin of his own lifetime best, set the previous year.

[mump boy]

When he goes after Christine Ohourugu, a team mate, I will be more impressed with his stand.

When CO gets caught with illegal substances in her system maybe he will

[Grasshopper]

When he goes after Christine Ohourugu, a team mate, I will be more impressed with his stand.

When CO gets caught with illegal substances in her system maybe he will

But Greene's addressing "cheating", not just illegal-substances-in-the-system, and from an IAAF standpoint a missed test is pretty much the same as a failed test. If he judges that Merritt's failed test equates to cheating then why wouldn't he judge the same of Ohourugu?

[tm71]

i agree that 48.2 is NOT going to win olympic gold in his event. it is VERY unlikely that none of the 3 americans or culson or van zyl will run this slow again. as far as the rest of the story...

[mump boy]

When he goes after Christine Ohourugu, a team mate, I will be more impressed with his stand.

When CO gets caught with illegal substances in her system maybe he will

But Greene's addressing "cheating", not just illegal-substances-in-the-system, and from an IAAF standpoint a missed test is pretty much the same as a failed test. If he judges that Merritt's failed test equates to cheating then why wouldn't he judge the same of Ohourugu?

An avoided or refusal of a test is the same, a missed test is not

anyway i don't want to get into all that again

while i agree with what Dai said he was ill advised to say it (if he in fact did) and the idea that he will even be on the relay team never mind have the lack of disipline to confront someone on the start line is suspect, especially when he will then go and get his arse kicked

[Conor Dary]

'The 400m runner (Christine Ohuruogu) was banned for missing three drugs tests...'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/6527271.stm

And as gh says,

'A missed-test ban is the same as a tested-positive one.'

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45461&p=736847

[Grasshopper]

wonder how long it would take Merritt to learn how to hurdle passably?

Maybe he should give Calvin Davis a call

[Jon]

A so so 400 man

Um, the world 400m hurdles champion.

...with the slowest winning time in the history of the WC's.

Not doubting that. Just saying that he is more than "a so so 400 man".

i agree that 48.2 is NOT going to win olympic gold in his event. it is VERY unlikely that none of the 3 americans or culson or van zyl will run this slow again.

And surely it's just as unlikely that Greene will run that slow again?

I doubt Dai Greene would say that

Greene tweeted the link earlier and thanked the writer (Ian Stafford) for the piece, so it looks like he stands by what he said. But I'm not going to be drawn on the debate of whether what he said was right or not.

[preston]

A so so 400 man

Um, the world 400m hurdles champion.

...with the slowest winning time in the history of the WC's.

Not doubting that. Just saying that he is more than "a so so 400 man".

I think Greene can win the 400h in London, but let's be real, Jon, he's a so so 400 man. He ran a PB 45.82 400m last year and that's not even A-standard (it might not even be B-Standard, don't want to look it up). How is that not so so? Even if he were to run 45.40 he would still be so so. Don't let the sorry state of mens 400m running fool you.

[Grasshopper]

A so so 400 man

Um, the world 400m hurdles champion.

...with the slowest winning time in the history of the WC's.

Not doubting that. Just saying that he is more than "a so so 400 man".

He's got a 400m PR of 45.82 (accoring to his IAAF bio). Compared to Merritt I think it's fair to call him a "so so 400m man".

i agree that 48.2 is NOT going to win olympic gold in his event. it is VERY unlikely that none of the 3 americans or culson or van zyl will run this slow again.

And surely it's just as unlikely that Greene will run that slow again?

It's much more likely that Greene (1 person) will run that slow again than than that all 5 of the others will. All it takes is one of those (long list of Americans, VanZyl, Culson, Sanchez) to run close to their PR for Greene to lose (unless he, too, PR's). Mathematically speaking, the odds ARE against him.

[Jon]

FFS, people are completely missing my point. Of course Greene can't compete with Merritt at 400m, I'm not doubting that. ALL I was saying is that Greene isn't ONLY known for his "so-so" abilities over the 400m flat. If someone is going to refer to Merrit as "one of the best ever over 400m", why not refer to Greene with what he too is best known for being - ie the world 400m hurdles champ.

