Junior Shot Put '13 [Bukowiecki 22.24 WYBi]


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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby mump boy » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:01 am

Powell wrote:
mump boy wrote:Why should a National Federation have to bow down to the whims of a teenager and his parents ??

He has been treated exactly the same as everyone else in his position yet somehow managed to spin the whole story so it's about how hard done by he is :roll:


Exactly.

The feeling I get from all these stories is that, as huge as Gill's talent is, his ego is about 5 times as big.


exactly and on that note i'm going to stop talking about him
Last edited by mump boy on Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Tuariki » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:16 pm

mump boy wrote:
Powell wrote:
mump boy wrote:Why should a National Federation have to bow down to the whims of a teenager and his parents ??

He has been treated exactly the same as everyone else in his position yet somehow managed to spin the whole story so it's about how hard done by he is :roll:


Exactly.

The feeling I get from all these stories is that, as huge as Gill's talent is, his ego is about 5 times as big.


exactly and on that note i'm going to stop tailing about him


What ego are you guys talking about? Except your own!!

Let's be clear all of the stories and talking and the rest of the blah blah blah's have been generated by the likes of all of us ancient retired TnF nutters.

Jacko has not made any public criticsms against Athletics NZ. Those criticisms have come from the likes of people like me, media reporters, former prominent NZ athletes etc. This storm in a tea cup (made into a tea pot by those of us who enjoy posting our rants on this TnF bloggers forum) was prompted by Athletics NZ failure to establish clear selection criteria for NZ; and their subsequent failure to convery those selection criteria prior to announcing the first batch of athletes.

Jacko merely stated, through his Dad, that he had decided to forgo the opportunity to compete in London. His Dad explained that his son was disillusioned with Atheltics NZ. And why wouldn't he be.
- Athletics NZ passes a rule that bans him from competing in the NZ senior nationals
- Athletics NZ announces his B standard thrown is not good enough - he must throw 20.30m
- He throws 20.30m
- 3 months later Athletics NZ announces it is not good to be selected in the first batch

I have nothing against the criteria Athletics NZ have finally decided on. The criteria are logical given the IAAF A and B standards that have to be complied with. If Athletics NZ had made their selection criteria clear a year ago we wouldn't have had the problem we now have.

Mump Boy and Powell think Jacko is too big for his boots with an over blown ego. Powell thinks Jacko has no right to be upset over the age restriction for the NZ nationals senior division because Athletics NZ said they would give him an excemption if he applied.

Why should NZ's national record holder for the senior shot, ranked 2nd in all of the Commonwealth and 30th in all of the world have to go cap in hand to ask for an exemption?

This is not an IAAF rule - it is something a bunch of dorks in NZ Athletics Admin dreamed up all by themselves. I can just see the Ethiopian Athletics Admin asking Athletics NZ for permission to plagiarize this brilliant piece of adminstrative jurisprdence so that they can impose similar restrictions on Mohammed Aman.

Athletics NZ officials say they did this at the request of the clubs in order to protect the athletes. Protect them from what? The demi-Gods of Athletics NZ sitting atop Mt Cook (Mt Aorangi for the politically correct) say that "You can compete all year long in the senior shot all through NZ, any where overseas, in the Olympics even; but my God you are at such grave risk to your health,to your future, if after all of that we allow you to compete in the NZ senior nationals. Be thankful young man that we have done this geat thing - just to protect you from your own brilliance".

And then these great visionaries, looking down on the populace from their thrones atop Mt Cook, admiring their legislative handiwork, notice that the great unwashed public think these self appointed demi-Gods are a compete bunch of idiots for passing such legislative wisdom. "Ah but wait", they tell us "There is more - we didn't really mean that this rule should apply to Jacko Gill. If he climbs up Mt Cook to the base of our godly thrones and begs us to grant him an exemption, we will probably in our collective wisdom grant him that exemption. After all we demi-Gods want to be loved by our worshippers and it appears our worshippers are having unloving thoughts about us at the moment."

And of course none of the clubs are sticking up their hands admitting to their roles in demanding this masterpiece of athletics legislation.

And of course, I also wish they had had this rule in place in 1969 when I first competed in the NZ national seniors as a 17 year old. Because I am sure I must have suffered somehow since then because of I was not protected from those dangers. The main danger being that I got my arse kicked by Dave Norris and Bob Thomas (both 26 foot long jumpers back then off grass).

And finally, Jacko says very little to the media directly (and I am not counting social media where he appears to be like all other teeen agers who seem to spill their guts on their every topic imaginable). When he has spoken to the media Jacko has always been polite and gracious.

Is he disullusioned? clearly

Is he right to be disillusioned- in my opinion it is very yes.

is he allowed to decide to forgo the Olympics- yes,of course he is.

