Junior Shot Put '13 [Bukowiecki 22.24 WYBi]


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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby derby_county » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:03 pm

bushop wrote:
derby_county wrote:Jacko won't compete again until December. 12lb not being considered.

When is the traditional New Zealand track & field season?


October to March (but October is a lot quieter than it used to be).
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby TeWaio » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:34 am

derby_county wrote:Jacko won't compete again until December. 12lb not being considered.


All that training for so few competitions, I'd go insane if I were him! Seems to work though.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby derby_county » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:15 pm

TeWaio wrote:
derby_county wrote:Jacko won't compete again until December. 12lb not being considered.


All that training for so few competitions, I'd go insane if I were him! Seems to work though.


He seems to enjoy the training...and working on his chilli collection.

He's actually the opposite of our other top shot putter! Tom Walsh competed on average every second week for the first half of the year...maybe if he breaks Jacko's NZ record Jacko might be tempted out earlier! :)
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby TeWaio » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:30 am

Another change of coach for Jacko, Les Mills for Courtney Ireland, who had moved to Singapore and will remain as a video consultant.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11128226
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby mal » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:36 am

gm wrote:
Per Andersen wrote:
Tuariki wrote:I agree, I don't see why Gill at this point should be too concerned with the US high school record, no matter how impressive that record might be.


And that's exactly how I feel when I read about Gill's exploits with the 5kg and 6kg shots... yawn. They don't mean anything to me.


So you don't appreciate his talent and results? Why are you on this site?

As for the US high school record, Jacko Gill doesn't live in the US, doesn't go to school here. So no matter what he throws, the record won't change.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Marlow » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:50 am

mal wrote:As for the US high school record, Jacko Gill doesn't live in the US, doesn't go to school here. So no matter what he throws, the record won't change.

Not really true. Carter is a demi-god because of his 81'
If Jacko can throw the 12#er farther at the same age, he also enters the pantheon of GOATs. Amis like myself (and most others here, I imagine), will bestow upon him the accolades he probably already deserves, but the 5 and 6kg balls means nothing to us, so until he throws the 12 and 16 a 'HS'/Jr record, he's just a 'phenom'.
Right now, he in not the equal of Carter or Albritton (21.05 with 16, but lesser known because it was indoors, but equally semi-divine).
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:01 pm

Marlow wrote:... but the 5kg and 6kg balls means nothing to us

Who is "us"?
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:29 pm

If he does not throw 81+ as a junior he will never be clearly the best junior thrower of all time. That requires him to throw the same implement; I take is disinclination to do so to be a measure of the degree to which he is not quite there. He is such a publicity hound that if he could do it he would...
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby puddys12 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:44 pm

Since you have a problem calling the 12lb ball . Lets just call it the 5.44kg ball and lets see if he can throw it 81 plus . I agree he is so much a publicity hound , videos on you tube working out and his throws I cant believe he would not want to rub it in the US face that see I can throw the 5.44kg ball father than Carter . Gill is all about records and yes it is U S record but I have a hard time believing he has not secretly thrown it to see if he could throw 81 plus ..
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:51 am

bushop wrote:
Marlow wrote:... but the 5kg and 6kg balls means nothing to us

Who is "us"?

The VAST majority of T&FN's readership.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby norunner » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:06 am

26mi235 wrote:If he does not throw 81+ as a junior he will never be clearly the best junior thrower of all time. That requires him to throw the same implement; I take is disinclination to do so to be a measure of the degree to which he is not quite there. He is such a publicity hound that if he could do it he would...
You are making a lot of assumptions. Does he want to be the best of all time? Is there such a thing? Even if he used american implements he would still not be on equal ground because Carter/Albritton used them all the time, which Gill doesn't. Did Carter throw 81 all the time? "Discinclination" implies he does not want to use american implements, but maybe he simply doesn't give a s*it ?
It's presumptuous to expect the rest of the world to care about american records.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:09 am

norunner wrote:It's presumptuous to expect the rest of the world to care about american records.

As pointed out above, Jacko sure seems to care a lot about records and his image. Does he want to be the GOAT? You can count on it. This is step 1.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby norunner » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:35 am

Marlow wrote:
norunner wrote:It's presumptuous to expect the rest of the world to care about american records.

