Junior Shot Put '13

[bushop]

World Juniors
Men's Shot Put • qualifying results

[bushop]

Jacko Gill opens with a CR 21.75m (71' 4")
Kangas goes 19.52m (64' 0")
Damo goes 20.44m (67' 0")
Pezer fouls
Brzozowski glides huge... 21.78m (71' 5")

[Vault-emort]

A great comp to watch!

[bushop]

Jacko Gill responds to Brzo with a CR 22.19m (72' 10")
Kangas improves to 19.69m (64' 7")
Damo improves to 20.60m (67' 7")
Pezer goes 18.80m (61' 8")
Brzozowski fouls

[shotputter]

If Jacko doesn't break the world record today, the trip to Barcelona was worthless in comparison to going to Olympics. He can win this competition in his sleep, despite Brzozowski coming in strong. He should have played by the (stupid) rules, make the A standard, come to Barcelona, win, and then go to London.

[bushop]

Jacko Gill opens the 3rd round with a 22.15m (72' 8")
Jun Li spins to 4th place with a 19.72m (64' 8")
Kangas fouls
Damo PBs again with a 21.03m (69' 0")
Pezer goes through to the final in 4th with a 19.83m (65' 1")
Brzozowski fouls

[bushop]

Kangas fouls
Jun Li fouls
Pezer fouls
Damo goes 20.83m (68' 4")
Brzozowski goes 20.88m (68' 9")
Gill ends the 4th round with a 21.84m (71' 8")
... and they're showing a medal ceremony... ug.

[bushop]

5th round:
Kangas moves ahead of Li by 1cm with a 19.73m (64' 8")
Jun Li goes 19.38m (63' 7")
Pezer goes 18.81m (61' 8")
Damo keeps his great meet rolling at 21.16m (69' 5")
Brzozowski goes 21.37m (70' 1")
Gill sets another CR at 22.20m (72' 10")

[bushop]

final round:
Kangas moves ahead of Pezer by 2cm with a 19.85m (65' 1")
Jun Li goes 19.46m (63' 10")
Pezer fouls
Damo goes 20.40m (66' 11")
Brzozowski fouls
Gill finishes the day with 22.02m (72' 3")

[shotputter]

he's generating excitement in one of the most boring events.

By doing what? Releasing videos on youtube? There was nothing exciting today in Barcelona. Everyone knew he was going to win, the record they talked about for the past year didn't get broken, and it is now clear that his decisions about London were all poor choices.

It's obvious that he didn't need to focus on Barcelona in order to win, he could have trained for the senior shot and still win today. So that talk about how they needed to be sure that Jacko will be part of the team months before so that he would know what to train for, goes down the drain. It's just that he wanted to be treated differently and when they treated him like everyone else, he got pissed off. So, shutting the Athletics NZ up did nothing for him.

Jacko in London, now that would be super exciting, even if he doesn't place well, he would still be a 17-year old shot put Olympian. That's huge. But he wasted that opportunity.

So, for me, he didn't make it fun. I'm actually disappointed. He should compete more. With seniors, as he reached that level by going over 20m. That's exciting, that's something to look forward to. Dominating juniors for two more years is like letting Usain Bolt compete with high school kids. Break the JR world record, get done with it. Move on to what matters.

Also, shot put is not a boring event. At the moment, it has one of the strongest fields and it will be an event to watch in London.

his training and methods are awesome.

Are you actually serious? That training works for him because he's exceptionally gifted. In any other application, it would produce injuries, overtraining, and poor results. Go ahead, try it. It has no structure, it's random and some parts of his training are dangerous.

[Tuariki]

I have to agree with shotputter.

First though, thanks to Bushop that I was able to follow the shot competition as it progressed rather than wait for the IAAF site update.

Human nature is a funny old beast. Here I am sitting in Auckland feeling gutted because all Jacko did was to win the Gold, with all 7 of his throws exceeding the incoming World Championship record of 21.47. Having watched Jacko throw non-foul warm ups at the NZ Nationals earlier this year his 22.20m was a major disappointment and surprise. And I am sure Jacko is probably gutted as well. I imagine the pressure of the 23m expectation possibly got the better of him.

