Junior Shot Put '13 [Gill in Sweden video]

[gibson]

many a thanks to GH for posting NZ articles relating to jacko gill.

the issue here is ...

the organization vs the purpose of the organization.

track and field fans know this. the ENEMY of the athletics associations no matter where.... is the top athlete and their coach.

it is an oxymoron to be sure, but this is the case.
from bekele, to lydiard, to prefontaine.
the non talents in the associations, the can't do people, instruct the how to do people.

the good people avoid the organization on the account that they don't like to livearound bullshit people.

the new paradigm is for the good people to speak out, just like jacko has.
get some balls, and speak out.

enough.

[Tuariki]

And from TODAYS TOP HEADLINES the Jacko selection saga is put in perspective when one considers the dilemma of being one of the world's top 10k runners but unfortunate to be a Kenyan.

[b]DAILY NATION - April10, 2012 - The pre-trials for the national 10,000m men’s team for the London Olympic Games due for Tuesday next week at the Nyayo National Stadium will only feature 31 athletes with A Standard qualifying times Athletics Kenya has said.

Even though 46 athletes with A and B Standard qualifying times had been short-listed for the national camp that has been going on in Eldoret, those with A Standard times of 27:45.00 have received the green light to battle it out at the pre-trials.

Consequently, 15 athletes with B Standard times of 28:05.00 have been excluded from the pre-trials where 15 athletes will be picked for the final trials that will be held during Diamond League’s Prefontaine Classic on June 2 in Eugene, United States.[/b]

And so at the end of the day jimbojames is right - if Jacko doesn't go to London it will be because Jacko has made the conscious decision not to go. Although Athletics NZ has somewhat cocked up their selection processes it is equally clear they want to select, and intend to select, Jacko for London - if Jacko relents (backs down).

As I said earlier it is probably best that he just get on with the job of winning at Barcelona, hopefully throwing a WJR and then going out a few days later and blasting 21 with the 7.26.
Having seen him throw a legitimate 20.75m in warming upforhis eventual 20.38m I feel confident 21m is within the realms of reality.

[Grasshopper]

The all-time junior list just doesn't cover some or most of the greatest junior putters ever!

Would you agree that most of the top high school shot putters (12 pound) have not become world class shot putters with the 7kg ball?

I'd be curious to see statistics on what percentage of top (USA) high school shot putters have given up the sport (or relegated it to 2nd priority) after high school in favor of college football. I'd guess the percentage is rather high. My point being that the lack of continued success by American SP'ers after high schools is very likely more a function of culture rather than technique, training, or anything to do with the unique 12lb shot.

[bushop]

The all-time junior list just doesn't cover some or most of the greatest junior putters ever!

Would you agree that most of the top high school shot putters (12 pound) have not become world class shot putters with the 16-pound ball?

My point being that the lack of continued success by American SP'ers after high schools is very likely more a function of culture rather than technique, training, or anything to do with the unique 12lb shot.

To a certain extent the event(s) are so different. The 12-pound ball can be thrown well by smaller, quicker athletes who cannot handle the bigger ball. When one moves to the 16 pound ball you need a certain about of strength to go along with the speed.

[Tuariki]

The all-time junior list just doesn't cover some or most of the greatest junior putters ever!

Would you agree that most of the top high school shot putters (12 pound) have not become world class shot putters with the 16-pound ball?

My point being that the lack of continued success by American SP'ers after high schools is very likely more a function of culture rather than technique, training, or anything to do with the unique 12lb shot.

To a certain extent the event(s) are so different. The 12-pound ball can be thrown well by smaller, quicker athletes who cannot handle the bigger ball. When one moves to the 16 pound ball you need a certain about of strength to go along with the speed.

While your point is no doubt correct I would have to agree that the main reason for top USA high school shot putters not progressing to the top of the senior ranks is because the majority are also football players who aspire to the fame and riches of the NFL which is something beyond what the world of international shot puting can offer.

