Junior Shot Put '13 [Bukowiecki 22.24 WYBi]


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Re: Junior Shot Put '13

Postby Tuariki » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:10 pm

It should be a great competition in 2 years time with Storl v Whiting v Jacko. I would expect we will see the 20.65 mark go soon.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:58 pm

Excellent interview. I'm very impressed with Gill's attitude.
VIDEO: Full interview: Jacko Gill speaks after world junior shot put record throw
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby puddys12 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:38 am

What does Jacko 23.00 convert to Carter's 24.77. is it close ?
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby derby_county » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:15 am

puddys12 wrote:What does Jacko 23.00 convert to Carter's 24.77. is it close ?


Converting by weight only (other factors are involved):
23.00 with 6kg = 25.35 with 12lb
24.77 with 12lb = 22.47 with 6kg
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:27 am

derby_county wrote:
puddys12 wrote:What does Jacko 23.00 convert to Carter's 24.77. is it close ?
Converting by weight only (other factors are involved):
75' 5½" with 6kg = 83' 2" with 12lb
81' 3¼" with 12lb = 73' 8¾" with 6kg

7' 8½" increase for 2 lbs? Seems a bit much?

*edit: changed 24.77m conversion
Last edited by bushop on Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Marlow » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:39 am

bushop wrote:75' 5½" with 6kg = 83' 2" with 12lb

No way, Jose.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:46 am

Marlow wrote:
bushop wrote:75' 5½" with 6kg = 83' 2" with 12lb
No way, Jose.

Are my metric to english conversions inaccurate?
22.47m = 73' 8¾"
23.00m = 75' 5½"
24.77m = 81' 3¼"
25.35m = 83' 2"
According to <http://www.usatf.org/statistics/calculators/markConversions/>
Last edited by bushop on Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:01 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby gh » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:50 am

they are
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:01 am

gh wrote:they are

These are wrong?
23.00m = 75' 5½"
25.35m = 83' 2"
bushop wrote:75' 5½" with 6kg = 83' 2" with 12lb
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Marlow » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:09 am

bushop wrote:These are wrong?
23.00m = 75' 5½"
25.35m = 83' 2"]

No, your supposition that the conversions are in any way 'real' are. You have used math models, which, as we tried to explain to Eldrick, have little application to the human body's biomechanical realities.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:34 am

bushop wrote:
derby_county wrote:
puddys12 wrote:What does Jacko 23.00 convert to Carter's 24.77. is it close ?
Converting by weight only (other factors are involved):
75' 5½" with 6kg = 83' 2" with 12lb
81' 3¼" with 12lb = 73' 8¾" with 6kg
7' 8½" increase for 2 lbs? Seems a bit much?
Marlow wrote:
bushop wrote:These are wrong?
23.00m = 75' 5½"
25.35m = 83' 2"]
No, your supposition that the conversions are in any way 'real' are. You have used math models, which, as we tried to explain to Eldrick, have little application to the human body's biomechanical realities.

I didn't make the comparisons or suppositions... in fact it seems as though you and Jose agree. I was quoting derby_county and mentioned that his comparisons seemed a bit much (see above post). I also converted the distances to English in my post.
Last edited by bushop on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Marlow » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:21 am

bushop wrote:I was quoting derby_county and mentioned that his comparisons seemed a bit much (see above post). I also converted the distances to English in my post.

Oh . . . :oops: . . . my bad . . . I profusely apologize!
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:23 pm

Marlow wrote:
bushop wrote:I was quoting derby_county and mentioned that his comparisons seemed a bit much (see above post). I also converted the distances to English in my post.
Oh . . . :oops: . . . my bad . . . I profusely apologize!

No worries... sadly I doubt Gill will ever throw the 5.44 kg (12 lb) ball and his supporters will point to the 75' 5½" with 6kg mark as superior to Carter's 81' 3¼".

The other record sitting out there is Carter's age-18 record with the 7.26kg ball of 20.65m (67 '9") on July 4, 1979.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby dbirds » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:40 pm

Are Gill and his coach familiar with Carter's record? As much as he loves breaking records, you'd think he might go for it!
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby derby_county » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:02 pm

dbirds wrote:Are Gill and his coach familiar with Carter's record? As much as he loves breaking records, you'd think he might go for it!


Yes, they know all about Carter...and Albritton
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby derby_county » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:09 pm

bushop wrote:I didn't make the comparisons or suppositions... in fact it seems as though you and Jose agree. I was quoting derby_county and mentioned that his comparisons seemed a bit much (see above post). I also converted the distances to English in my post.


