Ato training football players

[Marlow]

It was in my local rag today and I see it on the front-page here. It reminds me once again how POORLY non-tracksters are at starting. I'd guess he routinely shaves .2 off a 40 by teaching them fundamental starting skills. Good starting is not intuitive and can be significantly improved with smart training. We think tracksters are faster than football players because of their 100 times, but the truth is the 100 requires a speed-maintenance component that footballers don't train, and their starts are so fugly. With proper training I do believe that some NFLers would indeed be 'world-class'! I see some running backs and receivers easily pull away from nominal 4.3 types and ya know they gotta have 'it'.

[JumboElliott]

Randy Moss would have made a great 200 or 4x100 relay runner.

[Avante]

It was in my local rag today and I see it on the front-page here. It reminds me once again how POORLY non-tracksters are at starting. I'd guess he routinely shaves .2 off a 40 by teaching them fundamental starting skills. Good starting is not intuitive and can be significantly improved with smart training. We think tracksters are faster than football players because of their 100 times, but the truth is the 100 requires a speed-maintenance component that footballers don't train, and their starts are so fugly. With proper training I do believe that some NFLers would indeed be 'world-class'! I see some running backs and receivers easily pull away from nominal 4.3 types and ya know they gotta have 'it'.

The fastest NFLers were all world class sprinters.

The fastest non tracksters but obvious speedy footballers. Not talking about high school.

Chris Johnson
Eric Dickerson
Gale Sayers
Desuan Johnson
Devin Hester
Joey Galloway
Tony Dorsett
Randy Moss

Rocket Ismail did run some track while at ND, Bo Jackson was on that Auburn track team. Obviously both knew the NFL was going to be their future so we have to question how seriously they took track.

Ato might help with a combine 40 time but that's it.

I do doubt that any of them would have been on a par with Hayes, Gault, Dickey, Green. Regardless of what they had done. Very few NFL backs can cook 90 yards, too thick and muscular. Usually some db can run them down.......just ask Bo Jackson.

No a days these guys are footballers/tracksters most the time, we don't see those Ray Norton/Frank Budd/Jimmy Hines situations anymore. They don't need to try and make a footballer out of a sprinter, they already have enought speedsters.

[Avante]

Randy Moss would have made a great 200 or 4x100 relay runner.

He did run a little at Marshall but did nothing to speak of. I think his event would have been the 400. I can see a 45.5ish. I do doubt he'd be a sub10.00/20.00.

[gh]

Moss was the Southern Conference indoor 200 champ in '97, ran 21.15 on an oversized (but flat) track. Decent time.

[preston]

Randy Moss would have made a great 200 or 4x100 relay runner.

He did run a little at Marshall but did nothing to speak of. I think his event would have been the 400. I can see a 45.5ish. I do doubt he'd be a sub10.00/20.00.

Moss could have been a 400m runner like Tyson Gay COULD be a 400m runner...but everything about HOW Moss sprints says that he's a short sprinter - a very tall short sprinter, but a short sprinter, nonetheless. I believe Moss could have been sub-10 and sub-20! Remember, he was also Mr. Basketball in West VIrginia.

[Avante]

Randy Moss would have made a great 200 or 4x100 relay runner.

He did run a little at Marshall but did nothing to speak of. I think his event would have been the 400. I can see a 45.5ish. I do doubt he'd be a sub10.00/20.00.

Moss could have been a 400m runner like Tyson Gay COULD be a 400m runner...but everything about HOW Moss sprints says that he's a short sprinter - a very tall short sprinter, but a short sprinter, nonetheless. I believe Moss could have been sub-10 and sub-20! Remember, he was also Mr. Basketball in West VIrginia.

Totally disagree. There is nothing about him that says sub10.00/sub20.00. His only claim to fame in sprinting was a lackluster 200m. Which tells me he's not about explosion but endurance which is the 400m. He's a strider, a lot like a Mark Witherspoon.

[gh]

a flat-floor 21.15 anything but lackluster when put in proper historical perspective.

At the NCAA that year (on a far-faster banked oval) only 2 of the 8 finalists (in two 4-man sections) broke 21; 3 ran slower than 21.15.