If it wasn't for the NFL one can only imagine what Michael Carter might have achieved. Not withstanding the amazing achievements of Jacko the bench mark to chase after is still Carter's 81' 3 1/2" high school 12lb record.

[bushop]

The all-time junior list just doesn't cover some or most of the greatest junior putters ever!

Would you agree that most of the top HS SPers have not become world class shot putters with the 16-pound ball?

...the lack of continued success by American SP'ers after HS is likely more a function of culture...

... I would have to agree that the main reason for top USA high school shot putters not progressing... is because the majority are also football players who aspire to... the NFL.

Agreed... and the NBA?

[Tuariki]

Agreed... and the NBA?

Wonder how far Shaq and Wilt Chamberlain could have thrown the shot?

[Per Andersen]

This situation should have been handled better by all parties though

No doubt! This so called higher NZ standard of 20.30 probably just means that Athletics NZ was unaware that the IAAF "A' Standard was 20.50.

Gill should just get over it and attempt to get the A by June. Why did he need to be pre selected?
Who else on the world scene is pre selected? Not Bolt and Blake.

[leoesharkey]

Wilt was a keen shotputter I beleive and followed throwing as a fan..

The History Mum Boy is worth knowing, what would Matson have done with a 6kg in the early 1960's when he was a teenager? he hadn't started lifting and was a speed thrower, he might have thrown it farther than Storl has done almost fifty years later...That's talent!

[leoesharkey]

If throwing well, Jacko and family should reconsider and go to the Olympics.

[bushop]

Who else on the world scene is pre selected? Not Bolt and Blake.

Four New Zealanders were pre-selected. That is what started this row... when Gill was not included in the selection when fout with the Oly "A" Standard were.

[gibson]

This situation should have been handled better by all parties though

No doubt! This so called higher NZ standard of 20.30 probably just means that Athletics NZ was unaware that the IAAF "A' Standard was 20.50.

Gill should just get over it and attempt to get the A by June. Why did he need to be pre selected?
Who else on the world scene is pre selected? Not Bolt and Blake.

on the surface, this is a very good line of reasoning.

except for the fact that we are talking about the new zealand selection process...
and the fact that athletics nz has been jerking gill around at every turn...= phantom fouls, not allowed at the national senior champs, while insinuating that they're somehow part of his success.

realize that you are recommending cowarding. saying f-you to retard organizations and influencing their demise... this opine = it is much better to take a stand than any silly olympic games..... and be subservient to further bull the rest of your carear.

if i were jacko, i'd look to mac wilkins for advice, he was in the same boat and had a similar non-tolerance of knuckle heads...

see below=link the grand immortalization of mac here by the dodgy and incompetent ustaf, again using the athletes success to legitimize themselves, while getting in the way of the athlete all the way along.
http://www.usatf.org/halloffame/TF/showBio.asp?HOFIDs=182

[Powell]

and the fact that athletics nz has been jerking gill around at every turn...= phantom fouls, not allowed at the national senior champs, while insinuating that they're somehow part of his success.

He WAS allowed to compete at the nat'l champs; the federation gave him an exemption. As for phantom fouls, even if they really happened (I haven't seen any videos, so I'm withholding judgment), what does it have to do with Athletics NZ? It's not the federation's chairman who calls fouls at national meets, is it?

[mump boy]

Why should a National Federation have to bow down to the whims of a teenager and his parents ??

He has been treated exactly the same as everyone else in his position yet somehow managed to spin the whole story so it's about how hard done by he is

[Powell]

Why should a National Federation have to bow down to the whims of a teenager and his parents ??

He has been treated exactly the same as everyone else in his position yet somehow managed to spin the whole story so it's about how hard done by he is

Exactly.

The feeling I get from all these stories is that, as huge as Gill's talent is, his ego is about 5 times as big.

[mump boy]

Why should a National Federation have to bow down to the whims of a teenager and his parents ??