And does this mean we who have nothing better to do can write pages and pages of comments - yes.

And what other 16/17 year old who has never been to a world senior champs or Olympics ever generated so much coverage, so much interest.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby mal » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:59 pm

mump boy wrote:
Powell wrote:
mump boy wrote:Why should a National Federation have to bow down to the whims of a teenager and his parents ??

He has been treated exactly the same as everyone else in his position yet somehow managed to spin the whole story so it's about how hard done by he is :roll:


Exactly.

The feeling I get from all these stories is that, as huge as Gill's talent is, his ego is about 5 times as big.


exactly and on that note i'm going to stop tailing about him



Thank God.

I'd had enough of your tripe.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Dave » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:27 pm

Quick question, are there other junior men throwing the shot this year or is Gill it?
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby leoesharkey » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:11 pm

Good point, I wish Jacko well, and Tom Walsh well who has spoken well about jacko and the athletics people and seems a good bloke. Other Juniors, what about Kristoff in Poland and mr Brahems who has done 70 feet so far?
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Rye Catcher » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:49 pm

No more tripe from Mump.............I like it.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby El Toro » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:18 pm

Tauriki and mal, you cranky old buggers, it's a kinder, gentler world nowadays! :lol:

Just think about how good another precocious youngster could have been if only Athletics NZ had been there to protect him achieving too much too soon.......

In 340, when Philip II assembled a large Macedonian army and invaded Thrace, he left his 16 years old son with the power to rule Macedonia as regent in his absence.
The Thracian tribe of Maedi seized the opportunity to rebel, only for Alexander to assemble an army, lead it against the rebels, and with swift action defeat the Maedi, capture their stronghold, and rename it after himself to Alexandropolis. [wanna talk about real ego? :wink: ]

Two years later in 338 BC, Philip gave his son a commanding post among the senior generals as the Macedonian army invaded Greece. At the Battle of Chaeronea the Greeks were defeated and Alexander displayed his bravery by destroying the elite Greek force, the Theban Secret Band. Some ancient historians recorded that the Macedonians won the battle thanks to his bravery.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Rye Catcher » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:12 am

Pig out on Jacko Gill articles from the original source.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/jacko20gill/s ... w2=&st=gsa
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Tuariki » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:04 pm

Kansas teen DQ’ed for running with tape over earrings; if uncovered would have been warned

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschoo ... 53602.html

On April 10, Miranda Clark was getting ready to line up for the start of the 1,600-meter race at the Ellsworth Invitational. The Russell (Kan.) High student was ready to roll when she noticed that she had earrings in, a result of a recent ear piercing. Knowing that wearing jewelry in a race is forbidden in sporting events by the Kansas State High School Activities Association, Clark knew she couldn't run with her earrings showing, so she did what most athletes do to make jewelry less conspicuous: She covered them up with tape.

As it turns out, that decision was the worst she could have made. As soon as Clark finished the event, a track official, Jim Cross, approached her and asked what was under her tape. When she admitted that the tape was covering an earring, Cross promptly judged that she was exhibiting "unsportsmanlike conduct," a ruling that disqualified the Russell (Kan.) High runner from the entire meet; Clark was scheduled to run the 3,200 meters later in the afternoon.


Is it possible that Jim Cross attended the Athletics NZ Graduate School of rules interpretation?
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Tuariki » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:49 pm

And from "TODAY'S TOP HEADLINES"

Best Men’s Non-Qualifying Marks
SP -20.06 - 65-9¾ - Marco Schmidt (Germany) - WC 11


Although Jim Rorick's stats are for the best 13th place getters it would appear that in every WC and Olympics Jacko's 20.38m would have always gotten him through the qualifying round and into the top 12.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Daisy » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:23 pm

Tuariki wrote:Why should NZ's national record holder for the senior shot, ranked 2nd in all of the Commonwealth and 30th in all of the world have to go cap in hand to ask for an exemption?

This is not an IAAF rule - it is something a bunch of dorks in NZ Athletics Admin dreamed up all by themselves.

I bet these guys still rue the day when the rugby union players were allowed to earn a pay check. :roll:
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:43 pm

Tuariki wrote:And from "TODAY'S TOP HEADLINES"

Best Men’s Non-Qualifying Marks
SP -20.06 - 65-9¾ - Marco Schmidt (Germany) - WC 11


Although Jim Rorick's stats are for the best 13th place getters it would appear that in every WC and Olympics Jacko's 20.38m would have always gotten him through the qualifying round and into the top 12.


Having a PR at that level and throwing it in three attempts in the Q round are two different things.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Tuariki » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:59 pm

The criteria for the NZ Olympic Selectors (as opposed to Athletics NZ) is that it there is a well founded expectation that an athlete will make the top 16.