[Avante]

a flat-floor 21.15 anything but lackluster when put in proper historical perspective.

At the NCAA that year (on a far-faster banked oval) only 2 of the 8 finalists (in two 4-man sections) broke 21; 3 ran slower than 21.15.

We are seeing sub10.00/sub20.00 being throw around here, so yes winning that conference where a 21.13 is the conference record and nobody has ever broke a 6.70 in the 60.....doesn't really rev my engines too much. Really can't....a 21.15..wow....oh hell yes a19.99 next up.

A decent 200 guy in a weak sprint conference is what he was.

[JumboElliott]

Randy Moss' 21.15 was apparently after three days of practice.

[Avante]

Randy Moss' 21.15 was apparently after three days of practice.

The indoor 200m at the collegiate level has been ran in sub 20.50 many times. Spearmon ...20.10. Yes...indoors! Now I 'm suppose to...wow!...over a 21.15? You ever looked at an all time NCAA..indoor...200m list?

Randy Moss is blowing by guys who usually don't possess sprint speed. Go ahead give me the names of those speedy cornerbacks? Well...

Darrel Green...10.08
Deion Sanders...10.26
Terrence Newman...10.20
Stanford Routt...20.6ish

Back when Hayes was blowing by guys the fastest cornerback...Leonard Lyles 9.5. Hayes 9.1. Lyles by far the fastest cornerback.

Moss is usually dealing with guys who couldn't break 10.40 so there is this illusion of him being faster than he really is/was. Not unlike...Alvin Harper, Don Maynard, Roger Carr and others.

Moss had...good..speed and f he'd taken track/sprinting seriously.....hmmm?...10.35/20.85/45.5..seem realistic.

[Grasshopper]

Moss had...good..speed and f he'd taken track/sprinting seriously.....hmmm?...10.35/20.85/45.5..seem realistic.

So you think that with serious track training he would've only reduced his 200m time by .3 seconds from indoors to outdoors?

[JumboElliott]

21.15 on an unbanked indoor track is flying.

[26mi235]

21.15 on an unbanked indoor track is flying.

The differential between a modern banked 200 and that flat 200 on what was probably a slowish track is on the order of at least a half of a second (check the

Here are the UW track records, also a flat 200.
Facility: F 21.31 1993 Chris Nelloms, Ohio State
Big Ten: B 20.57 1994 Chris Nelloms, Ohio State

the 21.31 was the Big Ten Meet the prior year, so he was likely not in too much less shape. That differential is 0.74 seconds, or put another way, 21.31 is 0.16 above 21.15, so that takes 20.57 to 20.41. Now, the fact that he was not track-trained at the time would account for quite a bit of time, including that running a flat 200 untrained probably means he is giving up more and than average and and his height would also disadvantage him compared to outdoors. Add to the the differential that good starting mechanics (and reaction time) would account for and we are down into 19.x territory. Avante, you are often good on sprint stuff but you are far too dismissive of this without really assessing the particulars.

[Avante]

21.15 on an unbanked indoor track is flying.

The differential between a modern banked 200 and that flat 200 on what was probably a slowish track is on the order of at least a half of a second (check the

Here are the UW track records, also a flat 200.
Facility: F 21.31 1993 Chris Nelloms, Ohio State
Big Ten: B 20.57 1994 Chris Nelloms, Ohio State

the 21.31 was the Big Ten Meet the prior year, so he was likely not in too much less shape. That differential is 0.74 seconds, or put another way, 21.31 is 0.16 above 21.15, so that takes 20.57 to 20.41. Now, the fact that he was not track-trained at the time would account for quite a bit of time, including that running a flat 200 untrained probably means he is giving up more and than average and and his height would also disadvantage him compared to outdoors. Add to the the differential that good starting mechanics (and reaction time) would account for and we are down into 19.x territory. Avante, you are often good on sprint stuff but you are far too dismissive of this without really assessing the particulars.

I've seen enought sprinting to know better than to put too much into one performance. I need a little more than that before I start talking about coulda/woulda/shoulda.