And it was certainly a wasted opportunity that Jacko withdrew himself from Olympic selection.

At the Olympics there would be very little expectation of him in terms of placing well. And with that lack of pressure I believe he would have had a good chance of reaching 21m. His warm up throws in December were evidence of his ability to reach 21.

[shotputter]

I'll now have two weeks holiday in Sweden then go home and get training in earnest again, starting out with circuit training, before starting competing again around October time.

http://iaaf.org/Mini/WJC12/News/NewsDet ... x?id=65760

Another delay. We won't see him much this year. He will probably produce a good result in October/November and then we won't hear about him for another four to five months. His career is no longer interesting to me until he starts competing more often.

[AS]

Gill's success at such a young age in this event is rare (hence our excitement). We all salivate at the prospect of what he might become in the coming 5-10 years. We know that this will take a lot of training and hard work.

It's not clear to me that competing at great frequency in the coming year or two will help much, however.

As such, isn't he doing the right thing by staying down in NZ, competing when he feels like it (especially in an event which benefits less from having competitors around you), and training??

As it is, competing as a 'freakshow' in a couple of Diamond Leagues isn't exactly going to help the brand...as he'll just be an also-ran/threw. "17 year old finishes within 5 ft of Olympic champ" is a vaguely interesting headline once...

[shotputter]

As such, isn't he doing the right thing by staying down in NZ, competing when he feels like it (especially in an event which benefits less from having competitors around you), and training??

He should at least be taking part in local meets. It's not that I don't agree with you, it's just he teased us with those results with the senior shot and now we don't get to see it again. He will be a great senior, but to see what he can do at this age is what is exciting right now.

Physically, he is already at the senior level. That's why it's not interesting to me to see him compete only a few times during the year, at junior level.

[bushop]

.... but to see what he can do at this age is what is exciting right now.

Maybe exciting for us–but maybe not what Gill needs to reach his potential.

[rainy.here]

Jacko in London, now that would be super exciting, even if he doesn't place well, he would still be a 17-year old shot put Olympian. That's huge. But he wasted that opportunity.

So, for me, he didn't make it fun. I'm actually disappointed. He should compete more. With seniors, as he reached that level by going over 20m. That's exciting, that's something to look forward to. Dominating juniors for two more years is like letting Usain Bolt compete with high school kids. Break the JR world record, get done with it. Move on to what matters.

I disagree. Jack in London would be kinda boring. There are a lot of good throwers out there and he might not make it through the prelims. 20m is exceptional for his age, but not that good in London. He's young, and hopefully has a long career ahead. If he's truly ready to throw with the big boys, he can do that at next year's world champs. Don't discount the value of winning a world junior title just because of his amazing potential.

[gibson]

great win for gill under great pressure. sure he was looking for a bit better. but.,,

have you ever been in this situation yourself?, at any level, picked to win hands down a long time in advance? if you haven't then you won't understand that it's a really great win.

regarding selection.

of course a run away junior champion of the world has no business being named to an olympic games squad that is more or less void of talent.

of course a super protegee would not benefit from seasoning 4 years later.

of course you don't send a world raked thrower at age 16 who in all likelihood is expected to get much better.

of course an athlete the gets a B standard at age 16 is not likely to achieve an A+ at 17.

of course you can't treat a super protegee any different than the others, a 35 year old shot putter with 20.3 should be treated exactly the same way.

of course NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS A JUNIOR ATHLETE OF THIS CALIBER NOT GOING TO THE GAMES.

of course you need to wait until the last minute to figure out if gill should be on the team.

things like this are why, of course most federations suck c*ck

come on, pick up the phone and call NZ athletics and give them a piece of your mind.

[bushop]

things like this are why, of course most federations suck c*ck

come on, pick up the phone and call NZ athletics and give them a piece of your mind.

Those calls should go to the Gills. They decided to "withdrawal from consideration" for London.

[Tuariki]

Another delay. We won't see him much this year. He will probably produce a good result in October/November and then we won't hear about him for another four to five months. His career is no longer interesting to me until he starts competing more often.