As I mentioned the conversion is for weight only, not as gh mentioned, other biomechanical factors. The conversions for distance using only the difference in weight are correct but this does not mean that actual throws will reflect this. This is obvious if you compare Jacko's 6k and 7.26 throws. 6 is slightly less than 5/6 the weight of the senior weight therefore you might expect the comparative distance to be 5/6, but 5/6 of 23.00 is 19.17 and Jacko has already done 20.38!
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:16 pm

dbirds wrote:Are Gill and his coach familiar with Carter's record? As much as he loves breaking records, you'd think he might go for it!
derby_county wrote:Yes, they know all about Carter...and Albritton

But will Gill drop down to the 5.4kg ball or move up to the 7.26kg?
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:19 pm

derby_county wrote:As I mentioned the conversion is for weight only, not as gh mentioned, other biomechanical factors.

IMO Gill is does well with light balls and he would throw well with the 12 lb ball. He has loads of quickness/ speed and does not horse the ball out there will massive strength levels.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby derby_county » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:25 pm

bushop wrote:But will Gill drop down to the 5.4kg ball or move up to the 7.26kg?


I doubt he will bother much with lighter weights from now on. He needs to get used to the senior weight to do well at the Commonwealth Games next year. He's lost most of this year so far with the injuries, I suppose if he hadn't been injured he might have tried the 12 at some point but probably too late now.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Tuariki » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:32 pm

My guess is that Jacko's primary focus for the rest of this year, through to 19 December, will be to target 21.00m with the 7.26kg.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Marlow » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:56 pm

derby_county wrote:He's lost most of this year so far with the injuries

From what I've read about his training, that's going to be a recurring motif. Let's hope an older Jacko learns some patience. It's great to be gung-ho for training, but at some point every body rejects the 'abuse'.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Putters 2013

Postby bushop » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:52 pm

<Throwholics | discussion group>
Brian Oldfield via Throwholics Facebook wrote:Brian Oldfield Aug 20
Jacko has already equaled 21m with the Olympic shot. It converts to 3 to 3.5 feet a pound for spinners over 22/23m.
Brian Oldfield via Throwholics Facebook wrote:Brian Oldfield Aug 20
I was at a similar spot in my development and the shot started to make adjustments back to more of a catapult /pulling action instead of pushing it from an incline press position, it will come from a behind the neck press position. My dad always said "Fill the back of the shovel & the front will take care of it self".
Jean-François Poirier via Throwholics Facebook wrote:Jean-François Poirier Aug 20
Last year on September 20, an interesting competition in Warszawa, Poland, where shot putters threw the 8, 7, 6 and 5 kg shots.

The results:
1. Armstrong (20.03 - 21.23 - 23.26 - 24.15)
2. Majewski (19.75 - 20.86 - 23.15 - 24.88)
3. Cantwell (20.27 - 21.42 - 22.71 - 22.81)

The difference between the 6 kg and the 7 kg throws varied between 1.29 m for Cantwell and 2.29 m. for Majewski, for an average of 1.87 m (6 foot 1 1/2 inch).

The distance differential between the 6 kg and the 7 kg (7.257 kg) is close to 2 m. or about 6 foot 6 inches.

With 23 m. with a 6kg shot, Jacko Gill can probably now throw 21 m. + with the 7.257 kg... That will make for good competition at next Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, Scotland, against Canadian Dylan Armstrong for the gold medal!!! Till next July of 2014, Jacko Gill will have time to improve of course... 21.50 - 22.00 m. ??? Who knows!!??
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby TeWaio » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:38 am

Video of the WJR throw from Jacko's Youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... d5vdmy98L0
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Re: Junior Male Shot Putters 2013

Postby derby_county » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:09 pm

bushop wrote:<Throwholics | discussion group>

With 23 m. with a 6kg shot, Jacko Gill can probably now throw 21 m. + with the 7.257 kg... That will make for good competition at next Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, Scotland, against Canadian Dylan Armstrong for the gold medal!!! Till next July of 2014, Jacko Gill will have time to improve of course... 21.50 - 22.00 m. ??? Who knows!!??


This is getting carried away and while I expect Jacko has plenty of expectations of himself this is a bit ridiculous. I hope Jacko gets past 20.65 before his 19th birthday (and hope to be there) and I think that is a reasonable expectation. He may even get past 21.05 this year but that might depend on how many competitions he can get in, with injuries and weather permitting (unlike last year). But 21.50 is pushing it a bit far, even by July 2014, and besides he might not need to throw that far to win as the Games record is only 21.02 by Armstrong in 2010. It will probably depend on which Canadians are there and how fit they are.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Putters 2013

Postby bushop » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:03 pm

derby_county wrote:It will probably depend on which Canadians are there and how fit they are.

So true. Canada had three from Bondarchuk's camp hit the "A" but on,y one in the final-12.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby leoesharkey » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:53 am

One country out of two hundred and twenty throws with a 12lb shot, I think every other country in the world is using the Metric system.

I grew up with both and always enjoyed using metric to annoy older people and imperial to annoy younger people. Sad but how chidlish as I LOL. Seriously the whole concept of beating records in the old system just doesn't register anywhere in the world.

What's the US record with the 14lb shot?

it must be in the mid fifties in feet it's been so long since anyone has thrown it competitively.