[Avante]

Moss had...good..speed and f he'd taken track/sprinting seriously.....hmmm?...10.35/20.85/45.5..seem realistic.

So you think that with serious track training he would've only reduced his 200m time by .3 seconds from indoors to outdoors?

I don't know what he might have done and neither does anyone else. What I do know is that we need more than...a...indoor 200m before we start....he woulda, he coulda..................

[26mi235]

Moss had...good..speed and f he'd taken track/sprinting seriously.....hmmm?...10.35/20.85/45.5..seem realistic.

So you think that with serious track training he would've only reduced his 200m time by .3 seconds from indoors to outdoors?

I don't know what he might have done and neither does anyone else. What I do know is that we need more than...a...indoor 200m before we start....he woulda, he coulda..................

His only claim to fame in sprinting was a lackluster 200m.

The 21.15 (21.13?) has been shown to be significantly better than lackluster. Better than 20.00, probably not, but using some of the reasonable numbers for adjustment, together with his minimal sprint training, it is well past your lackluster characterization.

Put another way, when you have as much history and background on the sprints as you do you need to be careful in sprints as you do you need to carefully guard your comments against needless hyperbole (antihyperbole) or you will lose the authority your accumulation of posts otherwise brings to the topics.

[Avante]

Let's give him some props for not being a seasoned sprinter, track and 1997.

This is today (Xavier Carter ran a 20.69 in HS)

1 Holston, Marquis JR-3 Norfolk State 20.68 # MEAC Indoor Track & Field Championships 02/16/12 02/18/12
2 Webb, Ameer JR-3 Texas A&M 20.79 Texas A&M Invitational 02/11/12 02/12/12
3 Gauntlett, Akheem JR-3 Arkansas 20.82 Razorback Invitational 01/27/12 01/29/12
4 Butler, Kind SR-4 Indiana 20.85 SPIRE NCAA Division I Indoor Track & Field Invitational 02/10/12 02/11/12
5 Tate, Tavaris JR-3 Mississippi St. 20.93 2012 New Balance Collegiate Invitational 02/03/12 02/05/12
6 Walsh, Andre JR-3 Maryland-Eastern Shore 20.95 # UMES Coach O College Invitational 01/07/12 01/08/12
7 Jobodwana, Anaso FR-1 Jackson State 20.97 # Tiger Paw Invitational 02/10/12 02/11/12
8 Hardy, Jr., Prezel SO-2 Texas A&M 20.99 Texas A&M Challenge Presented by Mondo America 01/27/12 01/29/12
9 Williams, Horatio SR-4 Florida State 21.02 SPIRE NCAA Division I Indoor Track & Field Invitational 02/10/12 02/11/12
10 Niit, Marek JR-3 Arkansas 21.03 Tyson Invitational 02/10/12 02/12/12
11 Hadnot, Trey SO-2 Louisiana Tech 21.04 # Arkansas State Invitational 01/27/12 01/29/12
12 Boey, Zye JR-3 Eastern Illinois 21.07 Indiana University Relays 01/27/12 01/28/12
13 Austin, Justin SR-4 Iowa 21.08 # Iowa Invitational 02/17/12 02/18/12
14 Lawrence, Torrin SR-4 Georgia 21.12 VT Elite Meet 02/03/12 02/04/12
14 Storey, Waymon SO-2 Georgia 21.12 Tyson Invitational

The bottom line is this....this is Randy Moss!!!!!!!!!!! Put a 21.13 beside any other collegiate sprinter and nobody is thinking....what can this guy do, sub10.00. sub20.00???? High school kids are running faster than that....indoors! It's just not something that grabs you if you know the 200m. Sure for a footballer who probably didn't care much for track....good time!!!!!!!..but that's as far as...I...go with it.

[preston]

Totally disagree. There is nothing about him that says sub10.00/sub20.00. His only claim to fame in sprinting was a lackluster 200m. Which tells me he's not about explosion but endurance which is the 400m. He's a strider, a lot like a Mark Witherspoon.