He should at least be taking part in local meets. It's not that I don't agree with you, it's just he teased us with those results with the senior shot and now we don't get to see it again. He will be a great senior, but to see what he can do at this age is what is exciting right now.

Physically, he is already at the senior level. That's why it's not interesting to me to see him compete only a few times during the year, at junior level.

And this time shotputter I have to disagree with you.

Jacko doesn't throw for your pleasure, or mine, or any of us crazies who follow his performances on this forum. If he wants to just throw with the 6kg for the next 18 months then that is his right and his decision. Of course we would all be disappointed because that is not what we want. But what we want is irrelevant. What is relevant is what Jacko wants. Its his life, his career; not ours.

However, in saying that, I am also confident Jacko will give us what we crazies want. Maybe not in terms of the numbers of competitions that shotputter is hoping to see. But I believe that while Jacko wants to erase Storl's 22.73 I believe his ultimate junior targets are the records of Michael Carter. So, I am looking forward to Jacko going 24.80m which I believe is the ultimate record (but with the 6kg). I have already watched Jacko throw a non-foul warm up past Carter's 20.65m

[mump boy]

Jacko Gill is a fine young man.
his training and methods are awesome.
he's generating excitement in one of the most boring events.
he's making it fun and becoming an all round athlete.
which will allow him to tackle the discus or even the decathlon in the future.

athletics new zealand and many of the good intended posters just get in the way of progress.
inadvertently, they'd to kill the goose that is laying the golden egg, except that gill won't have it and tells them to f***off.

good for gill to shut them out.

at the end of the day. i'd like to see gill box key selectors from athletics NZ and show them what's up.

if gill gets the chance he most definitely should talk to mr. mac wilkins about how to deal with federation crap and such. plus he could learn from THE master.
http://macwilkins.com/

How cutting off your nose to spite your face is shutting THEM up, i'll never know. He would be flying straight to London now if he hadn't thrown a diva strop

[Powell]

Since Brzozowski's 21.78 got hardly any attention here, I guess I need to comment on how impressed I am by him. He's now no. 4 on the all-time 6k junior list. And once more he got a big PB when it mattered most - in terms of peaking for major events, his career record up to now must be one of the best of all time:
2009 WYC silver PB by 57 cm
2010 EYO gold PB by 31 cm
2010 WYO gold PB by 123 cm !
2011 EJC gold PB by 11 cm
2012 WJC silver PB by 64 cm

[gibson]

ok, one last "shot" at why Gill did the right thing dissin athletics NZ
warning DIATRIBE SUPREME ALERT

aren't sports meant to cultivate bravery, mental and physical strength, to overcome the odds, become a decent person?
those involved in track and field are generally making a mockery of the aim and morality in sport.
Pre, Mac Foster made some waves and now we have Gill. Those are my kind of guys, we just need more of them.

if athletes pull their support from bad, useless, inept federations in mass then those federations could/would lose massive credibility.

for example, say federer, djokovic, nadal are pissed, say if they were playing wimbledon for free - living at a lousy olympic villiage with two star ratings - at best, having TV coverage switch to beach volleyball DURING the final.
and say they pull out of wimbledon, what do you think will happen to the organizers of that event? what kind of ratings would wimbledon get? organizers and that unfair process would be gonzo. what is absolutely ridiculous for tennis is acceptable or tolerated by track.

now say bolt, rudisha, eaton, merrit and say 10 other guys pull out of the games in protest at the last minute, what's going to happen to the credibility of the event? it would be a big blow.

what would happen to credibility of the entire olympic games if OG track was no longer a legitimate world championship???? that is huge possible leverage.

similarly, in the case of new zealand, the star athletes can form their own club and dictate to athletics new zealand by pulling out of domestic or even international events.....
get it? the athletes form their own club and dictate to federations what they will and will not do.

a few people you see can rewrite the rule book for these global competitions and axe the bloated organizations that have raped the athletes for so long.

instead you have stuff like this going on for ever (see link below) and no one has taken a real stand.
certainly on this board you can easily identify the people that would not step up to the plate and DO SOMETHING.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/sports/su ... ng-partner
note the fine athletic double chins on these individuals.