He has been treated exactly the same as everyone else in his position yet somehow managed to spin the whole story so it's about how hard done by he is

Exactly.

The feeling I get from all these stories is that, as huge as Gill's talent is, his ego is about 5 times as big.

exactly and on that note i'm going to stop talking about him

[Tuariki]

Why should a National Federation have to bow down to the whims of a teenager and his parents ??

He has been treated exactly the same as everyone else in his position yet somehow managed to spin the whole story so it's about how hard done by he is

Exactly.

The feeling I get from all these stories is that, as huge as Gill's talent is, his ego is about 5 times as big.

exactly and on that note i'm going to stop tailing about him

What ego are you guys talking about? Except your own!!

Let's be clear all of the stories and talking and the rest of the blah blah blah's have been generated by the likes of all of us ancient retired TnF nutters.

Jacko has not made any public criticsms against Athletics NZ. Those criticisms have come from the likes of people like me, media reporters, former prominent NZ athletes etc. This storm in a tea cup (made into a tea pot by those of us who enjoy posting our rants on this TnF bloggers forum) was prompted by Athletics NZ failure to establish clear selection criteria for NZ; and their subsequent failure to convery those selection criteria prior to announcing the first batch of athletes.

Jacko merely stated, through his Dad, that he had decided to forgo the opportunity to compete in London. His Dad explained that his son was disillusioned with Atheltics NZ. And why wouldn't he be.
- Athletics NZ passes a rule that bans him from competing in the NZ senior nationals
- Athletics NZ announces his B standard thrown is not good enough - he must throw 20.30m
- He throws 20.30m
- 3 months later Athletics NZ announces it is not good to be selected in the first batch

I have nothing against the criteria Athletics NZ have finally decided on. The criteria are logical given the IAAF A and B standards that have to be complied with. If Athletics NZ had made their selection criteria clear a year ago we wouldn't have had the problem we now have.

Mump Boy and Powell think Jacko is too big for his boots with an over blown ego. Powell thinks Jacko has no right to be upset over the age restriction for the NZ nationals senior division because Athletics NZ said they would give him an excemption if he applied.

Why should NZ's national record holder for the senior shot, ranked 2nd in all of the Commonwealth and 30th in all of the world have to go cap in hand to ask for an exemption?

This is not an IAAF rule - it is something a bunch of dorks in NZ Athletics Admin dreamed up all by themselves. I can just see the Ethiopian Athletics Admin asking Athletics NZ for permission to plagiarize this brilliant piece of adminstrative jurisprdence so that they can impose similar restrictions on Mohammed Aman.

Athletics NZ officials say they did this at the request of the clubs in order to protect the athletes. Protect them from what? The demi-Gods of Athletics NZ sitting atop Mt Cook (Mt Aorangi for the politically correct) say that "You can compete all year long in the senior shot all through NZ, any where overseas, in the Olympics even; but my God you are at such grave risk to your health,to your future, if after all of that we allow you to compete in the NZ senior nationals. Be thankful young man that we have done this geat thing - just to protect you from your own brilliance".

And then these great visionaries, looking down on the populace from their thrones atop Mt Cook, admiring their legislative handiwork, notice that the great unwashed public think these self appointed demi-Gods are a compete bunch of idiots for passing such legislative wisdom. "Ah but wait", they tell us "There is more - we didn't really mean that this rule should apply to Jacko Gill. If he climbs up Mt Cook to the base of our godly thrones and begs us to grant him an exemption, we will probably in our collective wisdom grant him that exemption. After all we demi-Gods want to be loved by our worshippers and it appears our worshippers are having unloving thoughts about us at the moment."

And of course none of the clubs are sticking up their hands admitting to their roles in demanding this masterpiece of athletics legislation.

And of course, I also wish they had had this rule in place in 1969 when I first competed in the NZ national seniors as a 17 year old. Because I am sure I must have suffered somehow since then because of I was not protected from those dangers. The main danger being that I got my arse kicked by Dave Norris and Bob Thomas (both 26 foot long jumpers back then off grass).