Wrong, he's not a strider! Just the fact that you say that means that you don't know anything about sprinters cadences. This is a LOT different than consulting your database or memory; totally different skill set and you don't have it.

I don't know what he might have done and neither does anyone else. What I do know is that we need more than...a...indoor 200m before we start....he woulda, he coulda..................

Typical Avante, definitely wrong.

If we need more info to determine that he could have been a sub-10/sub-20 sprinter then we would need more info to know that he could be a 400m runner as well. But, these types of arguments only seem to work one way for you, yours.

Your problem is that you think knowing arcane statistics and youtube are a substitute for actually being there and/or doing it; 21.15 on a 200m flat track for someone with 3 days of practics is about as good as it gets. The only 200m flat track that puts up those types of times is Gainesville, FL (and you probably don't even know why Gainesville is "fast") unless you are fast as H##L.

You're that silly guy who thinks he knows something because he skimmed it in a book or glanced at it on TV; you don't understand the talent or discipline that excellent performances actually require. If you did, you wouldn't be compelled to list tons of sprinters NOT NAMED RANDY MOSS, or who weren't even 200m runners! Get it together, you're embarrassing yourself.

[preston]

Let's give him some props for not being a seasoned sprinter, track and 1997.

This is today (Xavier Carter ran a 20.69 in HS)...blah, blah, blah

Xavier Carter and every other athlete that you posted ran their time on a banked track. As usual, you haven't furthered your cause.

[26mi235]

Avante, most of that list is comparing apples and oranges and it is your blowing off the differential effects that is the hole in your assessment. Running a 20.7 at SPIRE probably is not as good as, and possibly not nearly as good as a 21.13 on a (modest quality) flat 200. Then, if indeed, he did this off of several days sprint training, then there is a lot (tenths) to be gained in the start. There is a lot also (tenths) to be gained in the curve. In addition, what you brought out was those sprinter's best efforts. Go get their first indoor 200 and see how they compare.

[Avante]

Avante, most of that list is comparing apples and oranges and it is your blowing off the differential effects that is the hole in your assessment. Running a 20.7 at SPIRE probably is not as good as, and possibly not nearly as good as a 21.13 on a (modest quality) flat 200. Then, if indeed, he did this off of several days sprint training, then there is a lot (tenths) to be gained in the start. There is a lot also (tenths) to be gained in the curve. In addition, what you brought out was those sprinter's best efforts. Go get their first indoor 200 and see how they compare.

What we really want to do is see who took second and third in that 97 race and what they ran later on. Let's see how big a difference on that track that day and what came later for them. Then do some comparisons.

[gh]

....
I've seen enought sprinting to know better than to put too much into one performance. I need a little more than that before I start talking about coulda/woulda/shoulda.

Can we hold you to this? Does this mean that never again we'll have to see one of your repetitive lists citing Francis Baldwin as a 9.2 guy back in the day?

[Avante]

....
I've seen enought sprinting to know better than to put too much into one performance. I need a little more than that before I start talking about coulda/woulda/shoulda.

Can we hold you to this? Does this mean that never again we'll have to see one of your repetitive lists citing Francis Baldwin as a 9.2 guy back in the day?

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!

Great example and if you recall that's how I alway use him. Good on gh.

So who out there sees Randy Moss as something other than...

paste..

Anytime a fast guy like Randy Moss -- a long strider -- gets going," ... With a tall, rangy receiver such as Moss.

[preston]

....
I've seen enought sprinting to know better than to put too much into one performance. I need a little more than that before I start talking about coulda/woulda/shoulda.

Can we hold you to this? Does this mean that never again we'll have to see one of your repetitive lists citing Francis Baldwin as a 9.2 guy back in the day?

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!

Great example and if you recall that's how I alway use him. Good on gh.

So who out there sees Randy Moss as something other than...

paste..

Anytime a fast guy like Randy Moss -- a long strider -- gets going," ... With a tall, rangy receiver such as Moss.