[shotputter]

Jacko doesn't throw for your pleasure, or mine, or any of us crazies who follow his performances on this forum.

You're right, I didn't look at things from his perspective, only as a fan that wants to see MORE MORE MORE. Patience is a virtue, and I lack that virtue. My bad.

However, in saying that, I am also confident Jacko will give us what we crazies want. Maybe not in terms of the numbers of competitions that shotputter is hoping to see.

Just to be clear, I wasn't expecting that he competes as much as let's say Dylan Armstrong, but I was hoping to see him throw the senior shot at least once this summer. But I will learn to be patient, good things are coming from him in the next year or two.

Since Brzozowski's 21.78 got hardly any attention here, I guess I need to comment on how impressed I am by him.

Absolutely. He also had a PB with the 7.26 in May, and it's safe to say that he will break the 20m soon, now that he's switching his focus to seniors. This is his last year as a junior if I'm not mistaken.

[bushop]

for example, say federer, djokovic, nadal are pissed, say if they were playing wimbledon for free - living at a lousy olympic villiage with two star ratings - at best, having TV coverage switch to beach volleyball DURING the final.
and say they pull out of wimbledon, what do you think will happen to the organizers of that event? what kind of ratings would wimbledon get? organizers and that unfair process would be gonzo. what is absolutely ridiculous for tennis is acceptable or tolerated by track.

How does this relate to Gill's situation?

Pre, Mac, Foster made some waves and now we have Gill. Those are my kind of guys, we just need more of them....

...if athletes pull their support from bad, useless, inept federations in mass then those federations could/would lose massive credibility.

similarly, in the case of new zealand, the star athletes can form their own club and dictate to athletics new zealand by pulling out of domestic or even international events.....
get it? the athletes form their own club and dictate to federations what they will and will not do.

See International Track Association (ITA). I can't seem to find any useful information about it... anyone else find some to share?

[Tuariki]

See International Track Association (ITA). I can't seem to find any useful information about it... anyone else find some to share?

Like what sort of information. I competed for the ITA for 3 years in the 70's

I also know first hand what a bunch of dorks (or is "berk" the going word these days) the NZ Athletic bosses have traditionally been, having personally had to suffer the arrogance and control-freak personality of NZ's version of Avery Brundage, Ces Blazey.

[26mi235]

His drive and motivation seem at the extremely high end of the distribution. His common sense seems to be somewhere below average and he does not seem to be helped in that regard by those around him.

[mal]

His drive and motivation seem at the extremely high end of the distribution. His common sense seems to be somewhere below average and he does not seem to be helped in that regard by those around him.

He's a kid for chrissse sakes.

He feels left out by the NZ organization. He was not encouraged the way he felt he should have been.
He threw the toys from the pram, he took his ball and went home. He's a kid. He isn't there to make the adults happy. He doesn't even know that he was irritating you.

Soon as you publish your manifesto, telling me what you have achieved starting from the age of 10, I'll support you in your criticism. I'm sure his advice was that he wouldn't win London, therefore make your point. And hopefully move on.

Tell me where you ranked in the world at 17, and the choices you had to make about the Olympics, and focus on the mature responses you made to the press. He's a very talented kid. Leave him alone and let him develop in ways that you, and straightliners like shotputter, could never guide him.

[bushop]

See International Track Association (ITA). I can't seem to find any useful information about it... anyone else find some to share?

Like what sort of information. I competed for the ITA for 3 years in the 70's

I also know first hand what a bunch of dorks... the NZ Athletic bosses have traditionally been, having personally had to suffer the arrogance and control-freak personality of NZ's version of Avery Brundage, Ces Blazey.

It was suggested by gibson that the ITA model would work... were the track & field athletes able to wrest control of the sport from the federations by starting their own organization?

Seems like a facetious question... I think I know the answer but I would be speaking from ignorance.

[Tuariki]

See International Track Association (ITA). I can't seem to find any useful information about it... anyone else find some to share?