Ralph Rose, not the greatest shotputter ever, but the greatest all round thrower without doubt once owned every world record for men in the Shot with the 8lb up to the 56lb, that was back when shotputting was real fun ! Imagine turning up at a meet where there is a 8lb shot, 22lb shot and 56lb shot that would be very challenging ! :)
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby leoesharkey » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:57 am

I think Jacko will improve on his 23.00m and will throw a little farther than 20.65 m this yeas, maybe 23.20 and 20.75. He is great for the sport and the previous WJR holder will improve a lot too I think, he appears to have lost muscle but improved his technique a lot. When Storl is fully recovered from injuries I think we will see big meet throws from him! :D
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby derby_county » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:00 pm

As I expected Jacko is no longer concerned with the junior weights and will be focusing on the senior shot from now on. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-spor ... to-step-up
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Tuariki » Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:48 am

While I understand that Jacko's training will now focus solely on the 7.26kg I will not be surprised to see him competing in the last 2 weeks before his 19th birthday with both the 7.26kg and the 6kg.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:05 am

Tuariki wrote:While I understand that Jacko's training will now focus solely on the 7.26kg I will not be surprised to see him competing in the last 2 weeks before his 19th birthday with both the 7.26kg and the 6kg.

But what about the 12 pound ball?
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Tuariki » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:07 am

bushop wrote:
Tuariki wrote:While I understand that Jacko's training will now focus solely on the 7.26kg I will not be surprised to see him competing in the last 2 weeks before his 19th birthday with both the 7.26kg and the 6kg.

But what about the 12 pound ball?

Who knows? I am sure Jacko would love to throw past 24.77 with that weight but given it is specifically a US High School "thing" and not an age group record may make any attempt irrelevant.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Marlow » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:19 pm

Tuariki wrote:it is specifically a US High School "thing" and not an age group record may make any attempt irrelevant.

Out-throwing Carter at the same age irrelevant? I think not.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:47 pm

Marlow wrote:
Tuariki wrote:it is specifically a US High School "thing" and not an age group record may make any attempt irrelevant.
Out-throwing Carter at the same age irrelevant? I think not.

Carter's 24.78m (81' 3½") with the 5.44kg ball is the U18 5kg record.
While it originates as a US High School "thing" it is also one of the, if not the, best U20 putting of the shot ever.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:27 pm

It is also my impression that when they do the multiple weight competitions, the pros have a hard time coming close to Carter's mark with the lighter balls; can someone with more background/data comment?
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby MDelano » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:08 pm

I have this example from on old magazine in the 80s:
Edward Sarul (World champion 1983) training Shot PRs:
4kg: 29.03m
5kg: 25.58m
6kg: 23.44m
7.26kg: 22.03m
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Tuariki » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:15 pm

bushop wrote:
Marlow wrote:
Tuariki wrote:it is specifically a US High School "thing" and not an age group record may make any attempt irrelevant.
Out-throwing Carter at the same age irrelevant? I think not.

Carter's 24.78m (81' 3½") with the 5.44kg ball is the U18 5kg record.
While it originates as a US High School "thing" it is also one of the, if not the, best U20 putting of the shot ever.

Carter was 18 years 230 days when he threw his 24.77m with the 5.44kg - so it is not the USA under 18 record for the 5kg. That record is held by Ryan Crouser at 21.56.

Carter's 24.77 at 18y 228d was an incredible performance. However, IMO, Jacko's 24.45m with the 5kg at the age of 16y-364d is the better performance.

The lack of relevance is because no country in the world throws the 5.44kg except the USA. Presumably that means it is extremely difficult to even get a hold of a 5.44kg shot.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby rainy.here » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:21 pm

Tuariki wrote:
The lack of relevance is because no country in the world throws the 5.44kg except the USA. Presumably that means it is extremely difficult to even get a hold of a 5.44kg shot.


Canadian high school boys throw the 12lb also.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Tuariki » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:26 pm

rainy.here wrote:
Tuariki wrote:
The lack of relevance is because no country in the world throws the 5.44kg except the USA. Presumably that means it is extremely difficult to even get a hold of a 5.44kg shot.


Canadian high school boys throw the 12lb also.

Canada needs to break the apron strings and join the rest of the world :lol:
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby user4 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:08 am

Tuariki wrote:
rainy.here wrote:
Tuariki wrote:
The lack of relevance is because no country in the world throws the 5.44kg except the USA. Presumably that means it is extremely difficult to even get a hold of a 5.44kg shot.


Canadian high school boys throw the 12lb also.

Canada needs to break the apron strings and join the rest of the world :lol:


I didnt know that the Queen with her strings sanctioned the 12lber.
Last edited by user4 on Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:29 am

Tuariki wrote:Canada needs to break the apron strings and join the rest of the world :lol:

I wish the US wold go to the 5kg and 6kg balls, and the 1.5kg and 1.75kg discus for the boys... and 3kg shot put for the U17 girls.
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