But, that's again your problem: Randy Moss is NOT a long strider! This is obvious and the fact that you don't recognize it makes it nearly impossible to have a discussion with you about it. Long striders tend to hit FURTHER in front of their center of gravity than do pure sprinters. Sprinters hit closer to directly under their center of gravity - this is EXACTLY what Moss does. You're confusing tall with long striding; it doesn't work that way (Rouser, long stride; Dopek, not so much) You think that if you keep typing it that it will be so, but Moss' reminds me more of Bolt

[Avante]

....
I've seen enought sprinting to know better than to put too much into one performance. I need a little more than that before I start talking about coulda/woulda/shoulda.

Can we hold you to this? Does this mean that never again we'll have to see one of your repetitive lists citing Francis Baldwin as a 9.2 guy back in the day?

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!

Great example and if you recall that's how I alway use him. Good on gh.

So who out there sees Randy Moss as something other than...

paste..

Anytime a fast guy like Randy Moss -- a long strider -- gets going," ... With a tall, rangy receiver such as Moss.

But, that's again your problem: Randy Moss is NOT a long strider! This is obvious and the fact that you don't recognize it makes it nearly impossible to have a discussion with you about it. Long striders tend to hit FURTHER in front of their center of gravity than do pure sprinters. Sprinters hit closer to directly under their center of gravity - this is EXACTLY what Moss does. You're confusing tall with long striding; it doesn't work that way (Rouser, long stride; Dopek, not so much) You think that if you keep typing it that it will be so, but Moss' reminds me more of Bolt

I don't care who he reminds you off there is absolutely no doubt than Randy Moss is without question a long strider. Now you're becoming a cartoon. What do you think his stide was, I'll tell you what it wasn't...short....Preston like I mentioned...it's not going to work. You're now looking like a clown.

[preston]

I don't care who he reminds you off there is absolutely no doubt than Randy Moss is without question a long strider. Now you're becoming a cartoon. What do you think his stide was, I'll tell you what it wasn't...short....Preston like I mentioned...it's not going to work. You're now looking like a clown.

I might be a clown but it's you who is making yourself look silly. Randy Moss is NOT a long strider. Your problem is that you throw out terms that you DON'T understand. Bolt, though 6'5" and possessing one of the longest strides for a sprinter is NOT a longstrider ; though Juantorena WAS a long strider (Michael Frater COULD be considered a long strider -not sure I'd go THAT far - even though he's 10" shorter than Bolt). Michael Johnson is taller than Jeremy Warniner but Wariner is a longstrider while Johnson is NOT. Butch Reynolds was a long strider, Quincy Watts was not. Until you learn that it's near pointless to have a conversation with you.

[Avante]

I don't care who he reminds you off there is absolutely no doubt than Randy Moss is without question a long strider. Now you're becoming a cartoon. What do you think his stide was, I'll tell you what it wasn't...short....Preston like I mentioned...it's not going to work. You're now looking like a clown.

I might be a clown but it's you who is making yourself look silly. Randy Moss is NOT a long strider. Your problem is that you throw out terms that you DON'T understand. Bolt, though 6'5" and possessing one of the longest strides for a sprinter is NOT a longstrider ; though Juantorena WAS a long strider (Michael Frater COULD be considered a long strider -not sure I'd go THAT far - even though he's 10" shorter than Bolt). Michael Johnson is taller than Jeremy Warniner but Wariner is a longstrider while Johnson is NOT. Butch Reynolds was a long strider, Quincy Watts was not. Until you learn that it's near pointless to have a conversation with you.

I'm not talking about height.... I'm talking about a guys stride. Let me guess...jesse Owens wasn't a long stride....haha! Edwin Moses....long strider! Randy Moss....long strider! I gotta be honest.....I was kinda thinking you knew this stuff.....well you just blew it.

[preston]

I don't care who he reminds you off there is absolutely no doubt than Randy Moss is without question a long strider. Now you're becoming a cartoon. What do you think his stide was, I'll tell you what it wasn't...short....Preston like I mentioned...it's not going to work. You're now looking like a clown.