Like what sort of information. I competed for the ITA for 3 years in the 70's

I also know first hand what a bunch of dorks... the NZ Athletic bosses have traditionally been, having personally had to suffer the arrogance and control-freak personality of NZ's version of Avery Brundage, Ces Blazey.

It was suggested by gibson that the ITA model would work... were the track & field athletes able to wrest control of the sport from the federations by starting their own organization?

Seems like a facetious question... I think I know the answer but I would be speaking from ignorance.

If that is what Gibson thinks he obviously doesn't know what he is talking about. ITA was controlled and owned by Mike O'Hara. The athletes had no real say. Sure we got paid but not a lot; not even Brian and Ben Jipcho who were the biggest stars. ITA was always doomed to failure because it needed to refresh itself each year with new stars. And that just didn't happen. Great experience and great fun though.

[Athleticsimaging]

While Gill has achieved great things for his age I always remember an interview with Isaac Stern (fingers crossed I'm right) where he was asked about some young talent de jour. He seemed irritated about the interviewer's gushing remarks about the young talent being "fabulous for his age" and replied that "It's got nothing to do with being good for your age - it's only ever about being good."

I always follow this sensible advice in sport, so Gill's PB, while good for his age, is not as good overall and I won't miss him in London. He may either prove himself in time or injure himself so badly that he has to take up recreational walking or something in between. I will get excited if/when he ever proves himself good on the world stage, just like every other athlete.

PS: NZ Athletics still sound completely fucking befuddled all the same.

[Athleticsimaging]

ITA was always doomed to failure because it needed to refresh itself each year with new stars. And that just didn't happen.

Exactly right, Tauriki. This is why the alphabets will always beat the athletes because athletes can't endure for the 20 years needed to make a difference and the up and comers will always take what's on offer from the alphabets until they learn the same painful lesson. But that will be long enough to have fucked over the first wave and if they then, in turn, try something similar, they will themselves be fucked over by the next new wave.

Athletes are just DUPs and will always be expected to just bend over...

[mump boy]

I'm still confused as to what NZ authorities have done wrong in this situation. Are people suggesting that they should have bent the rules for one individual ego ? it is my understanding that he could have easily been on the team for London if he's waited for the 2nd round of selection, like everyone else who didn't automatically qualify ?

[bushop]

Are people suggesting that they should have bent the rules for one individual ego ?

Yes... many people, including the Gill family, think Jacko should've received a roster spot months ago based on his "B" Standard throw.

It is my understanding that he could have easily been on the team for London if he's waited for the 2nd round of selection, like everyone else who didn't automatically qualify ?

Spot on.

[Tuariki]

I'm still confused as to what NZ authorities have done wrong in this situation. Are people suggesting that they should have bent the rules for one individual ego ? it is my understanding that he could have easily been on the team for London if he's waited for the 2nd round of selection, like everyone else who didn't automatically qualify ?

Jacko beat the B standard with his 20.01 but was told he needed to beat the NZ standard of 20.30. Note that the A standard is 20.50. He beat the NZ standard with his 20.38.

He was never told that the first selections would be restricted to only those who had met the A standard. That was not part of the selection criteria. But NZ athletics wanted to announce some of the athletes before the NZ qualifying period had closed. They didn't select Gill in the first announcement because they decided they needed to be fair to Tom Walsh in case he met the standard as well.

Gill having been told he would be selected if he threw the NZ standard of 20.38 was understandably miffed when not in the first batch selected. He would have been selected when the final bunch were selected. However he had unfortunately already "taken his ball home".

Very sad for us TnF forum crazies. Very sad for a young man who I am sure will regret on having missed out on such a magnificent opportunity. He almost certainly had no show of making the podium but he definitely had the potential to get to 21.00 and/or to make the final 8.

[Rye Catcher]

I thought Gill was a spinner, but in the NZ paper he said this about his performance at the Juniors:

"The circle tonight seemed a bit slippery and some of the rotational throwers had some problems but I use the standard glide so that wasn't as much of an issue for me."

So what cooks?