And finally, Jacko says very little to the media directly (and I am not counting social media where he appears to be like all other teeen agers who seem to spill their guts on their every topic imaginable). When he has spoken to the media Jacko has always been polite and gracious.

Is he disullusioned? clearly

Is he right to be disillusioned- in my opinion it is very yes.

is he allowed to decide to forgo the Olympics- yes,of course he is.

And does this mean we who have nothing better to do can write pages and pages of comments - yes.

And what other 16/17 year old who has never been to a world senior champs or Olympics ever generated so much coverage, so much interest.

[mal]

Why should a National Federation have to bow down to the whims of a teenager and his parents ??

He has been treated exactly the same as everyone else in his position yet somehow managed to spin the whole story so it's about how hard done by he is

Exactly.

The feeling I get from all these stories is that, as huge as Gill's talent is, his ego is about 5 times as big.

exactly and on that note i'm going to stop tailing about him

Thank God.

I'd had enough of your tripe.

[Dave]

Quick question, are there other junior men throwing the shot this year or is Gill it?

[leoesharkey]

Good point, I wish Jacko well, and Tom Walsh well who has spoken well about jacko and the athletics people and seems a good bloke. Other Juniors, what about Kristoff in Poland and mr Brahems who has done 70 feet so far?

[Rye Catcher]

No more tripe from Mump.............I like it.

[El Toro]

Tauriki and mal, you cranky old buggers, it's a kinder, gentler world nowadays!

Just think about how good another precocious youngster could have been if only Athletics NZ had been there to protect him achieving too much too soon.......

In 340, when Philip II assembled a large Macedonian army and invaded Thrace, he left his 16 years old son with the power to rule Macedonia as regent in his absence.
The Thracian tribe of Maedi seized the opportunity to rebel, only for Alexander to assemble an army, lead it against the rebels, and with swift action defeat the Maedi, capture their stronghold, and rename it after himself to Alexandropolis. [wanna talk about real ego? ]

Two years later in 338 BC, Philip gave his son a commanding post among the senior generals as the Macedonian army invaded Greece. At the Battle of Chaeronea the Greeks were defeated and Alexander displayed his bravery by destroying the elite Greek force, the Theban Secret Band. Some ancient historians recorded that the Macedonians won the battle thanks to his bravery.

[Rye Catcher]

Pig out on Jacko Gill articles from the original source.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/jacko20gill/s ... w2=&st=gsa

[Tuariki]

Kansas teen DQ’ed for running with tape over earrings; if uncovered would have been warned

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschoo ... 53602.html

On April 10, Miranda Clark was getting ready to line up for the start of the 1,600-meter race at the Ellsworth Invitational. The Russell (Kan.) High student was ready to roll when she noticed that she had earrings in, a result of a recent ear piercing. Knowing that wearing jewelry in a race is forbidden in sporting events by the Kansas State High School Activities Association, Clark knew she couldn't run with her earrings showing, so she did what most athletes do to make jewelry less conspicuous: She covered them up with tape.

As it turns out, that decision was the worst she could have made. As soon as Clark finished the event, a track official, Jim Cross, approached her and asked what was under her tape. When she admitted that the tape was covering an earring, Cross promptly judged that she was exhibiting "unsportsmanlike conduct," a ruling that disqualified the Russell (Kan.) High runner from the entire meet; Clark was scheduled to run the 3,200 meters later in the afternoon.

Is it possible that Jim Cross attended the Athletics NZ Graduate School of rules interpretation?

[Tuariki]

And from "TODAY'S TOP HEADLINES"

Best Men’s Non-Qualifying Marks
SP -20.06 - 65-9¾ - Marco Schmidt (Germany) - WC 11

Although Jim Rorick's stats are for the best 13th place getters it would appear that in every WC and Olympics Jacko's 20.38m would have always gotten him through the qualifying round and into the top 12.