As pointed out above, Jacko sure seems to care a lot about records and his image. Does he want to be the GOAT? You can count on it. This is step 1.
Yeah, world records, not american ones. Did he ever once mention Carter/Albritton? All i ever saw him mention was Storl's JWR. And by your logic to be GOAT you have to be great as a junior which i guess disqualifies a lot of greats. Did Michael Johnson even run 400m as a junior? If Gill breaks the WR, wins olympic gold medals, WCs etc, nobody (except for a few americans) will care at all about some american junior records that he dared to ignore.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:42 am

Marlow wrote:
norunner wrote:It's presumptuous to expect the rest of the world to care about american records.
As pointed out above, Jacko sure seems to care a lot about records and his image. Does he want to be the GOAT? You can count on it. This is step 1.

I'm not saying Carter's not the GOAT, but I would think honors won (not many opportunities for Carter here) and 2-3 year window of successes would be a step ahead of Carter's one-off throw when it comes to naming a GOAT. If I remember correctly, Carter's 2nd best throw was a touch over 77'.

I also think that throw comparable to 81' with a 5kg or 6kg ball would hold water, IMO Gill just hasn't made one yet.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:19 am

norunner wrote: by your logic to be GOAT you have to be great as a junior

No, I meant the Junior GOAT, but that would be a positive step towards THE GOAT. The number of greats who dominated both the Jr and Sr scene is very, very small, and deserves special mention. If Jacko breaks the 5/6 kg records and also the 12/16 records he'll be in very rarefied air, air that I think he very much wants to breathe (unsuccessful metaphor alert!).
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby gh » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:45 am

Gill is without question the greatest Youth putter ever, but his Junior credentials are actually a bit on the thin side.

In his 2 years (with 2-odd months to go) in that age group he has thrown in exactly 9 meets. Tough to stake a claim to GOAT with that little exposure.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:29 am

gh wrote:In his 2 years (with 2-odd months to go) in that age group

Wow, he's been so young for so long, I didn't realize he only has 2 months left as a Junior! Tick - tock.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby user4 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:51 am

I might be crazy but I think Gill would be even more fantastic in the disc..
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby AS » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:43 pm

user4 wrote:I might be crazy but I think Gill would be even more fantastic in the disc..


Unless he has unusually long arms, I would suggest not. He's about 2 inches too short (he's 6'3" I believe). Wingspan is so much more important here.

Storl I could imagine as a DTer though...however, he's never shown a strong acumen for the event either.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby mal » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:14 am

The only people who ever knew Carter was a field guy are here on this forum.
Everyone else knows him as NFL Footballer.

No one really cares about junior performances. Except the numbers freaks.

Even though he medaled at the Olympics, he still stepped away from the sport before he showed his final capabilities.

And I know its important to you all in some measure, but its like the thread on wind, altitude and basic times.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby user4 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:51 am

mal wrote:The only people who ever knew Carter was a field guy are here on this forum.
Everyone else knows him as NFL Footballer.

No one really cares about junior performances. Except the numbers freaks.

Even though he medaled at the Olympics, he still stepped away from the sport before he showed his final capabilities.

And I know its important to you all in some measure, but its like the thread on wind, altitude and basic times.


hey mal adjusted wind and altitude and basic times along with a watch and yard stick are the heart and lungs of measuring in this sport!
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby wamego relays champ » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:24 am

norunner wrote:
Marlow wrote:
norunner wrote:It's presumptuous to expect the rest of the world to care about american records.

As pointed out above, Jacko sure seems to care a lot about records and his image. Does he want to be the GOAT? You can count on it. This is step 1.
Yeah, world records, not american ones. Did he ever once mention Carter/Albritton? All i ever saw him mention was Storl's JWR.


I have to agree that while Jacko does indeed care about braking records at every level, just because our minds are blown by Carter's 81-3 1/2 does not make it a "must have" mark for Gill.

For him Storl's mark was step 1, and it's pretty logical if his next goal is the WJR with the 16 lb ball. One cannot disipute a claim to the greatest junior ever if he tops Albritton (21.05|69-¾) and Carter (20.65|67-9) before 1/1/14.
.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby leoesharkey » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:25 am

"Storl I could imagine as a DTer though...however, he's never shown a strong acumen for the event either."