[bruce3404]

i agree that 48.2 is NOT going to win olympic gold in his event. it is VERY unlikely that none of the 3 americans or culson or van zyl will run this slow again. as far as the rest of the story...

I'm putting my money on Jeshua Anderson. Last year he had a collegiate season to worry about before the WC; this year he'll only have to peak twice.

[dunedine]

First, one has got to think that conditions and circumstances prevailing during the 400mh final in Daegu may have slowed down times altogether, recalling that it took some time even to get going (a false-start and so on).

I reckon that Dai Greene can add the Olympic title to his name but it's going to be tight between three-four. The Americans usually raise their game in Olympic seasons and I'd expect to see some mid 47s, or even faster, this season by the likes of Bershawn Jackson, Angelo Taylor or Jonny Dutch, meaning that Dai will have to move up to this tier too.

Greene hasn't got anywhere near the flat speed of Taylor but his greatest weapons are his amazing consistency and his mentality, which turned instrumental in winning in Daegu. And it is where he is going to draw on heavily to pull it off once again. Fatigue will come in through the rounds and his strength can tell once more over the raw speed of others.

That said, I wouldn't be that surprised if there could emerge a new UK no1 in the event come to that. I feel we're going to see some massive breakthroughs by both Jack Green and Nathan Woodward this coming summer and maybe even inside 48 secs. Jack says he's going for gold in London and personally I can tell there's substance behind that claim.

Finally, as concerns Greene's comments on Daily Mail, I think they were unnecessary and unwarranted. Further, I don't think there's even a 2% chance of him clashing with Merritt over the same leg, let alone the projected strength of the British 4x400m this summer is going to make it tough to make the first choice quartet anyway.

[Grasshopper]

FFS, people are completely missing my point. Of course Greene can't compete with Merritt at 400m, I'm not doubting that. ALL I was saying is that Greene isn't ONLY known for his "so-so" abilities over the 400m flat. If someone is going to refer to Merrit as "one of the best ever over 400m", why not refer to Greene with what he too is best known for being - ie the world 400m hurdles champ.

Because Greene wasn't discussing the 400h in his rant. He was discussing the 4x400 relay, a team he's unlikely to be selected for because he's only a "so so 400m runner".

[JumboElliott]

Why are Brits so sanctimonious and annoying about "cheats" from other countries?

[AS]

Why are Brits so sanctimonious and annoying about "cheats" from other countries?

Pot, meet kettle.

It would be reasonable to say that's the attitude of most folks... the colour of one's uniform seems to overwhelm any other logic...

East Germans & Russians of Cold War era = bad
Western athletes of same period = misunderstood geniuses

Chinese distance women of mid 90s = robot harpies out to destroy life as we know it
African distance freaks of past two decades = beyond repute

Rare Jamaican Bad Boy = proof of entire program of mischief
USAian positive = bad apple who can't read medicine bottles or has non-sport related bedroom problems

...and on it goes...

[JumboElliott]

I really don't care. More people have gotten away with cheating than have been caught, and some of the loudest protestors are almost assuredly dopers themselves.

[berkeley]

The Daily Mail is a right wing tabloid similar to the National Enquirer

Horsehockey.

I thought I might get a challenge or two to that statement OK, I admit they are not exactly equivalent (and maybe I was just being provocative), but in the general quality of the content, the yawning chasm between much if it and actual truth/news, and the abysmal literary standards, there is not that much difference.

[bman]

Regardless what Lashawn Merritt's intent was, it remains to be seen if he can run at a PR level without taking DHEA.

[berkeley]

Why are Brits so sanctimonious and annoying about "cheats" from other countries?

Couldn't agree more. Sotherton is another one. Perhaps it's no coincidence that the most successful Brits in recent times have not generally been so fixated on how the playing field is stacked against them. I've never heard Holmes, Ennis, Idowu or Ohourugu moaning about it (I include the latter because I don't believe she cheated, as in purposefully). I almost hope Greene does win, so I won't have to listen to him laying the blame on someone else's drug regime. He's starting already on someone who isn't even a threat to his potential Olympic aspirations.

If Greene makes any kind of public gesture during the Olympic 4x4, that will make it two embarrassing spectacles in a row, after Rooney's shameful taunting carry-on in Beijing. Perhaps team management should deliver a preemptive lecture about representing the home country with dignity.