[Daisy]

Why should NZ's national record holder for the senior shot, ranked 2nd in all of the Commonwealth and 30th in all of the world have to go cap in hand to ask for an exemption?

This is not an IAAF rule - it is something a bunch of dorks in NZ Athletics Admin dreamed up all by themselves.

I bet these guys still rue the day when the rugby union players were allowed to earn a pay check.

[26mi235]

And from "TODAY'S TOP HEADLINES"

Best Men’s Non-Qualifying Marks
SP -20.06 - 65-9¾ - Marco Schmidt (Germany) - WC 11

Although Jim Rorick's stats are for the best 13th place getters it would appear that in every WC and Olympics Jacko's 20.38m would have always gotten him through the qualifying round and into the top 12.

Having a PR at that level and throwing it in three attempts in the Q round are two different things.

[Tuariki]

The criteria for the NZ Olympic Selectors (as opposed to Athletics NZ) is that it there is a well founded expectation that an athlete will make the top 16.

s2.5 - The overriding selection criteria determined by the NZOC is that we will select individual athletes who, through World Rankings and credible top level international competition performances, have demonstrated the ability to finish within the top 16 at the 2012 London Olympic Games, with the potential to win an Olympic Diploma (top 8).

Having a PR at that level and throwing it in three attempts in the Q round are two different things.

While I agree with this sentiment the standard is that he demonstrate an ability to finish within the top 16 with the potential to finish in the top 8. Jacko has clearly done this.

[bushop]

Quick question, are there other junior men throwing the shot this year or is Gill it?

Not too much yet. The IAAF has not posted junior lists.

[norunner]

The criteria for the NZ Olympic Selectors (as opposed to Athletics NZ) is that it there is a well founded expectation that an athlete will make the top 16.

s2.5 - The overriding selection criteria determined by the NZOC is that we will select individual athletes who, through World Rankings and credible top level international competition performances, have demonstrated the ability to finish within the top 16 at the 2012 London Olympic Games, with the potential to win an Olympic Diploma (top 8).

So which "credible top level international competitions" did he compete in?

[leoesharkey]

Oh God, what a terrible waffly statement, and it looks like it was written by a non-english speaker who is just starting lessons. how could any federation publish this?

[leoesharkey]

Sigh, that is absolutely terrible, awful, embarrassing. The criteria is...are, I can't even read beyond the first sentence without squirming. Suddenly I smell bullshit.

[highjumpfan]

Nick Vena 19.27 yesterday with the big ball. Go Nick go.
Does anyone know if he intends to try out for world juniors this year?

[gibson]

through brute force of the "pen" i will try and make an effect on athletics nz.
i know that with enough voices it will work. new zealanders need to call and talk to people personally, email them personally, and even pop into their office.

here is the latest:

Newman said he had heard Gill had been fouled at a meeting in Australia a couple of years ago but did not think there was any "conspiracy".

"We have been doing everything in our power to support Jacko - why would we do anything else?
gibson: bullshit, they did not name gill to the team. it is in their power.
athletics nz made gill lobby to participate in the senior champs, not invite him with open arms.
athletics nz did not investigate the phantom foul incidents, did not lend any support.
other interference.

Sure, we could have done a couple of things better over the qualification issue but we have already acknowledged that. If anyone is suggesting, by linking these elements together, that there is a conspiracy, that is absolute twaddle."

yes it is absolute twaddle.
bring in john walker, quax, snell and or dixon to head up athletics nz and bring in willis when he retires.

has athletics nz considered any of these people. no. why have world class when you can have mediocre. why hire champs when you have chumps. lets hire losers instead of winners.

athletics nz has done NOTHING for the sport. fire the lot.

[gh]

Nick Vena 19.27 yesterday with the big ball. Go Nick go.
Does anyone know if he intends to try out for world juniors this year?

He turns 20 tomorrow.