I saw him throw almost 60m with the 2kg as a junior because he got the times of the shot wrong and was hanging around, little technique, great athleticism ! 59.80m 0r 59.90m? :D
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby wamego relays champ » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:29 am

Marlow wrote:
gh wrote:In his 2 years (with 2-odd months to go) in that age group

Wow, he's been so young for so long, I didn't realize he only has 2 months left as a Junior! Tick - tock.


The line drawn by IAAF rules on who qualifies as a Junior works against someone like Gill who is born in late December. Had he been born 12 days later he would be eligible for all of calendar 2014.

.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby mal » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:09 am

user4 wrote:
mal wrote:The only people who ever knew Carter was a field guy are here on this forum.
Everyone else knows him as NFL Footballer.

No one really cares about junior performances. Except the numbers freaks.

Even though he medaled at the Olympics, he still stepped away from the sport before he showed his final capabilities.

And I know its important to you all in some measure, but its like the thread on wind, altitude and basic times.


hey mal adjusted wind and altitude and basic times along with a watch and yard stick are the heart and lungs of measuring in this sport!


More important on the day and the race though, than the creation of the 'potentials' had they been performed under water, in space, on the moon, or under the eye of Adolf.

Its the adjusted part I find amusing. Times are what they are, tracks what they were, and circumstances often mysterious.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby bushop » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:36 am

mal wrote:
user4 wrote:
mal wrote:The only people who ever knew Carter was a field guy are here on this forum. No one really cares about junior performances. Except the numbers freaks. And I know its important to you all in some measure, but its like the thread on wind, altitude and basic times.
hey mal adjusted wind and altitude and basic times along with a watch and yard stick are the heart and lungs of measuring in this sport!
... and circumstances often mysterious.

As are the reasons you're posting on this thread.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:50 pm

user4 wrote:
mal wrote:The only people who ever knew Carter was a field guy are here on this forum.
Everyone else knows him as NFL Footballer.

No one really cares about junior performances. Except the numbers freaks.

Even though he medaled at the Olympics, he still stepped away from the sport before he showed his final capabilities.

And I know its important to you all in some measure, but its like the thread on wind, altitude and basic times.


hey mal adjusted wind and altitude and basic times along with a watch and yard stick are the heart and lungs of measuring in this sport!


mal, your last sentence does nothing to establish much credibility. Your position is essentially the unsupportable contention that 2.0 mps wind gives no advantage and 2.01 is completely unreasonable. Physics provides us with (essentially) continuous variables that can often be readily modeled.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby mal » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:05 pm

26mi235 wrote:
user4 wrote:
mal wrote:The only people who ever knew Carter was a field guy are here on this forum.
Everyone else knows him as NFL Footballer.

No one really cares about junior performances. Except the numbers freaks.

Even though he medaled at the Olympics, he still stepped away from the sport before he showed his final capabilities.

And I know its important to you all in some measure, but its like the thread on wind, altitude and basic times.


hey mal adjusted wind and altitude and basic times along with a watch and yard stick are the heart and lungs of measuring in this sport!


mal, your last sentence does nothing to establish much credibility. Your position is essentially the unsupportable contention that 2.0 mps wind gives no advantage and 2.01 is completely unreasonable. Physics provides us with (essentially) continuous variables that can often be readily modeled.


I needed to be more clear.

Of course wind and altitude are important. My comment was around the endless arguments that someone in 1936 was a better athlete than another in 1976, because of an adjustment to altitude ,track surfaces, etc. All important of course, but the discussion is meaningless in my opinion.

My contention is that conditions are what they are. At the end of life your times and distance rank you in the book. The verbal gymnastics to explain the time would have been faster if... is nonsense in my opinion.

Of course wind is important. And surfaces. I didn't explain myself well enough. My apologies.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13 [WJR by Gill 75' 5½" 23m]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:40 pm

mal wrote:Of course wind and altitude are important. My comment was around the endless arguments that someone in 1936 was a better athlete than another in 1976, because of an adjustment to altitude, track surfaces, etc. All important of course, but the discussion is meaningless in my opinion.