I might be a clown but it's you who is making yourself look silly. Randy Moss is NOT a long strider. Your problem is that you throw out terms that you DON'T understand. Bolt, though 6'5" and possessing one of the longest strides for a sprinter is NOT a longstrider ; though Juantorena WAS a long strider (Michael Frater COULD be considered a long strider -not sure I'd go THAT far - even though he's 10" shorter than Bolt). Michael Johnson is taller than Jeremy Warniner but Wariner is a longstrider while Johnson is NOT. Butch Reynolds was a long strider, Quincy Watts was not. Until you learn that it's near pointless to have a conversation with you.

I'm not talking about height.... I'm talking about a guys stride. Let me guess...jesse Owens wasn't a long stride....haha! Edwin Moses....long strider! Randy Moss....long strider! I gotta be honest.....I was kinda thinking you knew this stuff.....well you just blew it.

Actually, I didn't blow anything, you did, and you have no clue what you're talking about; stride, height...it doesn't make a difference, you're wrong: Moss isn't a long strider. Edwin Moses is; Jesse Owens isn't. It's sad how wrong you are, but you continue to punch forward like you have a leg to stand on.

[Avante]

I don't care who he reminds you off there is absolutely no doubt than Randy Moss is without question a long strider. Now you're becoming a cartoon. What do you think his stide was, I'll tell you what it wasn't...short....Preston like I mentioned...it's not going to work. You're now looking like a clown.

I might be a clown but it's you who is making yourself look silly. Randy Moss is NOT a long strider. Your problem is that you throw out terms that you DON'T understand. Bolt, though 6'5" and possessing one of the longest strides for a sprinter is NOT a longstrider ; though Juantorena WAS a long strider (Michael Frater COULD be considered a long strider -not sure I'd go THAT far - even though he's 10" shorter than Bolt). Michael Johnson is taller than Jeremy Warniner but Wariner is a longstrider while Johnson is NOT. Butch Reynolds was a long strider, Quincy Watts was not. Until you learn that it's near pointless to have a conversation with you.

I'm not talking about height.... I'm talking about a guys stride. Let me guess...jesse Owens wasn't a long stride....haha! Edwin Moses....long strider! Randy Moss....long strider! I gotta be honest.....I was kinda thinking you knew this stuff.....well you just blew it.

Actually, I didn't blow anything, you did, and you have no clue what you're talking about; stride, height...it doesn't make a difference, you're wrong: Moss isn't a long strider. Edwin Moses is; Jesse Owens isn't. It's sad how wrong you are, but you continue to punch forward like you have a leg to stand on.

What's really sad is you thinking anyone who has ever seen Moss run would think......dude needs a stride, poor little guy Do you workout with...DUH!...weights? You can stop.....you're there

Randy Moss is not a long stider.....hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Preston, do not leave your house today, you're dangerous.

[preston]

What's really sad is you thinking anyone who has ever seen Moss run would think......dude needs a stride, poor little guy Do you workout with...DUH!...weights? You can stop.....you're there

Randy Moss is not a long stider.....hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're really having a bad day. Again, Moss isn't a long strider. Bolt isn't a long strider. Juantorena IS a long strider. Tons of people have seen both Moss and Bolt run and though their strides may cover more ground than many (which is actually a function of the force the produce at ground contact) they aren't long striders. Again, you wouldn't know this by finding/knowing/regurgitating Jurassic stats, this is known by actually studying the sprints and or running - something you obviously haven't done.

[Avante]

What's really sad is you thinking anyone who has ever seen Moss run would think......dude needs a stride, poor little guy Do you workout with...DUH!...weights? You can stop.....you're there

Randy Moss is not a long stider.....hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're really having a bad day. Again, Moss isn't a long strider. Bolt isn't a long strider. Juantorena IS a long strider. Tons of people have seen both Moss and Bolt run and though their strides may cover more ground than many (which is actually a function of the force the produce at ground contact) they aren't long striders. Again, you wouldn't know this by finding/knowing/regurgitating Jurassic stats, this is known by actually studying the sprints and or running - something you obviously haven't done.

Anytime I can take a fool like you apart...great day Where did I mention any stats? I'm talking about the guys stride. For anyone to try and talk about Randy Moss as anything other than a long strider knows...0...about this stuff. He is all about stride...please don't...well ya seell it's actually a function ...at ground....hahahahaha!!!!!!!! Dude you're killing me.