NZ Olympic Committee selection policy wrote:s2.5 - The overriding selection criteria determined by the NZOC is that we will select individual athletes who, through World Rankings and credible top level international competition performances, have demonstrated the ability to finish within the top 16 at the 2012 London Olympic Games, with the potential to win an Olympic Diploma (top 8).


26mi235 wrote:
Having a PR at that level and throwing it in three attempts in the Q round are two different things.


While I agree with this sentiment the standard is that he demonstrate an ability to finish within the top 16 with the potential to finish in the top 8. Jacko has clearly done this.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby bushop » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:29 pm

Dave wrote:Quick question, are there other junior men throwing the shot this year or is Gill it?
Not too much yet. The IAAF has not posted junior lists.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby norunner » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:59 am

Tuariki wrote:The criteria for the NZ Olympic Selectors (as opposed to Athletics NZ) is that it there is a well founded expectation that an athlete will make the top 16.

NZ Olympic Committee selection policy wrote:s2.5 - The overriding selection criteria determined by the NZOC is that we will select individual athletes who, through World Rankings and credible top level international competition performances, have demonstrated the ability to finish within the top 16 at the 2012 London Olympic Games, with the potential to win an Olympic Diploma (top 8).


So which "credible top level international competitions" did he compete in?
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby leoesharkey » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:34 am

Oh God, what a terrible waffly statement, and it looks like it was written by a non-english speaker who is just starting lessons. how could any federation publish this?
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby leoesharkey » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:37 am

Sigh, that is absolutely terrible, awful, embarrassing. The criteria is...are, I can't even read beyond the first sentence without squirming. Suddenly I smell bullshit. :oops:
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby highjumpfan » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:51 am

Nick Vena 19.27 yesterday with the big ball. Go Nick go.
Does anyone know if he intends to try out for world juniors this year?
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby gibson » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:59 am

through brute force of the "pen" i will try and make an effect on athletics nz.
i know that with enough voices it will work. new zealanders need to call and talk to people personally, email them personally, and even pop into their office.

here is the latest:

Newman said he had heard Gill had been fouled at a meeting in Australia a couple of years ago but did not think there was any "conspiracy".

"We have been doing everything in our power to support Jacko - why would we do anything else?
gibson: bullshit, they did not name gill to the team. it is in their power.
athletics nz made gill lobby to participate in the senior champs, not invite him with open arms.
athletics nz did not investigate the phantom foul incidents, did not lend any support.
other interference.


Sure, we could have done a couple of things better over the qualification issue but we have already acknowledged that. If anyone is suggesting, by linking these elements together, that there is a conspiracy, that is absolute twaddle."


yes it is absolute twaddle.
bring in john walker, quax, snell and or dixon to head up athletics nz and bring in willis when he retires.

has athletics nz considered any of these people. no. why have world class when you can have mediocre. why hire champs when you have chumps. lets hire losers instead of winners.

athletics nz has done NOTHING for the sport. fire the lot.
Last edited by gibson on Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby gh » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:05 am

highjumpfan wrote:Nick Vena 19.27 yesterday with the big ball. Go Nick go.
Does anyone know if he intends to try out for world juniors this year?


He turns 20 tomorrow.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby highjumpfan » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:52 am

gh wrote:
highjumpfan wrote:Nick Vena 19.27 yesterday with the big ball. Go Nick go.
Does anyone know if he intends to try out for world juniors this year?


He turns 20 tomorrow.

The IAAF has his birth year listed as 1993. He turns 19 tomorrow.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby bushop » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:00 am

highjumpfan wrote:
gh wrote:
highjumpfan wrote:Nick Vena 19.27 yesterday with the big ball. Go Nick go. Does anyone know if he intends to try out for world juniors this year?
He turns 20 tomorrow.
The IAAF has his birth year listed as 1993. He turns 19 tomorrow.
Ryan Crouser USA (12.18.92)
5 kg (11 lb) -- 21.56m (70-09) 11.07.09
5.4 kg (12 lb) -- 23.54m (77-02) 02.18.11
6 kg (13.2 lb) -- dnc
7 kg (16 lb) -- 20.29m (66-07) 01.27.12

Nick Vena USA (04.16.93)
5 kg (11 lb) -- dnc
5.4 kg (12 lb) -- 23.12m (75-10) 06.13.11
6 kg (13.2 lb) -- 20.14m (66-01) 06.25.10
7 kg (16 lb) -- 19.27m (63-02) 04.14.12
Marlow wrote:
bushop wrote:If my numbers are correct, it seems like Marquis has won the bet. Crouser will not beat Vena since Crouser will not be there.
Curses, foiled again. He got me in a sucker bet!
Never-fail trick question (well, in 5th grade, at least)
How many animals were on the ark with Moses?
None! Noah was on the Ark!!
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby gm » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:31 pm

highjumpfan wrote:
gh wrote:
highjumpfan wrote:Nick Vena 19.27 yesterday with the big ball. Go Nick go.
Does anyone know if he intends to try out for world juniors this year?