We agree a lot here.

My contention is that conditions are what they are. At the end of life your times and distance rank you in the book. The verbal gymnastics to explain the time would have been faster if... is nonsense in my opinion.


Less so here, but not as much as the prior posts, for sure.
Of course wind is important. And surfaces. I didn't explain myself well enough. My apologies.

and again agree here.
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Re: Junior Male Shot Putters '13

Postby bushop » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:04 pm

Jacko Gill via Facebook wrote:Jacko Gill Oct 30
New close grip Bench Press P.B of 221kg! Pretty happy after being far from full health these last couple of months
221kg equals 487 lbs
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Re: Junior Male Shot Putters '13

Postby bushop » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:25 pm

rumor:
Anon7972 via MacThrows message board wrote:Nov 14
apparently jacko gill threw 21.22m [69' 7"] today in training with the 16lb
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13

Postby leoesharkey » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:30 am

Let's wait and see competition marks, but yes with 23.00 on the 6kg and a 221kg NG BP sure it's possible, but let's see it in a meet before commenting. Which I do hope to see him do soon. :)
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13

Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:17 am

Talk about soul-crushing expectations, if he doesn't throw 70' this year (2014), will he be considered a bust? :shock:
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13

Postby bushop » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:00 am

If Gill did go 21.22m in training I'd think anything 20m-high equals success.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13

Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:54 am

bushop wrote:If Gill did go 21.22m in training I'd think anything 20m-high equals success.

How ya figger? 21.22 now only ramps up the 22m expectations!
This is where the shoulda/coulda/wouldas tell us how easy 22m would be for him. (Just look at the Mary Cain wacko threads and you'll see what I mean.) :roll:
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13

Postby bushop » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:16 pm

Marlow wrote:
bushop wrote:If Gill did go 21.22m in training I'd think anything 20m-high equals success.
How ya figger? 21.22 now only ramps up the 22m expectations! This is where the shoulda/coulda/wouldas tell us how easy 22m would be for him. (Just look at the Mary Cain wacko threads and you'll see what I mean.) :roll:

: ) If Gill was a glider I'd think a bit different.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13

Postby norunner » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:16 pm

In an interview earlier this year David Storl mentioned that he threw over 22m regularly in training, he then added that he never actually managed to STAY in the ring for any of those. So i really wouldn't put too much weight on training throws.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13

Postby Sasuke » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:30 am

norunner wrote:In an interview earlier this year David Storl mentioned that he threw over 22m regularly in training, he then added that he never actually managed to STAY in the ring for any of those. So i really wouldn't put too much weight on training throws.


Indeed; in Moscow he had some huge throws (22+) for sure, but he fouled all the longest one . From Gill's videos I often noticed he is used to fouling very often so... the potential is there for sure, but we had better not have too many expectations.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13

Postby bushop » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:25 am

Sasuke wrote:
norunner wrote:In an interview earlier this year David Storl mentioned that he threw over 22m regularly in training, he then added that he never actually managed to STAY in the ring for any of those. So i really wouldn't put too much weight on training throws.
Indeed; in Moscow he had some huge throws (22+) for sure, but he fouled all the longest one . From Gill's videos I often noticed he is used to fouling very often so... the potential is there for sure, but we had better not have too many expectations.

Some of Gill's recent training videos show him staying in. Seems like he's made it a priority to stay in the ring in training.
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Re: Junior Shot Put '13

Postby Sasuke » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:41 am

bushop wrote:
Sasuke wrote:
norunner wrote:In an interview earlier this year David Storl mentioned that he threw over 22m regularly in training, he then added that he never actually managed to STAY in the ring for any of those. So i really wouldn't put too much weight on training throws.
Indeed; in Moscow he had some huge throws (22+) for sure, but he fouled all the longest one . From Gill's videos I often noticed he is used to fouling very often so... the potential is there for sure, but we had better not have too many expectations.

Some of Gill's recent training videos show him staying in. Seems like he's made it a priority to stay in the ring in training.


Very good news. Jacko is a huge talent, and I am looking forward to seeing him throwing 21+.
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