I was a sprinter/running back/kick returner/db.

[preston]

Anytime I can take a fool like you apart...great day Where did I mention any stats? I'm talking about the guys stride. For anyone to try and talk about Randy Moss as anything other than a long strider knows...0...about this stuff. He is all about stride...please don't...well ya seell it's actually a function ...at ground....hahahahaha!!!!!!!! Dude you're killing me.

I was a sprinter/running back/kick returner/db.

Tell tale sign that you're losing an argument is that you start declaring victory, begin throwing in more ad hominems, and trying to change the subject. You don't know anything about this stuff. Stick to Jurassic Stats, you're out of your element when you can't copy and paste. I know that I'm killing you, but it's not my intent, I just wanted to help you understand that you have no clue about what Moss' potential is principally because you don't understand what kind of sprinter he was. We've already dismissed your 21.15 after 3 days of practice on a flat track to win the conference championship is nothing... It really doesn't matter where it goes, outside of regurgitating obscure stats, you don't know anything about running. That's not bad, I don't know why it hurts you to just admit it.

[Avante]

Anytime I can take a fool like you apart...great day Where did I mention any stats? I'm talking about the guys stride. For anyone to try and talk about Randy Moss as anything other than a long strider knows...0...about this stuff. He is all about stride...please don't...well ya seell it's actually a function ...at ground....hahahahaha!!!!!!!! Dude you're killing me.

I was a sprinter/running back/kick returner/db.

Tell tale sign that you're losing an argument is that you start declaring victory, begin throwing in more ad hominems, and trying to change the subject. You don't know anything about this stuff. Stick to Jurassic Stats, you're out of your element when you can't copy and paste. I know that I'm killing you, but it's not my intent, I just wanted to help you understand that you have no clue about what Moss' potential is principally because you don't understand what kind of sprinter he was. We've already dismissed your 21.15 after 3 days of practice on a flat track to win the conference championship is nothing... It really doesn't matter where it goes, outside of regurgitating obscure stats, you don't know anything about running. That's not bad, I don't know why it hurts you to just admit it.

Let;s try some facts....ok?

Before we start talking about just what did that 21 second 200 mean we need a few things to put it in better perspective. First and foremost....what is the track record? Well what is it? Then we need to know what those behind him in that race have done. Obviously if the guy who took second went outdoors and...20.35....well...whoa! If however he slipped into...22-2ville...hmmm?

So far you haven't shown me anything other than....

Preston...Moss is not a long strider.
Avante...yes he is!

You really think that's going to wotk Guess what.....it's not.

So far you haven't proven or showed me anything.

I tell you what, if Moss was close to the track record then.....ya took my head and rammed it into the turnbuckel, I'm a bloody mess......as you wave to the crowd and they chant...PRESTON! PRESTON! ...etc! etc!

We need that track record.

[preston]

Let;s try some facts....ok?

Before we start talking about just what did that 21 second 200 mean we need a few things to put it in better perspective. First and foremost....what is the track record? Well what is it? Then we need to know what those behind him in that race have done. Obviously if the guy who took second went outdoors and...20.35....well...whoa! If however he slipped into...22-2ville...hmmm? So far you haven't shown me anything other than.... Preston...Moss is not a long strider. Avante...yes he is! You really think that's going to wotk Guess what.....it's not. So far you haven't proven or showed me anything. I tell you what, if Moss was close to the track record then.....ya took my head and rammed it into the turnbuckel, I'm a bloody mess......as you wave to the crowd and they chant...PRESTON! PRESTON! ...etc! etc!

We need that track record.

If you want the track record, go do some research and find it. But, again you're wrong; knowing what someone else ran doesn't tell us what Moss would/coulda ran. If you applied your logic equally you would see this, otherwise, you wouldn't have made your other comment about not knowing what he would be off one race and then turn around and say he would be w 400m runner - off of one race. Moss is not a long strider; you keep trying to apply football jargon to track and it doesn't work like that. Moss would have been a 1/2 sprinter! Everything about how he's wired says so.