He turns 20 tomorrow.

The IAAF has his birth year listed as 1993. He turns 19 tomorrow.


19 is correct.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby leoesharkey » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:03 am

SO, is Vena still a junior this year? and 63 feet for a junior or 19 yr old, or even just a young guy is a good opener to his outdoor season !
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Per Andersen » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:09 pm

leoesharkey wrote:SO, is Vena still a junior this year? and 63 feet for a junior or 19 yr old, or even just a young guy is a good opener to his outdoor season !

Yes, If he's born in 1993 he is a junior throughout 2012. The year he turns 20, he is no longer a junior.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby leoesharkey » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:46 pm

Potentially this young man could break the US record, he could go 64 with the big ball and maybe 72 with the 6k? I hope he focuses on it and gives Jacko a run for his money !
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby gh » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:21 pm

Vena 64-¼ (19.51) at the ACC.... now No. 7 U.S. Junior ever.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby gh » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:34 pm

also PRed to win the discus: 179-11 (54.84)
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Re: Junior Shot Put '12 [Vena 19.51m (64'¼") 16 lb]

Postby leoesharkey » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:42 am

So he certainly could go 64 LOL he has. He could go 65 and 73-74?
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Re: Junior Shot Put '12 [Vena 19.51m (64'¼") 16 lb]

Postby bushop » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:03 am

Gill peeks out from his self-imposed hermitage.

170kg (374lb) - 9 reps. 17 years old Training for World Junior Track and Field championships 2012, in Barcelona :)
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Re: Junior Shot Put '12 [Vena 19.51m (64'¼") 16 lb]

Postby Marlow » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:23 am

bushop wrote:170kg (374lb) - 9 reps. 17 years old

That about says it all. It's ridiculous.
With his speed, strength, technique, passion, dedication, etc., etc., the only thing that can stop him from getting the WR is injury. If anything, his coach should be reining him in at this stage!
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Re: Junior Shot Put '12 [Vena 19.51m (64'¼") 16 lb]

Postby Rye Catcher » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:19 am

bushop wrote:Gill peeks out from his self-imposed hermitage.

170kg (374lb) - 9 reps. 17 years old Training for World Junior Track and Field championships 2012, in Barcelona :)


With no spotter, what happens if he fails to get that last rep up? Not smart to workout alone.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Vault-emort » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:26 am

Dave wrote:Quick question, are there other junior men throwing the shot this year or is Gill it?

Aussie Damien Birkenhead (b93) is not in Gill's league but set a NJR for the 6kg shot a coupla weeks back in Melbourne (20.51m). His best with the senior shot is 18.48 and he's also not bad at the Hammer.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Put 2012 [No Olys for Gill (for now)]

Postby Marlow » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:36 am

Vault-emort wrote:
Dave wrote:Quick question, are there other junior men throwing the shot this year or is Gill it?

Aussie Damien Birkenhead (b93) is not in Gill's league but set a NJR for the 6kg shot a coupla weeks back in Melbourne (20.51m). His best with the senior shot is 18.48 and he's also not bad at the Hammer.

I realize the Q was facetious, but the other Jr 20m-ers from last year with 6kg ball are

20.92 Krzysztof Brzozowski POL
20.63 Meng Li CHN
20.10 Dennis Lewke GER
20.10 Damien Birkinhead AUS
[from IAAF.org]
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Re: Junior Shot Put '12

Postby bushop » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:08 am

If I may... an interesting video, well worth the watch... all the way to the end.

World Juniors Training video - Jacko Gill
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Re: Junior Shot Put '12

Postby preston » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:44 am

bushop wrote:If I may... an interesting video, well worth the watch... all the way to the end.

World Juniors Training video - Jacko Gill

At the end it says a PB...today? Did they measure? Anyway, I guess my real question is: when are they going to move Jacko up to the 800m?
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Re: Junior Shot Put '12

Postby shotputter » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:52 am

Someone should tell Jacko that the World junior boxing championship is not until October.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '12

Postby jeremyp » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:52 pm

bushop wrote:If I may... an interesting video, well worth the watch... all the way to the end.

World Juniors Training video - Jacko Gill


It's the stair hopping that shows this kids power in the legs. What's his weight now? 105 kilos?
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Re: Junior Shot Put '12

Postby Powell » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:07 am

Brzozowski 21.14 NJR yesterday in Białystok at the national junior champs.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '12

Postby leoesharkey » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:04 am

could be five or six putters over 20m in world juniors and a few over 21m :mrgreen:
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